Sorry to say it, but for the first time im unhappy with a patch, waiting for 162.
While the rine Comm and lmg got huge improvements (good job on that!), other parts of the game are now worse or a bit broken... Playing seemed smoother (for ME!) in 159/160... (except strobo skulk which still is in - and marines can do it too now :P or at least i had many situations where skulks and marines are jumping bite/shooting around and nobody dies for nearly a minute... until flamethowers come and win the game... cause no real aiming is needed + every defense gets destroyed trough walls anyway...)
Still love you UWE guys, and you are doing a great job!
<!--quoteo(post=1823501:date=Jan 12 2011, 12:59 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Jan 12 2011, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i dunno, i still hold firm that flamethrowers should be level 3 tech and gl should remain level 2 but, maybe when the game smooths out that statement may be retracted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with you on that. Fix flamethrower particles going thru walls and leave the damage alone but make it level 3 tech. it should still have to come down to marines making good shots with the lmg shooting alien defenders to take a third comm station, not lol flamethrower at level 2 mc hammer dance.
In my games of build 161 aliens win probably a good 75% of the time, most likely the new cost of sentries being 20 carbon making early base defense out of the question. Even when marine get flamers the aliens have fades by that time and have rushed our IP and since there are 0 sentries to soften them up before they reach our IP nothing can stop 2/3 fades, even marines with flamers.
Good patch except....the lag. I am getting Major lag (Ruber Banding and Freezing) with 90s ping sorta unbearable. If it is a fresh server , just popped up , it is bearable for a game or two from what i have noticed. It seems about the 3rd of 4th game...it gets unplayable , literally , its nearly one tick a second like a photo session (Again , im not noticing as much FPS lag its like...latency lag for some reason , it weird)
I havnt seen many people complain about it in this post, but i have seen several complaints about it on the servers. Wasnt quiet as bad on the last patch..but this patch you cant miss it.
Game does run smoother however , it just seems instead of the screen lag now , we have latency type lag for some reason even with good pings. I get this on all servers i play on.
Also the flamethrowers are a little over the top it seems now. The lag makes it much worse than it actually is , but when they are jumping around blazing flames and the lag kicks in...makes it dang near impossible to get a kill. Aliens were a little overpowered imo in the last patch , now it seems they are a tad under power , and this Evolving bug makes it worse. 65% of the time im not able to evolve no matter what room i am in and how much space i have between objects.
But you guys are getting closer. A little more optimization , prediction , and the latency problem fixes this game will be a golden example for a beta.
I am however really requesting a Hotfix for the lag please fix this ASAP , this beta experience will be awesome with this patch if that latency problem wasnt there (Lag). Decent FPS improvement as well , i enjoy that in the early game when the lag isnt so bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1823858:date=Jan 13 2011, 07:17 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 13 2011, 07:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->99% of the time marines get flamethrowers they win...
So what do we learn? Get the 2nd CC up or lose. The only thing where a little teamwork is needed in ns2... you can do it! Just use ingame voice!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
flamethrowers are broken, and overpowered, we all know. Although aside from that here is the problem with flamethrowers or any other upgrades in general.
what is the point for marines to capture second command center? to get second tier weapons, flamethrowers - correct? what if aliens capture marines this second command center? nothing, that's the problem capturing an arena doesn't make marines lose any upgrades, this is the problem.
lets say marines have flamethrowers, but aliens capture that second command center, now marines shouldn't have access to flamethrowers - they failed to defend.
all marines do now, rush capture second command center, lose that but get flamethrowers. Get turrets in base, and go hunting with flamethrowers.
Just like in ns1, losing armory means you lose access to higher tier weapons, so losing command centers means losing access to higher tiers. (idea should apply to aliens as well)
<!--quoteo(post=1823876:date=Jan 13 2011, 02:23 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Jan 13 2011, 02:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flamethrowers are broken, and overpowered, we all know. Although aside from that here is the problem with flamethrowers or any other upgrades in general.
what is the point for marines to capture second command center? to get second tier weapons, flamethrowers - correct? what if aliens capture marines this second command center? nothing, that's the problem capturing an arena doesn't make marines lose any upgrades, this is the problem.
lets say marines have flamethrowers, but aliens capture that second command center, now marines shouldn't have access to flamethrowers - they failed to defend.
all marines do now, rush capture second command center, lose that but get flamethrowers. Get turrets in base, and go hunting with flamethrowers.
