Pancaking

PapayasPapayas Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Is it still going to be in?</div>I was just wondering if pancaking was going to be included in NS2.
I guess it would be but wouldn't roosting and all of the map destails mess it up?

I could be wrong but it is better knowing than not knowing at all :P
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  • BRICEBRICE Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72453Members
    Ok what does pancaking mean?
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  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1801166:date=Oct 10 2010, 01:53 PM:name=BRICE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BRICE @ Oct 10 2010, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok what does pancaking mean?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Abusing interpolation by quickly moving vertically up and down as a lerk, so that your player model and hitbox are not in sync by a large margin.
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1801167:date=Oct 10 2010, 12:07 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Faskalia @ Oct 10 2010, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Abusing interpolation by quickly moving vertically up and down as a lerk, so that your player model and hitbox are not in sync by a large margin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Also tricky to hit in general. The hitboxes are a lot better that they were when lerk was quicker.
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  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    Quick answer: No.
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  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?&#33; Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1801198:date=Oct 10 2010, 01:48 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Oct 10 2010, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801198"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quick answer: No.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks for the answer, unlisted NS2 developer
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  • Antonio Gramscix420Antonio Gramscix420 Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72554Members
    I can confirm, it is in the game. Happy fragging :p.
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  • WhiteZeroWhiteZero That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Members, Constellation
    Worst "feature" ever.
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  • KarrdeKarrde Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16264Members
    I really hope you aren't thinking to have an exploit ingame. The motion is fine though.
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  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1801210:date=Oct 10 2010, 08:25 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ Oct 10 2010, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the answer, unlisted NS2 developer<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think there is less than 10% chance of pancaking not being in NS2. Charlie could go bat ###### insane and do something stupid as some designers are wont to do. That's the >10% chance I'm talking about.

    Because I think I am right about a particular issue, I answer questions about this particular issue according to my belief. This is called being informative and is seen as a widely positive and desired trait by people on average.

    Why do I think I am right? Because pancaking is stupid ######. NS2 is not a mod and probably won't have stupid ###### in it just for the hell of it. The developers of NS2 are pretty smart. "Not putting stupid ###### in your game just for the hell of it" is game design and game development 101.

    Yes, it could be fun. It could "add" something to NS2. So can pretty much anything. Part of making a game is not putting stupid ###### which may or may not be fun in it. "Being an okay addition" is not the metric we use for game mechanic worth. "Being the best possible addition" is the metric we use for game mechanic worth if we can. This means a proposed game mechanic can't be stupid ######.
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    The hitbox desync part is probably bad in the golden book of desing, but at least I see it only as a part of what goes under the term pancaking. Trying to treat it as a completely positive or negative feature that either is or isn't in the game is terrible design discussion if you ask me.

    Good luck designing an intuitive flight model that doesn't allow some kind of up and down evasive movement. I think there's a 90% chance that NS2 lerk has mechanics that have <b>some</b> resemblance to pancaking.
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  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Why do people love bug abuse so much? Bunny hopping, pancaking... isn't it enough to just fly evasively? Why would UWE purposefully programme in bugs and exploits?

    Some very strange points of view on here... next people will be asking for a skulk ability that fires flash bangs out its ass at the skybox to blind the commander.
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  • NarcilNarcil Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41426Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1801723:date=Oct 16 2010, 09:07 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 16 2010, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a skulk ability that fires flash bangs out its ass at the skybox to blind the commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hmm you may be onto something here....
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1801723:date=Oct 16 2010, 12:07 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 16 2010, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do people love bug abuse so much? Bunny hopping, pancaking... isn't it enough to just fly evasively? Why would UWE purposefully programme in bugs and exploits?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wait, what makes pancaking bug or exploit?

    Isn't pancaking exactly about flying evasively at the limits of lerk flight model? You don't break any intentional limits of gameplay as far as I know. The hitboxes are sometimes a bit iffy, but it hasn't been that big of a problem since the lerk vertical speed got adjusted.
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  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    No, it isnt as Pancaking is abuse of the extreme differential of the hitbox to model when flying rapidly up and down.

