Unknown Worls bankrupt/insolvent before release?
Price
Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
im a big fan of NS1, i buy Half-life 1 game of the year edition only for that game (after WON was closed).
So i was excited for NS2, so i pre-order, i follow the developing since its announced.
Anyway they move in 2 days from alpha to beta (more sells?)
and i guess if they work like now, the game will finished 4th Quartal of 2011, sure they sell now a lot more copies because they have reach the "beta" status VERY quick.
But whats after that?
i guess they can go bankrupt/insolvent before they even done NS2.
The game is far away from done (technical and gameplay).
<!--QuoteBegin-cory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cory)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Guys, UW isn't going anywhere. NS2 is our lives right now and we are going to get it done one way or another.
[...]
In addition to all the performance and gameplay balance issues there is still a ton of new stuff left to go into the game. Off the top of my head:
--Onos (and while he may not have abilities like devour anymore, he will have other new ones, such as breaking down doors)
--Exosuit, with several new weapon types and view models.
--Robotics Factory building
--The mobile ARC siege cannon
--2 new alien structures for the alien commander - The Shift and the Shade
--DI
--at least 3 more fullsized maps in addition to Tram -- Rockdown will probably be removed for the release version of the game
--jetpacks
--portable power nodes
--more alien abilities<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-cory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cory)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
Most people on the forums have heard me say this a hundred times already, but Rockdown is just a TEST map, was never meant for full NS2 gameplay, and is far far smaller then the other official maps in the works. It will be removed at some point during the beta stage, as the gameplay really doesn't work as intended. Tram is the only official map, is also one of the smallest, and is still being revised and improved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-cory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cory)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
NS1 had numbers in the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded and played. So far, pre orders for NS2 has been a very very small fraction of that number, and has kept us in business for a year and a half. Many games these days need sales in the millions in order to see a profit due to their expenses, but with our relatively low cost overhead compared to most companies, and without having had the duration of the project funded by a publisher that needs to first see a return on their investment before paying out to the developer, we can survive off a much smaller number of sales. It is pretty unlikely that we won't be able to generate further sales beyond our pre order base once the game is finished and released, and if that is the case then something has gone terribly wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So i was excited for NS2, so i pre-order, i follow the developing since its announced.
Anyway they move in 2 days from alpha to beta (more sells?)
and i guess if they work like now, the game will finished 4th Quartal of 2011, sure they sell now a lot more copies because they have reach the "beta" status VERY quick.
But whats after that?
i guess they can go bankrupt/insolvent before they even done NS2.
The game is far away from done (technical and gameplay).
<!--QuoteBegin-cory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cory)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Guys, UW isn't going anywhere. NS2 is our lives right now and we are going to get it done one way or another.
[...]
In addition to all the performance and gameplay balance issues there is still a ton of new stuff left to go into the game. Off the top of my head:
--Onos (and while he may not have abilities like devour anymore, he will have other new ones, such as breaking down doors)
--Exosuit, with several new weapon types and view models.
--Robotics Factory building
--The mobile ARC siege cannon
--2 new alien structures for the alien commander - The Shift and the Shade
--DI
--at least 3 more fullsized maps in addition to Tram -- Rockdown will probably be removed for the release version of the game
--jetpacks
--portable power nodes
--more alien abilities<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-cory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cory)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
Most people on the forums have heard me say this a hundred times already, but Rockdown is just a TEST map, was never meant for full NS2 gameplay, and is far far smaller then the other official maps in the works. It will be removed at some point during the beta stage, as the gameplay really doesn't work as intended. Tram is the only official map, is also one of the smallest, and is still being revised and improved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-cory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cory)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]
NS1 had numbers in the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded and played. So far, pre orders for NS2 has been a very very small fraction of that number, and has kept us in business for a year and a half. Many games these days need sales in the millions in order to see a profit due to their expenses, but with our relatively low cost overhead compared to most companies, and without having had the duration of the project funded by a publisher that needs to first see a return on their investment before paying out to the developer, we can survive off a much smaller number of sales. It is pretty unlikely that we won't be able to generate further sales beyond our pre order base once the game is finished and released, and if that is the case then something has gone terribly wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Anyway, if it comes to that and they are strapped for cash, I'll donate again.
:EDIT:
BTW, epic phrase: "Of course I have patience but I augur ill."
you must have detailed knowledge of Unknown World's finances in order to predict their bankruptcy. Where do you get your info?
>lolz<
The christmas sale went well i think. And if they need it, the can easely do other sales.
For example simply saying that they are in trouble will probably generate sales, i for one bought ns2 5 times now (one special edition included).
They could also create new sales like the black armor (no, not resale the black armor, but for example have a special alien skin sale, or those smily helmets we saw in the fade reveal, stuff like that).
what i would like to have from UWE is a assurance that if they don't find new money and can't find an investor, that they release the code as opensource, since the community has invested quite some money and i'm sure somebody would try to finish the engine/code.
you must have detailed knowledge of Unknown World's finances in order to predict their bankruptcy. Where do you get your info?
>lolz<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course the only ones who know UWE's finance situation is UWE. That being said, it's a fair assumption to make that there's a real danger of the company going insolvent before release. Beta release WAS pushed forwards because they were having financial difficulties, they said as much themselves. The game is already well over a year past it's original release date and it's no-where close to being in a release state. Half the gameplay elements aren't implimented and it's only in very recent builds that the game is even really playable.
