<!--quoteo(post=1852916:date=Jun 15 2011, 09:17 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ Jun 15 2011, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852916"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey guys! I can't wait to place some crotch all over the map! Crotch for all! The ladies just dig my big hydra that grows from my crotch. Apparently Marines slow down when walking on my crotch now.
"Crotch" is about as stupid as having an alien commander. Nothing surprises me anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well let's be thankful it's called infestation then. ;D
I've seen some of Thalradin's posts in the past and I can say they were negative and cynical -- but some of you are being blatantly difficult on purpose it seems. His initial post has nothing to do with discussing the nomenclature in NS2. His fault I guess for stating his personal opinion/disagreement with it; but you know what...I agree with him on that point. Croach is no good. It's not a term that is expressive towards what the infestation presents itself as and feels like in game. That's right...expression...feelings. If a game doesn't feel right, I won't like it very much. Croach does feel sharp or hard. You can almost hiss the word infestation. Then again, it's just a name.
Is the infestation implementation an engine or gameplay programmer task? Both, right? I'm sure Max has a lot to do and I feel that he probably struggles with certain things, but I feel confident that what we saw originally will make it in game. They did it once before on another engine, why wouldn't they be able to still on their own homebrew?
Throwing it in with the pustule concept would make sense, but perhaps its a feature that is planned on being added in alone as a major task. I admit, I'm disappointed that such a unique part of the game hasn't come to full fruition yet, but I guess it's more of a visual implementation after the this prototype is working satisfactorily. I'd like to see some changes to the 3D concept myself. It looked slimy and slick before, but it needs something else to really make it unique (maybe unique isn't the right word I want to use...but the 3D version needs something to really "wow" us). Maybe some more texture? Some concept drawings almost look like it has a mossy appearance. This would look nice if the slimy base had random patch patterns over it, giving it even more depth.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1852836:date=Jun 15 2011, 01:37 AM:name=Chops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chops @ Jun 15 2011, 01:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The '06 concept was using Source and is not compatible with the Spark engine. But the '11 version should be much cooler :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just and FYI here:
The '06 version "tech demo" was using a BSP map on a version of the Spark engine before it was dubbed Spark.
<!--quoteo(post=1852761:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:31 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 14 2011, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I sort of ask myself, what did someone actually work on in this period, because the recent additions of bloom, the smaller arc stuff etc. It can't have taken that long a time scale to add for a game development team aiming to release by the end of this year, can it? Who knows, maybe DI will be out within a month and it'll look pretty much like what I hope for, maybe the game will actually be released this year in an acceptable state, again who knows. I certainly don't and have no in cling what so ever, except I'm getting more and more dis-satisfied with lack of progress over time passed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> While the general question behind this thread (Any idea when the real DI will be implemented?) is perfectly valid, its this antagonistic and accusatory tone that your posts often consist of, that makes us want to ignore you, Thaldarin. If you're posting just to try and get a rise out of us, or to complain, or to infer that we are not working as hard and as fast as we can, then you can expect, from now on, to be ignored. If you would like to be a more productive member of the community, we'd be happy to answer questions.
We have a lot of plans for improving the look of the DI, and Max has it on his schedule to address, as soon as higher priority tasks are done. He has been neck deep in engine optimization tasks for a long time, as I think we can all agree that is top priority. Every once in a while he takes a break to do some smaller tasks, like bloom, which can be added to the game much more easily. Doing a fully realized version of the final DI is a much more complicated task, and requires a lot of time and thought, not to mention the fact that, at this stage, it would likely add to the performance problems that we are trying to deal with.
On top of that, there are still design aspects that we want to test out and play with, before spending too much time on the final look. The next step, and something which is being worked on currently, is getting the pustules and vine approach to creating and spreading DI working in the game, so that we can test that out.
