Lets be honest

daelidaeli Join Date: 2010-04-05 Member: 71179Members
edited December 2010 in NS2 General Discussion
In its current state we don't have to talk about balance. We have to talk about performance! NS2 currently is unplayable - big stutters, lag and so on. So i'm asking the devs to concentrate on that issue first - everything else is useless right now as the game is just not in a state that you can call "beta".

As example everytime a marine pops up i get a minor stutter. For me it looks like resources get loaded into ram every time again. You guys really should look into asynchronous programming or load all resources at start.
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Comments

  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
    Thank you for this refreshing and unique take on development.





    In all seriousness, I think they are aware of the issues. It just takes time to fix.
  • daelidaeli Join Date: 2010-04-05 Member: 71179Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1817895:date=Dec 21 2010, 07:23 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Dec 21 2010, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thank you for this refreshing and unique take on development.





    In all seriousness, I think they are aware of the issues. It just takes time to fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, why do they keep talking about balance then? I don't care about balance right now...
  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    some people think cucumbers taste better than pickles.
  • ASnogarDASnogarD Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
    edited December 2010
    Its been stated before...

    Part of the dev force works on the engine , leaving the sound guy to tweak the audio, the art director to play with the art assets etc etc... if enough has been done to validate a update then the game is patched, and we get to see the fruits of the teams labour.

    ... would everyone be happier if the devs just sat on the new stuff till Max was done bug hunting and optimising ?
    Not me, I can put up with some issues as long as it is being worked on... unlike some other large company that released the game and then tried to sort out the issues ( BFBC 2 PC ), issues that was pointed out to the devs during the open demo... err beta.
  • EggcakeEggcake Join Date: 2010-12-19 Member: 75773Members
    I can remember the same complaints (alltough it was balancing that was the main concern) in the Warhammer Online closed beta. Everyone said "Why are they releasing new Ork models when the balancing still sucks?! FIX BALANCE FIRST!".

    As ASnogarD said: there are different people with different skills working on different parts of the game. Obviously, the guy who models the ork models has no f.... idea how to "fix balance"...that should be obvious ;)
  • PhasePhase Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23149Members, Constellation
    the stuttering wouldn't be all that bad if the hit detection worked properly. Currently the only way for marines to fight aliens is to grenade and flame thrower spam. Because of the aliens wide area of attack in front of them it makes it slightly easier for them to combat the marines. Since the game isn't all that optimized only 1/10 of the bullets you see hit the aliens actually do hit them.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Because if they say they are working on adding stuff and balancing stuff Obviously Max and Murphy are at home playing minecraft...


    Useless thread is useless...
  • noisywalrusnoisywalrus Join Date: 2010-12-15 Member: 75694Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1817893:date=Dec 21 2010, 01:22 PM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 21 2010, 01:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys really should look into asynchronous programming or load all resources at start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This made my day. (It's fun to see how people think computers work. :) )
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    lmg is better, shotgun could use a tiny bit more range, its almost useless outside of 2 ft
  • Dank McShwaggerDank McShwagger Join Date: 2009-06-10 Member: 67784Members
    talking about balance now is kinda pointless since a good amount of the games features still havnt been implemented... balancing the game as it is now will just require further balancing as new stuff is added in.
  • GeneralBowserGeneralBowser Join Date: 2010-05-19 Member: 71801Members
    edited December 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1817924:date=Dec 21 2010, 09:05 PM:name=Phase)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phase @ Dec 21 2010, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817924"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the stuttering wouldn't be all that bad if the hit detection worked properly. Currently the only way for marines to fight aliens is to grenade and flame thrower spam. Because of the aliens wide area of attack in front of them it makes it slightly easier for them to combat the marines. Since the game isn't all that optimized only 1/10 of the bullets you see hit the aliens actually do hit them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's not that bad I would say I kill about half as fast as on NS1, you just have to get close so you hit more ;-)
    Use the shotgun, it allows you to go pretty close since you can one hit kill one with shotty :p

    Oh and don't wander off by yourself ;-)

    On a sidenote: the last build was better, I'm downloading the new now, so I hope they fixed preformance a bit..
  • TwiggehTwiggeh Join Date: 2010-09-24 Member: 74165Members
    Funny how i've had tons of balanced and very fun rounds in an unplayable game, for several patches.


    Hmmm..
  • SilverwingSilverwing bulletsponge Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23395Members, Constellation
    Yes! By all means lets be honest... Ahem, here goes:

    The beta plays very nicely and several balance issues have cropped up and have been addressed by UWE.
    Also, performance is climbing at a good clip and servercrashes are now comparatively infrequent.

    Nublets are still beaching but these *are* treacherous waters...

    As for whatever you said: Oh. Bye, can I have your stuff?
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    <b>Some people</b> can play NS2 comfortably. Understandably, those people <b>are playing NS2</b>. Some people aren't playing NS2 comfortably. Both groups of people need to be catered toward, and <b>are</b> being catered toward. The first group of people are important because they keep the servers populated, the second group of people are important because they contribute to the growth of the playerbase. This keeps overall server activity healthy as time goes on.
  • TacotaTacota Join Date: 2009-10-12 Member: 69027Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1817929:date=Dec 21 2010, 04:11 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 21 2010, 04:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because if they say they are working on adding stuff and balancing stuff Obviously Max and Murphy are at home playing minecraft...


    Useless thread is useless...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1817968:date=Dec 21 2010, 02:45 PM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Dec 21 2010, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Funny how i've had tons of balanced and very fun rounds in an unplayable game, for several patches.


