Could it be used for NS3 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4</a> I hope so ^^
<!--quoteo(post=1866133:date=Aug 3 2011, 10:05 PM:name=eXa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eXa @ Aug 3 2011, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could it be used for NS3 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4</a> I hope so ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> not good for games, its more a engine for other stuff then games. Anyway, first ns2 has been done and that take already a bit. I hope ns3 will be done with unreal engine 4.
<!--quoteo(post=1866138:date=Aug 3 2011, 09:31 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Aug 3 2011, 09:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope ns3 will be done with unreal engine 4.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Unreal Engine 4 currently only exists on paper and the brain of Mark Rein. Many of the features that originally should form the UE4 have already been developed for the UDK, I wouldn't expect an Unreal Engine 4 until 2015 or later. It most probably will be developed for the console generations after the PS4 and XB720. Practically nothing about the engine is known, it seems weird to make any assumptions and statements like yours.
Regarding the video of OP… yeah well that is utter bogus. They need money for further development so they put out a video like this, that's all. There are currently no algorithms that allow large scale manipulation of Voxels that are needed for any kind of animation within the range of todays (or tomorrows) hardware capabilities. The video is the best prove of that, there are no moving things whatsoever. You can scale and pan objects but you can't bend them or do anything else. Voxels were nice in 1999 - see Outcast, and they are useful for previews of static objects like the terrain in CryEngine 2/3 (only in the editor, not the game) and they are brilliant if you want inanimate high detail objects for a cat-scan or CRT. But for games they would only be good as a very small part in a hybrid engine - and that is nothing new as you can see <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHTNj_hSl0" target="_blank">here</a>.
Have a look at <a href="http://notch.tumblr.com/" target="_blank">http://notch.tumblr.com/</a>, Notch (creator of Minecraft) does a great job explaining why this technology (voxels) is nothing new, and why specifically the "Unlimited Detail" technology is a scam.
<!--quoteo(post=1866145:date=Aug 3 2011, 09:05 PM:name=cron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cron @ Aug 3 2011, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are currently no algorithms that allow large scale manipulation of Voxels that are needed for any kind of animation within the range of todays (or tomorrows) hardware capabilities<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1866147:date=Aug 3 2011, 05:09 PM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (doeseph @ Aug 3 2011, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have a look at <a href="http://notch.tumblr.com/" target="_blank">http://notch.tumblr.com/</a>, Notch (creator of Minecraft) does a great job explaining why this technology (voxels) is nothing new, and why specifically the "Unlimited Detail" technology is a scam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? A recomendation to read something related to Minecraft? Lol...
@zex: Interesting, it seems my knowledge is obsolete. It still looks far from what is possibly with polygons but it's a lot more than nothing. I know that Carmack was considering a voxel based engine as the next id tech and was "looking into it" but there haven't been any breakthroughs announced as far as I know. This probably lead me to saying that there currently is no possibility, thanks again for enlightening me :)
Tech4 won't be voxel based. I'm probably too stoned to explain this coherently, but what Carmack was talking about (SVOs) is basically a way of indexing 3d geometry data so efficiently that models can be streamed seamlessly from the hard drive rather than loaded entirely into RAM. In other words with SVOs, RAM only needs to load the parts of the model which are seen by the player at any given time, whereas with current engines the entire model is loaded into RAM. Ultimate Detail or whatever is a demo of this technique. Tech4 uses the same concept for textures (a really interesting read if you google it), so it is a natural progression in Tech5.
The implementation may be limited in Tech5, for example (just a guess) characters might still be traditional polygons, whereas terrain would use SVO rendering.
<!--quoteo(post=1866140:date=Aug 3 2011, 09:47 PM:name=eXa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eXa @ Aug 3 2011, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well they say that the island run at 20 something fps on the testing computer, the idea is to be able to run amazing looking games on actual computers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I built a new phone which can run crysis, it also gets free internet by sending bits to all the wifi recievers in ten miles. This is totally legit.
Invest a million dollars in my company please.
<!--quoteo(post=1866156:date=Aug 3 2011, 10:40 PM:name=cron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cron @ Aug 3 2011, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@zex: Interesting, it seems my knowledge is obsolete. It still looks far from what is possibly with polygons but it's a lot more than nothing. I know that Carmack was considering a voxel based engine as the next id tech and was "looking into it" but there haven't been any breakthroughs announced as far as I know. This probably lead me to saying that there currently is no possibility, thanks again for enlightening me :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he said it was like the next next engine, like, tech6 or something. It's a cool technology, but we don't really have the ability to make it commerically available for home use yet.
