If everything alien side was boosted to 120% on DI I think I would be happy. So, aliens move faster, structures build quicker, and those that can uproot and find a new home will have an easier time. Marines should definitely not be able to build on DI, or move their ARCs across it.
That seems a bit much. Keep in mind the only way of removing it we have is the flamethrower, which is high-tech and not the best choice for every situation...
<!--quoteo(post=1813919:date=Dec 6 2010, 03:37 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Dec 6 2010, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813919"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That seems a bit much. Keep in mind the only way of removing it we have is the flamethrower, which is high-tech and not the best choice for every situation...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's true currently. Unless they make it so that Power nodes/light take precedence over DI meaning that repairing a power node in a room will cause the DI to retreat back towards the hive.
From the first official mention of the power grid, I've had one design in mind for the DI system: The marine equivalent of a power node. I've always pictured Marines having "powered" rooms and aliens having "infected" rooms, with untouched/uncontrolled territory simply being unpowered and uninfected. How cool would it be to be on the Marine team pushing into an unpowered space station, turning on the lights room by room, until you hit one filled with DI and chambers? Or how about being an Alien, spreading the infestation and watching it creep over top of the human tech inside the station as you gain the ability to evolve into more powerful lifeforms?
And if you're not one for immersion or atmosphere, lets drag some of the turret/hydra discussion here. What if alien structures only 'matured' on DI, leaving independent structures weaker? You'd be adding to the asymmetry and another layer for strategy. Or how about DI attacking a powered room directly through only Commander interaction? Or vice versa? There are literately hundreds of directions the game design behind Dynamic Infestation can take NS2, this is just how I've been picturing it.
The power grid gameplay will probably be what makes or breaks NS2. Basically, it will control all the atmosphere and strategy NS2 has to offer. It is also a very intuitive gameplay mechanic that would make a very strong selling point to potential buyers, both scifi fans and competitive players. (Hell, the DI video from years ago made me excited for NS2 in the first place!) I honestly can't think of a feature more critical to NS2 than the power grid system, and it cannot function properly without the Dynamic Infestation half.
With that in mind, we've seen very little of it in the Beta, which just blows me away. It's something I would have expected the Alpha to prioritize, yet we didn't even see it in the Alpha. I'm sure DI is an extremely complicated feature to program, and I'm sure it will break the Beta terribly, but the power grid system is not complete without it. For the love of all that is holy, just throw in a terribly cheap place holder so we can start doing REAL tests of the REAL NS2.
If I seem frustrated, yes, I am very frustrated. The incredible NS2 I have imagined over the years is heading in a very underwhelming direction, and that terrifies me. Normally I'd just shut my trap and watch, but I loved NS1 too much to let that happen without putting up a fight. And it seems I am not alone, either.
^ Agreee with you. Dynamic Infestation as it was shown in the video (that was source engine right?) is what really got my attention and got me excited for NS2. If it turns out to be an absolute server killer I will KILL MYSELF !!!!!!!!
Hypothetically......if they run outta cash I would pay more money if that would guarantee a non-laggy NS2 with Dynamic Infestation. I wish they would update us on it, even if to say they stopped working on it and will start again when everything else is working,.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1813926:date=Dec 6 2010, 07:57 PM:name=Cerebral)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cerebral @ Dec 6 2010, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's true currently. Unless they make it so that Power nodes/light take precedence over DI meaning that repairing a power node in a room will cause the DI to retreat back towards the hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which would seem logical as the Nanite gridlock would be active again to reclaim and protect that sector from the Growth...
<!--quoteo(post=1813943:date=Dec 6 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 6 2010, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which would seem logical as the Nanite gridlock would be active again to reclaim and protect that sector from the Growth...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
looked like a great tool in sc2 pro matches, I can see it forcing com/alien cooperation as well, which is sort of lacking at the moment
edit: would be great with onus, since smaller tunnels would offer an 'escape' for rines. A com could just seal up the smaller tunnel and let the onus play
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Would also be a counter to Doors, which can be locked/welded by the Commander. Give the Hive Mind something to do as well other then just pooping out DI, or is that the Gorge's job...
<!--quoteo(post=1813977:date=Dec 7 2010, 12:00 AM:name=senor_hybrido)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (senor_hybrido @ Dec 7 2010, 12:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI should make aliens invisible from motion tracking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like this a lot and i agree. in the hive room where DI active strongly in here, aliens eggs should be buried within the infestattion or the eggs themselves have much stronger shell.
Someone mentioned devour as an ability for DI: I like this. Rather than have it be triggered by Gorges though, having devour be triggered by the commander would be an awesome (and, for the Marines, downright horrifying) ability. No way for the Marines to see it coming, and they'd be forced to keep their distance or risk being consumed.
