Back to zex's original argument: that someone with a 'rocky financial history' is not qualified to give a talk to a paying audience about business management.
Plenty of people have had rocky financial histories but that doesn't mean they aren't qualified to advise on business. <a href="http://www.peterjones.tv/index.cfm?fuseaction=PeterJones.About_Me" target="_blank">Peter Jones</a>' net worth in 2009 is estimated to be £220 million, yet earlier in his life his IT company went bankrupt. He had to sell everything he owned and rebuild his business interests from scratch. He is deemed so unqualified to advise on business that not only does he assess and give feedback to start-ups looking for investment as a member of the <i>Dragons' Den</i> in the UK, he has also founded a national academy, complete with government endorsement and funding, to encourage and enable business entrepreneurs in his home country.
I haven't heard Zex say Charlie isn't qualified, he said he's not comfortable with the title given there's little background to back it. At least that's how I'm reading it. Honestly, let's just settle down.
<!--quoteo(post=1835744:date=Mar 3 2011, 06:39 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 3 2011, 06:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE is really quite similar to Valve circa 1997. The biggest difference is that UWE is trying to pioneer an indie method of financing via its community and truly making its game development process public, warts and all. I certainly appreciate their efforts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed, thats the point. Especially the "financing via its community" part. That truly is the subject where Mr. Cleveland can hold seminars on ;-)
<!--quoteo(post=1836227:date=Mar 6 2011, 08:39 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Mar 6 2011, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back to zex's original argument: that someone with a 'rocky financial history' is not qualified to give a talk to a paying audience about business management.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey "crispy" it might be a good idea for you to post something like "I must have misread, I apologize if I misinterpreted" since I never said anything like that. I look forward to reading yet another apology from yet another ESL poster.
Who cares whether or not you said he's "not qualified"? That's just semantics. The fact is you <b>implied</b> the same thing. <!--quoteo(post=1835712:date=Mar 3 2011, 09:30 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Mar 3 2011, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"master's degree in business administration,"
To be perfectly frank I don't know how to feel about this... it seems kind of rich for this to be the title of a talk to professional game developers and CEOs, considering UW's financial history.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1835722:date=Mar 3 2011, 10:24 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Mar 3 2011, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A game company's "rocky financial history" is relevant when they purport to give other professionals who have paid a significant sum of money to attend GDC a "master's degree in one hour" in running a game development business. Seriously. In fact I can't think of anything which is more relevant to that particular subject than... the speaker's history of running a game development business. Seriously.
I'm not saying "Flayra" has no useful information to provide, I'm saying the the title of the talk would strike me as somewhat hubristic even disregarding his company's "rocky financial history."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, you're not really saying he shouldn't have given the talk, but you do question his qualification, or at least criticise the unfounded arrogance of the title - or at least imply as much. You have a problem with the title because it seems like... false advertising, for lack of a better term. Do you refute this? Honestly, you're just being oversensitive about it. That's like taking issue with Lynx because it <b>didn't</b> make hundreds of beautiful women want to get in your pants.
<!--quoteo(post=1836243:date=Mar 6 2011, 10:25 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Mar 6 2011, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey "crispy" it might be a good idea for you to post something like "I must have misread, I apologize if I misinterpreted" since I never said anything like that. I look forward to reading yet another apology from yet another ESL poster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This comment is hilariously hypocritical considering 1) I have nothing to do with ESL so you are very misinformed and 2) your original point clearly demonstrates that you misinterpreted the tone of the talk's title in the first place. Maybe you should apologise to UWE? Or maybe we should refrain from demanding apologies like patronising pseudo-parental figures.
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looking forward to it.
Congrats on making full use of such an opportunity. Not so bad for 10 years or so of game developing 'on your own', just out of curiosity, how long have you been going full time with this for? As I'm sure your experience will have helped many people and may inspire others to take the route and path you did.
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please do this, I am considering doing an MBA in a few years so that i have had time to gain experience to get the best out of it. :D
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is nice to hear what stuff works in practice and what doesn't, which I imagine you have plenty of experience with.
