Natural Selection 2 News Update - The Flamethrower

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  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800664:date=Oct 3 2010, 02:11 AM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Oct 3 2010, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800664"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alt-Fire switching off pilot light is sounding like a great idea. Keeps it simple and logical. Spray unlit fuel down with alt-fire, and light it with the primary fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Like I've mentioned before I believe NS2's heavy nanite usage should warrent an extended feature to this simple method. That being that primary fire is the normal flamethrower (pilot flame on), while holding alt-fire (turns pilot flame off) sprays unlit fuel and tapping alt-fire causes nanites intermixed with the unlit fuel to spontaniously combust, causing a major fire bomb depending on how much fuel has been sprayed. That way the unlit fuel can be ignite either by primary fire or this trigger mode.
  • EyelessEyeless Join Date: 2010-02-01 Member: 70391Members
    OMG a spreadsheet no way!!!!!! does the game work yet?
  • EldonEldon Join Date: 2010-07-15 Member: 72414Members, Constellation
    edited October 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1800666:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:05 PM:name=Eyeless)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eyeless @ Oct 3 2010, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OMG a spreadsheet no way!!!!!! does the game work yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't normally resort to personal insults but I hope an Onos eats you IRL so you stop typing - I've read about three of your posts and it was three to many. When NS2 becomes playable could you please PM me a list of your favorite servers so I can avoid them.

    Thanks in advance.
  • AtoneAtone Join Date: 2009-09-21 Member: 68839Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800666:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:05 AM:name=Eyeless)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eyeless @ Oct 3 2010, 08:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OMG a spreadsheet no way!!!!!! does the game work yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I know this is all you post about and you've probably been told this 50 times (and you're probably just trolling), but here I go:

    The engine programming and game coding are done by different people. Charlie works on the game, not the engine, so it only makes sense that he's continuing to add to / tweak the game. Max (and probably the new programmer?) are hard at work making things playable.

    Cry more.
  • zecranzecran Join Date: 2010-10-03 Member: 74288Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800554:date=Oct 1 2010, 11:50 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryknow69 @ Oct 1 2010, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or have it, while idle(or not used in the last 5 seconds) aimed down, cause the forward weight would be too much to handle at a firing position continually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This + a slight delay to firing again from this position, with the option (rapid clicks or something) to panic fire instantly, basically shooting down right in front of you, dealing a little bit of damage to yourself but then again giving instant defense.

    With volumetric the pillar of fire first bouncing off the ground and then rising would look sweet and you could really see when the flamethrower user gets startled by a skulk suddenly coming from around the corner.
  • Donner & BlitzenDonner & Blitzen Join Date: 2010-03-08 Member: 70879Members
    Awesome update! Though the first thing I thought of when I saw the flamethrower was that it was very unergonomic and feels unbalanced. I would suggest moving the forward grip to the left, so that the left wrist does not appear to be twisting and straining in order to hold the grip as it does now. Sort of like this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRRq_dYtaZQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRRq_dYtaZQ</a>

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We played around with having targets on fire set others nearby on fire, but it quickly became apparent that it would be abused by griefers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    How about giving the ability for aliens on fire set <i>Marines</i> on fire on contact? Imagine a skulk being set on fire, only for that skulk to leap at its attacker in a final act of defiance, setting them both on fire?
  • NordomNordom Join Date: 2007-07-28 Member: 61694Members
    Please increase the volume on the screams. This is fire we are talking about and it hurts!

    Make the hive scream louder so you almost feel bad for BBQ'ing it. Same with the other structures more of a scream and more of a blood curdling one!

    It doesn't have to be too much of a increase somewhere from a 25% to 50% volume increase on the hive would go a long way. =D
  • korvokorvo Join Date: 2009-11-19 Member: 69427Members, Squad Five Blue
    <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Outch<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->, that hurts! Poor aliens.
  • RedeemerRedeemer Join Date: 2004-01-20 Member: 25521Members, Constellation
    How about a fire exinguisher as secondary fire?
    and friendly fire...
    so the one with the flamethrower needs to be in front of the team (less risk to burn the others)

    this way you could make a leaking gas pipe in the level... once ignited it burns and blocks the way for all players.
    Only a fire estinguisher or gorge can stop the flame.
  • Special_KSpecial_K Join Date: 2003-04-19 Member: 15637Members, Constellation
    The hive on fire animation is VERY cool.
  • FocusedWolfFocusedWolf Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
    edited October 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1800666:date=Oct 3 2010, 03:05 AM:name=Eyeless)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eyeless @ Oct 3 2010, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OMG a spreadsheet no way!!!!!! does the game work yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I lol'd.

