Leader boards for all weapons/aliens is a must have
Rollen
Join Date: 2010-12-20 Member: 75800Members
Join Date: 2010-12-20 Member: 75800Members
In this day and age in gaming leader boards and achievements is what keeps most competitive players playing all the time which is why I believe you need leader boards.
The leader boards can be defined as weapons for marines such as a Shot Gun leaderboard or a Flamethrower leader board, pistol leader board etc etc. And aliens can be defined by types like Skulk, Fade etc etc. I think this would add a great element to the game and is a must have on launch day if you want to add on to this already great game and show how serious you are about giving competitive players a new home.
The leader boards can be defined as weapons for marines such as a Shot Gun leaderboard or a Flamethrower leader board, pistol leader board etc etc. And aliens can be defined by types like Skulk, Fade etc etc. I think this would add a great element to the game and is a must have on launch day if you want to add on to this already great game and show how serious you are about giving competitive players a new home.
Comments
Because I doubt most clanners will care much for achievements, when it is much more rewarding to rank up in a league or ladder with a team. I myself couldn't care less about personal achievments in a team game like NS2.
I honestly see no point in weapon specific leader boards for NS2. These things can be easily manipulated and lack any real information value. Say someone has 10:1 stats, does that mean he is good or that he shot an afk skulk 10 times? Statistics would be nice for personal use, but as a global leader board... I don't know.
Because I doubt most clanners will care much for achievements, when it is much more rewarding to rank up in a league or ladder with a team. I myself couldn't care less about personal achievments in a team game like NS2.
I honestly see no point in weapon specific leader boards for NS2. These things can be easily manipulated and lack any real information value. Say someone has 10:1 stats, does that mean he is good or that he shot an afk skulk 10 times? Statistics would be nice for personal use, but as a global leader board... I don't know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
non-clan players and clan players alike would enjoy it. I am in a clan myself and we like the leader boards and seeing whose doing good regardless of whether its being fixed or not. Leaderboards of any kind are always a double edge sword and you'll always get the game riggers for anything. Even league requirements. Sorry but your reasons for not having it doesn't feel very strong. If it won't bother you then why not? Also achievements should always be a given for every game and my idea was more towards the leader boards and was just using achievements as a example for a extra incentive to keep playing the game.
I'm not spouting non-sense here I know what I'm talking about and I know exactly what the new gamers are looking for in games whether I agree with it or not. I'm just here trying to help improve the game and I don't see how a leader board would hurt NS2 when it's helped so many lack luster games.
now, when you say "it's helped so many lack luster games" were you implying that NS2 is a lack luster game and needs it?
now, when you say "it's helped so many lack luster games" were you implying that NS2 is a lack luster game and needs it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I was implying that a feature that seems useless to some helps even bad games look good. Not that NS2 is one of them :P.
I personally dont care about achievements or "invidual ladder" but someone may get kicks from them.
As for the rest of it, I'd strongly try to avoid features that promote prolonging the game or placing the individual priorities over the team's objectives. Due to the RTS nature the games often have situations where it doesn't serve any purpose to play frag happy or to avoid finishing the game.
I wouldn't mind having res biter, capper or parasiter leaderboards in NS1 though, since all are team effort actions that have to be done regularly throughout the round. From that point on it gets a lot more difficult to find reasonable statistics that didn't reward some kind of unnecessarily stubborn or abusive play.
Oh I'm not saying there shouldn't be any achievements. I just see them more as motivation for casual players instead of competitive ones. Flayra collected achievement ideas in the past and I'm pretty sure some will make it in.
As for the leader boards, I was just saying that I find weapon leader boards kind of pointless. I'd rather see leader boards based on TrueSkill or similiar measures. Those aren't perfect as well, but a lot better than weapon stats.
+1
A good clan/team ladder/match-up system is more in the spirit of NS.