Just like in ns1, losing armory means you lose access to higher tier weapons, so losing command centers means losing access to higher tiers. (idea should apply to aliens as well)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, hate that first minute in every round, rines rush, build a second CC, upgrade primary CC, recycle secondary, and GG from there (with flames its not 99%, its 100% rine win).
I see 2 possible and easy solutions:
1. Move flamethrower to tier 3 2. If it stay at tier 2, only allow to buy/research it if team hold the second CC up
I would think current balance issues aren't really valid Except 1) Rines --> rush CC 2 , upgrade main CC - fort base --> FT rush
Its a lame repeated absolute win strategy (at least before B161 where rines could spam sentries)
Since B161 the same standard tactic stands (tho considering tier 3 is not up) it is not really VALID to say this is imbalanced on end product game play BUT certainly need looking into.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Next issue
a)Rines getting slaughtered by 2HKO shulks (pre B161) really isn't a fair rating that aliens are OP @ the start), considering in ALL FPS games a slight lag throws bullet hit boxes off (obviously as opposed to melee the hitbox work better since there is greater room for error).
b)IF there were no LAG i would see rines not having much problems with shulks. Rines have a relatively EASY time (compare to NS 1) where jumping has fatigue (if i didn't remember wrongly).
c)Randomly jumping around normally allows me enough time to empty my LMG and pistol. Why shout OP when as rines u emptied 50 auto shots and 10 semi auto shots + a few rifle swings AND FAIL to kill ONE SKULK. IF you really want to complain point (a) would be much more valid (till lag smooths out completely)
Final issues i) I personally feel devs should express themselves that B160 standard of lag (or slightly better) WILL be the standard for say the next 6 months. This would allow them to focus on ROLLING out GAME PLAY changes rapidly, IE tier 3. ii)I support my own arguement that SINCE UWE are INDIE the team simply isn't big enough to make a two point attack. iii) Similarly they could focus solely on optimization for the next 1 month and make the game very much playable. Though the introduction of new things will restart this process ever too often that gameplay wise it becomes stagnant.
I wish UWE the best and hopefully ponder about what to focus on tentatively since dropping into a stagnant zone (IE developement hell) would see NS2 project restarted.
I don't know how effective flamethrowers are going to be, after they have beend <i>adjusted</i>, but it might just happen that they are going to be severely nerfed or even removed entirely. As is they take out 2 alien classes almost entirely (skulk and gorge), and severely limit lerk movement. I just don't see how we can have flamethrowers that are even remotely worth the research costs, and at the same time don't make skulks useless. Afaik the plan is to have all classes to be useful and fun during the whole game, including end game. The "wave it in the general direction of the enemy for instant skulk death" mechanic of the flamethrower kind of runs counter to that.
<!--quoteo(post=1823962:date=Jan 13 2011, 08:44 AM:name=RUben1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RUben1 @ Jan 13 2011, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823962"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exo suit is for tier 3. Onos is for tier 3 aliens. That's how it's thought out..
Fades can easily take out one (or two) FT marines at a time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if rines are blind probably, but atm a low skilled player can jump into a hive with a flamethower and manage to kill or severe damage every alien who attacked him before die.
I mean, at tier 2, aliens and marines are not balanced at all, there is no counterpart for flames on alien side, and Onos will be tier 3...
I doubt they will be removed. They just need to be nerfed.
Dont like when people say things like 'put in the Onos so we can beat the flamethrower' - I want to enjoy playing any alien class I want to play and not be forced to play Onos. It makes sense that the flamethrower should be strong against lerk since the lerk is medium/long range and looks like it would burn being fragile and all. For the rest of the aliens im not sure. Focus more on how the flamethrower effects the marine - absolutely stop the marine being able to run around while firing, make the flames hurt the marine if he fires too close to himself, and make the damn thing more expensive!
The idea of the flamethrower is great: a weapon to fight back the dynamic infestation and can be used to sweep rooms for some damage and disruption. As of 161 flamethrower might as well be a hax it drives everyone nuts and ruins the game. Is it really so hard for the devs to stop the flamethrower going through walls? (i dont mean that in a sarcastic way).
