I remember getting into some vents in tram as marine, ending up getting stuck trying to get in there. I ended up killing myself because i couldn't move, so yeah something needs to be adjusted. Either the vents themselves or marine models.
<!--quoteo(post=1829516:date=Feb 4 2011, 01:39 AM:name=Stakhanov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stakhanov @ Feb 4 2011, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Forget marines , fades can't even go through vents... they are skulk/lerk only at the moment.
Consider that marines can lock doors at will , aliens really need to retain some mobility advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
totally agreed. vents aren't labeled highlighted correctly on the minimaps either.
as for fades can't get into vents, its because current fade has such poor blink design, at current rate only way fade will ever get into the vent either by jumping into it without blink or someone giving him boost, lol. fade needs ns1 blink, but many here like seeing special effects of current blink which looks great but isn't practical in combat at all. Its largely the problem why fades end up chasing marines on foot to catch their target, since they cannot catch moving targets. (jumping directly certain places, such as vents or marines what made ns1 blink so amazing, it didn't have graphical effects but it was amazingly way better than the gimped current fade.)
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1829469:date=Feb 3 2011, 02:01 PM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Feb 3 2011, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's so true... especially the no one playing games longer than 3 months statement. I think it's also true that there are generally more gamers now (and games) and a huge majority go around just playing what's popular at that moment and not as much so what they like themselves.
What really does help though is that this game is being developed as a PC title supporting modding and its community. Modern day games are typically built in a way that keeps you hooked just long enough for the next title, big patch, or expansion pack in the series to release. Many of the companies themselves don't want you sticking to their old titles or they will no longer be making money off sales. This is probably why many games no longer encourage 3rd party modding since people will just start playing all the free mods that pop up instead of buying the next title. However, these are already well established companies that gain half their sales from the game's well known title and not so much from what the players heard from their friends about how great the game is. UWE doesn't quite have the luxury of the former so their approach needs to focus on the latter. When more people starting seeing how flexible modding this engine is, there will surely be entirely different titles having nothing to do with NS popping up using Spark. Those who want to sell their Spark creations can buy rights to the engine and sell their own Spark games effectively gaining more attention to the engine and the NS title as well. There will also be plenty word of mouth assuming this game stabilizes before the buzz starts going back down too much, but given the huge improvements in the last few patches I think things are beginning to fall in place at least in terms of performance. (garbage collection being fixed too and this was a pretty big issue, not to mention 162 is the first patch that I can still hop on the server browser and find an active game meaning not everyone stopped playing 3 days after the patch came out)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure which gamers your are talking about, but I regular play games for more than 3 months. The only time I generally stop playing a game (unless I'm playing it again out of nostalgia), is when a newer game with the same general mechanics or gameplay comes out.
<!--quoteo(post=1829539:date=Feb 3 2011, 10:48 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Feb 3 2011, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure which gamers your are talking about, but I regular play games for more than 3 months. The only time I generally stop playing a game (unless I'm playing it again out of nostalgia), is when a newer game with the same general mechanics or gameplay comes out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When it comes to mainstream titles unless they are subscription games most seem to follow that trend. Consoles are the worst for this. Because of the nature of NS I think many of the people on here are the ones looking to stick to games they can be playing for longer than a few months and not just chasing fads. I hadn't been referring to you, me, and many others here who are actually looking for a game to spend some time on.
I think the best way to do it is to allow marines to enter vents if they can reach them and the entrance is big enough for a man to crouch through. Specifically, Im thinking of hole in the grid-wall in west wing on Rockdown, as an example. Its not really a vent, but it is accessible to marines and looks big enough, so people tend to waste time trying to go through - including NS2HD in one video. After a decade of vent-crouching HL style, it does come naturally.
I imagine that <i>if</i> marines were able to crawl their way through the little passage in rockdown, they would be in a superior position to deal with skulks head on, but have a huge disadvantage in mobility when trying to escape or dealing with ranged aliens
<!--quoteo(post=1829457:date=Feb 3 2011, 09:03 PM:name=Slithers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slithers @ Feb 3 2011, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I lol'd when I read the cs bad guy post aswell.
Now a days, the hardcore players from quake, unreal tournament and cs players are getting shafted with a infestation of newbs that are destroying video games from the inside out. They wonder why nobody plays the game for more than 3 months now a days.
I wish companies would just fk off with supporting newbs and bring back the good old days, quick switch weapons, fast paced strategtic combat mixed with bunnyhopping and interesting gameplay.
Look at Duke Nukem 3D, the game was amazing, nothing made complete sense, but the feel the atomosphere and the ###### we could do made it epic. I just hope NS2 doesn't slip in to the newb realm and sell out to the masses of retards that are killing every game from the inside out now a days.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't tell if this is supposed to be ironic or not.
