Scripts
countbasie
Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
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Obviously you don't want scripts that perform movement or attacks, but there's nothing wrong with a medpack call + chat message script.
But pistol or movement scripts and all that stuff. I don't even like console commands like updaterate and whatever else there is. Hope we will all play the same game.
here is some reading for you to do:
<!--QuoteBegin-asmodee in 2009+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (asmodee in 2009)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I originally posted this to junktext's forum. This is copy/paste:
Most NS pub admins have it set in their minds that scripts are so amazingly evil that they won't even consider mp_bs 0. I was shocked to see that you would even consider removing the script blocking, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to explain why, as of v3.2, blocking scripts is no longer useful on pubs as it was even in v3.1.3 (and of course earlier).
ANSL allows scripts and explains why. The Half-Life engine has intentionally built in limitations into their scripting engine, therefore any scripts that do not somehow get around these limitations are legal. It's that simple, but years ago, you could actually get an unfair advantage since there weren't as many limitations as today.
These are the most common scripts used (today) on servers that allow scripts:
1. Pistol script
2. Wiggle walk script
3. Marine request scripts
4. Config changing scripts
5. Bunny hop script
I will now explain why none of these give you an unfair advantage (and I'm sure you're thinking pistol scripts definately do).
1. Pistol script
Years ago there was no limit as to how fast your pistol would fire, therefore if you made a script that would shoot 5 bullets (enough to kill a skulk) with 1 button click, they would fire instantly. This hasn't been the case for quite a while (I forget what version the limit was placed). If you can click fast, then you can already click faster than the limit (at least I can and I wouldn't say I'm an amazingly fast clicker).
The most common pistol script is a 2 shot script, one shot when you press the button down, and one shot when you release. Although this still may seem like it gives an unfair advantage, it has disadvantages as well. If you miss, you miss 2 bullets instead of one, if you release the mouse button too fast, you will be going over the fire rate limit and therefore the second bullet won't fire.
But probably the most important argument that this does NOT give an unfair advantage is that you can still have the effects of the pistol script, without using a script! OMG WHAT ? Yes that's right, you can bind your mwheeldown to +attack and then just spin your mouse wheel. This is not a script, gives the same effect (which since the limit was placed really isn't really a big advantage anyway).
2. Wiggle walk script
Wiggle walking is tapping your left/right strafe keys really fast. It allows you to run faster (works as marines and all aliens except lerk). It gives you slightly less speed than wall strafing (which does not require scripts), but wall straffing requires smooth walls, so wiggle walking is used where there are none. Of course most places do have smooth walls, so this isn't used as much as you'd think.
The real problem with the wiggle walk script is that it runs for about 0.5 seconds and then shuts off, so you have to tap the button repeatedly. If you say tapped the wiggle walk script button 10x, then the script would run for 5 seconds. So why is it a probem that it runs for about 0.5s? Because when it's running you can't do anything else except move your mouse, mouse button clicks don't even work. You can't jump, you can't switch weapons, you simply can't do anything except look around with your mouse. I've been killed so many times because of that damn wiggle walk script that I don't even bother anymore, except in the first 10 seconds or so of the game when I know no aliens are nearby. So hardly a big advantage, but if you're in a serious game where every second counts, then wiggle walking in those first couple of seconds is worth it.
Oh yeah, did I mention you can tap your left/right strafe keys really fast, have the same effect, but be able to 'turn it off' (meaning not have to wait for it to stop running before you can shoot that skulk) whenever you want (by just no longer pressing the left/right strafe buttons)?
In summary, wiggle walking is only useful where there are no smooth walls, has the disadvantage of being extremely vulnerable while using it, and you can wiggle walk without a script (although not quite as fast).
3. Marine request scripts
If getting a commander to notice your request is an unfair advantage, then I'll give you this one. As many more advanced players know, you can bind medpack/ammo/order requests to keys so you just hit one key and it does the request associated with that key. The request script causes a single key press to do 2 things. It both sends the in game request, but it also sends a team_say message, to give a slight additional notification of what you need and where.
You can have this same effect without scripts, just use 2 keys. Bind one to the in game request and the second to the team_say msg. Still it's hardly a big advantage as the comm is probably still going to ignore you, just your team will realize you're requesting stuff.
4. Config changing scripts
Config changing scripts are typically used to change mouse sensitivity, key layouts, or other aspects of your configuration for different lifeforms. So your skulk may have a different sensitivity than your marine. You can change a multitude of config settings with just a single press of a button (which in turn will do exec skulk.cfg or exec marine.cfg or whatever).
The reason this script does not present any advantage is that you just open up your console and type "exec fade.cfg" while you're gestating, or skulk.cfg while you're waiting to spawn, etc. So really this script is more of a convenience thing than it is an unfair advantage because you can still have the same effects without scripting.