Did it go well at the conference? 1000 people is pretty big attendance.
<!--quoteo(post=1836290:date=Mar 7 2011, 09:40 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Mar 7 2011, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836290"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who cares whether or not you said he's "not qualified"? That's just semantics. The fact is you <b>implied</b> the same thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact is I implied no such thing, it's just that oversensitive fanbois are having a knee-jerk allergic reaction to percieved criticism (no matter how trivial) and are intentionally misinterpreting what I wrote in order to justify flaming/trolling. If you want to call correct interpretation of the english language "semantics" I have no problem with that.
<!--quoteo(post=1836290:date=Mar 7 2011, 09:40 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Mar 7 2011, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836290"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have a problem with the title because it seems like... false advertising, for lack of a better term. Do you refute this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, for <!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->don't evade the swear filter<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> sake, I don't refute the statement "you have a problem with the TITLE" because that's what I've been saying all along, and you guys for some reason are not capable of understanding that critiquing THE TITLE has nothing whatsoever to do with critiquing anyone's qualification to give a lecture, or critiquing the content of the lecture, or critiquing UW's business practices, or anything other than THE TITLE. Now please get over the fact that someone had a different opinion and move on with your life.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
Okay, so can we call this argument finished? Let's everyone put our egos away and let people who actually want to discuss the talk itself have their turn.
Unfortunately right now unless you actually have or had a GDC event pass recently, you can't access this content as it's members only. From what I understand though, it may be purchasable in the future.
Thank you very much for you Flayra and GDC Vault about alll this good presentation.
PS: I recommend you insert a title to the top of all slides (Master Layout) including your company name, title of presentation, and presenter name, and a numbers like (3 of 20). So If someone see one of this slides this may be helpfull to readers.
I really liked the presentation it was very good!! I appreciate your company so much more now.. so humble and passionate about what you do! You guys will do great. This community does really have a lot of passionate fans that want you to succeed as much as you do!
Awesome talk Charlie, was very interesting and I've to say you have got some guts there :) I'm sure everybody is happy to work with you Charlie, keep up the good work and that synergy you guys have.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
That was a very inspiring talk, it gave me a great insight on my personal projects, the way I am going currently to realize them, and how I have to move forward. The talk went very close to my beliefs on how business should be handled, it is a great gift you have given us to put it in simple words and diagrams.
Flayra mentions he doesn't know if he would have done it all over again if he had to make the same decisions again today. On the topic of choosing to make the Spark engine, I wonder what he and Max think of the new Unreal engine; it is sort of competition to Spark, although maybe not direct competition, because it's aimed more at indies rather than gigantaur studios. In fact it may be even more relevant to the game industry, the way things seem to be taking shape in the dichotomy between big-$$$$ and big-creativity.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Fantastic talk Charlie; very interesting and a lot of what you've said resonates with me.
You're probably happy you have this company now though and that you have your own engine/game/tools IP; hopefully you can end up selling the engine for some big bucks in licensing too so it should pay for itself in the future:)
Comments
Plenty of people have had rocky financial histories but that doesn't mean they aren't qualified to advise on business. <a href="http://www.peterjones.tv/index.cfm?fuseaction=PeterJones.About_Me" target="_blank">Peter Jones</a>' net worth in 2009 is estimated to be £220 million, yet earlier in his life his IT company went bankrupt. He had to sell everything he owned and rebuild his business interests from scratch. He is deemed so unqualified to advise on business that not only does he assess and give feedback to start-ups looking for investment as a member of the <i>Dragons' Den</i> in the UK, he has also founded a national academy, complete with government endorsement and funding, to encourage and enable business entrepreneurs in his home country.
Agreed, thats the point. Especially the "financing via its community" part. That truly is the subject where Mr. Cleveland can hold seminars on ;-)
Hey "crispy" it might be a good idea for you to post something like "I must have misread, I apologize if I misinterpreted" since I never said anything like that. I look forward to reading yet another apology from yet another ESL poster.