    It WOULD be evasive and not abuse if the Hitbox didn't get shot off the model by oh so few meters... That's why it's abuse! Fix the problem of the hitbox being shifted off model and you got a evasive move, leave like NS1 and you got abuse.
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  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1801733:date=Oct 16 2010, 04:55 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Oct 16 2010, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, what makes pancaking bug or exploit?

    Isn't pancaking exactly about flying evasively at the limits of lerk flight model? You don't break any intentional limits of gameplay as far as I know. The hitboxes are sometimes a bit iffy, but it hasn't been that big of a problem since the lerk vertical speed got adjusted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Are you talking about NS1 or NS2? This is NS2 they are building in spark, not some horrible HL1 netcode... I haven't a problem with 'flying evasively' but as this thread is about hit boxes being off, why would you purposefully add that to a game?
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  • RobBRobB ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I thought pancaking was a quick fluke in the lerk's flightmodel that let you glide indefinite amounts of time in a certain verrsion of ns1?

    anyway, if it is my definition or the simple detachment of the hitbox to the model, it should not be in under any circumstance.
    The reasons are obvious: Who wants to play against someone who can be litterally invulnerable?
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    edited October 2010
    Like I said, at least I define the pancaking as the rapid lerk up and down movement, not as just desyncing the hitbox alone. Desyncing should be gone, that's cool for everyone probably. The movement pattern itself isn't that bad if it serves as a purposeful part of the lerk flight model.

    Edit: So yeah, apparently just people defining it a little different then. The desync itself is bad, the pattern and dodging method aren't.
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  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm all for as much movement as possible without becoming complicated beyond standard FPS controls.
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  • RobBRobB ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    The lerk should use it's stamina for flying only when it's stationary, i.e. trying to hover somewhere to ambush people.
    then this would be cleared anyway.
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  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    As long as the desync problem is removed it's OK, and it should still use energy even when flapping, but not alot compared to hovering.
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  • ThiefThief Ownage Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19214Members, Constellation
    what about when it is hovaring without flapping?
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  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    how would it hover without flapping?!?! Do lerks contain little Rotors in their wings and turn them on?
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  • RobBRobB ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2010
    It's a running gag. Someone going by the nick of "smart-bomb" made his first post on this forum that included "a scorpian that hovars without flapping".
    A webcomic that was situated under retales.tk with the name "nanites and bacterium" picked it up later and made it known to more people.

    By what I could gather this user was at least as hilarious as the current I&S trolls that may or may not have a wolf in their nickname.
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  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    so he's a ###### in short?
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  • RobBRobB ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Let's just say smart-bomb was not so smart.
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  • JirikiJiriki retired ns1 player Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11780Members, NS1 Playtester, Squad Five Silver
    Clealy a lot of people who have mastered lerk posting here.
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  • ryknow69ryknow69 Join Date: 2008-03-24 Member: 63952Members
    Me? Nope :) that was my brother, im the skulker >=D
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  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1802259:date=Oct 21 2010, 11:30 PM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Oct 21 2010, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Clealy a lot of people who have mastered lerk posting here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is a monotheistic forum.
    There is only one lerk master and his name is sublime!
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  • enigmaticenigmatic Join Date: 2007-09-23 Member: 62411Members
    edited October 2010
    In my eyes pancaking means evasive up and down movement as lerk, not that bug stuff you all moan about.

    Pancaking should be included in ns2 because it rewards time spent practising etc. If you don't know what I'm talking about have a look at sheep and phil lerking. Enough said
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  • EzekielEzekiel Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3006Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1802637:date=Oct 25 2010, 10:54 AM:name=enigmatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (enigmatic @ Oct 25 2010, 10:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802637"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pancaking means evasive up and down movement as lerk, not that bug stuff you all moan about.

    Pancaking should be included in ns2 because it rewards time spent practising etc. If you don't know what I'm talking about have a look at sheep and phil lerking. Enough said<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    *golfclap*
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