<!--quoteo(post=1815190:date=Dec 11 2010, 10:11 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Dec 11 2010, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, alright. Let me try to make this seem better than it feels in-game.
Early aggressive strategies are more powerful the younger a RTS game is. It's easier to just all-in kamikaze attack than figuring out how to stop that all-in attack. And once a certain all-in attack is figured out over a week to a month, three more flavors of all-in attacks have already appeared to take its place. This is <i>especially</i> true in NS, where each team starts with the maximum number of soldiers and don't have to build up soldier numbers during the first five minutes before attacking.
You've done the right thing complaining so developers can see testers' opinions. But don't blame the other testers. They're encouraged to experiment with abusive strategies so any imbalances can be patched before release. It's kind of like tough love. You don't really like it when it happens to you, but making people aware of the problems will make the game better for release.
Unknown Worlds Entertainment is going to get a closer "official" playtesting team, so any the community says is broken can be tested very quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Starting the marines with a few sentries covering the base and the aliens with a couple of whips to keep axers off the hive would be nice though, there's no real reason why games should end in a rush, it isn't fun, you should always be able to get the game started at least. It would also force some more inventive approaches to attacking, assuming there are at least two routes out of spawn, it would make it harder to pin people in if the spawn was a no-go until you tech up a little bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1815153:date=Dec 11 2010, 09:29 PM:name=Drako)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drako @ Dec 11 2010, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815153"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please nerf flamethrower so it only harms structures but does nearly no damage to lifeforms until there are alien upgrades to minimize flame damage implemented<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1815154:date=Dec 11 2010, 09:34 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 11 2010, 09:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rofl, are you serious? Ahahahaha<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps i wasn't clear enough;) what i meant is only to nerf the flamer temporary so it doesn't kill the game until the alien counters to the flamerthrowers are in e.g Onos or a "less flame damage"upgrade in on of the new chambers. because its really no fun if you can't survive even if you manage to escape as a skulk because the DoT is killing you a few secs later.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
Alright people, can I have a WHOOHOO!
<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Here's a shoutout to out guys! UWE you guys rule! With each and every step it is getting closer to a game. Kuddos, job well done!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Have a cold one guys: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer</a>
k it is still rockdown, but with 6vs6 it is indeed VERY playable. Mah skulk powers amaze even me, Fade is still weird as hell to use though >_>
[edit] yeh, i'm just exited to finally being able to Skulk and harras marines again without fps or lag issues. It's been a long time, since I've played NS1 (where it did work :P)
<!--quoteo(post=1815241:date=Dec 11 2010, 07:50 PM:name=Drako)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drako @ Dec 11 2010, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps i wasn't clear enough;) what i meant is only to nerf the flamer temporary so it doesn't kill the game until the alien counters to the flamerthrowers are in e.g Onos or a "less flame damage"upgrade in on of the new chambers. because its really no fun if you can't survive even if you manage to escape as a skulk because the DoT is killing you a few secs later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nerfing something temporarily like this only hurts balance later on in the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1815093:date=Dec 11 2010, 09:35 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 11 2010, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OK so I finally managed to play it. Lag is significantly worse than the previous build. Lots of rubber banding, and game stutters a lot which ruin combat. Hydras were still causing lag.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How many hydras were there? I imagine the number of hydra's needed to lag a server is much higher than in previous builds. I played a game last night on ns_rockdown where the gorge dropped around 20 hydras in the room East of Marine Start (where the power node is) and there were another 5 or 6 hydras in the hive West of Marine Start and a few more scattered around the map and there was absolutely no lag.
I can't say the same for turrets. On the same server (in another game) when the marine commander dropped a bunch of turrets it started to lag pretty bad. Dunno if it was related to the turrets or not but it definitely seemed like it as the more he dropped the worse the lag got.
<!--quoteo(post=1815277:date=Dec 12 2010, 08:45 AM:name=Warmonger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Warmonger @ Dec 12 2010, 08:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many hydras were there? I imagine the number of hydra's needed to lag a server is much higher than in previous builds. I played a game last night on ns_rockdown where the gorge dropped around 20 hydras in the room East of Marine Start (where the power node is) and there were another 5 or 6 hydras in the hive West of Marine Start and a few more scattered around the map and there was absolutely no lag.
I can't say the same for turrets. On the same server (in another game) when the marine commander dropped a bunch of turrets it started to lag pretty bad. Dunno if it was related to the turrets or not but it definitely seemed like it as the more he dropped the worse the lag got.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was lagging and stuttering without hydras. The stuttering is the new thing. Sometimes an alien would jump out and the screen would freeze for 3 seconds. Didn't notice hydras having such a strong affect on lag like they did before. We had like 10 hydras and it didn't break or become 100% unplayable.