Runs slightly better now. In fact, I believe most of the remaining lag is because you have way too much stuff server-side when it is better off being client side.
Also, you need NS1-styled "gamma ramping" and to get rid of that pale black glowing fog in most sections of the maps. It looks really bad.
Notice the flamethrower damage has been reduced to 25 per tick, from 35 that was of Build 157, which was undocumented. (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2010/12/ns2_build_157_released). Flamethrower's burn damage is also hardly impressive.
Personally, I think the flamethrower will be quite balanced once its bugs are fixed.
Let me reiterate the reported FT bugs: Fires through walls, burn duration is random, and is uncapped, causes a large drop in FPS (I'm getting a 5-10 FPS drop to ~10FPS), dense flame effect obstructing view.
<!--quoteo(post=1823979:date=Jan 13 2011, 09:36 AM:name=guiris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (guiris @ Jan 13 2011, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, if rines are blind probably, but atm a low skilled player can jump into a hive with a flamethower and manage to kill or severe damage every alien who attacked him before die.
I mean, at tier 2, aliens and marines are not balanced at all, there is no counterpart for flames on alien side, and Onos will be tier 3...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Flamethrower marines are incredibly hard to kill because of the visibility issue compounded with the performance problems. I don't think it's really as powerful as people make it out to be.
<!--quoteo(post=1823985:date=Jan 13 2011, 10:51 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 13 2011, 10:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just took a look in Balance.LUA, and I was quite surprised at what I found.
Notice the flamethrower damage has been reduced to 25 per tick, from 35 that was of Build 157, which was undocumented. (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2010/12/ns2_build_157_released). Flamethrower's burn damage is also hardly impressive.
Personally, I think the flamethrower will be quite balanced once its bugs are fixed.
Let me reiterate the reported FT bugs: Fires through walls, burn duration is random, and is uncapped, causes a large drop in FPS (I'm getting a 5-10 FPS drop to ~10FPS), dense flame effect obstructing view.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Build 160 definitely had 35 FT damage, so this was a new change as of the most recent patch. The worst thing about the random duration is that there's a much greater likelihood of you not going out of fire before you die. 4.5 seconds for about a ~50% <b>cumulative</b> chance (compare: 10.5 seconds for 80% chance). That's only 45 damage really, but for a skulk who has 90 hitpoints (70 health, 10 armour), that's quite a lot.
<!--quoteo(post=1823982:date=Jan 13 2011, 02:48 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jan 13 2011, 02:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823982"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it really so hard for the devs to stop the flamethrower going through walls? (i dont mean that in a sarcastic way).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, it isn't an easy fix. We can, and probably will, make it so the flamethrower doesn't do damage through walls. But stopping the particle effect from going through walls is rather more complicated. We checked out TF2s flamethrower, and even their particle effects go through walls.
Are you still going to make it volumetric, as that's the only stated reason for the flamethrower not being included in the original. I would assume a volumetric flamethrower would not clip through solid objects, but I don't know enough about it to verify.
<!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I have to say i am everything else but happy with this build!
The server performance is poor: average server is sending between 3 - 18 tickets per secound. hydras, large map like tram and more than six players make it worse!!! Client performance dercreased with build161for me: FPS rate differs between 35 and 7 frames, depending on location on the map and amount of players in proximity. Especially MODELS like every building bring my FPS down to 8 - 12.
I know this is not detailed information, but I am short on time and I want to play and enjoy the game. Ive always been patient, but sadly Im getting frustrated. I bought 3 copys of the game, as well as my flat mate, but...
...its has become unplayable for me since the last patch. My advice would be to fix the very base of the game before starting to worry about the balancing and fine tuning!!!!!
I had the though of using a particle system for the flamethrower. Every particle would be one "flame". These particles would not go through walls. Since every particle is by itself they would continue in the direction they were fired. So if the player rotated there would be an arc instead of a line.
I'm not sure how much network traffic this would cause seeing as it would require a pretty high ROF. I assume it would be sufficient to send one packet per flame and perhaps a second if it hits an object and should be extinguished. Perhaps it wouldn't be that much more stressing than a rifle?
