Marine Animations
ArmadonRK
Join Date: 2005-01-24 Member: 37926Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2005-01-24 Member: 37926Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Time to voice my discontent...</div>NS2 development has been moving at a great pace lately, with changes and updates always impressing me, and the gameplay is starting to come together where I think you can finally feel comfortable showing it to "real" customers, people seeing NS for the first time. It runs smooth and devoid of gamebreaking bugs, with pretty decent, if imperfect and incomplete, game balance.
So it's time for my one great criticism of the game, one I've had since the start of the alpha, and one that seems permanent, while I'd hoped it wouldn't be.
The first person animations for marines, and the sounds that go with them.
The Kharaa seem to be in a good place, and that's because the new animation style works for them. It's fluid and smooth, and the aliens all feel very lifelike and, well, alien. But the marine animations are simply disappointing.
The models and skins are all phenomenal, and I do love the shotgun draw, but just about everything else is wrong. Not necessarily because it is bad outright, but because of how it compares to NS1. The animations in NS1 were sharp and had kick. I will never forget the satisfying click-clack of reloading an LMG, or the metallic fwoop of the grenade launcher. Partly it was the sounds, which were standout, but mostly it was the way the guns felt real. The magazine was pulled out with force and the new one clicked into place. It looked and sounded sturdy, real. The guns fired with force and everything was sharp and solid.
The new animations are too smooth, too fluid, and the sounds are equally mellow. The firing animations have no kick, the reloads just flow, as if the guns and magazines were jello. They don't feel real.
This is all the more disappointing because of how NS1's animations were not only ahead of the curve back then, but are still some of the best animations to be found in a first-person shooter today. They certainly put NS2's to shame.
NS2 is a beautiful looking and sounding game. It's dark and gritty and it feels so very real. It's a shame that in all of that, I feel weak wielding my rifle, and awkward firing my grenade launcher. It may get the job done, but it doesn't feel like it should. For such an immersive game it's what's right in front of every player's eyes, their weapon, that breaks the illusion.
All that said, keep up the good work, UWE!
So it's time for my one great criticism of the game, one I've had since the start of the alpha, and one that seems permanent, while I'd hoped it wouldn't be.
The first person animations for marines, and the sounds that go with them.
The Kharaa seem to be in a good place, and that's because the new animation style works for them. It's fluid and smooth, and the aliens all feel very lifelike and, well, alien. But the marine animations are simply disappointing.
The models and skins are all phenomenal, and I do love the shotgun draw, but just about everything else is wrong. Not necessarily because it is bad outright, but because of how it compares to NS1. The animations in NS1 were sharp and had kick. I will never forget the satisfying click-clack of reloading an LMG, or the metallic fwoop of the grenade launcher. Partly it was the sounds, which were standout, but mostly it was the way the guns felt real. The magazine was pulled out with force and the new one clicked into place. It looked and sounded sturdy, real. The guns fired with force and everything was sharp and solid.
The new animations are too smooth, too fluid, and the sounds are equally mellow. The firing animations have no kick, the reloads just flow, as if the guns and magazines were jello. They don't feel real.
This is all the more disappointing because of how NS1's animations were not only ahead of the curve back then, but are still some of the best animations to be found in a first-person shooter today. They certainly put NS2's to shame.
NS2 is a beautiful looking and sounding game. It's dark and gritty and it feels so very real. It's a shame that in all of that, I feel weak wielding my rifle, and awkward firing my grenade launcher. It may get the job done, but it doesn't feel like it should. For such an immersive game it's what's right in front of every player's eyes, their weapon, that breaks the illusion.
All that said, keep up the good work, UWE!
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/9/first_peek_at_the_new_frontiersman" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009...ew_frontiersman</a>
The animations in the model viewer look pretty solid to me. They're probably still a few bugs in the animation system, and several layers of polish away from a final product. Small clicks and other minor things will make it in eventually.
And the pistol is basically being held down by his crotch.. who the hell holds a pistol like that, looks more like is taking a piss then picking off some aliens.
Outside of that I think everything is great animation wise.
I think you'll find that it's there because if it's moved up any further, there will be a tidalwave of complaints about it "blocking the screen" from "pro" gamers.
The animations for when the shotgun fires are also weird to me, it always looks like it's kicking back into it's face
I've checked the animations in the model viewer and they seemed so much better and more natural when seen from a further point of view, especially for the shotgun and pistol
Check reference pic for point
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/noqLl.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/noqLl.jpg</a>
Maybe it has to do with the ammo counter, it can't be that far but still
Also I think the rifle and FT could sound better but the rest in my eyes is fine
I agree with everything you said, except this.
NS2 isn't dark and gritty. It doesn't have that chilling atmosphere that NS1 has. The maps are too clean to give you the feeling you're in some abandoned space station, infested by aliens. I want blood spatter on the walls, alien slime coming out of the vents. Rooms that are almost pitch black, with eerie sounds coming from every corner giving you the creeps.
To create that atmosphere the devs could make better use of ambient sounds, lighting and just add some gore. Currently the game feels too 'sweet'. Maybe the devs should take a look at the movie Alien(s) for inspiration.