5. Bunny hop script
I think when people think of bunny hop script they think it's actually going to automagically make you bunny hop and that's just not the case. Bunny hop scripts simulate you pressing your space bar 3x very very quickly. This is a matter of jump timing. So you still have to time your space bar presses right before you hit the ground at the end of each jump, it just makes the timing a little easier, but you know what? Most people just use mouse wheel for jumping. It has the exact same effect, and you can do it on servers that block scripts, so most people don't even bother using it, or if they do, on servers that block scripts they'll just use their mouse wheel. Some are actually good enough to not even need to use mouse wheel (I'm certainly not).
OK so those were the common scripts of today and as you can see, NONE of them give a big advantage, they're just minor things that can be done without scripting (except wiggle walking, since it does give a slightly faster than what you could do without scripts speed even with its huge disadvantage). But what about uncommon scripts? Or scripts that really do give an unfair advantage?
1. Rate scripting
Rate scripts will change your cl_updaterate/cl_cmdrate up and down as you press different keys, like wasd, space, mouse buttons, etc. This makes you near impossible to hit. IMO this is the same as hacking and should be banned as such, but there's an easier way. There's a plugin that prevents players from changing their rates during the game, or prevents them from changing them frequently. But the reality is that you could just sit your rates really low and have a similar effect (being hard to hit and teleporting around), or say play on a dialup like repears_revenge. That kid is impossible to kill as lerk because he's teleporting around.
2. Lerk flap script
Lerk flap script simply simulates (usually) 2 jumps when you press spacebar, to get you up to speed faster. This was typically used to do a move where you would fly up and down very quickly. As of v3.2 the lerk flight model has changed and it's no longer possible to do this like you could before, although is still possible to some extent. You could always do it without a script by pressing spacebar quickly.
3. Leap/bite/parasite script
4. Blink script
I'm just going to group these together. Before v3.2 which was released as final in March 2007 (although was public beta since November 2006), these scripts have become obsolete because they are actually LESS USEFUL than the new +movement feature of v3.2. I'll explain the blink script and you can guess what the leap/bite/parasite scripts do.
Blink scripts automagically and quickly change between blink and metabolize so that you can blink and metabolize at the same time, thereby reducing energy consumption. As of v3.2 not only has the blink energy rate been reduced as part of the game, but you can blink and metabolize at the same time by just using +movement for blink and slot 3 weapon for attacking. While this still requires you to switch between swipe and metabolize, it's hardly much of an advantage, especially with quick switching.
But quite possibly the biggest reason scripts shouldn't be blocked is that you can do all of the things possible with scripts, and even more (remember Half-Life has limitations purposely imposed in the scripting engine) by using macros. Macros are 3rd party programs that run outside of the game. No they're not hacks, in fact they have nothing to do with games. For years macro programs have been available to allow you to do multiple functions on your computer with a single key press and they don't have any limitations on what you can do, how fast you can do them. They can use macros to get around the limitations in the Half-Life scripting engine, or simply get around mp_bs 1 and use macros that do the same things as the scripts they would use if mp_bs were 0.
IMO macros should be banned since they can be used to do things more advanced than what the Half-Life scripting engine allows. Oh and ANSL feels the same way. They clearly state that macros are cheating, but scripts are ok.
In summary, scripts are limited in what they can do, which isn't as much as many people think. The ones that do give an advantage it is very minor and can be done without scripts (pistol/bhop/etc), or they can be done with +movement (blink/metab). Point is, as of v3.2 there is hardly any advantage that can be gained through the use of scripts that cannot be gained without using scripts. It's primarily a convenience thing (at least in my case with the config changing scripts). And I hardly see how my ability to change configs by pressing a single key somehow gives me an advantage over changing the config by manually typing in 'exec lerk.cfg' while I'm gestating.
I believe most admins that block scripts either don't actually know of any scripts that give advantages, or, like the pistol script, heard about them years ago when they really did give a huge advantage, but have not kept up with the times.
But quite possibly the biggest argument I have for allowing scripts on junktext's server is that it's supposedly no game altering elements. You know, the way NS was meant to be played, but there's one little secret I bet almost nobody (except server admins) know, and that's that the NS developers do NOT block scripts by default. If you want to block scripts, you have to change the mp_bs 0 line to mp_bs 1 in the official server.cfg file.
EOR (End of Rant)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it is immoral and wrong to play with better connection settings than back in 2002? Granted they are not intuitive but world is not perfect.
Bunnyhob brought lot to the game with script or without.
It is really frustrating to see people judge wrong due of ignorance, we are not in age of witch hunt are we ?
On the other hand, I really hope scripts stay allowed, and then people who use scripts like that just gets banned. There is several kinds of clientside scripts I can think of that might be good to use and yet is not op, like custom huds or edited menus.
Please do not do this. Please no scripts. I hate that. I want to play a game without being forced to become a master-google-config-nerd to be able to keep up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sure there will some "cheating" or "unfair" lua scripts comming soon or already there...
A guy create a minimap clientside, i don't know if its possible to let the player see "every" player but it gives a bit unease.
Bunnyhob brought lot to the game with script or without.
