First impressions of a brand new player
jasta07
Join Date: 2010-12-11 Member: 75614Members
Join Date: 2010-12-11 Member: 75614Members
This is just a quick first impressions post after playing one or two games. Not trying to make this deep feedback but just some stuff that jumped out from the start. Apologies if any of this is old news or know issues.
This is going to be sound pretty critical - but I'm well aware it's still beta so no hard feelings :)
1) The join game button is at the bottom of the servers list is not very intuitive. Noob mistake I know but I closed and restarted the game like three times and went on a forum troll before I worked out that you don't double click the server or click any of the buttons on the left to join. The join button down the bottom just looks like a text box or something.
2) The game already looks and feels really slick. The graphics are great and the atmosphere feels awesome. Props guys :)
3) The little help blurbs are very handy but overall it's still confusing - Especially the marine buildings... they all look pretty similar. Any chance you could put different coloured lights on them so like the armory is red, power blue or something? This may already be the case but it's not distinct enough.
4) This one may be a little personal preference but after so many semi-realistic shooters like CoD and BF, not having an 'aim down sight' feature feels very old school. I know the original NS <b>is</b> old school but it's something that leaps out and says "this is weird". After about half an hour I stopped noticing though. May be a deal breaker for some people though.
5) The keys for running up walls as an alien seems a little odd. Just using the mouse to climb and then pressing a key to let go seems back the front. I kinda want to hold a key to stick to the wall no matter what - "I'm holding on... and I let go when I want to" not "Ok now I'm on a wall but I'll probably fall off at some random time"
6) Doors, vents and other shortcuts need to stand out a bit more. It can be quite hard to tell where they are. Maybe more lights or some signs etc?
Anyway that's my n00b feedback and first impressions. Already excited to see how the game progresses :)
This is going to be sound pretty critical - but I'm well aware it's still beta so no hard feelings :)
1) The join game button is at the bottom of the servers list is not very intuitive. Noob mistake I know but I closed and restarted the game like three times and went on a forum troll before I worked out that you don't double click the server or click any of the buttons on the left to join. The join button down the bottom just looks like a text box or something.
2) The game already looks and feels really slick. The graphics are great and the atmosphere feels awesome. Props guys :)
3) The little help blurbs are very handy but overall it's still confusing - Especially the marine buildings... they all look pretty similar. Any chance you could put different coloured lights on them so like the armory is red, power blue or something? This may already be the case but it's not distinct enough.
4) This one may be a little personal preference but after so many semi-realistic shooters like CoD and BF, not having an 'aim down sight' feature feels very old school. I know the original NS <b>is</b> old school but it's something that leaps out and says "this is weird". After about half an hour I stopped noticing though. May be a deal breaker for some people though.
5) The keys for running up walls as an alien seems a little odd. Just using the mouse to climb and then pressing a key to let go seems back the front. I kinda want to hold a key to stick to the wall no matter what - "I'm holding on... and I let go when I want to" not "Ok now I'm on a wall but I'll probably fall off at some random time"
6) Doors, vents and other shortcuts need to stand out a bit more. It can be quite hard to tell where they are. Maybe more lights or some signs etc?
Anyway that's my n00b feedback and first impressions. Already excited to see how the game progresses :)
Comments
We will get a laser on our pistol in the future though (it has 2 modes, one fires with more force, and this is where we will get our lazer)
@ 5, the wallwalk is much better this way, because it is fast paced. Doing walkwalk circles around marines and when you get better with the skulk, you will learn to appreciate not having to hold down a key constantly. As a matter of fact, you would actually start to hate the holding of a key (if it was set up like that) to do something which comes natural to the skulk. Basically a skulk has to walk walk like a madman to survive. The letting go of the wall/ceiling is used for dropping down onto unsuspecting marines
I'm kinda confused as to why you're not talking about the Fade blink mechanics, I find that quite weird and annoying (with the automatic facing targets and stuff), or maybe even the Lerks flight system.
Doors and vents need a better indicator, maybe Alien only so marines won't get an advantage when they can clearly see the entrances.
