screen shake doesn't really make sense to me. People naturally balance out minor shakes through their legs. If it enough to cause the ground to shake enough for a person not to be able to correct, then the Onos should be falling through the floor by that point.
that's if u're prepared for the ground to start rumbling (which is only if u are expecting an onos, or work a lot on ships). otherwise, u would have problems with shaking, what with balance being off from the wobbling floor. ur legs may absorb some shock, but it doesn't change the movement so much in ur equilibrium (sp).
u dont think u could feel something huge near you without it going through the floor by just walking? i guess u can't hear trains from miles away by putting ur ears on the track either. i mean, if that were the case, by ur logic, the train would have already fallen through the earth.
<!--quoteo(post=1798673:date=Sep 15 2010, 06:25 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Sep 15 2010, 06:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I read that in a book by a game designer, cant remember much else but that always stuck in my head...if you need to add a option to disable something, then its something you are not sure should of been in your game. I find that to ring extremely true and incorperate that into my game design (hobby level, first game yet to be released :p).
I think IF it must be a option you can disable then at least make it a server cvar, so either all have the shake or no one does. Personally I am in favour of the camera shake as it adds some impact to the Onos arriving at the scene, not just 'oh look a Onos, knife it! ' a NS1 Onos tends to have... a Fade is a more formidable opponent in the hands of a skilled player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've read it in a book as well and also, but I still have no idea who actually said it (and the quote is off as well). At any rate, I can agree that it should either be made a server option or not an option at all. The same holds true to many of the "features" that will be making it into a game... but I have more favor for not making it an option at all, client or serverside. If it is in the game, people will learn to live with it. I don't think this or any of the other features that have recently been discussed are going to make people not want to play it.
I have no opinion on this yet as we have yet to see how it's implemented, but I will say that camera shaking effects have made me immediately stop playing a few games in the past - the worst offender that comes to mind is Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood. Between the screen shaking and the blurring effects I wanted to throw my monitor.
A lot of people seem to not like anything that apparently takes away from the gameplay.
I find it hard to believe that screenshake, even if its only cosmetic would take a player away from the gameplay. I honestly don't see how.
Saying it would be "annoying" doesn't really validate it being an actual issue, but more of a personal pet peeve for whatever reason. There are things in games that I can find annoying, but for others don't. I hate in Left 4 Dead that boomer bile basically blinds you. In Left 4 Dead 3, I'm not going to complain that the boomer bile takes the player away from gameplay.
In Bad Company 2, Call of Jurraezd, Crysis, etc the screenshake and blur was a result of letting yourself get shot. I finished COJ and I play BC2 and both of these gameplay elements don't really take me away from the "gameplay". If anything it adds a consequence that adds to the immersion even more.
I think NS2 should have motion blur, shader overlays and screenshakes. I worry that a lot of NS players wanting all these things removed, are the same people who crank the gamma, and dumb down other game settings so they "have the edge" over every other player. I also worry that a lot of these players want NS2 to be carbon copy of the original. How boring would that be?
NS2 should be as atmospheric as it can be. All these little effects add a lot of it.
<!--quoteo(post=1798761:date=Sep 16 2010, 10:36 AM:name=MaLaKa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaLaKa @ Sep 16 2010, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A lot of people seem to not like anything that apparently takes away from the gameplay.
I find it hard to believe that screenshake, even if its only cosmetic would take a player away from the gameplay. I honestly don't see how.
In Bad Company 2, Call of Jurraezd, Crysis, etc the screenshake and blur was a result of letting yourself get shot. I finished COJ and I play BC2 and both of these gameplay elements don't really take me away from the "gameplay". If anything it adds a consequence that adds to the immersion even more.
NS2 should be as atmospheric as it can be. All these little effects add a lot of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You probably misunderstood, instead of taking away gameplay it does not give any its like you said cosmetic thing. I personally do not mind if it very small (unless NS2 is spamfest) but in time if it serves no real purpose it is just going to annoy you as if the fps drops from explosions arent enough nuisance.
I preferred if people wouldnt bring up these realistic war games (unless its gameplay wise) because they are nothing like NS, you should relie on your movement skill on alien and positioning / teamwork on marines instead of your favorite camping spot.