<!--quoteo(post=1813832:date=Dec 6 2010, 07:37 AM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Dec 6 2010, 07:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but what will destroy the other? will a powernode stop the spread of DI or will DI damage a powernode? Also Wasnt there a mention of the flamethrower destroying DI? will that be the main purpose of the flamer?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DI depowers Marine rooms, and the primary function of the flamethrower is the removal of DI.
I don't think the Alien commander(s) should possess an ability of that magnitude, as fitting as it seems...
I hope DI doesn't damage Power Nodes, rather prevent portable power nodes from being constructed. Both would be overkill, depending on how DI spreads (in powered or unpowered rooms only, or both).
A "DI Surge" type com ability would be interesting. If it builds up enough outside a room, com could trigger it and it sort of rushes in over 30 seconds. Would almost be the lien version of a seige.
Would force marines to keep pushing there noses out beyond lines of defense to keep the di down also
<!--quoteo(post=1814003:date=Dec 6 2010, 08:55 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Dec 6 2010, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think the Alien commander(s) should possess an ability of that magnitude, as fitting as it seems...
I hope DI doesn't damage Power Nodes, rather prevent portable power nodes from being constructed. Both would be overkill, depending on how DI spreads (in powered or unpowered rooms only, or both).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I think that the power nodes should repulse DI, putting the emphasis on aliens to kill power nodes and marines to keep them repaired.
I also like the aforementioned idea of rooms being neutral at the start and then there being an obvious control shift in which team "owns" the room. (with associated benefits for that team) It promotes small objective based strategies where the balance of power can be shifted back and forth many times over the course of the game. This essentially becomes an extension of what it meant to have control of an RT in a room in NS1 but with much better payoffs and cooler gameplay possibilities.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited December 2010
I don't know about all these Alien buffs for DI. If DI bonuses compounded with Research upgrades, the Aliens would be unstoppable. DI bonuses (aside from health regen) seem like a massive advantage.
I do however really want to see one thing with DI and the Nano-grid. There should be some kind of FX or "line" denoting where the bacteria and the Nano-grid are canceling each other out. Like very subtle fire embers, or firefly effect to show where the two forces are annihilating each other. This would be a great way for both the Aliens and the Marines to know "Ok, we're not in friendly territory anymore. Stay frosty." I would assume the Nano-grid and bacteria would be "fighting" each other in between areas that are infested with DI and ones that are powered up. Thoughts?
<!--quoteo(post=1814030:date=Dec 6 2010, 08:25 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Dec 6 2010, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know about all these Alien buffs for DI. If DI bonuses compounded with Research upgrades, the Aliens would be unstoppable. DI bonuses (aside from health regen) seem like a massive advantage.
I do however really want to see one thing with DI and the Nano-grid. There should be some kind of FX or "line" denoting where the bacteria and the Nano-grid are canceling each other out. Like very subtle fire embers, or firefly effect to show where the two forces are annihilating each other. This would be a great way for both the Aliens and the Marines to know "Ok, we're not in friendly territory anymore. Stay frosty." I would assume the Nano-grid and bacteria would be "fighting" each other in between areas that are infested with DI and ones that are powered up. Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree, let's not cram too many things into a core mechanic.
I can imagine a sort of force field in doorways that dictates how far DI can spread into powered territory. Maybe the force fields flash periodically to indicate DI infestation in proximity to the nano-grid.
So far I like motion tracking interference or some other alien stealth advantage, marines on hivesight and add in alien building limitations. Where only res nodes and hydras can be built off of DI. And other buildings outside of DI slowly lose health?
Speaking of stealth, give drifters some stealth in the DI too.
<!--quoteo(post=1814051:date=Dec 6 2010, 10:22 PM:name=Lepock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lepock @ Dec 6 2010, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of stealth, give drifters some stealth in the DI too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
* shorting out marine structures * can not grow into powered rooms without support (gridlock!) * - if supported to grow into room, can destroy powernode * veins dropping from ceiling act like ns1 webs * slows down marines, normal movespeed for aliens (slower on marine stuff) * grows through blocked doors and bulkheads * if burned by fire or ice it should scream and fall back some meters and avoid that marine(s) where possible * should cover and conceal alien structures like the structure did pull a blanked over itself -> a pack of creatures depending on this creeper would develop low profile structures that are not more than a bumb you would trip over, but with leathal effects like spikes, gas and crap while the creeper forms a leathery membrane around said structure.
-I would like to see the DI atmospheric effects include a fog which is very dense/opaque for marines but very transparent for aliens.
-Or DI areas becoming very dim lighted for marine but glowing in bright colors for alien. Mimicking aliens seeing a different light spectrum. I've mentioned this before and the example I give is what you see in avatar with the Blue guys being able to see well at night.