It is really frustrating to see people judge wrong due of ignorance, we are not in age of witch hunt are we ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I neither judge nor do I hunt anyone. I don't know how you feel that.
I don't talk about moral. Of course it is better to play with up-to-date connection settings. But only if everyone does. This could be done with patches and a menue option to configure your connection type. Well, steam has that anyway.
It is just not cool to be forced to spend hours in configuring. It is cooler to learn the game as it comes.
meb2: I'm sorry, but what he basically says is, that good players can place headshots, so it is no difference wether they use an aimbot or not.
A game is only good if it is fair for everyone. Fair is, when every function is used by human reflexes. Or everyone has the same automated functions. Yes, I could be up to date with all those config-improvements, but I don't have the time for that crap. When I want to play a game, I want to start it and play.
I don't judge people who have time for that stuff. I'm just asking for fairness.
lol.
This is on the same level as model replacement (neon colors) removing ambient sounds etc. You can turn it how you want but its still kinda cheating.
Its the entry drug of haxx0rs. You want to get advantages so hard that you try to automate/exploit game mechanics. Soon you will try the hard stuff.
<u><b>
You naps can still use "autoit" or other makro programms like from logitech - so whats the big deal?</b></u>
yep. "I can click fast therefore it makes no difference if i'm using a autofire script" uhhh nope, if you're frenetically clicking you will have shiet accuracy which is the whole point of that script. the whole wall of text is full of fallacies like that.
scripting IS cheating no matter how you try and sell it, and steps should be taken to prevent cheating of all types.
scripting IS cheating no matter how you try and sell it, and steps should be taken to prevent cheating of all types.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bind mwheeldown +jump
bind mwheeldown +attack
sup bro.
also, maybe YOU have bad aim while clicking at the max fire rate, but not everyone does.
scripts = softhacks. l2p.
This is on the same level as model replacement (neon colors) removing ambient sounds etc. You can turn it how you want but its still kinda cheating.
Its the entry drug of haxx0rs. You want to get advantages so hard that you try to automate/exploit game mechanics. Soon you will try the hard stuff.
l2p indeed
it paints a pretty portrait about why scripts are useful for customization and why they were consciously left by the devs (except abusive stuff like _special)
aimbots are completely separate programs that the devs didn't purposefully leave in the game for a player to use, but that's pretty clear to see so I think you're just a troll
<!--quoteo(post=1825051:date=Jan 17 2011, 02:24 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Jan 17 2011, 02:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't judge people who have time for that stuff. I'm just asking for fairness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, you're asking to be unburdened from the optional task of potentially going out and finding scripts that are useful to players (which is the only reason you would spend the time to go out and find them)
All the 'unfair' scripts meb2 mentioned are due to problems with the game engine. As he said, they can just as easily be exploited via macros. Its better to allow scripts, let people find these flaws in the game engine, and then fix the game engine, then sticking our heads in the sand and somehow thinking that this will make the gameplay even between players.
It's better to allow exploits, so that exploits can be fixed engine-side, so that nobody can exploit? It seems to me to be more a straightforward way to reach the goal of nobody being able to exploit if they just disallow exploits right off the bat...
Edit: misread
"no, you're asking to be unburdened from the optional task of potentially going out and finding scripts that are useful to players (which is the only reason you would spend the time to go out and find them) "
Yes, I am asking for that. I have a job and a girlfriend. I payed for a game, not for improving it.
"also, maybe YOU have bad aim while clicking at the max fire rate, but not everyone does."
That is exactly the point. That's what is is about. Some are better, some are worse players. Our computers are all the same, no need to let them fight against each other.
Compare it with soccer. Some are able to hit the goal, some not. The first one is going to win the game. And all without cyber-legs. If you want to play with a cyber-leg, don't play soccer. Play cyber-leg-soccer.
You b warned arrr ;-)
fly away troll
lol your posts in this thread are a wall of text copypasta spam, "gorge furry model lua script with custom rubber duckhunt ###### shooter aimbot," accusing people who don't cheat of being too lazy to find cheats ("you're asking to be unburdened"), and accusing anyone who you disagree with of trolling by repeatedly spamming the same phrase... ironic!
Community guidelines.
"Please behave politely at all times. That means refraining from swearing and disrespectful comments"
This is on the same level as model replacement (neon colors) removing ambient sounds etc. You can turn it how you want but its still kinda cheating.
(...)
You naps can still use "autoit" or other makro programms like from logitech - so whats the big deal?[/b][/u]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ This
Example:
I remember in my old TFC-Clan-days I had a reload script (release firekey -> autoreload shotgun). Back then I liked it and it was very useful for me.
But it's unfair for all the other players who have to pay attention to their ammunition and reload manually.
And that was just one of my scripts.
A script alone may look like no big deal, but it's the amount of scripts what matters.
(I had at least 20 back then)
Moral of the story?
If you allow scripts, the pro-players will get even more advantages against the average-joe players.
In the end it will put the random players off....
If scripts are not allowed only skill matters.
So don't allow scripts
Just my two cent...