That's one of the things that annoys me about many video games and movies; the guns just don't feel like guns. Guns are loud, dangerous things; they don't make cute popping noises. That isn't to say that guns in games should be deafening, but they should convey a feeling of being incredibly loud.
The guns could be made a bit more 'heavy'. My personal taste was always to make guns in games almost deafening during firefights. Most people after an afternoon on shooting range hear high pitched noise in their ears for a day or two - its certainly not from a gentle reminder 'Shh - you just shot a bullet'.
The other way to go could be to try do something like the smartgun from aliens - this shrieking sound that was also present in the orginal natural-selection website intro all the way back before NS1 1.0 (IIRC).
The HMG had a great overall feeling IMHO. Could use some momentum animation while swinging it around.
That's one of the things that annoys me about many video games and movies; the guns just don't feel like guns. Guns are loud, dangerous things; they don't make cute popping noises. That isn't to say that guns in games should be deafening, but they should convey a feeling of being incredibly loud.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree. I think the devs should play some Bad Company 2 with the "War Tapes" audio option enabled. <i>That's</i> what guns are supposed to feel like in a game.
A game I am really looking forward to is Red Orchestra 2. The first RO had fantastic gunplay and wonderful sounds, that really made the experience better
NS1 maps had generic lighting, not dynamic. it looks very 'same-y' if you go back now and look at them all. Animations were good for the time, but limiting and simple. They're much better in NS2. I would tweak some of them yes, but it's more of a personal preference than bad animating. I haven't seen a NS2 animation that's made me want to immediately re-animate it. Speaking from a professional animator's POV.
I agree, there seems to be lots of nostalgia regarding the atmosphere of NS1. Another reason is that the lack of detail in NS1 left more room for our imagination to fill in the missing things. The more detail a game has, the more obviously artificial looking it becomes imo. Very hard to compensate that for the designers I would think.
Ok, so I agree with the OP. The animations need to have some punch. Get the marine to quickly snap the old clip out, toss it to the side. rotate the LMG 90 degress so the ammo port is facing to the left, and slam a new clip in. Then tip the gun back over to lock the first round in the chamber.
As for sounds, they also need a bit more oompf.
The grenade launcher (and I have read about the devs not liking this too) animations are terrible, they are slow, uber smooth, and weird to look at.
running and sprinting animations need a redo too.
NOTE: I have NEVER played natural selection 1. I've seen one trailer for it, a long time ago (like 4 years ago).
to anyone who wants to tell me it's a beta: I know it's a beta, that's why I'm suggesting these drastic improvements, so the game is excellent by the time it is classed as final.
let the marine struggle with his weapon a litle. He still should rip out the mag, put in a new - but maybe the mag hits the gun a few inches aside the mag-opening or maybe he slips of the mag a litle.. as if he were in panic by the aliens or just annoyed (when there are no aliens around) yeah, i guess thats really hard to do right..
Yeah, I think it's partitially the imagination thing, but I think it's also a valid point of discussion.
When you set up a bar through graphical output, you have to be consistent. I can still be absolutely immersed by games from late 90s as long as they're consistent. Meanwhile 2011 game with some bad animation or inconsistent visual or audial output can remain very distant even if all the elements on their own are supposed to be way higher level than in some older games. Everything can even be top notch quality and still feel totally out of place if the whole thing doesn't work together with the rest of the game.
So... Maybe there is some inconsistency on how it all plays out in NS2. Sometimes there are very little trickeries related to the game's mood and themes that make all the difference for animations and such. For example in SC2 it was a big change when they slightly adjusted the direction the light hits units.
NS1 maps had generic lighting, not dynamic. it looks very 'same-y' if you go back now and look at them all. Animations were good for the time, but limiting and simple. They're much better in NS2. I would tweak some of them yes, but it's more of a personal preference than bad animating. I haven't seen a NS2 animation that's made me want to immediately re-animate it. Speaking from a professional animator's POV.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not talking about high tech lighting, sharper textures, particle systems blabla, only the way the game 'feels'.
NS1 had a better feel.
I'm not looking through nostalgia glasses, I'm talking about it having played NS1 alongside the development of NS2, and comparing the two. Yes, NS2 is on the whole a much improved game over NS1. Lighting, textures, modeling, overall animation and sound design are all so much better now than they were in the original NS. But do <b>first person marine animations and sounds</b> in NS2, specifically, pale in comparison to those of its predecessor? Absolutely.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Animations were good for the time, but limiting and simple. They're much better in NS2. I would tweak some of them yes, but it's more of a personal preference than bad animating. I haven't seen a NS2 animation that's made me want to immediately re-animate it. Speaking from a professional animator's POV.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a professional animator surely you can see how jelly-like the current marine animations are? They are definitely smooth and fluid, but far from realistic. If you haven't played NS1 recently, you really should. I think the comparison will not be flattering to the newer, sexier NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1854721:date=Jun 20 2011, 09:12 AM:name=revbass)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (revbass @ Jun 20 2011, 09:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not talking about high tech lighting, sharper textures, particle systems blabla, only the way the game 'feels'.
NS1 had a better feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, I think NS2 has a better feel. I think it's more immersive. But to each his/her own.