<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->marines welding each other without welders or research<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whoa whoa whoa... lois, this isn't my batman glass.
<!--quoteo(post=1857545:date=Jul 1 2011, 06:58 PM:name=hf_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hf_ @ Jul 1 2011, 06:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines should be able to repair power nodes without buying anything as aliens are able to destroy them without upgrading or evolving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's some bad logic there buddy.
we have two different RACES.
marines should work differently from aliens, they can do same tasks as aliens but they do them differently.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited July 2011
Hopefully the welder is added soon, and that repairing armor, structures, and power nodes require the welder or macs. It would make macs valuable again.
I literally ###### my head sideways when I read today's tweet. Press "use" to repair marines armor? Huh? I liked HF_'s idea about having welder replace pistol slot. Have it cost like 5 - 10 res or something. It would also repair powernodes (faster than normal) and damaged buildings. (same speed as mac)
just being able to run up to a buddy and press E and repair his armor seems silly. I would rather it not be implemented like this, even if its just a placeholder.
edit: hmm, can't say c0cked. I wasn't trying to be perverted or anything.
<!--quoteo(post=1857553:date=Jul 1 2011, 02:07 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jul 1 2011, 02:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857553"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I literally ###### my head sideways when I read today's tweet. Press "use" to repair marines armor? Huh? I liked HF_'s idea about having welder replace pistol slot. Have it cost like 5 - 10 res or something. It would also repair powernodes (faster than normal) and damaged buildings. (same speed as mac)
just being able to run up to a buddy and press E and repair his armor seems silly. I would rather it not be implemented like this, even if its just a placeholder.
edit: hmm, can't say c0cked. I wasn't trying to be perverted or anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sounds like quick and dirty balance fix with plans to add the welder in later.
<!--quoteo(post=1857557:date=Jul 1 2011, 02:18 PM:name=EmpV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EmpV @ Jul 1 2011, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can the welder be one of the possible attachments for the assault rifle?
I hope there are still plans for more attachment choices than just the GL...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think i want it to replace the pistol. if i have a minigun, i'm not gonna drop it for a rifle + welder. but i still need a welder so i can run up to other marines and throw it at them so they can pick it up and weld my exosuit.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1857560:date=Jul 1 2011, 12:24 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Jul 1 2011, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think i want it to replace the pistol. if i have a minigun, i'm not gonna drop it for a rifle + welder. but i still need a welder so i can run up to other marines and throw it at them so they can pick it up and weld my exosuit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure how what I said was bad logic. If you're suggesting that aliens should be allowed destroy power nodes immediately, and marines must not only research the tech but also purchase that tech to be able to repair power nodes, you are giving a huge gameplay advantage to the alien side. The alien team would be smart to kill the power across the map, crippling the marines who will be waiting for research to complete in order to repair those nodes. Keep in mind that a robotics factory must also be built in order to get MACs out, so the delay in repairing res nodes is unavoidable.
The only way around this (based off of your suggestion) is to allow welders to be a free upgrade, immediately available once the armory is built. You would have to switch your pistol out for the welder, but you could have it at the start of the game.
Forcing the marine team to research a critical equipment upgrade immediately does not make any sense. What's the point in delaying them from repairing res nodes? Just so they can be "different" from the alien team? I find that to be a very poor argument. When you begin to sacrifice balance in the name of uniqueness, you're going to get a very poor gameplay experience.
If you remember previous builds when marines had to wait for MACs to come to res nodes to repair the power, I think you'll begin to understand the frustration in allowing aliens an unfair advantage with regard to power nodes (as they are essential for marines building structures).
both races should have some advantage, and disadvantage over each other while being able to handle different tasks at their own way.
with that being said, I can go along with welders being "free" but they must be bought from the armory. since charlie wants the armory to sell weapons, and allow marines to customize themselves without depending on the commander. Its not something every marine should have by default, and the current pushing E crap needs to go away quickly. I'm noticing them now going along with pushing E on each other to repair armor, you can now understand my stress about this silliness. The welder should replace the axe or pistol, I will go along with them being free if you go along with not every marine should have them by default since the armory must be the only place they can be gotten from or dropped by the commander.