I would love to have a more visually pleasing version of DI in the game, since it does make it hard to take screenshots and make trailers and such, with the issues of the decals stretching on vertical surfaces. But, for the purposes of gameplay, the decals work, therefore, its more important to get the other missing features in first. So, I'm sorry that we can't give a time estimate for when we can get to this, but rest assured that the final implementation of the DI will look much much better then the current stand in version that is in there, and will be done before we release 1.0
Yeah I'd rather have engine optimisations than pretty DI, the gameplay element is largely in already, almost everything left is just a visual effect, which I don't really think makes the game better, at least not compared to things like getting rid of the lag and hitches.
A pretty yet unplayable game is an unplayable game.
Jason WhoreJoin Date: 2011-04-11Member: 92514Members
edited June 2011
Optimization then EXO,onos,jetpack and stuff (cause they have a real function and you can test gameplay with them AND look pretty) then "real" Di... (and i dunno.. the current one is kinda memorable <3)
Jason WhoreJoin Date: 2011-04-11Member: 92514Members
yeah thats kinda funny right? but its not meant to offend anybody.. its just .. hm.. do you know jason vore? the mass murder guy? yeah... i'm not so into vore. ###### fits better
I definitely prefer DI. It's easy to abbreviate, the word infestation is easy to connect into the cheesy goo on the map, both for NS veterans and new players. Croach doesn't really connect well and it's going to be confused with crouching and insults revolving around a certain body part probably.
I think DI also has a way better pronounciation for any kind of unoptimal mic communication. Croach is going to sound like a garble and have a few dozen different pronounciations on European servers at least. Meanwhile DI and Infestation both have a pretty distinct sound even with accents and mispronounciations, I think.
Infestation especially is pretty good word in general. "Infest that!" sounds a lot more informative for a newcomer than "Croach that!". The dynamic part can go if necessary, but I'd still prefer to have some descriptive word in front of the infestation so that the word can be abbreviated into 2 letters easily.
<!--quoteo(post=1853092:date=Jun 15 2011, 08:27 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jun 15 2011, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So is it officially DI or croach now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen the devs use Croach in their replies on the forum. Does that mean its official? I dont know but I like it.
Ya well there is no moderation on keeping topics on topic so generally people hi-jack the threads. But it's in the same area of what the topic is on so... yeah. In this case it's the Dynamic Croach and when will it be implemented. :D
<!--quoteo(post=1853098:date=Jun 15 2011, 09:33 PM:name=eisiger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eisiger @ Jun 15 2011, 09:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think he wants to know when the shiny gooey lumpy stuff will be put in so he can sit in a corner and watch it grow<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol. Anyway...
I will not be using Croach, its an unnecessary and confusing change. Don't change what isn't broken, plus infestation and DI is pretty much set-in-stone. So yeah, no Croach for me.
I will not be using Croach, its an unnecessary and confusing change. Don't change what isn't broken, plus infestation and DI is pretty much set-in-stone. So yeah, no Croach for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya you can think that (I still use infestation) but the game is not finished either. :3 Maybe Blizzard used "Infestation" up until the part where they came out with "Creep". Lets see where this creativity gets UWE? We still have people calling it Infestation so if some of their ideas don't work we still have something to fall back on.
<!--quoteo(post=1853094:date=Jun 15 2011, 09:28 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jun 15 2011, 09:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853094"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have seen the devs use Croach in their replies on the forum. Does that mean its official? I dont know but I like it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, then again Cory used DI in his response in this very thread...
When I first saw the DI tech demo a few years back, I was super impressed. And I'm not going to lie, that video alone generated my strong interest for Natural Selection 2.
When NS1 was popular, I had played it a bit, but I was too busy with TFC and CS to invest time into it so it largly went unnoticed, the DI video completely changed that.
NS2 is shaping up to be an amazing game in its own right, but personally I won't be completely satisfied until I see DI similar to what was shown in that original video. I know it's a little irrational, but I have this vision of the game where the entire map and playing field starts off looking one way and then, depending on the successes of the alien team, completely changes to look vastly different.