How well does the engine handle lots of sprites close up in the same direction? =)
<!--quoteo(post=1824065:date=Jan 13 2011, 06:50 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 13 2011, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, it isn't an easy fix. We can, and probably will, make it so the flamethrower doesn't do damage through walls. But stopping the particle effect from going through walls is rather more complicated. We checked out TF2s flamethrower, and even their particle effects go through walls.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can think of a couple of ways to make TF2's flamer not do that, although they would bump up the expensiveness of the effect. TF2 just does it because TF2 has such a short ranged and pansy flamethrower that you probably wouldn't ever notice it going through walls.
As source supports impact detection on its particles however you could cull them on impact with a wall, you could also if you had code support to position a control point in front of the player based on whether there is a wall there, use the 'remap distance to control point to scalar' operator to shorten the effect based on how far away the closest wall is, although the effect would be a lot more complex if you did.
Although this does rely on you having a rather complex particle system like source, so if you don't, you're kind of out of luck.
<!--quoteo(post=1823958:date=Jan 13 2011, 08:23 AM:name=guiris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (guiris @ Jan 13 2011, 08:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agree, hate that first minute in every round, rines rush, build a second CC, upgrade primary CC, recycle secondary, and GG from there (with flames its not 99%, its 100% rine win).
I see 2 possible and easy solutions:
1. Move flamethrower to tier 3 2. If it stay at tier 2, only allow to buy/research it if team hold the second CC up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wrong. I have played a few games where marines got to flamethrowers and still lost, on tram too. As long as aliens can keep sufficient res flow and play smart, they can stop flamethrowers.
The flamethrower is more like tier 2.5 because it isn't immediately available once tier 2 is complete. Far from it... You need to research both advanced armory and the weapon module before it's available. That takes a long time. The aliens in the mean time can do quite a bit with fades (which are immediately available after hitting tier 2) and lerks (which seem kind of overpowered right now imo, but we'll see once lag improves).
I think melee attacks are a lot harder to connect now. The LMG is much, much improved, but most servers have a ton of warping going on every fight. It's just a lot harder to hit people as skulk/fade now. One really annoying problem is when a marine is sprinting away from a fade (they go the same speed). I can be right at the marine's back, and I hear the sound effects of hitting them, but after 6+ swipes I can tell I am obviously not dealing any damage at all. This happens a lot when skulks and marines get entangled, and I think it only ends when the marine happens to be running into the skulk when the bite registers.
<!--quoteo(post=1824096:date=Jan 13 2011, 03:24 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 13 2011, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can think of a couple of ways to make TF2's flamer not do that, although they would bump up the expensiveness of the effect. TF2 just does it because TF2 has such a short ranged and pansy flamethrower that you probably wouldn't ever notice it going through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A reduction in range doesn't sound bad to me... The TF2 length would be pitifully low though.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2011
The Return to Castle Wolvenstein flamer seems to have wall collision detection and also is one of the best, if not the best, flamer I've ever seen in games...
It doesn't look brilliant when the effects simply disappear upon contact with a wall, but it does look better than having them go through everything.
There are halfway measures like having the effect fade out and in its place spawning a sort of impact effect to mask the fade, but it's always going to be an imperfect solution.
<!--quoteo(post=1824104:date=Jan 13 2011, 08:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 13 2011, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't look brilliant when the effects simply disappear upon contact with a wall, but it does look better than having them go through everything.
There are halfway measures like having the effect fade out and in its place spawning a sort of impact effect to mask the fade, but it's always going to be an imperfect solution.
You can definitely improve it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Bad Company 2: Vietnam flamethrower does something very cool, it reflects the flame particle effect straight back off surfaces and it's quite a good effect. Also it leaves the surrounding area on fire for a while afterwards, which is a nice touch. As far as i'm aware it doesn't clip through walls either, even the thin little wooden shacks.
Comments
While the rine Comm and lmg got huge improvements (good job on that!), other parts of the game are now worse or a bit broken... Playing seemed smoother (for ME!) in 159/160... (except strobo skulk which still is in - and marines can do it too now :P or at least i had many situations where skulks and marines are jumping bite/shooting around and nobody dies for nearly a minute... until flamethowers come and win the game... cause no real aiming is needed + every defense gets destroyed trough walls anyway...)