You also have to remember the whole map starts of with all power nodes active, and aliens main hive has no power node at all - making it fully exposed. This is one of those disadvantage I've talked about. Their is more aliens have, and marines need to start having them also.
here is another stressful part of being an alien, power nodes which have been partially repaired, lets say 90% but marines die before they can finish - aliens cannot damage that power node until its 100%. I find this pretty annoying when I play aliens, we can hold the room nicely until they rush in and quickly repair that 10%.
<b>"We're have made some really big changes to the game for Build 180, so it's taking us extra time to get it ready for release. Next week. #fb 23 Jun"</b>
So what happened, where is it?
I don't mind waiting for big patches but we could get an a tweet to say what's going on? i expect a few bugs so don't over test each patch, as long as they're minor and not game breaking i would rather play with predictable updates, anyway keep up the good work, it's just a shame to hit the weekend and realise we have to wait for next week, again.
I was, and still am, against Marines being able to repair power nodes... but if they need a welder then its a bit more fair. Prehaps the Aliens dont need anything to destroy the nodes but on the other hand, the marines dont need to place them in the start of a map, the nodes already default to being on and active. Trying to chew a node as a Skulk or spike it as a Lerk is a time consuming process, and the skulk is very vunerable to being attacked unwares while chewing a node... only to have a group of marines just walk up and 'use' it with no issues.
I would take it one step further and require the welder take up the rifle slot, and let the welder be able to repair nodes , building and Marine armor... making this Marine a valuable addition to the team but needing protection by his mates. Taking up the pistol slot isnt really that big a deal, sure the pistol is a nice long ranged weapon but as a welder user you wouldnt be at the front or soloing.
Aliens can heal automatically but the Skulks are so flimsy that the auto heal is barely a factor, it wont help in a actual fight. Marines repairing armor of buddies while the buddy pours on the firepower is a formidable combination.. vs Skulks.
... sure you can say the Fades nullify the armor repair ability, but its a lot easier to research shotguns than to secure a second hive to aquire Fade lifeforms, and if Skulks and Lerks struggle to take down Marines that use LMG's and welders, that second hive is even more unlikely.
<!--quoteo(post=1857627:date=Jul 2 2011, 09:34 AM:name=Magneto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Magneto @ Jul 2 2011, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857627"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So what happened, where is it?
I don't mind waiting for big patches but we could get an a tweet to say what's going on? i expect a few bugs so don't over test each patch, as long as they're minor and not game breaking i would rather play with predictable updates, anyway keep up the good work, it's just a shame to hit the weekend and realise we have to wait for next week, again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately Max and Charlie were pulled away last week to do a lot of company business related stuff, which had a big impact on the patch progress. The bugs that were encountered were gamebreaking, but the patch is almost ready and should be able to be released when everyone's back in the office next week.
Marines are just as vulnerable when repairing the nodes.. their weapon disappears, and they are in a stationary position.. prime bait and an easy target for a skulk. Thus, I don't think you have much ground for arguing that the aliens are the only ones that are vulnerable on power nodes.
I agree that it isn't completely fair that marines have their rooms powered on at the beginning, and aliens must infest areas in order to expand. I think as more features are added, this will balance itself out. If infestation can kill power nodes and marines cannot repair the node without the infestation being removed first, this will make it harder for marines to simply power on a room and build things immediately.
I'd like the see the power node able to be damaged when it's still destroyed. I agree that it's not fair the marines can repair it to 50-60% while the aliens cannot damage it again until it's fully repaired.
I don't think welders should have the ability to repair marine armor -- they should only be used for structures and power nodes. I like the idea that marines can repair power nodes without a welder, but this should occur at a slower rate than B179. Welders would repair nodes faster and could also repair any other marine structure (much like a MAC).
I think a new "weapon" should be introduced. It should be a mobile marine repair kit / syringe gun that would heal the health / armor of teammates. It would take the primary weapon slot (i.e. the rifle) and have ammo like any other weapon. Also, its secondary fire could be an adrenaline boost/buff that temporary increases the damage of a teammate. This would turn the marine into a support class and incredibly valuable to squads. I think it would help reinforce teamwork between players as well, while taking some of the stress off of the commander spamming healthpacks everywhere.
