<!--quoteo(post=1814827:date=Dec 10 2010, 01:03 PM:name=pallie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pallie @ Dec 10 2010, 01:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->40 man raids were awesome<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do miss the "epicness" of 40 man raids. I do not miss spending my nights waiting outside the instance as a sub, or waiting inside the instance because 2 people went afk or disconnected -_-
very well said. The last MMO I played that really has that open world feeling without a "need" for guild cliquiness was Vanguard. I am tempted to go back to it sometimes. The class mechanics and exploration were really neat in that game. The bugs weren't.
<!--quoteo(post=1814826:date=Dec 10 2010, 05:54 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shockwave @ Dec 10 2010, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know lolfighter, I'm not so bothered? This expansion is all about new characters anyway, so if we could compile a list of UWE OT folk, and see where the majority were, I'd have no problem playing there. I know there's a few on <b>EU Outland</b> as Alliance, but I've no idea where everyone else is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe as a level playing field decide on a random/new/low server for everyone? I normally play horde so the new alliance quest line would interest me.
Edit: If it's something we're all pretty almost comitted to I've sat myself in #nswow, as I know how fickle the conversation of WoW in #ns gets spat on.
<!--quoteo(post=1814798:date=Dec 10 2010, 05:39 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Dec 10 2010, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814798"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do think it should still be perfectly viable to play WoW without a guild. Yeah, a PUG is not going to get as far as fast as a good guild in raids, but PuGs still regularly cleared the hardest instance in WotLK regularly. Maybe not on heroic mode, but they still saw all the content. So they got the benefits of raiding without the responsibility of having to log in on designated guild raid nights. I don't know why it's such a crazy concept that guilds progress faster than PuGs. Let's say guilds didn't exist. Who would progress faster - a group of friends who always play together and rely on each other and know each other's play style, or a group of completely random people who may or may not know what they're doing and where the worst thing that can happen if they screw up is they get kicked out of the group?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So if the rewards of playing with a group of "friends" is intrinsic, why widen the gap by rewarding only those?
Anyway, you guys are welcome to come play on Bronze Dragonflight, alliance side. If a fair number shows up I'ma get the expansion and roll a new character, how's that for a deal?
You're not too far wrong though it's not much to do with me being a product of earlier MMOs, my worldview was set long before I even stepped into my first :3
Part of my issue with guilds, outside that which you've noted, is identity. I like having one that I made myself and don't like diluting it with something like a guild. The idea of joining a guild means putting their name under mine and that bothers me. I've had a good few guilds who wanted me in the past because the simple act of having solid association with me would bump up their recruitment numbers significantly :/
I help a lot of people out in the starter zones (a kind of hobby of mine) so I get fairly well known and liked and I get irritated at people cashing in on that, purposefully or not... I hate being a trophy :p
As for WoW... I promise nothing!!! XD ...but I'll probably need to check it out at some point just to keep up on the MMO scene :/
By the way, here are two things that piss me off, and I don't quite know why: 1) People asking me "can I add you to my friends list?" when they don't require my permission in the first place. I can't stop you, so why the ###### do you ask? Out of consideration? If you're a jackass I'm going to put you in ignore whether I'm on your friends list or not. If you want to add me, just ###### add me. 2) People telling me "I've added you to my friends list." Again, why the ###### do I need to know that? Good for you, you figured out how to right-click my name! Hoo-######-ray. Piss off.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815187:date=Dec 11 2010, 10:04 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Dec 11 2010, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, here are two things that piss me off, and I don't quite know why: 1) People asking me "can I add you to my friends list?" when they don't require my permission in the first place. I can't stop you, so why the ###### do you ask? Out of consideration? If you're a jackass I'm going to put you in ignore whether I'm on your friends list or not. If you want to add me, just ###### add me. 2) People telling me "I've added you to my friends list." Again, why the ###### do I need to know that? Good for you, you figured out how to right-click my name! Hoo-######-ray. Piss off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You ok? You know just asking, cause... Oh fudge, I have probably just left you alone...
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
The best thing about Cataclysm is that the 5 man normals are the lich king heroics. Cata heroics are ###### <b>heroic</b> now and actually require you not to be a flailing spastic retard like 99% of all players.
<!--quoteo(post=1815249:date=Dec 12 2010, 02:33 AM:name=Monkfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkfish @ Dec 12 2010, 02:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and actually require you not to be a flailing spastic retard like 99% of all players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1815249:date=Dec 12 2010, 04:33 AM:name=Monkfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkfish @ Dec 12 2010, 04:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The best thing about Cataclysm is that the 5 man normals are the lich king heroics. Cata heroics are ###### <b>heroic</b> now and actually require you not to be a flailing spastic retard like 99% of all players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So now finding a dungeon group capable of finishing a dungeon will be impossible because the pool of available candidates just shrunk by a factor of 100?