Came off a server with < 100ms ping on the scoreboard but 328 ms on net_stats and 5 - 7 ticks on the server rate.
I dropped my graphics all the way down to see if that would effect the hitbox issue I was complainign about but the performance was much worse that usual ( same set of server , the Armory ones ).
I experienced the black screen bug again , and in the console I noted it was spamming errors about the scoreboard and a lua script and I tried to print screen cap it but got a black screen of nothingness in my capture. After the black screen stutter the game seemed to get a bit better but the audio was messed but, every audio played twice. A number of the armories wouldnt work either.
All in all my experience after dropping the graphics down was still laggy , still couldnt hit nowt and just ugly as sin.
There was a fair number of Sentry Guns around the place and it was the tram map so that is contributing to the bad experience.
I have faith in you UWE and eagerly await future patches.
( PS can we get the NS2 that NS2HD uses and plays on ? I can only wish to have half the game he gets to play )
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
NS2HD is playing on the same version we are and sometimes he is playing on the "next release". Btw, ns2_tram is buggy and unstable as hell. a lot of people currently have issues with black screens and none working armories near the tram model in the map
I still see many bugs that according to devs are fixed, the double sound when firing , fades skating, alien stuck when respawn, footsteps sound when walking over certain surfaces (ladders), lag, etc.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Easy fix to that spawning bug of eggs... Have the mapper add a certain amount of fixed spawns... It will still be quite random if there are enough and the randomness it has now with in wall eggs will be completely eliminated...
Looking great, but as of this build I've been getting a crash after about 10 - 20 min of gameplay. GS report here: <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/crash_after_awhile_of_play_attach_point_errors" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...ch_point_errors</a>
big steps with this patcha again, very nice, I'm noticing now mroe and more, that the big changes I want to see are gameplay related,(balance, mute feature) and not perforamance problems, this is great work!
159 feels good.. had a game last night where I was popping off skulks + lerks on the run with the pistol, finally felt like the lag had died down enough to notice hit reg is working nicely! Couple of textures were going weird (one in the middle floor of the RR on tram), and after about 90m the game crashed out on me..
Also, had my first pure NS moment - I thought I'd tell it to you in a little story;
Dave the marine stared intently into the dark recesses of the hallway. Not moments ago, a spine-chilling chuckle had seeped out, seemingly from everywhere, into his ears. Dave was a veteran, but he was becoming unsettled. Why would an alien lifeform chuckle? What did that mean about its sense of humour? Why couldn't he have a flamethrower, at least, instead of just an infinite flashlight and his trusty rifle? The section of corridor ahead of him dog-legged to the left and back to the right again, like the architect had been obsessed with the shape of the letter s. Dave thought about thinking about this for a second, but quickly decided his current circumstances deserved more attention. Creeping forward slowly and silently, like a large, two-legged panther without teeth, he noticed the roof of the corridor rose sharply at the intersection ahead, ending some twenty feet above him in an oversized and slightly creepy ventilation fan. The fan was seeped in darkness, and all around it were nooks and crannies where an enemy could hide. Dave, in a sudden flash of bravery/stupidity, ran forwards with his flashlight on, aiming straight upwards at his would be attacker.. He looked wildly around the nooks and crannies, but to no avail. With the sudden clarity of those who are about to die, he realised he had been outwitted. Before he could even turn to face his attacker, it silently smashed into the side of his face, moving him a foot or so away, and making him compulsively pull the trigger and ###### his pants. As Dave looked around wildly for the attacking skulk, he realised that it was in fact a friendly MAC that had just shoved him, and he now had to go to the toilet and clean up. As for the sneaky skulk who had been chuckling? Who knows, those ######s sure do have sick senses humour..
actually almost did poo myself and had a great time when this happened :D
<!--quoteo(post=1815696:date=Dec 14 2010, 01:38 AM:name=Jonwah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jonwah @ Dec 14 2010, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Before he could even turn to face his attacker, it silently smashed into the side of his face, moving him a foot or so away, and making him compulsively pull the trigger and ###### his pants. As Dave looked around wildly for the attacking skulk, he realised that it was in fact a friendly MAC that had just shoved him, [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Höhöhö.....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Very solid 30 minute match, great fun and it could have gone either way. Definitely a significant improvement in FPS (even on my low end pc, 2.8ghz dual AMD, 4850HD, 2gb ram).