    I wonder if they will put this spreadsheet up for download. :P
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Members
    edited October 2010
    If you guys really want the flamethrower to have a secondary ability, may i suggest killing two birds with one stone, and having the ability to clear dynamic infestation be it's secondary fire? random example being, secondary fire would add a SPECIAL liquid compound to the fuel that is used to burn specifically the DI, but at a slightly higher fuel cost. This method may also indirectly reduce the problem of flame throwers being OP in presently defended DI areas so that holding down M1 doesn't ignite everything and anything, but would rather need the wielder to choose what to burn. And/or alternatively, make the regular fire less destructive against DI and vice versa.
  • sickboysickboy Join Date: 2003-09-13 Member: 20804Members, Constellation
    edited October 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1800681:date=Oct 3 2010, 10:21 AM:name=Redeemer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Redeemer @ Oct 3 2010, 10:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about a fire exinguisher as secondary fire?
    and friendly fire...
    so the one with the flamethrower needs to be in front of the team (less risk to burn the others)

    this way you could make a leaking gas pipe in the level... once ignited it burns and blocks the way for all players.
    Only a fire estinguisher or gorge can stop the flame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Friendly fire is usually a server-side variable, so on servers that don't allow it (the majority of them), the secondary would be rendered useless. Granted, I love FF servers, and if FF was forced I'd be all over this suggestion (it was certainly a useful feature in Alien Swarm)... but I doubt it will be. FF is not new player-friendly.

    I'd rather see a napalm-ish type effect, where you can light an area of the scenery on fire to block a path. Whether that is a classic TF-style napalm 'nade/rocket, a "sticky" flame that you just spray wherever you want a temporary barrier to be, or a GMOD-mod style "squirt fluid on the area, then light it" doesn't matter much to me since the end result is the same: a flaming barrier of burny goodness.

    I just think that ANY kind of way to make a temporary barrier (which I'd imagine would really only be super useful for blocking vents (and therefore mostly an anti-skulk/lerk measure) since everything else aside from the onos, which wouldn't be harmed much by a puny little fire on the ground, would have a way to get over a hallway fire) would make perfect sense with flamethrower gameplay.

    <!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->All in all, I don't see the flamethrower as much of an offensive weapon. I see it more as a support gun for DI destruction, *supplemental* damage, and, if a napalm effect was added as a secondary, an on-the-spot defensive tool.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Hitting a skulk in the face with a flamethrower (which traditionally is a short-mid range weapon) may eventually kill it, but it'll probably rip your throat out before it does, and trying to kite a fade or onos? HA! Yeah... that just sounds like a panic attack in the making.
  • saltybp53saltybp53 Join Date: 2010-07-22 Member: 72675Members
    The ammo counter seems to be bars rather then numbers, and i prefer numbers so I know EXACTLY how much ammo I have. But maybe i'll grow onto it :D
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    Throwing fuel on the floor? Seems a bit op, just a higher damage burst like a flame ball with a short fall off seems like a better route than making things more complex for the gameplay.
  • JAmazonJAmazon Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800703:date=Oct 4 2010, 12:25 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Oct 4 2010, 12:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Throwing fuel on the floor? Seems a bit op, just a higher damage burst like a flame ball with a short fall off seems like a better route than making things more complex for the gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Perhaps even a charge up type ability. Where you hold down the alt fire to pressurize some gas and then lob a flaming cannon ball >:D
  • ScribblesScribbles Join Date: 2003-11-05 Member: 22323Members
    The hive should only flail like that when it's very close to dying.

    To the Kharaa, the hive is essentially their palace. It's got a lot of health, it inspires them. It''s size alone makes you want to defend it.

    Now on comes a single marine with a flamethrower. He puffs the hive with a short burst of flame, sets it on fire and the hive starts flailing around and screaming like a spoiled brat who didn't get his icecream. It makes the hive, supposedly the most powerful alien structure, look incredibly weak.

    Also, these structures are immobile. Where the heck do they get the muscle strength to flail around their bodies and tentacles like that?

    I love the flamethrower as a concept, but to me it looks more annoying than impressive at the moment.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    It looks awesome and a blast to play with!! The reaction of alien structures to fire really gives life to the weapon. Very nice work guys! The attention to details like this really ties the whole thing together.