We should not ignore this completely some players get hooked up because of these things but whether if they stay more than month or two is really up to the gameplay. Reminder that we are indeed commenting on multiplayer only game, thing we want to last.
<!--quoteo(post=1798762:date=Sep 16 2010, 09:17 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Sep 16 2010, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798762"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You probably misunderstood, instead of taking away gameplay it does not give any its like you said cosmetic thing. I personally do not mind if it very small (unless NS2 is spamfest) but in time if it serves no real purpose it is just going to annoy you as if the fps drops from explosions arent enough nuisance.
I preferred if people wouldnt bring up these realistic war games (unless its gameplay wise) because they are nothing like NS, you should relie on your movement skill on alien and positioning / teamwork on marines instead of your favorite camping spot.
We should not ignore this completely some players get hooked up because of these things but whether if they stay more than month or two is really up to the gameplay. Reminder that we are indeed commenting on multiplayer only game, thing we want to last.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel it should be both though. Cosmetic for minor things, like explosions or say Onos movement when near. Non intrusive like you say. But it should effect aim and visual further more, if say you are getting stomped, stunned or gored by an Onos.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't mind what direction the game goes, or what the developers choose. I trust them! But every game I've ever played has "annoyances" that players don't like. Justifiable or just plain whining. Some people just get on with it and play the game. Others come to forums and complain about it. Good example for me is the Left 4 Dead series. I love it, but I still hate being bile'd on haha.
I think that in the future when the dev team actually get to adding these type of things, I think a good middle ground will be chosen. For now its all just ideas and brain farts.
I just worry that NS2 is going to be pretty much a visual overhaul of NS (or more-so that is what people are expecting).
Lets just go the whole hog. Not only will the camera shake uncontrollably while the onos is stomping around, throwing your aim off something fierce. You will also stumble while trying to walk possibly even fall over, then when you're trying to get back up skulks can press "use" to take you both into a super awesome quick time event. You both press buttons that appear on the screen until one of you screws up then whoever missed a button press dies.
Bleeding/injuries have got to be in there too, Just imagine getting bitten in the leg by a skulk then only being able to limp around until you die and respawn from loss of blood. Also imagine watching a fade fly at you and slice your shooting arm off, leaving you to drop your gun and try to head butt it to death. Would work pretty much the same for aliens, take a large amount of buckshot to a certain extremity and loose the use of it. (fades with no arms LOL)
And of course the most important feature, IRON SIGHTS AND RECOIL. You can't call a game an fps until it has Iron sights and recoil. They just add so much immersion that they cannot be passed up. Just imagine aiming down your sights at that skulk leaping towards you, pulling the trigger but OH NO! your bullets fly up into the ceiling. You close your eyes in fright as you know your death is imminent (button press for closing eyes?) but lol, your first bullet actually hit the skulk in the leg, he's now crawling towards you whining in pain.
Alone in the Dark had you press a button to blink. It was horrid.
That being said, MaLaKa is right in that there are many features that shouldn't be shouted down just because it doesn't "Add to the gameplay". If you want a perfectly technical gameplay only game, there are plenty of those already in existence and none of them sell.
What Camera shake hopefully will be is more of an aesthetic polish. Hopefully it doesn't bother your aim (thank god we're not doing headshots) but it adds that extra layer of awesome. And really, games do need that extra layer of awesome. As long as it doesn't interfere with gameplay or start reaching diminishing returns for the amount of work/money you spend, I'm moreorless OK with it.
The polish, like slight camera shake, really is what glues all the technical stuff behind the scenes together. The smooth motions, explosions, and sounds in CoD are what make the game so enjoyable. Sure most of the gameplay is pretty good below it all, but everything else just clicks into place as a whole immersive experience.
Now, doing stupid stuff that doesn't fit in the genre (iron sights), detract from gameplay (injury = slower movement), or dimishing returns (vaulting animations and falling off a railing when leaped) shouldn't be done. But Camera shake, in my opinion, can work if done subtly.
A quick time event when fighting a skulk (or whatever) using a use button is disturbing, I don't see it happen in a corridor with some marines, lifeforms, a stomping onos and screen shakes.