I kind of got a fix with the recent addition of the power nodes, for sure. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1853107:date=Jun 15 2011, 08:51 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jun 15 2011, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, then again Cory used DI in his response in this very thread...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's specifically talking about the technical feature and not what it's called in the game's fiction. that's an important distinction that many are missing.
<!--quoteo(post=1853048:date=Jun 15 2011, 06:27 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jun 15 2011, 06:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><Lots of stuff><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can agree sometimes I may come across in the wrong way. Although without trying to incur any offence I ask you, is there ever anything you've ever bought that you've been dis-satisfied with? From someone you trust?
Possibly I look at the whole process with too much of a business focus rather than a creative process?
<!--quoteo(post=1853103:date=Jun 15 2011, 04:47 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Jun 15 2011, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol. Anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113743" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113743</a> It's amazing how easily people can derail others and their own threads.
DI would be nice to see, but I would rather see these 'silly' optimizations being churned out if it means allowing the game development to progress. DI just isn't ready yet so I just get used to seeing ugly green, knowing that right now realtime DI morphing would probably break half the game somehow.
<!--quoteo(post=1853113:date=Jun 15 2011, 04:58 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 15 2011, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can agree sometimes I may come across in the wrong way. Although without trying to incur any offence I ask you, is there ever anything you've ever bought that you've been dis-satisfied with? From someone you trust?
Possibly I look at the whole process with too much of a business focus rather than a creative process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You'd have gotten your refund and moved on to more lucrative and/or productive things by now if a business-minded-perspective was your crime.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Current DI is a good placeholder, though I would like to see its health reduced until pustules are implemented. However, I do have some gameplay concerns that would be nice to see addressed. Namely,
1. Poor scalability DI doesn't scale very well with map size. In particular, it spreads too fast for rockdown and too slow for summit. Tram seems pretty close to the right speed (or maybe a bit on the fast side). Not sure this is the best method, but having the DI spread speed and radius as a ratio to map size might work (though it'd be a bit confusing for new comms).
2. Needing to micromanage DI spread I frequently find myself having to micromanage DI spread to ensure that a) I don't put a DI patch too far away from another and b) to link them to the desired spots. Pustules will help with a), but I still see quite a bit of micromanagement required. While this works in pure RTSs (think SC1/2 creep spread), it kind of detracts from NS2 gameplay. In particular, I'd like some way to waypoint DI spread to the desired location (e.g. from alien start to crevice or generator on summit) such that it does it automatically.
3. Hive DI loss bug Ok, this is just a bug, but its a pretty big one for DI. Basically, if a flamethrower destroys the DI directly under the hive, it permanently cuts all DI connections to that hive (such that the hive needs to be rebuilt before you can connect any DI to it again). This hasn't been a terribly large problem, since marines don't flamethrowers close enough to hives anymore, but it will get much bigger once the balance improves.
<!--quoteo(post=1853113:date=Jun 15 2011, 09:58 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 15 2011, 09:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can agree sometimes I may come across in the wrong way. Although without trying to incur any offence I ask you, is there ever anything you've ever bought that you've been dis-satisfied with? From someone you trust?
Possibly I look at the whole process with too much of a business focus rather than a creative process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get a refund if your dissatisfied then and stop QQing on the forums. It's getting tiring.
<!--quoteo(post=1853048:date=Jun 16 2011, 04:27 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jun 16 2011, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would love to have a more visually pleasing version of DI in the game, since it does make it hard to take screenshots and make trailers and such, with the issues of the decals stretching on vertical surfaces. But, for the purposes of gameplay, the decals work, therefore, its more important to get the other missing features in first. So, I'm sorry that we can't give a time estimate for when we can get to this, but rest assured that the final implementation of the DI will look much much better then the current stand in version that is in there, and will be done before we release 1.0
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cory a very easy fix to this problem in the meantime is doing a tri-planner projection instead of planner for the decals.. It shouldn't be to hard to do.. It will at least get rid of the yucky stretching...