<!--quoteo(post=1835712:date=Mar 3 2011, 09:30 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Mar 3 2011, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"master's degree in business administration,"
To be perfectly frank I don't know how to feel about this... it seems kind of rich for this to be the title of a talk to professional game developers and CEOs, considering UW's financial history.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1835722:date=Mar 3 2011, 10:24 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Mar 3 2011, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A game company's "rocky financial history" is relevant when they purport to give other professionals who have paid a significant sum of money to attend GDC a "master's degree in one hour" in running a game development business. Seriously. In fact I can't think of anything which is more relevant to that particular subject than... the speaker's history of running a game development business. Seriously.
I'm not saying "Flayra" has no useful information to provide, I'm saying the the title of the talk would strike me as somewhat hubristic even disregarding his company's "rocky financial history."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, you're not really saying he shouldn't have given the talk, but you do question his qualification, or at least criticise the unfounded arrogance of the title - or at least imply as much. You have a problem with the title because it seems like... false advertising, for lack of a better term. Do you refute this?
Honestly, you're just being oversensitive about it. That's like taking issue with Lynx because it <b>didn't</b> make hundreds of beautiful women want to get in your pants.
This is like a party where a fight broke out.
Do you guys go back to the party and shrug it off because hey keeping the party going is way better
or are you gonna stand around yelling at each other until the cops come and break up the party.
whatever there was a fight
it is over
punch is the corner
we are gonna order more pizza because someone puked on the ...
well we are gonna order more...pony up.
"Fun" thread...but thanks Cory!
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie
"Fun" thread...but thanks Cory!
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looking forward to it.
Congrats on making full use of such an opportunity. Not so bad for 10 years or so of game developing 'on your own', just out of curiosity, how long have you been going full time with this for? As I'm sure your experience will have helped many people and may inspire others to take the route and path you did.
"Fun" thread...but thanks Cory!
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please do this, I am considering doing an MBA in a few years so that i have had time to gain experience to get the best out of it. :D
"Fun" thread...but thanks Cory!
I don't purport to know more than anyone else. This talk was just describing my experiences and what I've learned in the hope that it helps or inspires other people to try to create their dreams. It turned out there were close to 1,000 people there, which was frightening to say the least. It all worked out fine though and I'm glad I did it.
Even though the talk was recorded, I'm not sure if it will be made public. I will probably give it again and put it online at videogamemba.com this week to make sure anyone that wants to can watch it.
-Charlie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is nice to hear what stuff works in practice and what doesn't, which I imagine you have plenty of experience with.
Did it go well at the conference? 1000 people is pretty big attendance.
Also, Crispy: ESL = English as a Second Language
The fact is I implied no such thing, it's just that oversensitive fanbois are having a knee-jerk allergic reaction to percieved criticism (no matter how trivial) and are intentionally misinterpreting what I wrote in order to justify flaming/trolling. If you want to call correct interpretation of the english language "semantics" I have no problem with that.
<!--quoteo(post=1836290:date=Mar 7 2011, 09:40 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Mar 7 2011, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836290"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have a problem with the title because it seems like... false advertising, for lack of a better term. Do you refute this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, for <!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->don't evade the swear filter<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> sake, I don't refute the statement "you have a problem with the TITLE" because that's what I've been saying all along, and you guys for some reason are not capable of understanding that critiquing THE TITLE has nothing whatsoever to do with critiquing anyone's qualification to give a lecture, or critiquing the content of the lecture, or critiquing UW's business practices, or anything other than THE TITLE. Now please get over the fact that someone had a different opinion and move on with your life.
Sad face is sad :(
PS: I recommend you insert a title to the top of all slides (Master Layout) including your company name, title of presentation, and presenter name, and a numbers like (3 of 20). So If someone see one of this slides this may be helpfull to readers.
I'm sure everybody is happy to work with you Charlie, keep up the good work and that synergy you guys have.
You're probably happy you have this company now though and that you have your own engine/game/tools IP; hopefully you can end up selling the engine for some big bucks in licensing too so it should pay for itself in the future:)