Bleeding and injuries must be under parental supervision, to lock this option I mean, and if not build in I guess someone will make a plugin/patch for it.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
As long as it's a minimal shake, I'd be for it. Obviously should have no shake if stationary or walking. The onos needs SOME kind of stealth. If there is a silence upgrade, no camera shake at any time.
I guess with camera shake, Unreal Tournament 3 would be a good example. The shake from using the impact drill, being hit, etc. It's really subtle but it doesn't slow the pace or interfere. The overlayed shaders do a good job too in the same way.
But I agree with you TSS. Bullets should go where the crosshair is (even if it were to move).
This appears to be becoming something of the norm for this community at the moment. Certain people whining about game play elements that haven't even been f*cking implemented yet.
Do people really get worked up over small stuff like this? I don't remember the screen shaking in NS1 being particularly bad with the GL (my favorite weapon), and I trust the dev team isn't going to make it shake very hard, especially since it's generated every time the onos moves.
You could just make it not annoying, being able to tell it's there does not equate to being unable to do anything because the screen is all over the place.
<!--quoteo(post=1798835:date=Sep 16 2010, 07:06 PM:name=TSS)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSS @ Sep 16 2010, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As long as the bullits keep going where the crosshair is, it'll be fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is something that greatly annoys me with BF:BC2, your bullets still go to the center of the screen, even if you're crosshair is wildly moving from getting shot or an explosion or something
My biggest complaints with cvars is that it puts game design in the hands of server ops who probably don't know the first thing about game design. And it makes it difficult for players to know what they can expect when they join a server.
I like the idea of screen shake as long as it's very subtle, i.e. just for effect and not at all disorienting.
Whats with all this nonsense about 'taking control away from players' ? If there is a huge alien stomping about then you wouldnt expect that to feel like a ballerina tiptoeing about would you.
Do dark areas of maps also annoy people because it limits their ability to see perfectly? The aliens must be annoying because they can hurt you and kill you which takes away control! please remove all the aliens from this game now!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1798994:date=Sep 18 2010, 07:18 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Sep 18 2010, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do dark areas of maps also annoy people because it limits their ability to see perfectly?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does, actually. Hence all the display hacks.
<!--quoteo(post=1798797:date=Sep 16 2010, 07:37 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Sep 16 2010, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Alone in the Dark had you press a button to blink. It was horrid.</b>
That being said, MaLaKa is right in that there are many features that shouldn't be shouted down just because it doesn't "Add to the gameplay". If you want a perfectly technical gameplay only game, there are plenty of those already in existence and none of them sell.
What Camera shake hopefully will be is more of an aesthetic polish. Hopefully it doesn't bother your aim (thank god we're not doing headshots) but it adds that extra layer of awesome. And really, games do need that extra layer of awesome. As long as it doesn't interfere with gameplay or start reaching diminishing returns for the amount of work/money you spend, I'm moreorless OK with it.
The polish, like slight camera shake, really is what glues all the technical stuff behind the scenes together. The smooth motions, explosions, and sounds in CoD are what make the game so enjoyable. Sure most of the gameplay is pretty good below it all, but everything else just clicks into place as a whole immersive experience.
Now, doing stupid stuff that doesn't fit in the genre (iron sights), detract from gameplay (injury = slower movement), or dimishing returns (vaulting animations and falling off a railing when leaped) shouldn't be done. But Camera shake, in my opinion, can work if done subtly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahah I couldn't even play that game for more than half an hour without getting bored, needed more action/tension and less stupid buttons for breathing and blinking.
Comments
I personally would welcome screenshake similar to that which Runteh just posted in his L4D2 video.
Slight motion blur at fast speeds would be fantastic too (onos top speed, leap, fade blink and JP).
u dont think u could feel something huge near you without it going through the floor by just walking? i guess u can't hear trains from miles away by putting ur ears on the track either. i mean, if that were the case, by ur logic, the train would have already fallen through the earth.
I find that to ring extremely true and incorperate that into my game design (hobby level, first game yet to be released :p).
I think IF it must be a option you can disable then at least make it a server cvar, so either all have the shake or no one does.
