Marines in vents
NurEinMensch
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Comments
There way to much CS Player in NS2!
Think about the balance, aliens should hide in vents, but marines not, why should they?
Oh i see it in my mind, the whole marine team hides in vents...exciting.
Its good marines doesn't fit into vents, aliens have to hide and regenerate there, marines get medpacks and ammopacks, no need for hiding!
Think about the balance, aliens should hide in vents, but marines not, why should they?
Oh i see it in my mind, the whole marine team hides in vents...exciting.
Its good marines doesn't fit into vents, aliens have to hide and regenerate there, marines get medpacks and ammopacks, no need for hiding!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now CS players are the bad guys? Always thought WoW had taken that place. This world is changing to rapidly for me as it seems...
btt:
It depends how mappers use them. Marines are easy prey (lerk gas e.g.) in vents for most classes, even Skulks if they can attack from behind. So I don't see much of a problem here. And if the whole Marine team hides in vents, who is going to defend the base and ressource points?
Think about the balance, aliens should hide in vents, but marines not, why should they?
Oh i see it in my mind, the whole marine team hides in vents...exciting.
Its good marines doesn't fit into vents, aliens have to hide and regenerate there, marines get medpacks and ammopacks, no need for hiding!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is not very convincing. Aliens don't need exclusive places to regenerate.
Think about the balance, aliens should hide in vents, but marines not, why should they?
Oh i see it in my mind, the whole marine team hides in vents...exciting.
Its good marines doesn't fit into vents, aliens have to hide and regenerate there, marines get medpacks and ammopacks, no need for hiding!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did u ever play ns1? Chasing lerks in vents or destroying strategic chambers was a vital aspect in most games. It also was one of the reasons to research jp instead of ha. Mobility ftw..
"whole marine team hiding in the vents".. Great idea, your arguments rock
I have played and enjoyed different platforms and games for different reasons. How you play a game is restricted by what you can do in it, and it is not as if you can define every gamer by 'this guy plays CS, this guy plays NS' because any gamer I know plays all sorts of games.
There are a couple of things that made NS levels more interesting (in my mind) than NS2 at the moment.
1. There is no change in ground level, and flat levels are a little boring (imo). Changes in height really add a feeling of space, and a dynamic fighting environment.
2. The spaces within NS were more dynamic, where as (more Tram than Rockdown) NS2 feels like a lot of connected boxes.
3. The change from 'clostrophobic' to 'open' areas in NS1 was more apparent, and you felt it more. (Probably to do with corridors between rooms).
4. There was a feeling of 'emptiness' in the spawnling mass of NS1 levels. You felt like you were in the middle of space.
I don't think there is 'depth' or 'context' which levels like Tram are missing. You need windows viewing out onto the world in which the level inhabits. Areas that are inaccessible that make the player think 'there is something beyond, or as I mentioned in another thread - opening tutorials like the L4D series that not only teach you what to do (in the basics) but add story and context.
I think small spaces that are 'vent' like or just 'bigger' vents (accessible by ladders) would be an interesting addition. But overall I feel that as the aliens are all about melee, the last thing you want is to make that accessible to the marine team.
Not only because the jetpackers in NS1 looked rediculous, flying into walls at 40mph and bumping off the ceiling. I would rather see them at a raised height from the ground for the most part (out of range of skulks) and be able to move round the map faster. The ability to fly up to ceiling would be good, but not often. Maybe to get away from an Onos or Fade. But smoothly, not like an enraged fly that can't find its way out of a window.
I'd like to see a good usage of larger vents completely accessible by marines as well (if you call crawling accessible) and small vents for the Skulks and Lerks... Also what is this I've read about Fades being able to go inside vents, he has no business there dammit :P
I'd like to see a good usage of larger vents completely accessible by marines as well (if you call crawling accessible) and small vents for the Skulks and Lerks... Also what is this I've read about Fades being able to go inside vents, he has no business there dammit :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually its the opposite, the Wiki info had a typo. They can shoot through walls, it is indeed an energy weapon like first time round.. but on wheels!
You mean like a corridor?
Afaik chambers aren't supposed to be built in vents in ns2 !?
..which is sad, imho, since it was a nice thing to do in ns1 (and I don't mean griefing at the end of the round by prolonging games with a dc hideout)
..which is sad, imho, since it was a nice thing to do in ns1 (and I don't mean griefing at the end of the round by prolonging games with a dc hideout)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh, I thought it was a pretty unique way of combining the 3D FPS and RTS elements. That's exactly what I'd see as using the strengths and possibilities of the otherwise tricky genre.
As for vents in general, I'd really like to avoid all these "strictly no" elements. Best games are designed so that there aren't that many totally shut down gameplay elements, just elements that are less viable in most cases. As for vents that means that marines shouldn't generally benefit from going into vents. Creative and/or experienced players can then figure out when and how it's a good idea to break the general rule.
The only one who say that is you and this is terrible...<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/style_images/tsa/folder_post_icons/icon8.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
i don't say any bad word about cs or ns player.
CS players are humans like marines, now get it?
The most people are for marines and want more and more specials for them, just stupid, there already overpowered.
Tell me one good reason why marines should go into vents.
1. Vents are not build for humans (what a surprise!!111oneone)
2. What should marines do in vents? Aliens are close combat units.
3. The marines have grenade launcher to catch lerks
4. Vents are made for aliens not for marines
5. more reasons think by yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1829399:date=Feb 3 2011, 04:18 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 3 2011, 04:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. There is no change in ground level, and flat levels are a little boring (imo). Changes in height really add a feeling of space, and a dynamic fighting environment.
2. The spaces within NS were more dynamic, where as (more Tram than Rockdown) NS2 feels like a lot of connected boxes.
3. The change from 'clostrophobic' to 'open' areas in NS1 was more apparent, and you felt it more. (Probably to do with corridors between rooms).