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
Normals you could do fine. It's just going to take quite a while for a lot of people to understand what the heck to do (or when blizz nerfs everything into the ground)
some heroics do seem to be crazy hard. Even when everyone seems to be doing everything right... my random group tonight couldn't clear heroic grim batol... even though we didn't stand in the fire, didn't break cc, etc. on the third boss, unavoidable random incoming damage hurt more than our healer could possibly heal through. maybe the group just wasn't as good as I though.
One thing I like, is that I can finally get away with speccing my warlock into affliction. Still does a bit less dps than destro, but so much more mana and health efficient. Don't have to tax the healer nearly as much, and the healer's mana is the most precious commodity in the group now.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2010
I'm sorry, but the heroics ARE too hard. Not ridiculously so, but there are too many cases of bad design here, where 1 mistake = instagib. That's lazy design that we phased out in the early 90s.
Style more fights like Yogg-Saron please: Progressive losses, where if you fail too much it's all over, not like LK where a single half-second mistake ends everything.
Edit: This isn't to say it's too hard by far; Just, if it was better designed, it'd be more fun.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Sorry, I'm with Sonic here. The Heroics being hard is excellent news. They're too hard? Do normals until people get their reaction times right. The one thing that made me quit LK very, very quickly was watching every run be 'gather it all up, aoe', and I'm delighted to see the return of required crowd control. It's not like there's nothing provided for players who can't / won't get better, so why not have some genuinely difficult content?
Sonic: Are you in the SA Guild on Defias Brotherhood, or somewhere else?
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
Yeah I'm in there. It's also amazing how many people are doing heroics without ever having actually done the normal version. The game should force you to do it so you're not asking for tactics then wiping on the first back because you didn't CC >:I
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1815504:date=Dec 13 2010, 04:14 AM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shockwave @ Dec 13 2010, 04:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, I'm with Sonic here. The Heroics being hard is excellent news. They're too hard? Do normals until people get their reaction times right. The one thing that made me quit LK very, very quickly was watching every run be 'gather it all up, aoe', and I'm delighted to see the return of required crowd control. It's not like there's nothing provided for players who can't / won't get better, so why not have some genuinely difficult content?
Sonic: Are you in the SA Guild on Defias Brotherhood, or somewhere else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been here since vanilla, I'm fine with getting some difficulty.
But having people in full normal gear and some crafted heroic-ilevel gear with near-perfect reaction times wiping to the 3rd boss of SFK because his core mechanic is being a ######? Less fun. (Edit: Actual mechanic, cone fire effect that takes 80%+ health off of everyone in your group, is done roughly every 20 seconds, along with others in the group. The cone cannot be controlled, and has a 150-degree arc, and it can and will be turned, doing 30k damage per second, in a room that is roughly 10-by-20 feet in size, with many items to get stuck on in the way.)
Raids are exactly where you put your stupidly-difficult content, especially with heroic mode raids here. 5-mans, I'm less inclined. Sure, if you want to have something above heroic mode 5s, where it requires utter perfection, have at it. But people who were clearing LK hardmode shouldn't be unable to get past a heroic. It wasn't this hard ever in the history of the game, not even the original Heroic Shadow Labs.
People will gear up a bit and then everything will be trivial again. The only heroic I remember actually being difficult was arcatraz from burning crusade. Man that was difficult.
Also that 5-man on the belf island up north. The phoenix was murderlating.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1815541:date=Dec 13 2010, 08:30 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Dec 13 2010, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People will gear up a bit and then everything will be trivial again. The only heroic I remember actually being difficult was arcatraz from burning crusade. Man that was difficult.
Also that 5-man on the belf island up north. The phoenix was murderlating.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except people are geared up. Gear isn't the problem, overtuned ######-you difficulty is.
I really hate complaining about difficulty because I *like* stupidly punishing hard encounters, but I think they have their place in heroic-mode raids. 5-mans just seems rather stupid in comparison.
Yeah, it's kind of true. I can't tell if it's too early to complain yet, because so far I've only done 2 heroics so far. The first one was Grim Batol. killed the first boss on the second try, was happy, thought we were gonna breeze through. Second boss took about 10 wipes before we got it -_- third boss, we gave up after about 7 wipes when it looked like there was no possible way the healer's mana was going to be able to keep up. But then we did heroic vortex pinnacle (is that what it's called?) and had no more than one wipe on each boss... and this was with a tank that started playing in WotLK and knows virtually nothing about cc. Luckily he is incapable of breaking banish. (the worst part is, this tank is my guild leader -_- I wish I could go find a better guild but we're good friends with the leadership, they're just not amazing players by any stretch)
I *want* to say they're too hard. Some definitely are. But it's possible people are just still learning to play their classes, as well as still gearing up. Today I plan on trying to replace my last few remaining greens with dungeon 333 blues before continuing heroics.