We will eventually though, so maybe when tech6 comes out.
<!--quoteo(post=1866164:date=Aug 3 2011, 05:20 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Aug 3 2011, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866164"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tech4 won't be voxel based. I'm probably too stoned to explain this coherently, but what Carmack was talking about (SVOs) is basically a way of indexing 3d geometry data so efficiently that models can be streamed seamlessly from the hard drive rather than loaded entirely into RAM. In other words with SVOs, RAM only needs to load the parts of the model which are seen by the player at any given time, whereas with current engines the entire model is loaded into RAM. Ultimate Detail or whatever is a demo of this technique. Tech4 uses the same concept for textures (a really interesting read if you google it), so it is a natural progression in Tech5.
The implementation may be limited in Tech5, for example (just a guess) characters might still be traditional polygons, whereas terrain would use SVO rendering.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, Notch is a amateur developer that got very lucky. Don't listen to his gibberish lol. Many over at the MC community heavily critiqued that post on his blog, this may be a scam but it's not voxel based.
<!--quoteo(post=1866232:date=Aug 4 2011, 04:54 AM:name=MaGicBush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaGicBush @ Aug 4 2011, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aye, Notch is a amateur developer that got very lucky. Don't listen to his gibberish lol. Many over at the MC community heavily critiqued that post on his blog, this may be a scam but it's not voxel based.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I recall he was employed as a programmer before he made minecraft.
Programmers are programmers, some are better than others but employed ones tend to be far from amateur.
I honestly don't get why this thing is getting so much attention, voxels aren't new, this sort of video isn't new, it's been around for ages, they're just selling snake oil, like hundreds of other dumb companies have done before.
<!--quoteo(post=1866145:date=Aug 3 2011, 11:05 PM:name=cron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cron @ Aug 3 2011, 11:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Unreal Engine 4 currently only exists on paper and the brain of Mark Rein.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you are wrong... <a href="http://www.golem.de/0506/38566.html" target="_blank">http://www.golem.de/0506/38566.html</a> Quote: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nach der Präsentation der Unreal Engine 3 gab Rein auf Nachfrage durch einen Journalisten zu, dass man bereits die vierte Version der 3D-Spieleengine entwickle. Epic-Chef und 3D-Experte Tim Sweeney arbeiten bereits seit drei Jahren an der Unreal Engine 4, war vom Epic-Marketingexperten zu erfahren.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which means the Epic-Chef Tim Sweeney work since 3 years on the Unreal Engine 4... or in english wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine#Unreal_Engine_4" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine#Unreal_Engine_4</a> "Mark Rein, the vice-president of Epic Games, revealed on August 18, 2005 that Unreal Engine 4 had been in development since 2003" Anyway the unreal engine 3 still looks amazing <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wdwHrCT5jr0#t=7s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...dwHrCT5jr0#t=7s</a> So if NS3 comes (and i hope it comes) like 2020 or later, i hope it will use unreal engine 4 ^^ We can not wait another 5-12 years of UWE's new engine :P
@notch comment about the engine, of course he said that, the new engine would be a minecraft killer, not for other games, but if you compare minecraft to other games...minecraft is a very simple and primitive game (animations, models and on)
How would the engine be a minecraft killer? Minecraft's whole paradigm is polygons. It requires predictability and uniformity to work as a game. Globs of detailed dirt would only complicate it and make predictable building impossible.
I think the tech definitely has a long way to go, but outright calling it a scam is a bit much unless Notch knows something we don't. Personally I'm sceptical as it does seem too good to be true, but it's an interesting enough premise that I'll give them he benefit of the doubt for now. With regards to the storage isn't Notch talking about uncompressed data - from what I understand this engine's meant to be using a custom compression algorithm, which if it works would nullify one of Notch's main complaints.
<!--quoteo(post=1866267:date=Aug 4 2011, 09:45 AM:name=Rhodri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rhodri @ Aug 4 2011, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the tech definitely has a long way to go, but outright calling it a scam is a bit much unless Notch knows something we don't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Frankly they asked for it 323047e10 billion, 23736 trillions, 2726 thousand, 2 hundreds five point 38373766633 times.