As for the leader boards, I was just saying that I find weapon leader boards kind of pointless. I'd rather see leader boards based on TrueSkill or similiar measures. Those aren't perfect as well, but a lot better than weapon stats.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
casual players and hardcore player alike love leader boards, i know a lot of perfectionist who play very serious when in games that love to see their names in shining lights on a scoreboard for everyone to see. The casual gamers are what we need to help a game thrive and the fact that this can help them feel special and give them a goal will help keep them around. If NS2 caters a portion of it that doesn't "physically" effect the competitive co-operative style of the game ( which leader boards does not effect team co-op at all especially if you are in a clan and not in a random multiplayer team ) then the game will be much more enjoyable.
By nature NS2 is a game that demands team play and strategy so I don't see how adding a leader board for the selfish players ( who would other wise Troll all of us by sitting in a command center and doing nonsense because there are no consequences to his actions ) would game play and the STRONG nature of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1818069:date=Dec 21 2010, 07:43 PM:name=ownos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ownos @ Dec 21 2010, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1
A good clan/team ladder/match-up system is more in the spirit of NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would be more then happy to welcome a registered clan leader system if they have they can pull it off by letting us create clans/teams in the game that would be great but I think that would require a system like on the consoles where you team up with friends and search for a compatible opponents and I'm sure none of us want that :P. But if they can pull it off with out that it would be great.
In-game clan system would be pretty pimp. However, there are more pressing concerns until then.
And until then, the community has a bad habit of setting stuff like this up.
Back on topic, it really only harms about 10-20% of games in my experience (see Dystopia's leaderboards). So, meh, don't care. Just as long as it doesn't take time away from more critical stuff. Perhaps something to put on the backburner.
It's not people that they don't have it's money for it xD. If they didn't want to make the game better by taking on our ideas and suggestion then whats the point of this forum category? :P It's not right to say they don't have the time for my idea when others are doing the same thing.
Having said that, there is a problem of priorities - the developers can't afford, at this point, to commit time or resources to these "additional" features.
I think the biggest thing to consider is: is it ethical to reverse engineer a 3rd party production and release it officially, or how much can the developers accept from the community, and how do you tackle the issue of compensation? I think that there are a lot of great things that come out of the community which should be official.
Having said that, there is a problem of priorities - the developers can't afford, at this point, to commit time or resources to these "additional" features.
I think the biggest thing to consider is: is it ethical to reverse engineer a 3rd party production and release it officially, or how much can the developers accept from the community, and how do you tackle the issue of compensation? I think that there are a lot of great things that come out of the community which should be official.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know many of you big posters here so I dunno how far your influence goes down the rabbit hole, but I find it astonishing how everyone seems to know what the developers are to busy to do and their business schedule. They must be very open with every one here behind doors.
It's a given that they will continue to work on the core features of the game I doubt that one day they'll come to my post or any other post that some of you disagree should be on a priority list and give up on developing the core of the game.
From where you are coming at it sounds like adding a simple feature will destroy the fundamentals of the entire game to the point where they have to completely rebuild it which makes no sense to me how adding a table that gathers data be so complicated. I'm not trying to belittle the difficulty of game programing but is it me that's getting the wrong message from you guys or are you really telling me a leaderboard would take to much time and effort that will cause the game to go downhill on it's core features?
Also, my post (that you quoted) was actually a reply to the post directly above mine. If you look at it in that context, you'll notice I'm actually very supportive of your idea, and very supportive of the idea being official rather than 3rd party.
What I was then discussing was, should someone implement the above idea as a 3rd-party plug-in, how ethical would it be for the developers to then take that idea and officialise it, whether by directly taking the implementation (and you'd assume there'd be some kind of compensation) or by reverse-engineering the implementation (and then you'd at least have to give someone credit).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From where you are coming at it sounds like adding a simple feature will destroy the fundamentals of the entire game to the point where they have to completely rebuild it which makes no sense to me how adding a table that gathers data be so complicated. I'm not trying to belittle the difficulty of game programing but is it me that's getting the wrong message from you guys or are you really telling me a leaderboard would take to much time and effort that will cause the game to go downhill on it's core features?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is an incorrect inference (at least in my case). I don't know if others have implied that or not, but if they have, it's a ridiculous argument.