Personally I am in favour of the camera shake as it adds some impact to the Onos arriving at the scene, not just 'oh look a Onos, knife it!
' a NS1 Onos tends to have... a Fade is a more formidable opponent in the hands of a skilled player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've read it in a book as well and also, but I still have no idea who actually said it (and the quote is off as well). At any rate, I can agree that it should either be made a server option or not an option at all. The same holds true to many of the "features" that will be making it into a game... but I have more favor for not making it an option at all, client or serverside. If it is in the game, people will learn to live with it. I don't think this or any of the other features that have recently been discussed are going to make people not want to play it.
I find it hard to believe that screenshake, even if its only cosmetic would take a player away from the gameplay. I honestly don't see how.
Saying it would be "annoying" doesn't really validate it being an actual issue, but more of a personal pet peeve for whatever reason. There are things in games that I can find annoying, but for others don't. I hate in Left 4 Dead that boomer bile basically blinds you. In Left 4 Dead 3, I'm not going to complain that the boomer bile takes the player away from gameplay.
In Bad Company 2, Call of Jurraezd, Crysis, etc the screenshake and blur was a result of letting yourself get shot. I finished COJ and I play BC2 and both of these gameplay elements don't really take me away from the "gameplay". If anything it adds a consequence that adds to the immersion even more.
I think NS2 should have motion blur, shader overlays and screenshakes. I worry that a lot of NS players wanting all these things removed, are the same people who crank the gamma, and dumb down other game settings so they "have the edge" over every other player. I also worry that a lot of these players want NS2 to be carbon copy of the original. How boring would that be?
NS2 should be as atmospheric as it can be. All these little effects add a lot of it.
I find it hard to believe that screenshake, even if its only cosmetic would take a player away from the gameplay. I honestly don't see how.
In Bad Company 2, Call of Jurraezd, Crysis, etc the screenshake and blur was a result of letting yourself get shot. I finished COJ and I play BC2 and both of these gameplay elements don't really take me away from the "gameplay". If anything it adds a consequence that adds to the immersion even more.
NS2 should be as atmospheric as it can be. All these little effects add a lot of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You probably misunderstood, instead of taking away gameplay it does not give any its like you said cosmetic thing. I personally do not mind if it very small (unless NS2 is spamfest) but in time if it serves no real purpose it is just going to annoy you as if the fps drops from explosions arent enough nuisance.
I preferred if people wouldnt bring up these realistic war games (unless its gameplay wise) because they are nothing like NS, you should relie on your movement skill on alien and positioning / teamwork on marines instead of your favorite camping spot.
We should not ignore this completely some players get hooked up because of these things but whether if they stay more than month or two is really up to the gameplay. Reminder that we are indeed commenting on multiplayer only game, thing we want to last.
I preferred if people wouldnt bring up these realistic war games (unless its gameplay wise) because they are nothing like NS, you should relie on your movement skill on alien and positioning / teamwork on marines instead of your favorite camping spot.
We should not ignore this completely some players get hooked up because of these things but whether if they stay more than month or two is really up to the gameplay. Reminder that we are indeed commenting on multiplayer only game, thing we want to last.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel it should be both though. Cosmetic for minor things, like explosions or say Onos movement when near. Non intrusive like you say. But it should effect aim and visual further more, if say you are getting stomped, stunned or gored by an Onos.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't mind what direction the game goes, or what the developers choose. I trust them! But every game I've ever played has "annoyances" that players don't like. Justifiable or just plain whining. Some people just get on with it and play the game. Others come to forums and complain about it. Good example for me is the Left 4 Dead series. I love it, but I still hate being bile'd on haha.
I think that in the future when the dev team actually get to adding these type of things, I think a good middle ground will be chosen. For now its all just ideas and brain farts.
I just worry that NS2 is going to be pretty much a visual overhaul of NS (or more-so that is what people are expecting).
Not only will the camera shake uncontrollably while the onos is stomping around, throwing your aim off something fierce.
You will also stumble while trying to walk possibly even fall over, then when you're trying to get back up skulks can press "use" to take you
both into a super awesome quick time event. You both press buttons that appear on the screen until one of you screws up then whoever missed a button press dies.