All in all good questions and suggestions, oh and welcome :)
More of these first impressions would be gold, if anyone has a bro or friend who could offer some other first impressions- and what their background is.
What you'd normally spend your first $10K on in market research.
(<Marketing Background in Software )
Nowadays, it just feels weird when I can't right-click to aim down sights.
Sometimes you remove mechanics because they get in the way.
That's where the DI would come in, or a creep prop/texture, whatever comes first.
A melee attack is unfair to the skulk that got through the marines ranged abilities and still has to contend with marines melee attack ( yes I know parasite is ranged and does damage, take away the parasite damage to balance it if you want :P ).
Aiming down sights will give a waltching alien some visual feedback on how alert and combat ready the marine is, and the marine will get a accuracy boost but at the cost of narrowing / limiting his view of the action.
If you must keep in melee make a general all purpose melee button, and map right click to the aim down sight.
My opinion of course :)
3) You'll get used to it in time. On NS1 it happened to me and I get used to in no time, about a week or 2.
4) An iron sight will not fit on NS2, more to the old player base. Actually I feel it weird, even that I played DoD since was released and it have it, I found it distracting and it blocks too much on screen. I don't know, perhaps I'm too used to not have it on NS. But with the pistol you have something similar to this (does the rifle have it?).
5) Wallrun is my favourite feature of the Skulk. On a close combat you can leap to wall, move over it (or not), turn and leap back, or leap to the ceiling or fast away of marines. You get attached to the wall without the need to press any other key, which make it perfect to get around a marine, or a group of marines shooting at you. When you master this movement marines start getting insane.
6) Could be, but then you lose the explore the map part. Some times you find a vent that no one saw it before and you can use it to "surprise" marines.
Regarding iron-sights I don't think it will work too well. Why?
Well the other modern FPS-games doesn't involve the other team going at you with claws and teeth, they are supposed to be kept at a distance while you are shooting, often across a large map. Adding a sharpshooting feature into claustrophobic space corridors-game where the other team does all they can to get close to you by ambushing in the ceiling or suddenly appearing beside you... somehow I'm not seeing myself using that too much unless it's against a Lerk who will be out of sight in a wingbeat anyway.
Still it's an additional feature and I'm not against that, but it's a quite pointless one. Something you'd shrug your shoulders the first time playing the game and asking "okay, why did they even add it?".
Edit: Maybe the sharpshooting weapon of choice could be the pistol; instead of switching modes with right-click it could be brought up into iron-sights with a bit of zoom, maybe add the laser-pointer while aiming with each shot dealing more damage. That way you'd have a semi-sniper weapon, iron-sights and a sidearm would be pretty awesome for taking out annoying Lerks or Gorges wobbling away along a corridor.
I'd love to see iron sights in NS2, wonder how the devs would feel about this.
Feedback from players completely new to NS and NS2 is most likely the most valuable when it comes to assessing accessibility.
Regarding iron sights:
As numerous people have already pointed out: Iron sights, as implemented in any other shooter restrict your movement and block your view by a large margin. The way NS2 is laid out aiming down your sight would result in a deadly disadvantage for the marine.
A way to make sights viable would be to allow you access thermo vision or advanced motion tracking, when aiming down your sight. Although I can see most veterans just taking a quick peek down the sight and then going on as usual.
Thus said: It is a viable option, but you cannot simply implement it the COD/DOD/"insert other slow paced game" way.
Still, now that I think about it... It is kinda good feature, with adding more risk to the camping part...
Where was I going with this...
<b>
TLDR;</b>
Oh wait, here's the thing. Since NS2 is a claustrophobic game, zooming in makes you very vulnerable. As is basically decreases your FoV and your slowing down your aim and seriously impacting your ability to fly at lork speeds
Welome to NS2 and to the forums.
--Cory
He was reluctant to join a real world server until he "learned how it worked": so he made his own server. He decided to join rines. When he first got in game it was total deer in the headlights. He had no idea what a command station was. That he could get in it to build stuff. What the extractor was, the two resource varieties. IPs. Power nodes etc. He was basically laughing at the game complexity as I started to go through it (laughing as in "omg thats a lot").