<!--quoteo(post=1815567:date=Dec 13 2010, 07:13 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Dec 13 2010, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]and this was with a tank that started playing in WotLK and knows virtually nothing about cc. Luckily he is incapable of breaking banish. (the worst part is, this tank is my guild leader -_- I wish I could go find a better guild but we're good friends with the leadership, they're just not amazing players by any stretch)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quitcher whinin' boy and get to teachin'. You're good friends with the leadership, that sounds like you can talk to them without being told "stfu noob I know what I'm doing." So start showin 'em the ropes. As a veteran, it's your duty to teach the new generations.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
Ok, I lie.
I finally found a DPS race fight. And that's the last boss for Throne of Tides on heroic. It's 100% a DPS race as it's all killing adds. There is a bit of mechanics to worry about, but not much.
<!--quoteo(post=1815540:date=Dec 13 2010, 04:29 PM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quaunaut @ Dec 13 2010, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been here since vanilla, I'm fine with getting some difficulty.
But having people in full normal gear and some crafted heroic-ilevel gear with near-perfect reaction times wiping to the 3rd boss of SFK because his core mechanic is being a ######? Less fun. (Edit: Actual mechanic, cone fire effect that takes 80%+ health off of everyone in your group, is done roughly every 20 seconds, along with others in the group. The cone cannot be controlled, and has a 150-degree arc, and it can and will be turned, doing 30k damage per second, in a room that is roughly 10-by-20 feet in size, with many items to get stuck on in the way.)
Raids are exactly where you put your stupidly-difficult content, especially with heroic mode raids here. 5-mans, I'm less inclined. Sure, if you want to have something above heroic mode 5s, where it requires utter perfection, have at it. But people who were clearing LK hardmode shouldn't be unable to get past a heroic. It wasn't this hard ever in the history of the game, not even the original Heroic Shadow Labs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't true though. In the past there have been many fights which were insanely hard and only beaten by 1-2 guilds in the worlds untill blizzard nerfed them and suddenly a lot of raid guilds were able to kill them.
<!--quoteo(post=1815575:date=Dec 13 2010, 12:45 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Dec 13 2010, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quitcher whinin' boy and get to teachin'. You're good friends with the leadership, that sounds like you can talk to them without being told "stfu noob I know what I'm doing." So start showin 'em the ropes. As a veteran, it's your duty to teach the new generations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> While I am good friends with them, they're sort of on a power trip and I feel like they don't like listening to other people. I'll have to figure out a way to drop hints about proper cc in such a way that he thinks it was his idea...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1815631:date=Dec 13 2010, 08:02 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Dec 13 2010, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I am good friends with them, they're sort of on a power trip and I feel like they don't like listening to other people. I'll have to figure out a way to drop hints about proper cc in such a way that he thinks it was his idea...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Use reverse psychology :P
Comments
I do miss the "epicness" of 40 man raids. I do not miss spending my nights waiting outside the instance as a sub, or waiting inside the instance because 2 people went afk or disconnected -_-
very well said. The last MMO I played that really has that open world feeling without a "need" for guild cliquiness was Vanguard. I am tempted to go back to it sometimes. The class mechanics and exploration were really neat in that game. The bugs weren't.
Maybe as a level playing field decide on a random/new/low server for everyone? I normally play horde so the new alliance quest line would interest me.
Edit: If it's something we're all pretty almost comitted to I've sat myself in #nswow, as I know how fickle the conversation of WoW in #ns gets spat on.
So if the rewards of playing with a group of "friends" is intrinsic, why widen the gap by rewarding only those?
Anyway, you guys are welcome to come play on Bronze Dragonflight, alliance side. If a fair number shows up I'ma get the expansion and roll a new character, how's that for a deal?
Part of my issue with guilds, outside that which you've noted, is identity. I like having one that I made myself and don't like diluting it with something like a guild. The idea of joining a guild means putting their name under mine and that bothers me. I've had a good few guilds who wanted me in the past because the simple act of having solid association with me would bump up their recruitment numbers significantly :/
I help a lot of people out in the starter zones (a kind of hobby of mine) so I get fairly well known and liked and I get irritated at people cashing in on that, purposefully or not... I hate being a trophy :p
As for WoW... I promise nothing!!! XD
...but I'll probably need to check it out at some point just to keep up on the MMO scene :/
1) People asking me "can I add you to my friends list?" when they don't require my permission in the first place. I can't stop you, so why the ###### do you ask? Out of consideration? If you're a jackass I'm going to put you in ignore whether I'm on your friends list or not. If you want to add me, just ###### add me.