I'm pretty sure that crouched marines are meant to be fit inside vents, if they are able to get up there. So, that will probably need to be looked into. Also, crouching Fades are meant to be able to get into vents, as well, but currently you can't crouch blink. That is planned at some point as well.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"vents so small you have to crawl, you are very slow as marine in such a small vent
solution:
strap a rocket to your back for maximum mobility"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
am i the only one who has to laugh just thinking about this? skulk sized vents marines have to crawl on all fours through them..and as soon the marine commander researches jetpacks they turn into human torpedos?
edit: omg.. jet asissted belly slide for marines...
<!--quoteo(post=1829672:date=Feb 4 2011, 01:52 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Feb 4 2011, 01:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ok, im trying to sum this thread up...
am i the only one who has to laugh just thinking about this? skulk sized vents marines have to crawl on all fours through them..and as soon the marine commander researches jetpacks they turn into human torpedos?
edit: omg.. jet asissted belly slide for marines...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it worked in ns1. if they decide to make DI grow in vents then that could be used to slow down the human torpedos.
<!--quoteo(post=1829676:date=Feb 5 2011, 04:58 AM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Feb 5 2011, 04:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it worked in ns1. if they decide to make DI grow in vents then that could be used to slow down the human torpedos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nono.. in ns 1 it was more like a " grind with your helmet along the vent ceiling at high speed until you hit the next corner" i always wanted some spark effect when the helmets grinded against the metal of the vent
oh, and that silly crouch..kneel posture while doing it..
oh.wow.. i did not realize that ive just done my post nr. 4001.... ive just evolved into a dark sire.. like a pokemon
<!--quoteo(post=1829663:date=Feb 4 2011, 06:36 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 4 2011, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure that crouched marines are meant to be fit inside vents, if they are able to get up there. So, that will probably need to be looked into. Also, crouching Fades are meant to be able to get into vents, as well, but currently you can't crouch blink. That is planned at some point as well.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also gorges are too fat (tall) to go through the vent entrance/exit models most of the time.
We need a prone position. To bad +walk is now sprint, it could be used to modify crouching / +duck instead. (i allways have speed modifiers on shift and ducking on ctrl, so it'd be easy <i>for me</i>. duno about anyone else.)
I don't want marines being able to go into vents until the flamethrower stops going through walls. It would be absolute chaos if they were both in together!
<!--quoteo(post=1829640:date=Feb 4 2011, 01:00 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Feb 4 2011, 01:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't tell if this is supposed to be ironic or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
RamblemoeJoin Date: 2010-12-21Member: 75812Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Retired Community Developer
I've always found the Half Life engine based games to be retarded when it comes to the fact that you can crouch and fit into a vent.. Have you ever seen anyone do that irl? No, they'd have to prone to fit. Imo, if you're gonna have marines in small vents I do think you have to implement a prone so that they feel the pain of beeing in a confined space. Since moving backwards is at 40% of forward speed, would it really make sense to be able to move unhindered in vents? Fades also looks like their a bit large to fin in a small air duct.
Why copy a bad/unrealistic feature of the Half Life based games into NS2/Spark?
<!--quoteo(post=1829768:date=Feb 5 2011, 01:59 AM:name=Ramblemoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ramblemoe @ Feb 5 2011, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why copy a bad/unrealistic feature of the Half Life based games into NS2/Spark?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because its game! we can't always go by its unrealistic excuse for something, and I see a lot of that usually. half life engine is good, it may not be what developers here want out of the engine but it is good engine nonetheless. I'm sure whenever half life 3 come out, it will even have better engine, so who knows whats the future holds.
<!--quoteo(post=1829663:date=Feb 4 2011, 06:36 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 4 2011, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure that crouched marines are meant to be fit inside vents, if they are able to get up there. So, that will probably need to be looked into. Also, crouching Fades are meant to be able to get into vents, as well, but currently you can't crouch blink. That is planned at some point as well.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember early on in NS2's development the idea of alien only vents, with access for the vents nearer alien areas to advantage them to move from room to room.
It's clear in the map overview of what I can only guess is Mineshaft in the props folder and from tram itself, that the vents are further away from the marine spawn and enter the main hive; won't the idea of letting marines crouch in to these give them too big an advantage? I mean, we could get the return of NS1 marine vent camping all exits again, with no way out for aliens to try and work out behind marines when surrounded on their last hive.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
there are plenty of vents that have a vertical section, which means marines would only be able to get to a certain point before they are stuck or have to turn around to exit
<!--quoteo(post=1829768:date=Feb 5 2011, 02:59 AM:name=Ramblemoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ramblemoe @ Feb 5 2011, 02:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've always found the Half Life engine based games to be retarded when it comes to the fact that you can crouch and fit into a vent.. Have you ever seen anyone do that irl?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. Even did it myself (draw the short straw and had to clean and do maintenance). Depends on the kind of ventilation and for what it is used.