Comments
"Crotch" is about as stupid as having an alien commander. Nothing surprises me anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well let's be thankful it's called infestation then. ;D
I've seen some of Thalradin's posts in the past and I can say they were negative and cynical -- but some of you are being blatantly difficult on purpose it seems. His initial post has nothing to do with discussing the nomenclature in NS2. His fault I guess for stating his personal opinion/disagreement with it; but you know what...I agree with him on that point. Croach is no good. It's not a term that is expressive towards what the infestation presents itself as and feels like in game. That's right...expression...feelings. If a game doesn't feel right, I won't like it very much. Croach does feel sharp or hard. You can almost hiss the word infestation. Then again, it's just a name.
Is the infestation implementation an engine or gameplay programmer task? Both, right? I'm sure Max has a lot to do and I feel that he probably struggles with certain things, but I feel confident that what we saw originally will make it in game. They did it once before on another engine, why wouldn't they be able to still on their own homebrew?
Throwing it in with the pustule concept would make sense, but perhaps its a feature that is planned on being added in alone as a major task. I admit, I'm disappointed that such a unique part of the game hasn't come to full fruition yet, but I guess it's more of a visual implementation after the this prototype is working satisfactorily. I'd like to see some changes to the 3D concept myself. It looked slimy and slick before, but it needs something else to really make it unique (maybe unique isn't the right word I want to use...but the 3D version needs something to really "wow" us). Maybe some more texture? Some concept drawings almost look like it has a mossy appearance. This would look nice if the slimy base had random patch patterns over it, giving it even more depth.
Just and FYI here:
The '06 version "tech demo" was using a BSP map on a version of the Spark engine before it was dubbed Spark.
While the general question behind this thread (Any idea when the real DI will be implemented?) is perfectly valid, its this antagonistic and accusatory tone that your posts often consist of, that makes us want to ignore you, Thaldarin. If you're posting just to try and get a rise out of us, or to complain, or to infer that we are not working as hard and as fast as we can, then you can expect, from now on, to be ignored. If you would like to be a more productive member of the community, we'd be happy to answer questions.
We have a lot of plans for improving the look of the DI, and Max has it on his schedule to address, as soon as higher priority tasks are done. He has been neck deep in engine optimization tasks for a long time, as I think we can all agree that is top priority. Every once in a while he takes a break to do some smaller tasks, like bloom, which can be added to the game much more easily. Doing a fully realized version of the final DI is a much more complicated task, and requires a lot of time and thought, not to mention the fact that, at this stage, it would likely add to the performance problems that we are trying to deal with.
On top of that, there are still design aspects that we want to test out and play with, before spending too much time on the final look. The next step, and something which is being worked on currently, is getting the pustules and vine approach to creating and spreading DI working in the game, so that we can test that out.
I would love to have a more visually pleasing version of DI in the game, since it does make it hard to take screenshots and make trailers and such, with the issues of the decals stretching on vertical surfaces. But, for the purposes of gameplay, the decals work, therefore, its more important to get the other missing features in first. So, I'm sorry that we can't give a time estimate for when we can get to this, but rest assured that the final implementation of the DI will look much much better then the current stand in version that is in there, and will be done before we release 1.0
--Cory
A pretty yet unplayable game is an unplayable game.
then EXO,onos,jetpack and stuff (cause they have a real function and you can test gameplay with them AND look pretty)
then "real" Di... (and i dunno.. the current one is kinda memorable <3)
I definitely prefer DI. It's easy to abbreviate, the word infestation is easy to connect into the cheesy goo on the map, both for NS veterans and new players. Croach doesn't really connect well and it's going to be confused with crouching and insults revolving around a certain body part probably.
I think DI also has a way better pronounciation for any kind of unoptimal mic communication. Croach is going to sound like a garble and have a few dozen different pronounciations on European servers at least. Meanwhile DI and Infestation both have a pretty distinct sound even with accents and mispronounciations, I think.