Still love you UWE guys, and you are doing a great job!
I'm with you on that. Fix flamethrower particles going thru walls and leave the damage alone but make it level 3 tech. it should still have to come down to marines making good shots with the lmg shooting alien defenders to take a third comm station, not lol flamethrower at level 2 mc hammer dance.
So what do we learn? Get the 2nd CC up or lose. The only thing where a little teamwork is needed in ns2... you can do it! Just use ingame voice!
I havnt seen many people complain about it in this post, but i have seen several complaints about it on the servers. Wasnt quiet as bad on the last patch..but this patch you cant miss it.
Game does run smoother however , it just seems instead of the screen lag now , we have latency type lag for some reason even with good pings. I get this on all servers i play on.
Also the flamethrowers are a little over the top it seems now. The lag makes it much worse than it actually is , but when they are jumping around blazing flames and the lag kicks in...makes it dang near impossible to get a kill. Aliens were a little overpowered imo in the last patch , now it seems they are a tad under power , and this Evolving bug makes it worse. 65% of the time im not able to evolve no matter what room i am in and how much space i have between objects.
But you guys are getting closer. A little more optimization , prediction , and the latency problem fixes this game will be a golden example for a beta.
I am however really requesting a Hotfix for the lag please fix this ASAP , this beta experience will be awesome with this patch if that latency problem wasnt there (Lag). Decent FPS improvement as well , i enjoy that in the early game when the lag isnt so bad.
So what do we learn? Get the 2nd CC up or lose. The only thing where a little teamwork is needed in ns2... you can do it! Just use ingame voice!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
flamethrowers are broken, and overpowered, we all know. Although aside from that here is the problem with flamethrowers or any other upgrades in general.
what is the point for marines to capture second command center? to get second tier weapons, flamethrowers - correct?
what if aliens capture marines this second command center? nothing, that's the problem
capturing an arena doesn't make marines lose any upgrades, this is the problem.
lets say marines have flamethrowers, but aliens capture that second command center, now marines shouldn't have access to flamethrowers - they failed to defend.
all marines do now, rush capture second command center, lose that but get flamethrowers. Get turrets in base, and go hunting with flamethrowers.
Just like in ns1, losing armory means you lose access to higher tier weapons, so losing command centers means losing access to higher tiers. (idea should apply to aliens as well)
what is the point for marines to capture second command center? to get second tier weapons, flamethrowers - correct?
what if aliens capture marines this second command center? nothing, that's the problem
capturing an arena doesn't make marines lose any upgrades, this is the problem.
lets say marines have flamethrowers, but aliens capture that second command center, now marines shouldn't have access to flamethrowers - they failed to defend.
all marines do now, rush capture second command center, lose that but get flamethrowers. Get turrets in base, and go hunting with flamethrowers.
Just like in ns1, losing armory means you lose access to higher tier weapons, so losing command centers means losing access to higher tiers. (idea should apply to aliens as well)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, hate that first minute in every round, rines rush, build a second CC, upgrade primary CC, recycle secondary, and GG from there (with flames its not 99%, its 100% rine win).
I see 2 possible and easy solutions:
1. Move flamethrower to tier 3
2. If it stay at tier 2, only allow to buy/research it if team hold the second CC up
Exo suit is for tier 3. Onos is for tier 3 aliens. That's how it's thought out..
Fades can easily take out one (or two) FT marines at a time.
Except
1) Rines --> rush CC 2 , upgrade main CC - fort base --> FT rush
Its a lame repeated absolute win strategy (at least before B161 where rines could spam sentries)
Since B161 the same standard tactic stands (tho considering tier 3 is not up) it is not really VALID to say this is imbalanced on end product game play BUT certainly need looking into.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next issue
a)Rines getting slaughtered by 2HKO shulks (pre B161) really isn't a fair rating that aliens are OP @ the start), considering in ALL FPS games a slight lag throws bullet hit boxes off (obviously as opposed to melee the hitbox work better since there is greater room for error).
b)IF there were no LAG i would see rines not having much problems with shulks.