There's a lot more coding to do and that means a lot more time, especially with just a three man team. All those pre-release orders only go so far, and whilst I'm sure the Christmas sale has generated a little more cash, again it would be a reasonable assumption to make that a pre-release sale for a game that isn't anywhere close to release isn't going to generate phenominal amounts of dosh.
What UWE would do if they did go insolvent is another thing altogether. They might just release what they have and hope for enough sales for them to rush through some content/stability patches, which would be a bad outcome. They might release the code to the community to let them complete it, though the copyright issues might be murderous. I don't know if legally they HAVE to release something or refund everyone who bought the product, EULAs being what they are nowdays I wouldn't be surprised to encounter one that pledged my first born children to the publisher.
They are running a business after all, the whole point is to make money.
New companies always risk a lot with their first release, the hope is always that it does well.
UWE are going for a AAA sort of game and they are actually not that good money wise unless they're part of a franchise. They generally have big input costs and unless they're something like a world of warcraft expansion or a call of duty sequel, they don't make an absolute fortune. What they generally are is reliable and good for building a rep. A good AAA game can spawn a lot of sequels which sell well because of brand power, and they will probably make back their money and then some.
Of course if they end up going terribly, they can also cost the company a lot of money, which kinda sucks.
However don't forget that UWE made a very popular game, NS1 was a very big HL1 mod, which means it did well within its demographic. It's not unreasonable to assume the same level of quality this time round, and hopefully the same level of popularity.
Most of the marketing is done via players and community with some sites support, and the game looks good and plays a good game in the videos so its enticing enough for players to check it out.
When its released and when the current issues that plague the beta we are testing are resolved, NS 2 will be a serious contender in the FPS market.
For reference that Lead and Gold game got a lot of publicity from 1 free weekend offer, unfortunately the devs of that game didnt prepare the server side of things properly and the weekend enthusiasm was wasted because players just couldnt get gametime in... I dont see many players walking away from NS 2 when its done and sorted, not easily :).
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MEGA LOL
What a sad topic to read!
I hope you've got a BIG truck :P
BTW, epic phrase: "Of course I have patience but I augur ill."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I use a translator for that saying, i don't know how to spell it in english its like " i guess bad will happend" or "i have a bad feeling about how it ends"
@Holepuncher
"thinking" need that?
@Asraniel
If they develop in this speed, i think it will take a loooong time to finish it and release on steam.
And i buy of course more then one copy to support them ;-)
Like i say in the other Thread, i buy that for friends at Xmas.
@PaiSand
is there no Teletubby in tv right now?
And they purchase a lot of stuff, for example Havok physics engine, i am sure its not realy that cheap.
Now if I had a million Euros to spend then I would invest them here!
Now if I had a million Euros to spend then I would invest them here!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If DI gets shelved, then I will be shocked, because in 2006, their whole reasoning for making their own Engine was Source couldn't do DI, hence they wanted their own Engine so it could do what they wanted, easier.
It'd kinda be liked...defeating the purpose. But yeah man, If I hit the lotto for like 50 million, like 30 million after taxes, I'd donate them probably 250,000-500,000. Why so little compared to how much I'd get? Well, there are alot of Indie devs I like, and Mod devs I like, that I'd want to give money too, also, but of course I'd keep the majority for myself.(I'm no saint.)
Anyway,  as they have survived for this long, I kinda give them a gratuitous survivor bonus. Meaning, that <!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->my  gut instincts expect them to pull this project through<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->...Â
Obvious, really :(
No, spent is spent, they don't have it any more
<!--quoteo(post=1820398:date=Dec 31 2010, 02:24 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 31 2010, 02:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820398"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or a half finished game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No idea, depends on lot of legal questions... Â but i would bet on "no game", as this is the easiest solution to implement.
Anyway, it was venture capital for a "vision" you should have always been aware of the risk of a total loss.
I imagine it also would be very easy for them to acquire funding if they so wished, as NS1 was a very well known mod.
Many people think < 60fps = unplayable.
As someone who gets 10-15 fps and enjoys playing the game I think they're nuts! (though I cant play marine because its too laggy and stuttery to aim well)
Assuming NS2 is just moderately successful I also think UWE will have a lot of success selling Spark, once optimized, as they shown how fast and easy it is to create games using Spark.
With both NS2 and Spark as products I think UWE will be fine for the next three years.
I'm more curious if they have any interest in creating a new game or IP.
Assuming NS2 is just moderately successful I also think UWE will have a lot of success selling Spark, once optimized, as they shown how fast and easy it is to create games using Spark.
With both NS2 and Spark as products I think UWE will be fine for the next three years.
I'm more curious if they have any interest in creating a new game or IP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only real selling point of spark right now is real-time lighting. It doesn't do anything new or different, so to speak, to make it an option over something such as UDK/3, Cry, Source, Quake/Rage and other established engines.
With time though, inclusion of Direct X 10, liquids, 'real' glass and translucents, 'real' terrain generation it might be a good base for other indie developers, if they price it right and remove a lot of the horrible bugs it has.
While I don't for a moment doubt they are generating enough cash to soldier on to completion, this is simultaneously my greatest end-game hope and fear. The hope: UWE all get to keep jobs, pay their bills and live on. These are real people, remember. The fear: Activision sits down with the directors and says something along the lines of 'Look, we love what you've done here. We will finance completion. We're just going to bring in a few of our XboX and PS3 marketing people to help you fine tune the gameplay. We've got to make the game more accessible, you understand. Please sign here.'