    I've read through alt-fire suggestion and none feel appropriate. The different spread idea was nice propose by i cant remember (large cone with short distance against fine cone with long distance) or extra burst (suggested by jamazon just above) are the ones which have most sens to me for some fun action.
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    edited October 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1800707:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:27 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Oct 3 2010, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It looks awesome and a blast to play with!! The reaction of alien structures to fire really gives life to the weapon. Very nice work guys! The attention to details like this really ties the whole thing together.

    I've read through alt-fire suggestion and none feel appropriate. The different spread idea was nice propose by i cant remember (large cone with short distance against fine cone with long distance) or extra burst (suggested by jamazon just above) are the ones which have most sens to me for some fun action.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok this might be making the flamethrower an overcomplicated weapon but what if all of the ideas were combined.

    primary fire is the normal flame however the nozzle pressure opening can be regulated by the mouse wheel or alternatively a key+mouse wheel combination to still allow for changing weapons with mouse wheel. So while flaming away with the flamethrower you hold down the "key" and turn the mouse wheel in either direction to increase/decrease the nozzle size ejecting the fuel, smaller opening means narrower stream, means greater distance. So you get a tight flame which travels far, doesn't do as much damage. wider nozzle opening means more spread and spraying which means the flame burns hotter and does more damage but travels less distance so useful for close combat.

    This combined with the spewing unlit fuel with alt-fire means you have greater control with the same method as for the primary. narrower nozzle means you can spray precisely at greater distances, wider nozzle means you can carpet a near surface quickly with lots of unlite fuel. Combine this with my suggestion of tapping alt-fire triggered nanites intermixed with the fuel that will ignite the fuel and you got a great recipe for kharaa whipping mayhem and traplaying.

    And would make for the most unique flamethrower I've ever seen in any game without being overly complicated. <!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><b>primary fire = flamethrower, holding alt-fire = spray fuel, tap alt-fire = trigger nanites to ignite sprayed fuel, "key"+mouse wheel = regulate nozzle opening for varied distance/spread.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

    What do you guys think?
  • naughty_skulkernaughty_skulker Join Date: 2003-08-31 Member: 20411Members
    LOVE the hive animation, looks very alive. Not so sure I like the screaming hive SFX but it's not bad either.

    Not a fan of the flamethrower's design, like the axe imo it looks too primitive. I mean it's nice design/modelling work but just as a personal opinion I would have rather have had something more future tec overall. It does have a sort of interesting retractable thing going on but it's general design looks pretty clunky. Imo.

    That said, I'm super happy that this game will have a flamethrower included and it's special function of infestation clearing sounds like a great way to give it a definitive role.

    Also curious to see what the team has in mind for it's secondary function.

    Here's my two cents;

    Maybe it could have a secondary "gel" fuel that can be slopped over surfaces/enemies. The gel could have a trigger time of 60 seconds or so for it to react to fire/explosives, being highly flammable allowing for fire trap tactics. Once ignited the gel would burn for longer than using just the primary fire and could stick to enemies. It could do roughly the same damage as the primary fire over a longer time period but allow for the user to avoid constant close proximity. The gel would be "heavy" so very limited in range. It would require the user to get somewhat close to use it on an enemy so it's use might not be so effective against the faster aliens but great against slower moving Onos or structures.
  • TwiggehTwiggeh Join Date: 2010-09-24 Member: 74165Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800709:date=Oct 4 2010, 03:06 AM:name=Cruor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cruor @ Oct 4 2010, 03:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok this might be making the flamethrower an overcomplicated weapon but what if all of the ideas were combined.

    primary fire is the normal flame however the nozzle pressure opening can be regulated by the mouse wheel or alternatively a key+mouse wheel combination to still allow for changing weapons with mouse wheel. So while flaming away with the flamethrower you hold down the "key" and turn the mouse wheel in either direction to increase/decrease the nozzle size ejecting the fuel, smaller opening means narrower stream, means greater distance. So you get a tight flame which travels far, doesn't do as much damage. wider nozzle opening means more spread and spraying which means the flame burns hotter and does more damage but travels less distance so useful for close combat.

    This combined with the spewing unlit fuel with alt-fire means you have greater control with the same method as for the primary. narrower nozzle means you can spray precisely at greater distances, wider nozzle means you can carpet a near surface quickly with lots of unlite fuel. Combine this with my suggestion of tapping alt-fire triggered nanites intermixed with the fuel that will ignite the fuel and you got a great recipe for kharaa whipping mayhem and traplaying.