Also, my post (that you quoted) was actually a reply to the post directly above mine. If you look at it in that context, you'll notice I'm actually very supportive of your idea, and very supportive of the idea being official rather than 3rd party.
What I was then discussing was, should someone implement the above idea as a 3rd-party plug-in, how ethical would it be for the developers to then take that idea and officialise it, whether by directly taking the implementation (and you'd assume there'd be some kind of compensation) or by reverse-engineering the implementation (and then you'd at least have to give someone credit).
That is an incorrect inference (at least in my case). I don't know if others have implied that or not, but if they have, it's a ridiculous argument.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol sorry I've been coming on here after working 3rd shift and my brain is half asleep. Excuse me for mixing up stuff lol. I've been reading the blogs but I didnt know about all the other stuff it's good to know thanks.
I have played alot of games... alot....
ranging from games like TF2 and L4D which contain achievements... personally i felt them rewarding and challenging and they boosted the game and were alot better and it was one of the aspects of the games that i so much cherished.
i think achievements are GOOD but are not needed... like having a bunch of steam achievements like in TF2 or L4D or other games where they have tacky names to them like:
Hungry Hungry Onos
devour 10 marines in one game
or
Marine of Death
kill five alien players within ten seconds
or
paramedic of doom
heal 10000 hit points as a gorge
or
out of ammo? not a problem
rifle butt ten aliens in one game
See my point? now these are one of the achievements that are great and really amusing and proud to whoever randomly gets it... what i sometimes hate is when people purposely see through their achievements and try to achieve them. i feel that is what the achievement concept has fallen to and that is why achievement servers in TF2 exist and see to ruin the fun!
ANOTHER kind is like the one in dawn of war 2... true skill rank... game statistics...
we could have a leaderboard or a personal one that doesnt have to be compared with other players... this could be like:
how many skulks/onos/fades/gorge/hives you have killed
how many games you win/lost
how many games on alien side and how many on marine
Most used weapon
most used life form
highest score in a game ever and perhaps an average of every game
This is another kind that is just statistical and useful for the player on a personal level... this is in no way competitive and is just for the player to know oh so thats me and i am like this.
Now the competitive leader boards that might happen are very very competitive. it can be like a database of whos the highest amount of kills with which weapons/life form
how many of these kind of kills in games, how many on average
how many wins with aliens or marines, these types of information are very directed to everyone and people look at them and are proud when they are... lets say XXX place for best amount of flamethrower kills ETC
PERSONALLY i like what i stated very first and second, but a competitive leader board i find is not nessesary, this would just ruin the game and cause it to be more a single player every man for himself game that he tries to get as many kills as he can and not work as a team and win the game (unless that is his target)
So yeah...
what do you think?
On topic: Unlock an achievement for achieving a certain stat; from that point on, you place on the ladder. There, you have the best of both worlds.
it will show thier record of devours... spit kills.. wins:defeat ratio... fade kills... hydra kills... etc.
OR
this will be on a leader board... a ladder that is VERY competitive against eachother and causes HAVOC as people will start to play ns2 like a one man show and try to get as many kills as possible and never help the team and just use their plasma on life forms to rape the marines and no teamwork is coordinated.
OR
we have the crazy awesome achievements like in TF2 and L4d where they are very cool and have silly names and are amusing to you and others when achieved:
examples:
Hungry Hungry Onos
devour 10 marines in one game
or
Marine of Death
kill five alien players within ten seconds
or
paramedic of doom
heal 10000 hit points as a gorge
or
out of ammo? not a problem
rifle butt ten aliens in one game
well what do you think?
Keep it simple:
Achieve a stat (one per category) -> gain an Achievement. -> place on the ladder for that category -> given a rank according to performance under that category.
Essentially means you can't place on the ladder, until you've achieved something, a minimum acceptable benchmark: prevents too much clutter in the ladder rankings (so you don't have people with negligible stats under that category ranked under that category)
Edit: just realised there'd be a problem with achievement-whoring, though - it'd still lead to ladder clutter.