    Hmmm..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    He might have crappier hardware or is simply used to less laggy fps play. I suspect a lot of the people who post on this forum/bought the NS2 a/b either have state-of-the-art (or pretty close) hardware or play a lot of mods/alphas/betas and are used to the problems.
  • TagertsweTagertswe Join Date: 2010-03-04 Member: 70825Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1817929:date=Dec 21 2010, 10:11 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 21 2010, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because if they say they are working on adding stuff and balancing stuff Obviously Max and Murphy are at home playing minecraft...


    Useless thread is useless...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    lmao
  • daelidaeli Join Date: 2010-04-05 Member: 71179Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1818415:date=Dec 22 2010, 04:36 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Dec 22 2010, 04:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He might have crappier hardware or is simply used to less laggy fps play. I suspect a lot of the people who post on this forum/bought the NS2 a/b either have state-of-the-art (or pretty close) hardware or play a lot of mods/alphas/betas and are used to the problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've made a video showing my issue:

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hz1g-Zl0Oc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hz1g-Zl0Oc</a>

    And my specs are:

    NVidia GTA 470
    AMD Phenom 1090T X6
    4GB DDR3 RAM
    7200 rpm/90Mb/s HDD
  • Bobby is going homeBobby is going home Join Date: 2010-04-11 Member: 71323Awaiting Authorization
    Can you reproduce it on a local server with just you playing?
  • daelidaeli Join Date: 2010-04-05 Member: 71179Members
    edited December 2010
    It is reduced (due to lack of other players) but still present.
  • GeneralBowserGeneralBowser Join Date: 2010-05-19 Member: 71801Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1818422:date=Dec 22 2010, 06:06 PM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 22 2010, 06:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818422"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've made a video showing my issue:

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hz1g-Zl0Oc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hz1g-Zl0Oc</a>

    And my specs are:

    NVidia GTA 470
    AMD Phenom 1090T X6
    4GB DDR3 RAM
    7200 rpm/90Mb/s HDD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Very similar to how it looks on my screen. I have the same stuttering. If you look back at older vids of the engine test, you notice some stuttering aswell (and I did had some), but it has gotten worse.
    Despite of that the game is more playable for me since the connection problems are less every patch..
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1818497:date=Dec 22 2010, 01:38 PM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 22 2010, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is reduced (due to lack of other players) but still present.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    that looks like lag to me. plz post a vid on a lan. could be your hd too
  • daelidaeli Join Date: 2010-04-05 Member: 71179Members
    edited December 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1818505:date=Dec 22 2010, 08:47 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 22 2010, 08:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818505"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that looks like lag to me. plz post a vid on a lan. could be your hd too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It is not lag - believe me please. Its not in ANY way related to lag! Normally i have a ping of 15-20ms on the internet.
  • BluePhishBluePhish Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24364Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I have the same here, but still playable
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1818515:date=Dec 22 2010, 01:54 PM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 22 2010, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818515"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is not lag - believe me please. Its not in ANY way related to lag! Normally i have a ping of 15-20ms on the internet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    just saying, the video you posted happens to me as well when im playing on servers where i ping 120+. which is why you should also post a lan vid with bots like some others have done recently.
  • jamieshepherdjamieshepherd Join Date: 2009-09-04 Member: 68693Members
    For everyone who's stupid enough to believe it is lag, please read this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112059" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112059</a> thread where the issue is described in more detail.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1818544:date=Dec 22 2010, 10:09 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 22 2010, 10:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is obviously an engine issue. Please read this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112059" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112059</a> thread where the issue is described in more detail.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fixed that for you and would you just stop the frigging flame-baiting and condescending tone you keep using in your posts. It only turns this forum in a powder keg, just waiting to explode. There is absolutely no need for that behavior...

    I was on the "report this post" page, but I don't like to point the finger at someone anonymously. This just had to be said, it's like people are either ignoring your posting behavior or simply are afraid of flames coming their way.



    And yes we know the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112059" target="_blank">NS2 Gameplay Stutter thread</a> is a good one. The video's and Fraps benchmarks are really painting a picture of what is wrong and Wheeee seems to have found a possible cause as well.
  • 1stToast1stToast Join Date: 2007-12-02 Member: 63067Members
    To quote and old phrase, "When you're up to your A$$ in alligators, It's hard to remember the job is to drain the swamp." We've waited a long time for this and we'll have to wait more time. Give the devs a break. 160 cleared up a few more bugs and it's pretty playable for me. 25-40 FPS and few lag spikes. I'm happy with the progress so far.
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    I don't think it's useless. It's not very useful, but it's not nothing.

    It lets developers know somebody had thought their bugs were so bad they deserved a thread just devoted to their severity. This is useful. This is informing developers of how widespread Big Huge Bugs are in the community.

    The complaint probably should have gone in another thread or on getsatisfaction, describing the nature of the bugs very accurately along with the hardware the bugs were experienced on.

    But again, it serves some purpose.
  • daelidaeli Join Date: 2010-04-05 Member: 71179Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1818562:date=Dec 22 2010, 10:57 PM:name=1stToast)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1stToast @ Dec 22 2010, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To quote and old phrase, "When you're up to your A$$ in alligators, It's hard to remember the job is to drain the swamp." We've waited a long time for this and we'll have to wait more time. Give the devs a break. 160 cleared up a few more bugs and it's pretty playable for me. 25-40 FPS and few lag spikes. I'm happy with the progress so far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I prefer reporting bugs rather than talking good about the game while it isnt. The devs appreciate our work reporting such issues you can be sure. Doesn't mean i don't like NS2 - i just want it to be playable!
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