Infestation especially is pretty good word in general. "Infest that!" sounds a lot more informative for a newcomer than "Croach that!". The dynamic part can go if necessary, but I'd still prefer to have some descriptive word in front of the infestation so that the word can be abbreviated into 2 letters easily.
I have seen the devs use Croach in their replies on the forum. Does that mean its official? I dont know but I like it.
Lol. Anyway...
I will not be using Croach, its an unnecessary and confusing change. Don't change what isn't broken, plus infestation and DI is pretty much set-in-stone. So yeah, no Croach for me.
I will not be using Croach, its an unnecessary and confusing change. Don't change what isn't broken, plus infestation and DI is pretty much set-in-stone. So yeah, no Croach for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya you can think that (I still use infestation) but the game is not finished either. :3 Maybe Blizzard used "Infestation" up until the part where they came out with "Creep". Lets see where this creativity gets UWE? We still have people calling it Infestation so if some of their ideas don't work we still have something to fall back on.
Yeah, then again Cory used DI in his response in this very thread...
No idea really.
When NS1 was popular, I had played it a bit, but I was too busy with TFC and CS to invest time into it so it largly went unnoticed, the DI video completely changed that.
NS2 is shaping up to be an amazing game in its own right, but personally I won't be completely satisfied until I see DI similar to what was shown in that original video. I know it's a little irrational, but I have this vision of the game where the entire map and playing field starts off looking one way and then, depending on the successes of the alien team, completely changes to look vastly different.
I kind of got a fix with the recent addition of the power nodes, for sure. :)
he's specifically talking about the technical feature and not what it's called in the game's fiction. that's an important distinction that many are missing.
I can agree sometimes I may come across in the wrong way. Although without trying to incur any offence I ask you, is there ever anything you've ever bought that you've been dis-satisfied with? From someone you trust?
Possibly I look at the whole process with too much of a business focus rather than a creative process?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113743" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113743</a>
It's amazing how easily people can derail others and their own threads.
DI would be nice to see, but I would rather see these 'silly' optimizations being churned out if it means allowing the game development to progress. DI just isn't ready yet so I just get used to seeing ugly green, knowing that right now realtime DI morphing would probably break half the game somehow.
Possibly I look at the whole process with too much of a business focus rather than a creative process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd have gotten your refund and moved on to more lucrative and/or productive things by now if a business-minded-perspective was your crime.
No it wasn't. That was the trailer. DI was a <i>tech demo</i>.
Thal wtfpwned Crotch. Croak. Croach. Whatever. It is Infestation so lets call it that.
Thanks for stopping by :-)
/thread
1. Poor scalability
DI doesn't scale very well with map size. In particular, it spreads too fast for rockdown and too slow for summit. Tram seems pretty close to the right speed (or maybe a bit on the fast side). Not sure this is the best method, but having the DI spread speed and radius as a ratio to map size might work (though it'd be a bit confusing for new comms).
2. Needing to micromanage DI spread
I frequently find myself having to micromanage DI spread to ensure that a) I don't put a DI patch too far away from another and b) to link them to the desired spots. Pustules will help with a), but I still see quite a bit of micromanagement required. While this works in pure RTSs (think SC1/2 creep spread), it kind of detracts from NS2 gameplay. In particular, I'd like some way to waypoint DI spread to the desired location (e.g. from alien start to crevice or generator on summit) such that it does it automatically.
3. Hive DI loss bug
Ok, this is just a bug, but its a pretty big one for DI. Basically, if a flamethrower destroys the DI directly under the hive, it permanently cuts all DI connections to that hive (such that the hive needs to be rebuilt before you can connect any DI to it again). This hasn't been a terribly large problem, since marines don't flamethrowers close enough to hives anymore, but it will get much bigger once the balance improves.
Possibly I look at the whole process with too much of a business focus rather than a creative process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get a refund if your dissatisfied then and stop QQing on the forums. It's getting tiring.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cory a very easy fix to this problem in the meantime is doing a tri-planner projection instead of planner for the decals.. It shouldn't be to hard to do.. It will at least get rid of the yucky stretching...