Because it doesn't make sense for it to affect armour, also as alien upgrades don't help it, the damage stays consistent throughout the game, as in the late game Lerks were completely useless
<!--quoteo(post=1862833:date=Jul 23 2011, 02:57 PM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Jul 23 2011, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really get what the reason for making spore gas only affect health was for.
It was fine before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lerk gas is harmful to you because you breath it in. The amount of armor your wearing on your body wouldn't do anything to effect that.
It's a little bit overpowered, but it's mostly because of personal resources. Without any need for gorges/structures the entire team is free to go Lerk.
Yep, the new lerk gas makes fades and skulks unnecessary now. As an Alien team, we can now just lerk spore spam and gorge bile bomb our way to victory! :)
Well I was speaking gameplay-wise, it was fine before. It made it so medpack spam wouldn't restore the armor marines lost, and if marines wanted to avoid getting 2-bite killed by skulks, they would stick together and repair each other's armor using E. If this is the direction the devs want spore gas to go i can respect that, i was just curious why the decision was made, the system didn't seem broken.
If you want to argue realistically then thinking back i recall the NS lore was that spore gas erodes armor because it senses the flesh underneath it and attempts to eat its way through. It didn't just have to be inhaled in order for it to damage, it attacked non-kharaa flesh any chance it got, including human skin. While having spores attacking your flesh by itself is bad and inhaling it made it worse, which is why marines now cough in spore clouds, it still ate at the armor marines wore. I'm not sure i got it perfect but that was the reasoning why it eroded armor in NS1 as i recall. Again, if this is what the dev's think is right then i guess we can always change NS lore to fit.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Lerk gas has become a bit too powerful. It does 14 dps. pre-181, it took 100 + 30*2 =160/14 = 11.5 seconds to kill a lvl 0 marine in a cloud, upto 20 seconds for a lvl 3 marine. It now kills a marine in 7.5 seconds, ignoring the armor. So, rougly a 50% damage bonus vs unupgrade marine, reaching 200% vs late game marines.
Another annoying thing is that the cloud you see is just a visual effect - the damage is done from the moment the lerk shoots, so once you see the cloud, you have already taken 20+ health damage before you can react.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
if its too annoying for you (for me it is) play with the balance mod. im open and willing to adjust any other aspects of the game aswell if they make sense and include them
<!--quoteo(post=1862848:date=Jul 23 2011, 05:52 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Jul 23 2011, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862848"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if its too annoying for you (for me it is) play with the balance mod. im open and willing to adjust any other aspects of the game aswell if they make sense and include them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless I am wrong that requires the server to run the mod, and there is few players as is.. only 3 servers to choose from at most times of day(only one or 2 a while after release :P).
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
thats the downside of modding ns2 currently. but its easy to install a mod and they are less than 1 MB of additional download, without touching the original game files.
<!--quoteo(post=1862867:date=Jul 23 2011, 07:00 PM:name=Gorge_Lucas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gorge_Lucas @ Jul 23 2011, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862867"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No disrespect to the devs but I'm gonna say this.
The Lerk Spore Gas damage has been absolute disaster in this build. I played 8 games last night as Marine and marines won 1 game.
Lerk Gas was just carving up marines. The only way we could fight back was with Flamethrowers and even then that only delayed a slow demise.
I 'get' what the devs were doing with the gas ignoring armor but for goodness sake, nerf the damage a bit!?
This problem makes the game not very fun for marines and too easy and unchallenging for aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said in the 181 response post IMHO, instead of lowering HP damage of the spores the adrenaline use could be increased almost 5x(so you can only use it maybe 2-3 times before having to regenerate adrenaline) which would significantly lower the spam and destruction of current use. This would stop marines in their tracks, thus blocking off area's(which is the spores point) for a few seconds because of the damage caused. Whereas other-wise as in old versions people would just sprint through it and nail the lerk.
Im still hoping for a volumetric flamethrower, and spore being changed to shoot out from the lerk's facetubes in a flamethrower manner. That would make sense with the high damage it outputs now, and feel supa-sweet
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1862896:date=Jul 23 2011, 06:20 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 23 2011, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862896"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly I think lerk gas would be better if it ONLY affected armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea. That way lerk spray would be more of a support weapon, softening up the marines for other skulks/fades/lerks using spikes.
Exactly, much better as a support weapon, it already obstructs marine vision so you could possibly add some slight blurring on top of that.
It also means it can be effective against exosuits, although obviously they have a lot of armor so it would be rather less useful, but still potentialy useful. Exos should probably not experience the vision blurring effect as well though.
It would actually make more sense for bile bombs to be effective against armor
The aliens need an armor penetrating class, and it needs to be intuitive so less knowledgeable players can still bring up the bottom line and not waste their time with ineffective attacks.