The majority of Half-Life and NS vents were literally visually too small for the type of crouching used RobB. Sure you could prone it, but I'd like to see you crouch through those vents when seemingly; your head actually goes through the top.
Vents to me seemed like a racial-specific shortcut. Most of the battlefield was dominated by the heavier classes (including marines), while Lerks and Skulks could... <i>lurk and skulk</i> in maintenance vents. Arguing that everyone should fit inside because "it isn't fair" or "it would be boring" doesn't exactly hold water. Of course there will be bigger vents, but there should always be options for classes to make use of their own size and mobility.
<!--quoteo(post=1829841:date=Feb 5 2011, 12:02 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 5 2011, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The majority of Half-Life and NS vents were literally visually too small for the type of crouching used RobB. Sure you could prone it, but I'd like to see you crouch through those vents when seemingly; your head actually goes through the top.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a problem with mapping geometry and the colission box not matching the model.
<!--quoteo(post=1829663:date=Feb 4 2011, 07:36 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 4 2011, 07:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure that crouched marines are meant to be fit inside vents, if they are able to get up there. So, that will probably need to be looked into. Also, crouching Fades are meant to be able to get into vents, as well, but currently you can't crouch blink. That is planned at some point as well.
It might be interesting to use a vent crawling system like in dead space. It would add a feeling of suspense and entrapment. Just not sure how looking and shooting backwards would work.
I think it is worth having a discussion about though.
<!--quoteo(post=1830183:date=Feb 7 2011, 06:39 PM:name=l3lessed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l3lessed @ Feb 7 2011, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just not sure how looking and shooting backwards would work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
simple: you cantshoot backward, thats the risk of doing something stupid like crawling around in vents. also, discharging any kind of weapon inside such a small vent is a very bad idea, marines have to use switchaxe and teeth only
<!--quoteo(post=1829949:date=Feb 6 2011, 10:48 AM:name=eisiger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eisiger @ Feb 6 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vents to me seemed like a racial-specific shortcut.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
.. ouch, dont say racial, its a species specific shortcut, not a "no black/yellow/red/brown peoples alowed" shortcut
Comments
Consider that marines can lock doors at will , aliens really need to retain some mobility advantage.
Consider that marines can lock doors at will , aliens really need to retain some mobility advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
totally agreed. vents aren't labeled highlighted correctly on the minimaps either.
as for fades can't get into vents, its because current fade has such poor blink design, at current rate only way fade will ever get into the vent either by jumping into it without blink or someone giving him boost, lol.
fade needs ns1 blink, but many here like seeing special effects of current blink which looks great but isn't practical in combat at all. Its largely the problem why fades end up chasing marines on foot to catch their target, since they cannot catch moving targets. (jumping directly certain places, such as vents or marines what made ns1 blink so amazing, it didn't have graphical effects but it was amazingly way better than the gimped current fade.)
What really does help though is that this game is being developed as a PC title supporting modding and its community. Modern day games are typically built in a way that keeps you hooked just long enough for the next title, big patch, or expansion pack in the series to release. Many of the companies themselves don't want you sticking to their old titles or they will no longer be making money off sales. This is probably why many games no longer encourage 3rd party modding since people will just start playing all the free mods that pop up instead of buying the next title. However, these are already well established companies that gain half their sales from the game's well known title and not so much from what the players heard from their friends about how great the game is. UWE doesn't quite have the luxury of the former so their approach needs to focus on the latter. When more people starting seeing how flexible modding this engine is, there will surely be entirely different titles having nothing to do with NS popping up using Spark. Those who want to sell their Spark creations can buy rights to the engine and sell their own Spark games effectively gaining more attention to the engine and the NS title as well. There will also be plenty word of mouth assuming this game stabilizes before the buzz starts going back down too much, but given the huge improvements in the last few patches I think things are beginning to fall in place at least in terms of performance. (garbage collection being fixed too and this was a pretty big issue, not to mention 162 is the first patch that I can still hop on the server browser and find an active game meaning not everyone stopped playing 3 days after the patch came out)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure which gamers your are talking about, but I regular play games for more than 3 months. The only time I generally stop playing a game (unless I'm playing it again out of nostalgia), is when a newer game with the same general mechanics or gameplay comes out.