Looking forward to a flamethrower nerf, if i dont get flamed for half a second and then slowly burn to death....its just spray to death while totally blind. Still having great games anyway but thats about the only thing that frustrates me still.
Keep up the good work and great to see that the progress tracker is being updated regularly.
Edit.. Contrary to Kouji_San's comment, i still am spawning in the wall as an egg.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815770:date=Dec 14 2010, 02:57 AM:name=Slickk-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slickk- @ Dec 14 2010, 02:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit.. Contrary to Kouji_San's comment, i still am spawning in the wall as an egg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My bad. I did post something about this a few posts up and saw it on the progress page. However it is currently on the 160 progress page
As an alien, if you try to evolve on a wire platform (the kind which are often suspended from roofs) the egg will appear and then fall through the wire to the ground. I tried to go up to the area in the roof at the West hive/cc room in rockdown, clicked evolve to gorge, and promptly fell through the material and landed on the ground where marines could easily see the egg.
Another evolving bug?
Up in that same roof area you can evolve into a lerk or fade, but you cant evolve into a gorge in the middle part of the roof area because the game says there isn't enough room. So do eggs actually take up different amounts of space depending on the alien you're becoming?
3rd egg problem:
99% of the time you cannot tell how long its going to take to complete the evolution to another lifeform. Only once when I evolved to fade did the health bar accurately fill up in time with the evolution process.
Comments
Early aggressive strategies are more powerful the younger a RTS game is. It's easier to just all-in kamikaze attack than figuring out how to stop that all-in attack. And once a certain all-in attack is figured out over a week to a month, three more flavors of all-in attacks have already appeared to take its place. This is <i>especially</i> true in NS, where each team starts with the maximum number of soldiers and don't have to build up soldier numbers during the first five minutes before attacking.
You've done the right thing complaining so developers can see testers' opinions. But don't blame the other testers. They're encouraged to experiment with abusive strategies so any imbalances can be patched before release. It's kind of like tough love. You don't really like it when it happens to you, but making people aware of the problems will make the game better for release.
Unknown Worlds Entertainment is going to get a closer "official" playtesting team, so any the community says is broken can be tested very quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Starting the marines with a few sentries covering the base and the aliens with a couple of whips to keep axers off the hive would be nice though, there's no real reason why games should end in a rush, it isn't fun, you should always be able to get the game started at least. It would also force some more inventive approaches to attacking, assuming there are at least two routes out of spawn, it would make it harder to pin people in if the spawn was a no-go until you tech up a little bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1815154:date=Dec 11 2010, 09:34 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 11 2010, 09:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rofl, are you serious? Ahahahaha<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps i wasn't clear enough;) what i meant is only to nerf the flamer temporary so it doesn't kill the game until the alien counters to the flamerthrowers are in e.g Onos or a "less flame damage"upgrade in on of the new chambers. because its really no fun if you can't survive even if you manage to escape as a skulk because the DoT is killing you a few secs later.
<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Here's a shoutout to out guys! UWE you guys rule! With each and every step it is getting closer to a game. Kuddos, job well done!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Have a cold one guys: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer</a>
k it is still rockdown, but with 6vs6 it is indeed VERY playable. Mah skulk powers amaze even me, Fade is still weird as hell to use though >_>
[edit]
yeh, i'm just exited to finally being able to Skulk and harras marines again without fps or lag issues. It's been a long time, since I've played NS1 (where it did work :P)
Nerfing something temporarily like this only hurts balance later on in the game.
How many hydras were there? I imagine the number of hydra's needed to lag a server is much higher than in previous builds. I played a game last night on ns_rockdown where the gorge dropped around 20 hydras in the room East of Marine Start (where the power node is) and there were another 5 or 6 hydras in the hive West of Marine Start and a few more scattered around the map and there was absolutely no lag.
I can't say the same for turrets. On the same server (in another game) when the marine commander dropped a bunch of turrets it started to lag pretty bad. Dunno if it was related to the turrets or not but it definitely seemed like it as the more he dropped the worse the lag got.
I can't say the same for turrets. On the same server (in another game) when the marine commander dropped a bunch of turrets it started to lag pretty bad. Dunno if it was related to the turrets or not but it definitely seemed like it as the more he dropped the worse the lag got.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was lagging and stuttering without hydras. The stuttering is the new thing. Sometimes an alien would jump out and the screen would freeze for 3 seconds. Didn't notice hydras having such a strong affect on lag like they did before. We had like 10 hydras and it didn't break or become 100% unplayable.
Came off a server with < 100ms ping on the scoreboard but 328 ms on net_stats and 5 - 7 ticks on the server rate.