<!--quoteo(post=1866250:date=Aug 4 2011, 04:51 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Aug 4 2011, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So if NS3 comes (and i hope it comes) like 2020 or later, i hope it will use unreal engine 4 ^^ We can not wait another 5-12 years of UWE's new engine :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I certainly hope that if in the distant, distant future we ever do see a Natural Selection 3 (And which trilogy has ever done justice to the sequel?) it is on Spark, or Spark 2, or some other such original creation of Max and the boys.
I certainly wouldn't feel inspired to follow Natural Selection 2 if it was just being shoehorned into a vanilla engine!
Now I wonder, what will the creative minds of UWE turn to when NS2 is shipped, and active patches are rolling... A new universe perhaps? A completely new idea for a game? Now there's an exciting thought!
<!--quoteo(post=1866288:date=Aug 4 2011, 12:11 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Aug 4 2011, 12:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I certainly wouldn't feel inspired to follow Natural Selection 2 if it was just being shoehorned into a vanilla engine!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why?
I mean spark does do a couple of unique things, Unreal 3 doesn't support that much dynamic lighting as far as I know, but you could build largely the same game on it I would imagine, and you'd probably have fewer bugs and stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1866250:date=Aug 4 2011, 07:51 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Aug 4 2011, 07:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess you are wrong...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are quoting from an article from 2005 that does not have any official statements regarding the UE4. Frankly, Wikipedia directs to the same statement. That someone was working on something for three years does not mean it will be released anytime soon (as you can tell since that was six years ago) or that this work will be continued and finished. Neither has been said in what phase of development they are, nor has any material been shown since the supposedly beginning of the work eight years ago; in this industry that is usually a bad sign. Ever since that statement, which was probably not meant to slip his tongue anyway, there has been no news regarding the Unreal Engine four. Everything suggests, that they just stopped working on it and instead focused all their energy on the development of the UDK once they realized what a brilliant seller that is.
But none of this changes anything about the essential part of my message: Since nothing about the UE4 is known, it seems utterly weird to say something like 'I want $game to use that engine'.
Max has done some great work with the Spark engine and NS2 currently looks completely distinct and recognizable – which is a big statement when you look at all the Unreal Engine 3-games that look the same nowadays.
Comments
This video has been on the frontpage every computer related site today, and there is a thread in the offtopic already
I hope so ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not good for games, its more a engine for other stuff then games.
Anyway, first ns2 has been done and that take already a bit.
I hope ns3 will be done with unreal engine 4.
The Unreal Engine 4 currently only exists on paper and the brain of Mark Rein. Many of the features that originally should form the UE4 have already been developed for the UDK, I wouldn't expect an Unreal Engine 4 until 2015 or later. It most probably will be developed for the console generations after the PS4 and XB720.
Practically nothing about the engine is known, it seems weird to make any assumptions and statements like yours.
Regarding the video of OP… yeah well that is utter bogus. They need money for further development so they put out a video like this, that's all. There are currently no algorithms that allow large scale manipulation of Voxels that are needed for any kind of animation within the range of todays (or tomorrows) hardware capabilities. The video is the best prove of that, there are no moving things whatsoever. You can scale and pan objects but you can't bend them or do anything else. Voxels were nice in 1999 - see Outcast, and they are useful for previews of static objects like the terrain in CryEngine 2/3 (only in the editor, not the game) and they are brilliant if you want inanimate high detail objects for a cat-scan or CRT. But for games they would only be good as a very small part in a hybrid engine - and that is nothing new as you can see <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHTNj_hSl0" target="_blank">here</a>.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tl6PE_n6zTk"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tl6PE_n6zTk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Really? A recomendation to read something related to Minecraft? Lol...
The implementation may be limited in Tech5, for example (just a guess) characters might still be traditional polygons, whereas terrain would use SVO rendering.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2qkne-EOG8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2qkne-EOG8</a>
I built a new phone which can run crysis, it also gets free internet by sending bits to all the wifi recievers in ten miles. This is totally legit.
Invest a million dollars in my company please.