When it comes to mainstream titles unless they are subscription games most seem to follow that trend. Consoles are the worst for this. Because of the nature of NS I think many of the people on here are the ones looking to stick to games they can be playing for longer than a few months and not just chasing fads. I hadn't been referring to you, me, and many others here who are actually looking for a game to spend some time on.
Specifically, Im thinking of hole in the grid-wall in west wing on Rockdown, as an example. Its not really a vent, but it is accessible to marines and looks big enough, so people tend to waste time trying to go through - including NS2HD in one video. After a decade of vent-crouching HL style, it does come naturally.
I imagine that <i>if</i> marines were able to crawl their way through the little passage in rockdown, they would be in a superior position to deal with skulks head on, but have a huge disadvantage in mobility when trying to escape or dealing with ranged aliens
Now a days, the hardcore players from quake, unreal tournament and cs players are getting shafted with a infestation of newbs that are destroying video games from the inside out. They wonder why nobody plays the game for more than 3 months now a days.
I wish companies would just fk off with supporting newbs and bring back the good old days, quick switch weapons, fast paced strategtic combat mixed with bunnyhopping and interesting gameplay.
Look at Duke Nukem 3D, the game was amazing, nothing made complete sense, but the feel the atomosphere and the ###### we could do made it epic. I just hope NS2 doesn't slip in to the newb realm and sell out to the masses of retards that are killing every game from the inside out now a days.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't tell if this is supposed to be ironic or not.
--Cory
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"vents so small you have to crawl, you are very slow as marine in such a small vent
solution:
strap a rocket to your back for maximum mobility"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
am i the only one who has to laugh just thinking about this? skulk sized vents marines have to crawl on all fours through them..and as soon the marine commander researches jetpacks they turn into human torpedos?
edit: omg.. jet asissted belly slide for marines...
am i the only one who has to laugh just thinking about this? skulk sized vents marines have to crawl on all fours through them..and as soon the marine commander researches jetpacks they turn into human torpedos?
edit: omg.. jet asissted belly slide for marines...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it worked in ns1. if they decide to make DI grow in vents then that could be used to slow down the human torpedos.
nono.. in ns 1 it was more like a " grind with your helmet along the vent ceiling at high speed until you hit the next corner"
i always wanted some spark effect when the helmets grinded against the metal of the vent
oh, and that silly crouch..kneel posture while doing it..
oh.wow.. i did not realize that ive just done my post nr. 4001.... ive just evolved into a dark sire.. like a pokemon
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also gorges are too fat (tall) to go through the vent entrance/exit models most of the time.
You mad bro?
fact that you can crouch and fit into a vent.. Have you ever seen anyone do that irl?
No, they'd have to prone to fit. Imo, if you're gonna have marines in small vents I do think
you have to implement a prone so that they feel the pain of beeing in a confined space.
Since moving backwards is at 40% of forward speed, would it really make sense to be able to
move unhindered in vents? Fades also looks like their a bit large to fin in a small air duct.
Why copy a bad/unrealistic feature of the Half Life based games into NS2/Spark?
because its game! we can't always go by its unrealistic excuse for something, and I see a lot of that usually. half life engine is good, it may not be what developers here want out of the engine but it is good engine nonetheless. I'm sure whenever half life 3 come out, it will even have better engine, so who knows whats the future holds.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember early on in NS2's development the idea of alien only vents, with access for the vents nearer alien areas to advantage them to move from room to room.
It's clear in the map overview of what I can only guess is Mineshaft in the props folder and from tram itself, that the vents are further away from the marine spawn and enter the main hive; won't the idea of letting marines crouch in to these give them too big an advantage? I mean, we could get the return of NS1 marine vent camping all exits again, with no way out for aliens to try and work out behind marines when surrounded on their last hive.
So we return to my original problem =]
fact that you can crouch and fit into a vent.. Have you ever seen anyone do that irl?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Even did it myself (draw the short straw and had to clean and do maintenance). Depends on the kind of ventilation and for what it is used.
That's a problem with mapping geometry and the colission box not matching the model.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you, that's what I wanted to hear. =)
I think it is worth having a discussion about though.
simple: you cantshoot backward, thats the risk of doing something stupid like crawling around in vents.
also, discharging any kind of weapon inside such a small vent is a very bad idea, marines have to use switchaxe and teeth only
<!--quoteo(post=1829949:date=Feb 6 2011, 10:48 AM:name=eisiger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eisiger @ Feb 6 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vents to me seemed like a racial-specific shortcut.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
.. ouch, dont say racial, its a species specific shortcut, not a "no black/yellow/red/brown peoples alowed" shortcut