To expand on this repair kit / syringe gun, a fun idea would be that it could damage alien players over a period of time, acting as poison to their immune systems. For instance, it could deal 50 damage over 10 seconds (5 damage per second). The weapon would be melee or have a very short range so you'd have to be right next to an alien or marine to affect them.
<!--quoteo(post=1857678:date=Jul 2 2011, 08:29 PM:name=hf_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hf_ @ Jul 2 2011, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857678"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree that it isn't completely fair that marines have their rooms powered on at the beginning, and aliens must infest areas in order to expand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
tt has been said earlier that mappers wll be able to decide which rooms are powered and which are not at the beginning of a match, so this can also be "balanced" by the mapper.
Dont forget the Marines already have the option to drop meds and ammo on Marines in the fight, additional healing on the fly would make it significantly harder to repulse an all in Hive bust... Kharaa heals are based on time and near key structures, and Hive 1 lifeforms are pretty easy to kill especially if the Marines pick the fighting spots ( ie Marines attacking the Hive , Skulk says ok I'll wait down here and ambush them as they leave...not happening, instead its Skulks trying to swarm the Marines who are hopping around and being a difficult target to take down ).
Skulks chewing a node ARE significantly at more risk than a Marine... Marine can take at least 2 hits before going down, assuming full health whereas a Skulk is dead before they can react ( literally, chewing away and ready to hit leap at the slightest clue a Marine is near me, didnt help...dead before I could rightclick ).
Taking the middle ground and sacrificing a weapon slot ( I prefer to take away the LMG, but I guess that would cause too much outcry, so guess its the pistol ) for a welder, and making it a comm dropped item and not buyable armory option ( or limit the number of welders / make it a considerable team res cost to limit welding chain gangs ). Allow the welder to repair structures , nodes and fellow marine armor loss to make it a valuable item.
infestation suppose to damage marine buildings, which include power nodes but the current infestation does nothing but paint the floors pretty much. I'm guessing once they make infestation actually play its part as it should be, things will be much better.
as for welder comment, again I will repeat.
1. they should repair armor 2. they should repair buildings 3.they must be bought from the ARMORY or dropped by the commander 4.it should NOT be given to all marines by default 5. it should replace the axe or pistol 6. welders can be accessed when armory goes up 7. change how armory works - allow normal armory restore health only while adv armory would restore health and armor < this would promote welders
marines can customize themselves based on the weapons they chose, which would define their different role on the team.
<!--quoteo(post=1857698:date=Jul 2 2011, 03:15 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Jul 2 2011, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->7. change how armory works - allow normal armory restore health only while adv armory would restore health and armor < this would promote welders<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't promote welders, you give too much credit to the average marine player. In NS1 is a welder was dropped in a public game it got next to no use other than worthlessly welding half-health resource towers.
<!--quoteo(post=1857550:date=Jul 2 2011, 03:05 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Jul 2 2011, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1857545:date=Jul 2 2011, 02:58 AM:name=hf_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hf_ @ Jul 2 2011, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Marines should be able to repair power nodes without buying anything as aliens are able to destroy them without upgrading or evolving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's some bad logic there buddy.
we have two different RACES.
marines should work differently from aliens, they can do same tasks as aliens but they do them differently.
that is why welders MUST BE ADDED. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only if MACs are free and available from the start.
Comments
whoa whoa whoa... lois, this isn't my batman glass.
that's some bad logic there buddy.
we have two different RACES.
marines should work differently from aliens, they can do same tasks as aliens but they do them differently.
that is why welders MUST BE ADDED.
just being able to run up to a buddy and press E and repair his armor seems silly. I would rather it not be implemented like this, even if its just a placeholder.
edit: hmm, can't say c0cked. I wasn't trying to be perverted or anything.
just being able to run up to a buddy and press E and repair his armor seems silly. I would rather it not be implemented like this, even if its just a placeholder.
edit: hmm, can't say c0cked. I wasn't trying to be perverted or anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sounds like quick and dirty balance fix with plans to add the welder in later.