I dropped my graphics all the way down to see if that would effect the hitbox issue I was complainign about but the performance was much worse that usual ( same set of server , the Armory ones ).
I experienced the black screen bug again , and in the console I noted it was spamming errors about the scoreboard and a lua script and I tried to print screen cap it but got a black screen of nothingness in my capture.
After the black screen stutter the game seemed to get a bit better but the audio was messed but, every audio played twice.
A number of the armories wouldnt work either.
All in all my experience after dropping the graphics down was still laggy , still couldnt hit nowt and just ugly as sin.
There was a fair number of Sentry Guns around the place and it was the tram map so that is contributing to the bad experience.
I have faith in you UWE and eagerly await future patches.
( PS can we get the NS2 that NS2HD uses and plays on ? I can only wish to have half the game he gets to play )
<ul><li>progress is being made on many fronts</li><li>my investor confidence is rising</li></ul>
Solid Network improvements.
(still some problems on certain servers)
All in all, great patch!
GS report here: <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/crash_after_awhile_of_play_attach_point_errors" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...ch_point_errors</a>
Also, had my first pure NS moment - I thought I'd tell it to you in a little story;
Dave the marine stared intently into the dark recesses of the hallway. Not moments ago, a spine-chilling chuckle had seeped out, seemingly from everywhere, into his ears. Dave was a veteran, but he was becoming unsettled. Why would an alien lifeform chuckle? What did that mean about its sense of humour? Why couldn't he have a flamethrower, at least, instead of just an infinite flashlight and his trusty rifle? The section of corridor ahead of him dog-legged to the left and back to the right again, like the architect had been obsessed with the shape of the letter s. Dave thought about thinking about this for a second, but quickly decided his current circumstances deserved more attention. Creeping forward slowly and silently, like a large, two-legged panther without teeth, he noticed the roof of the corridor rose sharply at the intersection ahead, ending some twenty feet above him in an oversized and slightly creepy ventilation fan. The fan was seeped in darkness, and all around it were nooks and crannies where an enemy could hide. Dave, in a sudden flash of bravery/stupidity, ran forwards with his flashlight on, aiming straight upwards at his would be attacker.. He looked wildly around the nooks and crannies, but to no avail. With the sudden clarity of those who are about to die, he realised he had been outwitted. Before he could even turn to face his attacker, it silently smashed into the side of his face, moving him a foot or so away, and making him compulsively pull the trigger and ###### his pants. As Dave looked around wildly for the attacking skulk, he realised that it was in fact a friendly MAC that had just shoved him, and he now had to go to the toilet and clean up. As for the sneaky skulk who had been chuckling? Who knows, those ######s sure do have sick senses humour..
actually almost did poo myself and had a great time when this happened :D
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->Höhöhö.....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Thats German for dark manly laughter ;-)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have mappers place egg spawns<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yay, no longer getting stuck in walls!
Even if it does give that nostalgia feeling of NS 1.x and the awesomeness that was "/stuck"
I'm hoping for a new release of SparkE as well with build160, please Max! :D
Very solid 30 minute match, great fun and it could have gone either way.
Definitely a significant improvement in FPS (even on my low end pc, 2.8ghz dual AMD, 4850HD, 2gb ram).
Looking forward to a flamethrower nerf, if i dont get flamed for half a second and then slowly burn to death....its just spray to death while totally blind.
Still having great games anyway but thats about the only thing that frustrates me still.
Keep up the good work and great to see that the progress tracker is being updated regularly.
Edit.. Contrary to Kouji_San's comment, i still am spawning in the wall as an egg.
My bad. I did post something about this a few posts up and saw it on the progress page. However it is currently on the 160 progress page
I'll edit mah post, to stop the confusion
Kill the fire on-screen effect from flame thrower
Release patch
Everyone's happy :)
As an alien, if you try to evolve on a wire platform (the kind which are often suspended from roofs) the egg will appear and then fall through the wire to the ground. I tried to go up to the area in the roof at the West hive/cc room in rockdown, clicked evolve to gorge, and promptly fell through the material and landed on the ground where marines could easily see the egg.
Another evolving bug?
Up in that same roof area you can evolve into a lerk or fade, but you cant evolve into a gorge in the middle part of the roof area because the game says there isn't enough room. So do eggs actually take up different amounts of space depending on the alien you're becoming?
3rd egg problem:
99% of the time you cannot tell how long its going to take to complete the evolution to another lifeform. Only once when I evolved to fade did the health bar accurately fill up in time with the evolution process.