    And would make for the most unique flamethrower I've ever seen in any game without being overly complicated. <!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><b>primary fire = flamethrower, holding alt-fire = spray fuel, tap alt-fire = trigger nanites to ignite sprayed fuel, "key"+mouse wheel = regulate nozzle opening for varied distance/spread.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

    What do you guys think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I think this is a really interesting idea, though it might present a problem if the mousewheel is used for other keybinds (which it usually is).
    I think alot of people are gonna super-rage everytime they accidentally release mouse1 while still scrolling, so instead of attacking the skulk a few metres away they switch weapon to the axe.
  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    Please, no more magical nanites. Can we just have a gritty, tough, run-over-it-with-a-mack-truck-and-it-still-works flamethrower?

    Also, I just realised sprayed fuel might not be on the table because of the technical challenges it would create. Spraying fuel on a room would necessitate the creation of discrete quanta of 'fuel' entities, with some sort of omni-directional pattern forming view model. That would likely create nightmares for both rendering and bandwidth.

    I'd venture that the reason UWE proposed dropping fuel canisters in the first place was to get around this problem.

    In fact, after hearing all this tap-mouse nanite magical fuel talk, can I just have dropping fuel canisters back?
  • ikirikir Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    Awesome... i can smell cooked aliens!
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2010
    Funny how a screaming alien on fire is creepy and adds a sense of fear to the atmosphere.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio" target="_blank">How about some screaming marines?</a>
  • TigTig Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1800751:date=Oct 4 2010, 01:27 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 4 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Funny how a screaming alien on fire is creepy and adds a sense of fear to the atmosphere.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio" target="_blank">How about some screaming marines?</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    there's no griefing tho (can't set marines on fire). but i agree, there needs to be something that the aliens can do to the marines that makes them scream.
  • LUSITANERLUSITANER Join Date: 2010-09-19 Member: 74086Members
    edited October 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1800727:date=Oct 4 2010, 12:36 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Oct 4 2010, 12:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, no more magical nanites. Can we just have a gritty, tough, run-over-it-with-a-mack-truck-and-it-still-works flamethrower?

    Also, I just realised sprayed fuel might not be on the table because of the technical challenges it would create. Spraying fuel on a room would necessitate the creation of discrete quanta of 'fuel' entities, with some sort of omni-directional pattern forming view model. That would likely create nightmares for both rendering and bandwidth.

    I'd venture that the reason UWE proposed dropping fuel canisters in the first place was to get around this problem.

    In fact, after hearing all this tap-mouse nanite magical fuel talk, can I just have dropping fuel canisters back?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lol im also tired of opinions talking about epicly "O_O" nanites that do everything some1 could imagine. For the spread fuel idea, why not ignite it with main flamethrower attack instead of "O_O" nanites? more realistic and funny. A explosion could also start it.

    I also think a simple canister boom mine would be sweet to spam with

    EDIT: i loved the games full of boom spams :D
  • BetaSwordBetaSword Join Date: 2005-01-18 Member: 36256Members
    edited October 2010
    Well, my Alt-Fire-Suggestion would be, spraying some fuel, making it ideal for laying some fire-traps in combination with mines, pistols,etc.

    Also, an Alien covere with fuel might either burn to death, or till a gorge uses it's health-spray to stop the flames(jumping into water should also help).

    The Mode-switching might be displayed by rotating the pilot-flame away from the Fuel-Stream, so that it doesn't ignite the Fuel.
    That might be either by simply rotating the Tube, or the entire mount of it(being more visible to other players and also showing why the mount is connected with a flexible tube).


    As far as it goes for the reactions of the Buildings:
    The YouTube video shows the tentacles moving violently - This would suggest, that they might damage Marines(Humans) as well as Aliens(Khaara) within range / when hitting.
  • BAshhBAshh Join Date: 2003-08-26 Member: 20222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Man, that's the sexiest CG Fire I've seen in awhile.

    Cudos.
  • KoloyKoloy Join Date: 2010-04-26 Member: 71535Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800527:date=Oct 1 2010, 03:24 PM:name=Sorel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sorel @ Oct 1 2010, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ready to roast?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Flame on.
  • derWalterderWalter Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65323Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1800794:date=Oct 5 2010, 04:25 AM:name=Koloy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koloy @ Oct 5 2010, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800794"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flame on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lets burn!
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