4. There was a feeling of 'emptiness' in the spawnling mass of NS1 levels. You felt like you were in the middle of space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. - 4. agree
1. There is no change in ground level, and flat levels are a little boring (imo). Changes in height really add a feeling of space, and a dynamic fighting environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep in mind that, the only official NS2 release map is Tram. And that map revolves around the Tram tunnel, which dictates that the ground level remains relatively flat throughout the map. However, the upcoming Mineshaft map has quite a lot of elevation changes, and the other maps being worked on have more changes in height, as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1829399:date=Feb 3 2011, 03:18 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 3 2011, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. There was a feeling of 'emptiness' in the spawnling mass of NS1 levels. You felt like you were in the middle of space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Admittedly this first batch of maps has focused on the Refinery facility theme, which is based on the planet surface. But post v1.0 release we have plans for some spaceship/space station maps, to get NS2 back out into space once again.
<!--quoteo(post=1829399:date=Feb 3 2011, 03:18 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Feb 3 2011, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think there is 'depth' or 'context' which levels like Tram are missing. You need windows viewing out onto the world in which the level inhabits. Areas that are inaccessible that make the player think 'there is something beyond<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um...I'm pretty sure Tram has exactly that. Windows viewing out onto the world in which the level inhabits. So not sure I understand where you are going here. One of our other maps has even more of this sort of thing, and even includes some outdoor areas (think Hera's landing pad)
--Cory
In a way, yeah. I'd appreciate if the mapper didn't have to resort into totally oversized vents and ridiculously accessible entrances to allow marines to move in them though.
You thought about opening that side up at all by perhaps moving the double res nodes to be more central, or moving one of the tech nodes over to that side along with central? The east side of the map seems to go quite unlooked a lot of the time, unless perhaps it is by a MAC/Drifter or the occasional marine or skulk.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's going to notice it once the shutters open. Any plans for alien planet marine outposts or even caves down the line? Maybe one of those updates that get people psyched about the game again way past release?
Onos charging through a jungle plz kthx
also, i miss hera. hera was one of my favorite maps.
also, i miss hera. hera was one of my favorite maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When Hera had double res nodes, it was epic. It's still awesome though!
btt:
It depends how mappers use them. Marines are easy prey (lerk gas e.g.) in vents for most classes, even Skulks if they can attack from behind. So I don't see much of a problem here. And if the whole Marine team hides in vents, who is going to defend the base and ressource points?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I lol'd when I read the cs bad guy post aswell.
Now a days, the hardcore players from quake, unreal tournament and cs players are getting shafted with a infestation of newbs that are destroying video games from the inside out. They wonder why nobody plays the game for more than 3 months now a days.
I wish companies would just fk off with supporting newbs and bring back the good old days, quick switch weapons, fast paced strategtic combat mixed with bunnyhopping and interesting gameplay.
Look at Duke Nukem 3D, the game was amazing, nothing made complete sense, but the feel the atomosphere and the ###### we could do made it epic. I just hope NS2 doesn't slip in to the newb realm and sell out to the masses of retards that are killing every game from the inside out now a days.
There's a window in Operations, and also windows in marine start.
<!--quoteo(post=1829449:date=Feb 3 2011, 08:16 PM:name=AaronEl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AaronEl @ Feb 3 2011, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1829449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any plans for alien planet marine outposts or even caves down the line? M<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the new Mineshaft map has some pretty cavey parts.
--Cory
It's so true... especially the no one playing games longer than 3 months statement. I think it's also true that there are generally more gamers now (and games) and a huge majority go around just playing what's popular at that moment and not as much so what they like themselves.
What really does help though is that this game is being developed as a PC title supporting modding and its community. Modern day games are typically built in a way that keeps you hooked just long enough for the next title, big patch, or expansion pack in the series to release. Many of the companies themselves don't want you sticking to their old titles or they will no longer be making money off sales. This is probably why many games no longer encourage 3rd party modding since people will just start playing all the free mods that pop up instead of buying the next title. However, these are already well established companies that gain half their sales from the game's well known title and not so much from what the players heard from their friends about how great the game is. UWE doesn't quite have the luxury of the former so their approach needs to focus on the latter. When more people starting seeing how flexible modding this engine is, there will surely be entirely different titles having nothing to do with NS popping up using Spark. Those who want to sell their Spark creations can buy rights to the engine and sell their own Spark games effectively gaining more attention to the engine and the NS title as well. There will also be plenty word of mouth assuming this game stabilizes before the buzz starts going back down too much, but given the huge improvements in the last few patches I think things are beginning to fall in place at least in terms of performance. (garbage collection being fixed too and this was a pretty big issue, not to mention 162 is the first patch that I can still hop on the server browser and find an active game meaning not everyone stopped playing 3 days after the patch came out)
Rather, Aliens get access to vents for the initial part of the game. But eventually Marines can access them with enough mobility (JPs). Either that or they do the long crouch-crawl.
That being said, if we start restricting only certain vents to Aliens (up to the mappers) then there had better be very good visual indicators of which are Marine versus not-Marine accessible.
Personally, I'd rather they were all Marine accessible.
i would like to see some areas restricted to aliens only, but others accessible through normal vent size -to kill hidden chambers or gorgie hideouts- and/or placing the vent entrance "unreachable" to let marines gain access in late game through jetpack (as player stacking like ns1 isnt possible any more, thanks god)
This is the only solution that involves blocking marines from vents I see as reasonable really. Given aliens having the smallest classes and currently fitting in the smallest of vents it is really on the mappers to decide if they want marines in their vents or not, but crouched marines and fades need to be able to fit in default size vents at least. I know crouched fades are planned to fit so marines should be able to for sure... at least I would expect so.