I guess the biggest thing that struck me was he wanted to learn outside a competitive environment, which I totally understand given how unsympathetic regular players can be to new players. Who plays starcraft multiplayer before running the single player? He thought that making his own server would be sufficient for him to learn about the game. Again I think a reasonable assumption, lots of people play with bots as a way of first learning the game, particularly for FPS. I guess that's where NS2 is different. But its hard to recognise that difference before youre in game- and the damage is done.
Some serious thought needs to be given to reduce this learning curve. If I was doing market research on this game, granted there would be many more people in the sample! But there seems to be a categorical burning need for a tutorial mechanism. Not too teach the game, that's way too difficult. Just to give people a warm bath entry, explain some of the major concepts, and let them feel a bit in control.
But the need for a tutorial is getting desperate, I mean it was one thing when NS1 was "just a mod" and you had to be somewhat determined/knowledgeable to even get it set up to play, but an official real game has to introduce players more gently.
It comes back to the target. Who is the game being directed at? What age group? If you're targeting a niche market "most complex game" or "next gen competitive game" as a market position will be fine. But UWE need to sell hundreds of thousands of copies to get a reasonable return- particularly if those venture capitalists are still connected to the project. And we need all those sales so the game stays around! A niche position won't return those numbers.
Given UWE will already be distributing through steam- the easiest market to reach for those sort of numbers will be bored TF2 players. There is a big community of older players on there. They tend to like the strategic/team-work side (rather than the twitch fest that is CS). They have alot of money to spend (just look at how much Valve is making off the Manco store). Alot of them are dissatisfied with the new 'trading systems' which are polluting the game, and that they have to share TF2 with young kids (the other major playing group), and they're really not being served at the moment. [The SC2 crowd would be nice- but their going to be hard to target en masse]
That target isn't going to be wowed with bull###### trailers. The media coming from UWE should reak of "gameplay" and "teamwork". With the last trailer UWE fell into the trap of trying to be just like larger studios. Selling on flashy fade effects. That's why NS2HD is doing such an awesome job.
As far as I can tell most pieces are falling into place for UWE. They've repaired most of the damage caused by the early alpha/beta release. They need to suck up to valve something fierce and they really need to focus on a nice big juicy group of gamers to setup a good market beach-head.
He was reluctant to join a real world server until he "learned how it worked": so he made his own server. He decided to join rines. When he first got in game it was total deer in the headlights. He had no idea what a command station was. That he could get in it to build stuff. What the extractor was, the two resource varieties. IPs. Power nodes etc. He was basically laughing at the game complexity as I started to go through it (laughing as in "omg thats a lot").
I guess the biggest thing that struck me was he wanted to learn outside a competitive environment, which I totally understand given how unsympathetic regular players can be to new players. Who plays starcraft multiplayer before running the single player? He thought that making his own server would be sufficient for him to learn about the game. Again I think a reasonable assumption, lots of people play with bots as a way of first learning the game, particularly for FPS. I guess that's where NS2 is different. But its hard to recognise that difference before youre in game- and the damage is done.
Some serious thought needs to be given to reduce this learning curve. If I was doing market research on this game, granted there would be many more people in the sample! But there seems to be a categorical burning need for a tutorial mechanism. Not too teach the game, that's way too difficult. Just to give people a warm bath entry, explain some of the major concepts, and let them feel a bit in control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Similar thing could be said for TF2/CSS/etc. The biggest difference is the commander which adds a whole new level of complexity (but is also a selling point because it makes the game an RTS/FPS rather than FPS).
Maybe a good way of solving this is to create a tutorial map, which people could create as a server and learn all the basic building, weapons, alien types. Ideally, such a map would include either text or audio commands (get in cs, build MAC, drop armory, build armory, etc.) and involve basic marine and alien bots the players could either command or fight. However, an intro manual or tutorial video might also work. I think the key would be that whatever option is available from the in-game menu rather than requiring the player to track down something outside of the game.
Two word answer: Cinematic Editor.