-I'd also like to see DI as a pre-requisite for most alien structures. Has that been said?
I'd like to see Gorges spreading DI using their personal res, which allows the Alien Commander to build structures with a greatly reduced cost (say, -50%) when built on dynamic infestation. This would help bridge the disconnect currently present between the Alien commander and the rest of the team.
I would also like to see DI bonuses as upgradable by the Alien commander (e.g. regeneration bonuses, cloaking, etc.)
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI should make aliens invisible from motion tracking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shades should perform this function. This is what I think:
<ul><li>Orange bioluminescent pods that grow from established infestation. It takes a bit of time to grow that thick: <img src="http://www.nofrag.com/images/003daa.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></li><li>Speed boost, or some other passive benefit</li><li>"Nydus" networks that connect different parts of the map, or quick access points between hives. </li><li>DI gradually dies and contracts in powered rooms. </li><li>Gorges vomit infestation seeds to help spread infestation quicker</li></ul>
I'm pretty sure the devs have thought of ALL of this stuff and probably much more. It will take a lot of time and work to get it all implemented and tested properly. In my opinion, this will be the signature feature that really sells this game to a lot of new players.
<!--quoteo(post=1813977:date=Dec 6 2010, 06:00 PM:name=senor_hybrido)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (senor_hybrido @ Dec 6 2010, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI should make aliens invisible from motion tracking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the opposite. Instead, have DI give several false positives from any alien, and allow mild cloaking for skulks once researched - giving the skulks flesh that mimics DI passively and DI that will ripple to give a slight silhouette of a skulk. Experienced marines will easily be able to fight it off, but for everyone else, it would be panic inducing terror, as it should be.
IMHO, invisibility to motion tracking only leads to marines being just as alert as they were when they didn't have it.
is scent of fear upgrade still in? DI should give provide scent of fear every time a marine steps on it as it can detect the presence of humans and feeds the co ordinate information back to the hive
<!--quoteo(post=1814139:date=Dec 7 2010, 04:13 PM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Dec 7 2010, 04:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be interesting if the Alien commander could trigger certain areas of infestation to block off passageways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An interesting idea might be to allow the alien commander to grow structures spontaneously on DI. Rather than having to use a drifter he can just place them, they would grow more slowly, but they could be placed en-masse and freely.
A bit like the marine replicate function I suppose.
Comments
That's true currently. Unless they make it so that Power nodes/light take precedence over DI meaning that repairing a power node in a room will cause the DI to retreat back towards the hive.
And if you're not one for immersion or atmosphere, lets drag some of the turret/hydra discussion here. What if alien structures only 'matured' on DI, leaving independent structures weaker? You'd be adding to the asymmetry and another layer for strategy. Or how about DI attacking a powered room directly through only Commander interaction? Or vice versa? There are literately hundreds of directions the game design behind Dynamic Infestation can take NS2, this is just how I've been picturing it.
The power grid gameplay will probably be what makes or breaks NS2. Basically, it will control all the atmosphere and strategy NS2 has to offer. It is also a very intuitive gameplay mechanic that would make a very strong selling point to potential buyers, both scifi fans and competitive players. (Hell, the DI video from years ago made me excited for NS2 in the first place!) I honestly can't think of a feature more critical to NS2 than the power grid system, and it cannot function properly without the Dynamic Infestation half.
With that in mind, we've seen very little of it in the Beta, which just blows me away. It's something I would have expected the Alpha to prioritize, yet we didn't even see it in the Alpha. I'm sure DI is an extremely complicated feature to program, and I'm sure it will break the Beta terribly, but the power grid system is not complete without it. For the love of all that is holy, just throw in a terribly cheap place holder so we can start doing REAL tests of the REAL NS2.
If I seem frustrated, yes, I am very frustrated. The incredible NS2 I have imagined over the years is heading in a very underwhelming direction, and that terrifies me. Normally I'd just shut my trap and watch, but I loved NS1 too much to let that happen without putting up a fight. And it seems I am not alone, either.
Hypothetically......if they run outta cash I would pay more money if that would guarantee a non-laggy NS2 with Dynamic Infestation. I wish they would update us on it, even if to say they stopped working on it and will start again when everything else is working,.
Which would seem logical as the Nanite gridlock would be active again to reclaim and protect that sector from the Growth...
Damn Kouji_San. You get +100 Internets from me.
looked like a great tool in sc2 pro matches, I can see it forcing com/alien cooperation as well, which is sort of lacking at the moment
edit: would be great with onus, since smaller tunnels would offer an 'escape' for rines. A com could just seal up the smaller tunnel and let the onus play
i like this a lot and i agree.
in the hive room where DI active strongly in here, aliens eggs should be buried within the infestattion or the eggs themselves have much stronger shell.