Rines have a relatively EASY time (compare to NS 1) where jumping has fatigue (if i didn't remember wrongly).
c)Randomly jumping around normally allows me enough time to empty my LMG and pistol.
Why shout OP when as rines u emptied 50 auto shots and 10 semi auto shots + a few rifle swings AND FAIL to kill ONE SKULK.
IF you really want to complain point (a) would be much more valid (till lag smooths out completely)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final issues
i) I personally feel devs should express themselves that B160 standard of lag (or slightly better) WILL be the standard for say the next 6 months. This would allow them to focus on ROLLING out GAME PLAY changes rapidly, IE tier 3.
ii)I support my own arguement that SINCE UWE are INDIE the team simply isn't big enough to make a two point attack.
iii) Similarly they could focus solely on optimization for the next 1 month and make the game very much playable. Though the introduction of new things will restart this process ever too often that gameplay wise it becomes stagnant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish UWE the best and hopefully ponder about what to focus on tentatively since dropping into a stagnant zone (IE developement hell) would see NS2 project restarted.
Fades can easily take out one (or two) FT marines at a time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if rines are blind probably, but atm a low skilled player can jump into a hive with a flamethower and manage to kill or severe damage every alien who attacked him before die.
I mean, at tier 2, aliens and marines are not balanced at all, there is no counterpart for flames on alien side, and Onos will be tier 3...
Dont like when people say things like 'put in the Onos so we can beat the flamethrower' - I want to enjoy playing any alien class I want to play and not be forced to play Onos. It makes sense that the flamethrower should be strong against lerk since the lerk is medium/long range and looks like it would burn being fragile and all. For the rest of the aliens im not sure. Focus more on how the flamethrower effects the marine - absolutely stop the marine being able to run around while firing, make the flames hurt the marine if he fires too close to himself, and make the damn thing more expensive!
The idea of the flamethrower is great: a weapon to fight back the dynamic infestation and can be used to sweep rooms for some damage and disruption. As of 161 flamethrower might as well be a hax it drives everyone nuts and ruins the game. Is it really so hard for the devs to stop the flamethrower going through walls? (i dont mean that in a sarcastic way).
Also, you need NS1-styled "gamma ramping" and to get rid of that pale black glowing fog in most sections of the maps. It looks really bad.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kFlamethrowerDamage = 25
kFlamethrowerDamageType = kDamageType.Flame
kFlamethrowerFireDelay = 0.5
kFlamethrowerClipSize = 20
kBurnDamagePerSecond = 10<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Notice the flamethrower damage has been reduced to 25 per tick, from 35 that was of Build 157, which was undocumented. (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2010/12/ns2_build_157_released). Flamethrower's burn damage is also hardly impressive.
Personally, I think the flamethrower will be quite balanced once its bugs are fixed.
Let me reiterate the reported FT bugs:
Fires through walls,
burn duration is random, and is uncapped,
causes a large drop in FPS (I'm getting a 5-10 FPS drop to ~10FPS),
dense flame effect obstructing view.
I mean, at tier 2, aliens and marines are not balanced at all, there is no counterpart for flames on alien side, and Onos will be tier 3...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flamethrower marines are incredibly hard to kill because of the visibility issue compounded with the performance problems. I don't think it's really as powerful as people make it out to be.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kFlamethrowerDamage = 25
kFlamethrowerDamageType = kDamageType.Flame
kFlamethrowerFireDelay = 0.5
kFlamethrowerClipSize = 20
kBurnDamagePerSecond = 10<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Notice the flamethrower damage has been reduced to 25 per tick, from 35 that was of Build 157, which was undocumented. (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2010/12/ns2_build_157_released). Flamethrower's burn damage is also hardly impressive.
Personally, I think the flamethrower will be quite balanced once its bugs are fixed.
Let me reiterate the reported FT bugs:
Fires through walls,
burn duration is random, and is uncapped,
causes a large drop in FPS (I'm getting a 5-10 FPS drop to ~10FPS),
dense flame effect obstructing view.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Build 160 definitely had 35 FT damage, so this was a new change as of the most recent patch. The worst thing about the random duration is that there's a much greater likelihood of you not going out of fire before you die. 4.5 seconds for about a ~50% <b>cumulative</b> chance (compare: 10.5 seconds for 80% chance). That's only 45 damage really, but for a skulk who has 90 hitpoints (70 health, 10 armour), that's quite a lot.