Long answer: The Cinematic Editor is the best choice for solving the tutorial problem. This would allow UW or the community (yes, we could contribute content). Once Cinematic(s) or "In-game demo videos" are done all that would need to be done there is linking in the Menu option(s) to show/list and play those cinematic scenes. The Cinematic Editor is how UW has made all of the reveal videos thus-far. This biggest (code wise, not time/content/voice overs/etc.) that would need to be done is adding new Menu functionality for the "Tutorials Section" and saving if a new player has watched the tutorials or not (some kind of profile data).
This just seems like the best option out of what we currently have to work with. Hell, UW could have this on the to-do list, who knows. Sound like a good idea?
Pointless Edit: Woo! 100th post =P
The right kind of people don't get owned 5 times in a row.
<!--quoteo(post=1815984:date=Dec 15 2010, 09:43 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Dec 15 2010, 09:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815984"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Similar thing could be said for TF2/CSS/etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That isn't true at all.
In CSS, you pick a weapon, you go and shoot.
In TF2, you pick a class, you go and shoot, and maybe achieve some objective. Spies, medics and engineers grant some degree of variation.
The complexity hasn't increased much.
Now, in NS, someone gets into the command centre, someone builds structures, which structures?, you reload at the armoury structure, you go and shoot, and you achieve constantly changing objectives, your primary objective, the destruction of the alien team, is much further off, you go and destroy structures, you defend locations, you acquire resources, you hold the USE key to help build structures, at the same time the commander must research technologies, the commander must supply ammunition, health, constantly build new structures, new researches, all the while giving orders and surveying the battlefield, the player must watch out for aliens from unusual directions, the player must know how to deal with the unusual shape, movement and abilities of aliens; and it goes on and on and on... and that's just the marine side of things.
That isn't true at all.
In CSS, you pick a weapon, you go and shoot.
In TF2, you pick a class, you go and shoot, and maybe achieve some objective. Spies, medics and engineers grant some degree of variation.
The complexity hasn't increased much.
Now, in NS, someone gets into the command centre, someone builds structures, which structures?, you reload at the armoury structure, you go and shoot, and you achieve constantly changing objectives, your primary objective, the destruction of the alien team, is much further off, you go and destroy structures, you defend locations, you acquire resources, you hold the USE key to help build structures, at the same time the commander must research technologies, the commander must supply ammunition, health, constantly build new structures, new researches, all the while giving orders and surveying the battlefield, the player must watch out for aliens from unusual directions, the player must know how to deal with the unusual shape, movement and abilities of aliens; and it goes on and on and on... and that's just the marine side of things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
everyone gets owned five times in a row occasionally.
*sigh* The Fade reveal was not a trailer. Was never meant to be a trailer. It was the final alien reveal, done in the same style as the other reveals, and we wanted to spend some time making a cool video for all the people who'd been anxiously waiting for the Fade to finally be shown. For whatever reason, the press decided to label it as a trailer when it was sent out.
We are currently working on a real gameplay trailer, with actual in game footage.
--Cory
I had the same thing the first time I played NS2 (and I used to play ns1 back in the days). "Get off me skulks I am trying to find out how this game works!". Maybe some servers dedicated to training new players would help, especially when more experienced players volunteer to educate them a bit? Maybe even a few PvE (or rather, a nonPvP) server to find out more about the game mechanics?
That isn't true at all.
In CSS, you pick a weapon, you go and shoot.
In TF2, you pick a class, you go and shoot, and maybe achieve some objective. Spies, medics and engineers grant some degree of variation.
The complexity hasn't increased much.
Now, in NS, someone gets into the command centre, someone builds structures, which structures?, you reload at the armoury structure, you go and shoot, and you achieve constantly changing objectives, your primary objective, the destruction of the alien team, is much further off, you go and destroy structures, you defend locations, you acquire resources, you hold the USE key to help build structures, at the same time the commander must research technologies, the commander must supply ammunition, health, constantly build new structures, new researches, all the while giving orders and surveying the battlefield, the player must watch out for aliens from unusual directions, the player must know how to deal with the unusual shape, movement and abilities of aliens; and it goes on and on and on... and that's just the marine side of things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clearly NS2 is not for everyone, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.
No they don't, because most people tend to rage quit or lame join :P