<!--quoteo(post=1866156:date=Aug 3 2011, 10:40 PM:name=cron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cron @ Aug 3 2011, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@zex: Interesting, it seems my knowledge is obsolete. It still looks far from what is possibly with polygons but it's a lot more than nothing. I know that Carmack was considering a voxel based engine as the next id tech and was "looking into it" but there haven't been any breakthroughs announced as far as I know. This probably lead me to saying that there currently is no possibility, thanks again for enlightening me :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he said it was like the next next engine, like, tech6 or something. It's a cool technology, but we don't really have the ability to make it commerically available for home use yet.
We will eventually though, so maybe when tech6 comes out.
The implementation may be limited in Tech5, for example (just a guess) characters might still be traditional polygons, whereas terrain would use SVO rendering.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, Notch is a amateur developer that got very lucky. Don't listen to his gibberish lol. Many over at the MC community heavily critiqued that post on his blog, this may be a scam but it's not voxel based.
As I recall he was employed as a programmer before he made minecraft.
Programmers are programmers, some are better than others but employed ones tend to be far from amateur.
I honestly don't get why this thing is getting so much attention, voxels aren't new, this sort of video isn't new, it's been around for ages, they're just selling snake oil, like hundreds of other dumb companies have done before.
I guess you are wrong...
<a href="http://www.golem.de/0506/38566.html" target="_blank">http://www.golem.de/0506/38566.html</a>
Quote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nach der Präsentation der Unreal Engine 3 gab Rein auf Nachfrage durch einen Journalisten zu, dass man bereits die vierte Version der 3D-Spieleengine entwickle. Epic-Chef und 3D-Experte Tim Sweeney arbeiten bereits seit drei Jahren an der Unreal Engine 4, war vom Epic-Marketingexperten zu erfahren.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which means the Epic-Chef Tim Sweeney work since 3 years on the Unreal Engine 4...
or in english wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine#Unreal_Engine_4" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine#Unreal_Engine_4</a>
"Mark Rein, the vice-president of Epic Games, revealed on August 18, 2005 that Unreal Engine 4 had been in development since 2003"
Anyway the unreal engine 3 still looks amazing
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wdwHrCT5jr0#t=7s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...dwHrCT5jr0#t=7s</a>
So if NS3 comes (and i hope it comes) like 2020 or later, i hope it will use unreal engine 4 ^^
We can not wait another 5-12 years of UWE's new engine :P
@notch comment about the engine, of course he said that, the new engine would be a minecraft killer, not for other games, but if you compare minecraft to other games...minecraft is a very simple and primitive game (animations, models and on)
>_>
Frankly they asked for it 323047e10 billion, 23736 trillions, 2726 thousand, 2 hundreds five point 38373766633 times.
We can not wait another 5-12 years of UWE's new engine :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I certainly hope that if in the distant, distant future we ever do see a Natural Selection 3 (And which trilogy has ever done justice to the sequel?) it is on Spark, or Spark 2, or some other such original creation of Max and the boys.
I certainly wouldn't feel inspired to follow Natural Selection 2 if it was just being shoehorned into a vanilla engine!
Now I wonder, what will the creative minds of UWE turn to when NS2 is shipped, and active patches are rolling... A new universe perhaps? A completely new idea for a game? Now there's an exciting thought!
Why?
I mean spark does do a couple of unique things, Unreal 3 doesn't support that much dynamic lighting as far as I know, but you could build largely the same game on it I would imagine, and you'd probably have fewer bugs and stuff.
Surely it'd still be just as fun on any engine.
You are quoting from an article from 2005 that does not have any official statements regarding the UE4. Frankly, Wikipedia directs to the same statement. That someone was working on something for three years does not mean it will be released anytime soon (as you can tell since that was six years ago) or that this work will be continued and finished.
Neither has been said in what phase of development they are, nor has any material been shown since the supposedly beginning of the work eight years ago; in this industry that is usually a bad sign.
Ever since that statement, which was probably not meant to slip his tongue anyway, there has been no news regarding the Unreal Engine four. Everything suggests, that they just stopped working on it and instead focused all their energy on the development of the UDK once they realized what a brilliant seller that is.
But none of this changes anything about the essential part of my message: Since nothing about the UE4 is known, it seems utterly weird to say something like 'I want $game to use that engine'.
Max has done some great work with the Spark engine and NS2 currently looks completely distinct and recognizable – which is a big statement when you look at all the Unreal Engine 3-games that look the same nowadays.
cause after spark comes fire, and then "smoke engine"
yes yes im high