2) People telling me "I've added you to my friends list." Again, why the ###### do I need to know that? Good for you, you figured out how to right-click my name! Hoo-######-ray. Piss off.
1) People asking me "can I add you to my friends list?" when they don't require my permission in the first place. I can't stop you, so why the ###### do you ask? Out of consideration? If you're a jackass I'm going to put you in ignore whether I'm on your friends list or not. If you want to add me, just ###### add me.
2) People telling me "I've added you to my friends list." Again, why the ###### do I need to know that? Good for you, you figured out how to right-click my name! Hoo-######-ray. Piss off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You ok? You know just asking, cause... Oh fudge, I have probably just left you alone...
/hides
Sorry a what? I didn't quite get that.
Gottah love the double negative <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So now finding a dungeon group capable of finishing a dungeon will be impossible because the pool of available candidates just shrunk by a factor of 100?
Sounds about right.
even the devs think people should l2p. This makes me happy.
One thing I like, is that I can finally get away with speccing my warlock into affliction. Still does a bit less dps than destro, but so much more mana and health efficient. Don't have to tax the healer nearly as much, and the healer's mana is the most precious commodity in the group now.
Style more fights like Yogg-Saron please: Progressive losses, where if you fail too much it's all over, not like LK where a single half-second mistake ends everything.
Edit: This isn't to say it's too hard by far; Just, if it was better designed, it'd be more fun.
Sonic: Are you in the SA Guild on Defias Brotherhood, or somewhere else?
Sonic: Are you in the SA Guild on Defias Brotherhood, or somewhere else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been here since vanilla, I'm fine with getting some difficulty.
But having people in full normal gear and some crafted heroic-ilevel gear with near-perfect reaction times wiping to the 3rd boss of SFK because his core mechanic is being a ######? Less fun. (Edit: Actual mechanic, cone fire effect that takes 80%+ health off of everyone in your group, is done roughly every 20 seconds, along with others in the group. The cone cannot be controlled, and has a 150-degree arc, and it can and will be turned, doing 30k damage per second, in a room that is roughly 10-by-20 feet in size, with many items to get stuck on in the way.)
Raids are exactly where you put your stupidly-difficult content, especially with heroic mode raids here. 5-mans, I'm less inclined. Sure, if you want to have something above heroic mode 5s, where it requires utter perfection, have at it. But people who were clearing LK hardmode shouldn't be unable to get past a heroic. It wasn't this hard ever in the history of the game, not even the original Heroic Shadow Labs.
Also that 5-man on the belf island up north. The phoenix was murderlating.
--Scythe--
Also that 5-man on the belf island up north. The phoenix was murderlating.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except people are geared up. Gear isn't the problem, overtuned ######-you difficulty is.
I really hate complaining about difficulty because I *like* stupidly punishing hard encounters, but I think they have their place in heroic-mode raids. 5-mans just seems rather stupid in comparison.
I *want* to say they're too hard. Some definitely are. But it's possible people are just still learning to play their classes, as well as still gearing up. Today I plan on trying to replace my last few remaining greens with dungeon 333 blues before continuing heroics.
Quitcher whinin' boy and get to teachin'. You're good friends with the leadership, that sounds like you can talk to them without being told "stfu noob I know what I'm doing." So start showin 'em the ropes. As a veteran, it's your duty to teach the new generations.
I finally found a DPS race fight. And that's the last boss for Throne of Tides on heroic. It's 100% a DPS race as it's all killing adds. There is a bit of mechanics to worry about, but not much.
But having people in full normal gear and some crafted heroic-ilevel gear with near-perfect reaction times wiping to the 3rd boss of SFK because his core mechanic is being a ######? Less fun. (Edit: Actual mechanic, cone fire effect that takes 80%+ health off of everyone in your group, is done roughly every 20 seconds, along with others in the group. The cone cannot be controlled, and has a 150-degree arc, and it can and will be turned, doing 30k damage per second, in a room that is roughly 10-by-20 feet in size, with many items to get stuck on in the way.)
Raids are exactly where you put your stupidly-difficult content, especially with heroic mode raids here. 5-mans, I'm less inclined. Sure, if you want to have something above heroic mode 5s, where it requires utter perfection, have at it. But people who were clearing LK hardmode shouldn't be unable to get past a heroic. It wasn't this hard ever in the history of the game, not even the original Heroic Shadow Labs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't true though. In the past there have been many fights which were insanely hard and only beaten by 1-2 guilds in the worlds untill blizzard nerfed them and suddenly a lot of raid guilds were able to kill them.
While I am good friends with them, they're sort of on a power trip and I feel like they don't like listening to other people. I'll have to figure out a way to drop hints about proper cc in such a way that he thinks it was his idea...
Use reverse psychology :P