Ehh, I don't think aliens need a specifically anti-armor class, they do loads of damage with their basic attacks, what they need is a tank class, and that's what the onos is for.
You've got damage dealers in the form of fades, tanks in the form of the onos, support in the lerk and gorge, and... erm... chuckles? In the form of the skulk.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Spore damage is actually respectable now. Seven seconds is plenty of time to run out of a Spore cloud. The problems with Spore now are, its cheap energy cost (too spammable), and the delay in warning (the particle cloud grows too slowly).
<!--quoteo(post=1862930:date=Jul 23 2011, 11:55 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 23 2011, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spore damage is actually respectable now. Seven seconds is plenty of time to run out of a Spore cloud. The problems with Spore now are, its cheap energy cost (too spammable), and the delay in warning (the particle cloud grows too slowly).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You crazy. Running through a spore cloud from one end to the other does ~50 damage. And lerk players have already figured out hos to turn entire rooms and halls into gas chambers.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
made some dueals with a friend (we both played marine and lerk) and it feels much better with lowered damage (not only spores lowered, also spike dps).
Yeah I agree that the damage needs to be lowered, I could see this being overpowered in organised games as well. The damage needs to be slightly lowered and the adrenaline cost slightly raised - it'd make it more strategic than spammable while still keeping it a large annoyance for the marines and a support weapon for skulks.
Found that the best way for marines to win at the moment is to push flamers out as fast as they can
Comments
It was fine before.
It was fine before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lerk gas is harmful to you because you breath it in. The amount of armor your wearing on your body wouldn't do anything to effect that.
If you want to argue realistically then thinking back i recall the NS lore was that spore gas erodes armor because it senses the flesh underneath it and attempts to eat its way through. It didn't just have to be inhaled in order for it to damage, it attacked non-kharaa flesh any chance it got, including human skin. While having spores attacking your flesh by itself is bad and inhaling it made it worse, which is why marines now cough in spore clouds, it still ate at the armor marines wore. I'm not sure i got it perfect but that was the reasoning why it eroded armor in NS1 as i recall. Again, if this is what the dev's think is right then i guess we can always change NS lore to fit.
Another annoying thing is that the cloud you see is just a visual effect - the damage is done from the moment the lerk shoots, so once you see the cloud, you have already taken 20+ health damage before you can react.
if they make sense and include them
if they make sense and include them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless I am wrong that requires the server to run the mod, and there is few players as is.. only 3 servers to choose from at most times of day(only one or 2 a while after release :P).
the original game files.
The Lerk Spore Gas damage has been absolute disaster in this build. I played 8 games last night as Marine and marines won 1 game.
Lerk Gas was just carving up marines. The only way we could fight back was with Flamethrowers and even then that only delayed a slow demise.
I 'get' what the devs were doing with the gas ignoring armor but for goodness sake, nerf the damage a bit!?
This problem makes the game not very fun for marines and too easy and unchallenging for aliens.
The Lerk Spore Gas damage has been absolute disaster in this build. I played 8 games last night as Marine and marines won 1 game.
Lerk Gas was just carving up marines. The only way we could fight back was with Flamethrowers and even then that only delayed a slow demise.
I 'get' what the devs were doing with the gas ignoring armor but for goodness sake, nerf the damage a bit!?
This problem makes the game not very fun for marines and too easy and unchallenging for aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said in the 181 response post IMHO, instead of lowering HP damage of the spores the adrenaline use could be increased almost 5x(so you can only use it maybe 2-3 times before having to regenerate adrenaline) which would significantly lower the spam and destruction of current use. This would stop marines in their tracks, thus blocking off area's(which is the spores point) for a few seconds because of the damage caused. Whereas other-wise as in old versions people would just sprint through it and nail the lerk.
I really hate the idea of a gas attack that actually kills people, it's the most annoying thing to fight against other than the flamethrower.
I like this idea. That way lerk spray would be more of a support weapon, softening up the marines for other skulks/fades/lerks using spikes.
It also means it can be effective against exosuits, although obviously they have a lot of armor so it would be rather less useful, but still potentialy useful. Exos should probably not experience the vision blurring effect as well though.
The aliens need an armor penetrating class, and it needs to be intuitive so less knowledgeable players can still bring up the bottom line and not waste their time with ineffective attacks.
You've got damage dealers in the form of fades, tanks in the form of the onos, support in the lerk and gorge, and... erm... chuckles? In the form of the skulk.
See this change a closer step to ns1 :D
You crazy. Running through a spore cloud from one end to the other does ~50 damage. And lerk players have already figured out hos to turn entire rooms and halls into gas chambers.
spike dps).
The damage needs to be slightly lowered and the adrenaline cost slightly raised - it'd make it more strategic than spammable while still keeping it a large annoyance for the marines and a support weapon for skulks.
Found that the best way for marines to win at the moment is to push flamers out as fast as they can