Bleeding/injuries have got to be in there too, Just imagine getting bitten in the leg by a skulk then only being able to limp around until you die and respawn from loss of blood. Also imagine watching a fade fly at you and slice your shooting arm off, leaving you to drop your gun and try to head butt it to death.
Would work pretty much the same for aliens, take a large amount of buckshot to a certain extremity and loose the use of it. (fades with no arms LOL)
And of course the most important feature, IRON SIGHTS AND RECOIL. You can't call a game an fps until it has Iron sights and recoil. They just add so much immersion that they cannot be passed up. Just imagine aiming down your sights at that skulk leaping towards you, pulling the trigger but OH NO! your bullets fly up into the ceiling. You close your eyes in fright as you know your death is imminent (button press for closing eyes?) but lol, your first bullet actually hit the skulk in the leg, he's now crawling towards you whining in pain.
the possibility's are ENDLESS!
That being said, MaLaKa is right in that there are many features that shouldn't be shouted down just because it doesn't "Add to the gameplay". If you want a perfectly technical gameplay only game, there are plenty of those already in existence and none of them sell.
What Camera shake hopefully will be is more of an aesthetic polish. Hopefully it doesn't bother your aim (thank god we're not doing headshots) but it adds that extra layer of awesome. And really, games do need that extra layer of awesome. As long as it doesn't interfere with gameplay or start reaching diminishing returns for the amount of work/money you spend, I'm moreorless OK with it.
The polish, like slight camera shake, really is what glues all the technical stuff behind the scenes together. The smooth motions, explosions, and sounds in CoD are what make the game so enjoyable. Sure most of the gameplay is pretty good below it all, but everything else just clicks into place as a whole immersive experience.
Now, doing stupid stuff that doesn't fit in the genre (iron sights), detract from gameplay (injury = slower movement), or dimishing returns (vaulting animations and falling off a railing when leaped) shouldn't be done. But Camera shake, in my opinion, can work if done subtly.
in a corridor with some marines, lifeforms, a stomping onos and screen shakes.
Bleeding and injuries must be under parental supervision, to lock this option I mean, and if not build in I guess
someone will make a plugin/patch for it.
But I agree with you TSS. Bullets should go where the crosshair is (even if it were to move).
Get a grip please people.
Well, it's a discussion board, what else do we have to talk about? :)
Some ideas are good, sarcastic or not.
This is something that greatly annoys me with BF:BC2, your bullets still go to the center of the screen, even if you're crosshair is wildly moving from getting shot or an explosion or something
I like the idea of screen shake as long as it's very subtle, i.e. just for effect and not at all disorienting.
Whats with all this nonsense about 'taking control away from players' ? If there is a huge alien stomping about then you wouldnt expect that to feel like a ballerina tiptoeing about would you.
Do dark areas of maps also annoy people because it limits their ability to see perfectly? The aliens must be annoying because they can hurt you and kill you which takes away control! please remove all the aliens from this game now!!!
It does, actually. Hence all the display hacks.
That being said, MaLaKa is right in that there are many features that shouldn't be shouted down just because it doesn't "Add to the gameplay". If you want a perfectly technical gameplay only game, there are plenty of those already in existence and none of them sell.
What Camera shake hopefully will be is more of an aesthetic polish. Hopefully it doesn't bother your aim (thank god we're not doing headshots) but it adds that extra layer of awesome. And really, games do need that extra layer of awesome. As long as it doesn't interfere with gameplay or start reaching diminishing returns for the amount of work/money you spend, I'm moreorless OK with it.
The polish, like slight camera shake, really is what glues all the technical stuff behind the scenes together. The smooth motions, explosions, and sounds in CoD are what make the game so enjoyable. Sure most of the gameplay is pretty good below it all, but everything else just clicks into place as a whole immersive experience.
Now, doing stupid stuff that doesn't fit in the genre (iron sights), detract from gameplay (injury = slower movement), or dimishing returns (vaulting animations and falling off a railing when leaped) shouldn't be done. But Camera shake, in my opinion, can work if done subtly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahah I couldn't even play that game for more than half an hour without getting bored, needed more action/tension and less stupid buttons for breathing and blinking.