Pancaking

ryknow69

im not against the move itself, just the bug involved with it in NS1

RobB

<!--quoteo(post=1802637:date=Oct 25 2010, 12:54 PM:name=enigmatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (enigmatic @ Oct 25 2010, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802637"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pancaking should be included in ns2 because it rewards time spent practising etc. If you don't know what I'm talking about have a look at sheep and phil lerking. Enough said<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Marines should be able to wallwalk a la gunz the duell. But make it ultra hard so you need to learn and practice.
See what I did there?

If something is deemed unfit for the game, it has to be weeded out. And my impression is that UWE actually aims for a fair game with evenly distributed strategies and gameplay.

enigmatic

Elaborate on your post please. I can't find a single valid argument against pancaking in it.

I already told you what to do if you didn't know what I was talking about.

RobB

Because implementing a move which aims for the detachment of hitboxes is totally and 110% a no go in terms of gamedesign!

enigmatic

Wow, guess you should actually read what other people write before posting. Here's a quick recap
<!--quoteo(post=1802637:date=Oct 25 2010, 10:54 AM:name=enigmatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (enigmatic @ Oct 25 2010, 10:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1802637"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pancaking means evasive up and down movement as lerk,<b> not that bug stuff you all moan about</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cerebral

<!--quoteo(post=1803073:date=Oct 27 2010, 11:31 AM:name=enigmatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (enigmatic @ Oct 27 2010, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, guess you should actually read what other people write before posting. Here's a quick recap<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Not really. Pancaking is exploiting the implementation of evasive up and down movement to mis-align your hitbox. The former should stay in the game since it is a movement skill while the latter should be removed as it is a bug.

Faskalia

<!--quoteo(post=1803073:date=Oct 27 2010, 05:31 PM:name=enigmatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (enigmatic @ Oct 27 2010, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, guess you should actually read what other people write before posting. Here's a quick recap
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Pancaking means evasive up and down movement as lerk, not that bug stuff you all moan about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Quoting yourself as a form of validation or emphasize...

Two can play that game:

<!--quoteo(post=1801167:date=Oct 10 2010, 02:07 PM:name=)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ Oct 10 2010, 02:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Abusing interpolation by quickly moving vertically up and down as a lerk, so that your player model and hitbox are not in sync by a large margin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

enigmatic

Wow, guess I should actually read what I write before posting. Edited

MuYeah

Pancaking since the vertical speed cap hasn't been a problem. I don't understand why so many people are whining, ballpark figure 95% of people can't aim at a lerk flying up and down well enough that a de-synced hitbox even matters.

Ezekiel

<!--quoteo(post=1803466:date=Oct 28 2010, 12:06 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Oct 28 2010, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803466"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pancaking since the vertical speed cap hasn't been a problem. I don't understand why so many people are whining, ballpark figure 95% of people can't aim at a lerk flying up and down well enough that a de-synced hitbox even matters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
let's cater to the lowest common denominator!

ryknow69

the figure's size doesn't matter, a bug is a bug and bugs need to be squashed, scrapped, and removed.

Bacillus

<!--quoteo(post=1803472:date=Oct 28 2010, 01:55 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryknow69 @ Oct 28 2010, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the figure's size doesn't matter, a bug is a bug and bugs need to be squashed, scrapped, and removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're referring to the hitbox desync, you're badly lost. It's not a bug, it's just general inaccuracy caused by delay on connections and prediction part of the network code. There's no way to eliminate it completely. Walking around desyncs your hitbox to some extend, should we remove that?

It's all about keeping the hitbox issues on a manageable size and as far as I've understood 3.2 already does that, at least on lerk's part.

I'm not the guy to track a decent lerk at high accuracy, but if a few decent marines/lerks (enigma and mu to start with) think the desync isn't an issue anymore I'm more than willing to believe them. I haven't had any bigger issues with lerks that I'm occassionally able to track either.

Thaldarin

I see birds pancake in the street all the time. Pigeons just throwing themselves up and down in fits when attack people...

Oh come on pancaking is dumb from every aspect.

pSyk0mAn

These birds don't have to dodge bullets all the time.

Lerks are just evolved Pigeons that were shot at over centuries.

MuYeah

You would rather have them move sluggishly and predictably? Brilliant!

Jiriki

In NS1, with high server FPS (and proper lag compensation) the hitboxes can follow the model decently, its not a big issue but it adds a lot to lerk gameplay. Since the vertical speed was capped, it couldn't be exploited and pro lerks like phil couldn't use their whirlwind anymore.

Some people to seem to be "against" pancaking without properly defining what it means. If you mean the hitbox abuse, I do think the engine needs to keep up with the models. Then some other people seem to think lerks apparently shouldn't be allowed to fly up and down, instead relatively straight. Yeah that sounds good. Let's remove all the skill elements of NS.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see birds pancake in the street all the time. Pigeons just throwing themselves up and down in fits when attack people...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said they were based on pigeons? Birds shooting gas or projectiles is unrealistic, yeah lets remove it too.