I hope there are still plans for more attachment choices than just the GL...
I hope there are still plans for more attachment choices than just the GL...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think i want it to replace the pistol. if i have a minigun, i'm not gonna drop it for a rifle + welder. but i still need a welder so i can run up to other marines and throw it at them so they can pick it up and weld my exosuit.
Also it opens up the possibility of more buyable 2nd slot items one day.
dunno, i'd guess next tuesday, but i'd like to wait until max hammers out the occlusion culling.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/fd60d.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Need more pistol-welders!
We can build structures, repair each others armor and powernodes but wont be able to repair normal structures Oo
Not sure how what I said was bad logic. If you're suggesting that aliens should be allowed destroy power nodes immediately, and marines must not only research the tech but also purchase that tech to be able to repair power nodes, you are giving a huge gameplay advantage to the alien side. The alien team would be smart to kill the power across the map, crippling the marines who will be waiting for research to complete in order to repair those nodes. Keep in mind that a robotics factory must also be built in order to get MACs out, so the delay in repairing res nodes is unavoidable.
The only way around this (based off of your suggestion) is to allow welders to be a free upgrade, immediately available once the armory is built. You would have to switch your pistol out for the welder, but you could have it at the start of the game.
Forcing the marine team to research a critical equipment upgrade immediately does not make any sense. What's the point in delaying them from repairing res nodes? Just so they can be "different" from the alien team? I find that to be a very poor argument. When you begin to sacrifice balance in the name of uniqueness, you're going to get a very poor gameplay experience.
If you remember previous builds when marines had to wait for MACs to come to res nodes to repair the power, I think you'll begin to understand the frustration in allowing aliens an unfair advantage with regard to power nodes (as they are essential for marines building structures).
with that being said, I can go along with welders being "free" but they must be bought from the armory. since charlie wants the armory to sell weapons, and allow marines to customize themselves without depending on the commander. Its not something every marine should have by default, and the current pushing E crap needs to go away quickly. I'm noticing them now going along with pushing E on each other to repair armor, you can now understand my stress about this silliness.
The welder should replace the axe or pistol, I will go along with them being free if you go along with not every marine should have them by default since the armory must be the only place they can be gotten from or dropped by the commander.
You also have to remember the whole map starts of with all power nodes active, and aliens main hive has no power node at all - making it fully exposed. This is one of those disadvantage I've talked about. Their is more aliens have, and marines need to start having them also.
here is another stressful part of being an alien, power nodes which have been partially repaired, lets say 90% but marines die before they can finish - aliens cannot damage that power node until its 100%. I find this pretty annoying when I play aliens, we can hold the room nicely until they rush in and quickly repair that 10%.
Should help performance!
23 Jun"</b>
So what happened, where is it?
I don't mind waiting for big patches but we could get an a tweet to say what's going on? i expect a few bugs so don't over test each patch, as long as they're minor and not game breaking i would rather play with predictable updates, anyway keep up the good work, it's just a shame to hit the weekend and realise we have to wait for next week, again.
Prehaps the Aliens dont need anything to destroy the nodes but on the other hand, the marines dont need to place them in the start of a map, the nodes already default to being on and active.
Trying to chew a node as a Skulk or spike it as a Lerk is a time consuming process, and the skulk is very vunerable to being attacked unwares while chewing a node... only to have a group of marines just walk up and 'use' it with no issues.
I would take it one step further and require the welder take up the rifle slot, and let the welder be able to repair nodes , building and Marine armor... making this Marine a valuable addition to the team but needing protection by his mates.
Taking up the pistol slot isnt really that big a deal, sure the pistol is a nice long ranged weapon but as a welder user you wouldnt be at the front or soloing.
Aliens can heal automatically but the Skulks are so flimsy that the auto heal is barely a factor, it wont help in a actual fight. Marines repairing armor of buddies while the buddy pours on the firepower is a formidable combination.. vs Skulks.