Actually, it isn't an easy fix. We can, and probably will, make it so the flamethrower doesn't do damage through walls. But stopping the particle effect from going through walls is rather more complicated. We checked out TF2s flamethrower, and even their particle effects go through walls.
--Cory
The server performance is poor: average server is sending between 3 - 18 tickets per secound. hydras, large map like tram and more than six players make it worse!!!
Client performance dercreased with build161for me: FPS rate differs between 35 and 7 frames, depending on location on the map and amount of players in proximity. Especially MODELS like every building bring my FPS down to 8 - 12.
I know this is not detailed information, but I am short on time and I want to play and enjoy the game. Ive always been patient, but sadly Im getting frustrated.
I bought 3 copys of the game, as well as my flat mate, but...
...its has become unplayable for me since the last patch.
My advice would be to fix the very base of the game before starting to worry about the balancing and fine tuning!!!!!
Sincerely yours<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I'm not sure how much network traffic this would cause seeing as it would require a pretty high ROF. I assume it would be sufficient to send one packet per flame and perhaps a second if it hits an object and should be extinguished. Perhaps it wouldn't be that much more stressing than a rifle?
How well does the engine handle lots of sprites close up in the same direction? =)
Server performance is really horrible. It seems that all servers but one have constant memory leaks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can think of a couple of ways to make TF2's flamer not do that, although they would bump up the expensiveness of the effect. TF2 just does it because TF2 has such a short ranged and pansy flamethrower that you probably wouldn't ever notice it going through walls.
As source supports impact detection on its particles however you could cull them on impact with a wall, you could also if you had code support to position a control point in front of the player based on whether there is a wall there, use the 'remap distance to control point to scalar' operator to shorten the effect based on how far away the closest wall is, although the effect would be a lot more complex if you did.
Although this does rely on you having a rather complex particle system like source, so if you don't, you're kind of out of luck.
I see 2 possible and easy solutions:
1. Move flamethrower to tier 3
2. If it stay at tier 2, only allow to buy/research it if team hold the second CC up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wrong. I have played a few games where marines got to flamethrowers and still lost, on tram too. As long as aliens can keep sufficient res flow and play smart, they can stop flamethrowers.
The flamethrower is more like tier 2.5 because it isn't immediately available once tier 2 is complete. Far from it... You need to research both advanced armory and the weapon module before it's available. That takes a long time. The aliens in the mean time can do quite a bit with fades (which are immediately available after hitting tier 2) and lerks (which seem kind of overpowered right now imo, but we'll see once lag improves).
I think melee attacks are a lot harder to connect now. The LMG is much, much improved, but most servers have a ton of warping going on every fight. It's just a lot harder to hit people as skulk/fade now. One really annoying problem is when a marine is sprinting away from a fade (they go the same speed). I can be right at the marine's back, and I hear the sound effects of hitting them, but after 6+ swipes I can tell I am obviously not dealing any damage at all. This happens a lot when skulks and marines get entangled, and I think it only ends when the marine happens to be running into the skulk when the bite registers.
<!--quoteo(post=1824096:date=Jan 13 2011, 03:24 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 13 2011, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can think of a couple of ways to make TF2's flamer not do that, although they would bump up the expensiveness of the effect. TF2 just does it because TF2 has such a short ranged and pansy flamethrower that you probably wouldn't ever notice it going through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A reduction in range doesn't sound bad to me... The TF2 length would be pitifully low though.
There are halfway measures like having the effect fade out and in its place spawning a sort of impact effect to mask the fade, but it's always going to be an imperfect solution.
You can definitely improve it though.
There are halfway measures like having the effect fade out and in its place spawning a sort of impact effect to mask the fade, but it's always going to be an imperfect solution.
You can definitely improve it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Bad Company 2: Vietnam flamethrower does something very cool, it reflects the flame particle effect straight back off surfaces and it's quite a good effect. Also it leaves the surrounding area on fire for a while afterwards, which is a nice touch. As far as i'm aware it doesn't clip through walls either, even the thin little wooden shacks.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1vjHCqAKgM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1vjHCqAKgM</a>