<!--quoteo(post=1813832:date=Dec 6 2010, 07:37 AM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Dec 6 2010, 07:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but what will destroy the other? will a powernode stop the spread of DI or will DI damage a powernode? Also Wasnt there a mention of the flamethrower destroying DI? will that be the main purpose of the flamer?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DI depowers Marine rooms, and the primary function of the flamethrower is the removal of DI.
I hope DI doesn't damage Power Nodes, rather prevent portable power nodes from being constructed. Both would be overkill, depending on how DI spreads (in powered or unpowered rooms only, or both).
Would force marines to keep pushing there noses out beyond lines of defense to keep the di down also
I hope DI doesn't damage Power Nodes, rather prevent portable power nodes from being constructed. Both would be overkill, depending on how DI spreads (in powered or unpowered rooms only, or both).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I think that the power nodes should repulse DI, putting the emphasis on aliens to kill power nodes and marines to keep them repaired.
I also like the aforementioned idea of rooms being neutral at the start and then there being an obvious control shift in which team "owns" the room. (with associated benefits for that team) It promotes small objective based strategies where the balance of power can be shifted back and forth many times over the course of the game. This essentially becomes an extension of what it meant to have control of an RT in a room in NS1 but with much better payoffs and cooler gameplay possibilities.
I do however really want to see one thing with DI and the Nano-grid. There should be some kind of FX or "line" denoting where the bacteria and the Nano-grid are canceling each other out. Like very subtle fire embers, or firefly effect to show where the two forces are annihilating each other. This would be a great way for both the Aliens and the Marines to know "Ok, we're not in friendly territory anymore. Stay frosty." I would assume the Nano-grid and bacteria would be "fighting" each other in between areas that are infested with DI and ones that are powered up. Thoughts?
I do however really want to see one thing with DI and the Nano-grid. There should be some kind of FX or "line" denoting where the bacteria and the Nano-grid are canceling each other out. Like very subtle fire embers, or firefly effect to show where the two forces are annihilating each other. This would be a great way for both the Aliens and the Marines to know "Ok, we're not in friendly territory anymore. Stay frosty." I would assume the Nano-grid and bacteria would be "fighting" each other in between areas that are infested with DI and ones that are powered up. Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree, let's not cram too many things into a core mechanic.
I can imagine a sort of force field in doorways that dictates how far DI can spread into powered territory. Maybe the force fields flash periodically to indicate DI infestation in proximity to the nano-grid.
Speaking of stealth, give drifters some stealth in the DI too.
I think we already have Shades for that :)
* can not grow into powered rooms without support (gridlock!)
* - if supported to grow into room, can destroy powernode
* veins dropping from ceiling act like ns1 webs
* slows down marines, normal movespeed for aliens (slower on marine stuff)
* grows through blocked doors and bulkheads
* if burned by fire or ice it should scream and fall back some meters and avoid that marine(s) where possible
* should cover and conceal alien structures like the structure did pull a blanked over itself
-> a pack of creatures depending on this creeper would develop low profile structures that are not more than a bumb you would trip over, but with leathal effects like spikes, gas and crap while the creeper forms a leathery membrane around said structure.
-Or DI areas becoming very dim lighted for marine but glowing in bright colors for alien. Mimicking aliens seeing a different light spectrum. I've mentioned this before and the example I give is what you see in avatar with the Blue guys being able to see well at night.
-I'd also like to see DI as a pre-requisite for most alien structures. Has that been said?
I would also like to see DI bonuses as upgradable by the Alien commander (e.g. regeneration bonuses, cloaking, etc.)
Shades should perform this function. This is what I think:
<ul><li>Orange bioluminescent pods that grow from established infestation. It takes a bit of time to grow that thick:
<img src="http://www.nofrag.com/images/003daa.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></li><li>Speed boost, or some other passive benefit</li><li>"Nydus" networks that connect different parts of the map, or quick access points between hives. </li><li>DI gradually dies and contracts in powered rooms. </li><li>Gorges vomit infestation seeds to help spread infestation quicker</li></ul>
I'm pretty sure the devs have thought of ALL of this stuff and probably much more. It will take a lot of time and work to get it all implemented and tested properly. In my opinion, this will be the signature feature that really sells this game to a lot of new players.
I think the opposite. Instead, have DI give several false positives from any alien, and allow mild cloaking for skulks once researched - giving the skulks flesh that mimics DI passively and DI that will ripple to give a slight silhouette of a skulk. Experienced marines will easily be able to fight it off, but for everyone else, it would be panic inducing terror, as it should be.
IMHO, invisibility to motion tracking only leads to marines being just as alert as they were when they didn't have it.
I believe that is why we have hydras/whips.
A bit like the marine replicate function I suppose.