... sure you can say the Fades nullify the armor repair ability, but its a lot easier to research shotguns than to secure a second hive to aquire Fade lifeforms, and if Skulks and Lerks struggle to take down Marines that use LMG's and welders, that second hive is even more unlikely.
... unless a drifter researches ninjitsu :P
I don't mind waiting for big patches but we could get an a tweet to say what's going on? i expect a few bugs so don't over test each patch, as long as they're minor and not game breaking i would rather play with predictable updates, anyway keep up the good work, it's just a shame to hit the weekend and realise we have to wait for next week, again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately Max and Charlie were pulled away last week to do a lot of company business related stuff, which had a big impact on the patch progress. The bugs that were encountered were gamebreaking, but the patch is almost ready and should be able to be released when everyone's back in the office next week.
--Cory
Marines are just as vulnerable when repairing the nodes.. their weapon disappears, and they are in a stationary position.. prime bait and an easy target for a skulk. Thus, I don't think you have much ground for arguing that the aliens are the only ones that are vulnerable on power nodes.
I agree that it isn't completely fair that marines have their rooms powered on at the beginning, and aliens must infest areas in order to expand. I think as more features are added, this will balance itself out. If infestation can kill power nodes and marines cannot repair the node without the infestation being removed first, this will make it harder for marines to simply power on a room and build things immediately.
I'd like the see the power node able to be damaged when it's still destroyed. I agree that it's not fair the marines can repair it to 50-60% while the aliens cannot damage it again until it's fully repaired.
I'm not giving up LOL.
I think a new "weapon" should be introduced. It should be a mobile marine repair kit / syringe gun that would heal the health / armor of teammates. It would take the primary weapon slot (i.e. the rifle) and have ammo like any other weapon. Also, its secondary fire could be an adrenaline boost/buff that temporary increases the damage of a teammate. This would turn the marine into a support class and incredibly valuable to squads. I think it would help reinforce teamwork between players as well, while taking some of the stress off of the commander spamming healthpacks everywhere.
To expand on this repair kit / syringe gun, a fun idea would be that it could damage alien players over a period of time, acting as poison to their immune systems. For instance, it could deal 50 damage over 10 seconds (5 damage per second). The weapon would be melee or have a very short range so you'd have to be right next to an alien or marine to affect them.
tt has been said earlier that mappers wll be able to decide which rooms are powered and which are not at the beginning of a match, so this can also be "balanced" by the mapper.
Skulks chewing a node ARE significantly at more risk than a Marine... Marine can take at least 2 hits before going down, assuming full health whereas a Skulk is dead before they can react ( literally, chewing away and ready to hit leap at the slightest clue a Marine is near me, didnt help...dead before I could rightclick ).
Taking the middle ground and sacrificing a weapon slot ( I prefer to take away the LMG, but I guess that would cause too much outcry, so guess its the pistol ) for a welder, and making it a comm dropped item and not buyable armory option ( or limit the number of welders / make it a considerable team res cost to limit welding chain gangs ).
Allow the welder to repair structures , nodes and fellow marine armor loss to make it a valuable item.
as for welder comment, again I will repeat.
1. they should repair armor
2. they should repair buildings
3.they must be bought from the ARMORY or dropped by the commander
4.it should NOT be given to all marines by default
5. it should replace the axe or pistol
6. welders can be accessed when armory goes up
7. change how armory works - allow normal armory restore health only while adv armory would restore health and armor < this would promote welders
marines can customize themselves based on the weapons they chose, which would define their different role on the team.
It wouldn't promote welders, you give too much credit to the average marine player. In NS1 is a welder was dropped in a public game it got next to no use other than worthlessly welding half-health resource towers.
And Veritas seemed to play really bad public servers or something.
I'm not giving up LOL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
or even just an exosuit silhouette
Marines should be able to repair power nodes without buying anything as aliens are able to destroy them without upgrading or evolving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's some bad logic there buddy.
we have two different RACES.
marines should work differently from aliens, they can do same tasks as aliens but they do them differently.
that is why welders MUST BE ADDED.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only if MACs are free and available from the start.