NS2 Lerk Flight
remi
remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to try to make the new Lerk flight pretty much identical to NS1. Anyone have any thoughts about what should be changed? #f<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My suggestion:
Barrel roll with a/d.
What's yours?
My suggestion:
Barrel roll with a/d.
What's yours?
Comments
Barrel roll with a/d.
What's yours?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 for roll
My suggestion:
w=foward thurst
s=harsh brake (back flap) and once stopped hover flap (with flapping!)
mouse up/down = pitch
mouse left/right = yaw
a/d = roll (leans & strafe when hovering)
space = press/flap & hold/glide
*Also I'd love it if as lerk I could go up beyond Zenith angle and actually do a loop (free flight dynamics)
Anyone ever play Echelon? Really nice keyboard/mouse controls for hybrid fighters that could also hover (it's futuristic). Some of it could translate well for Lerk. The game is old but maybe you can still find the demo (around ~50MB)
EDIT: Might be too much to ask but just throwing ideas out there... having a button for contracting the wings (like a seagull diving) might add some strategy (aka smaller profile harder to shoot / less maneuverability / can't flap / gives a little speed burst and holds speed)
Downloading now, anyone else interested, here's the link i found:
<a href="http://download.cnet.com/Echelon-demo/3000-7551_4-10056214.html" target="_blank">http://download.cnet.com/Echelon-demo/3000...4-10056214.html</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Might be too much to ask but just throwing ideas out there... having a button for contracting the wings (like a seagull diving) might add some strategy (aka smaller profile harder to shoot / less maneuverability / can't flap / gives a little speed burst and holds speed)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you said it a little wrong there... pulling in the wings would mean no maneuverability, and basically projectile flight (no gliding, just physics take over... velocity drives you forward, gravity pulls you down)... I like the idea of flapping down a hallway gaining speed, angling up a little at the doorway, and tucking my wings in to catapult across a marine-occupied room making the majority of bullets miss me... just to spread my wings out right above them and descend upon my dinner. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1794871:date=Aug 17 2010, 11:00 PM:name=samurai_jeff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (samurai_jeff @ Aug 17 2010, 11:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794871"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The ability to press the space bar to control flaps was pretty unique i think. It meant you had more control over your speed. The problem with having a three dimensional no-clip 'walk' as some have mentioned is that it would most likely have a static speed for each direction (like swimming in the half life engine).
The latest flight model in NS1 allows you to- as i said- control that speed. You can glide by lowering the flap frequency or- in panicked situations- apply a quick burst by spamming flap.
What you could do, however, is keep the spacebar-to-flap mechanic (lower frequency allows gliding/hovering) and then also add strafing so that if you press strafe left and a few flaps you flap in that direction whilst keeping you view where you want it. The same with holding back (reverse of where you're aiming) + a few flaps could be more for hovering in a position/backing off slowly, or if you look downward could make you ascend)
BUT, when you hold forward and flap it returns to the current NS1 model where your max speed is achieved and you fly exactly where you aim, which includes flying up/downward (less dictated by flap frequency).
This gives the player the accuracy and flexibility of the current flight model while at the same time can be traded for the same flexibility and accuracy of aiming.
tl;dr Have A/D apply strafe through flaps, S apply slower backward movement/hover (depending on aiming vector) allowing precision for aiming your spikes, and W to apply the faster, more precise, NS1 flight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dropping into the canyons to get under radar, then jamming on the after burners and zig zagging through the circuitus canyon system trying to lose your tail all the while trying not to slam face first into a canyyon wall at a zillion miles an hour!
Or waiting for the last moment to pull a 90 degree swoop to dodge a missile!
Ah good times...
Anyway ya, lerk flight should be just like that :P
But seriously being able to do loops would truly rock, I could see some really nasty lerk pilots coming out of free flight dynamics ;) swoop in a loop and into a peerch on the ceiling after biting some guys head off!
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My suggestion, from a v.3.2 pov, enhance being able to look around while moving in another direction
I'm certainly intrigued with a free flight model. I'll have to check out that demo. I do think having lerks strafing at 90 degrees would not be ideal or balanced. Something like the BF1942 tail yaw combined with flapping and free flight would be pretty great IMO.
NS has always been about fast action and strategy. Flight needs to be simple enough that a good player can do it almost unconsciously while working to position themselves in the most effective place. Ideally it should be fast and maneuverable enough to make lerks mobile and tough to hit, but only to a certain degree. It's worth mentioning that lerks are going to be vent lurkers to a far greater degree than in NS1 due to the replacement of bite with spikes, and that spores will most likely remain the ability of the lerk that makes them the most strategically valuable.
That said, I do like the idea of allowing a lerk to rotate their view while gliding so they can aim spikes without changing their direction. I prefer the old high-risk high-reward of lerk bites, but if we have to make due with spikes, we better be able to aim them on the move without having to fly straight towards marines. If there isn't an option for this type of attack, then lerks will be pigeon holed into hiding around corners to use spores when playing against highly skilled marines.
You do know the lerk spikes where server specific plugin right?
Lerk should get double-jump for +movement then in order to fully accelerate.
Anyway, I agree with PILL.
Lerks should be able to aim without affecting their movement direction, if you hold a key.
Also I'd like to see Lerks being able to stick to ceilings.
So something like this:
jump = flap
holding jump = glide
holding crouch = glide and aim not affecting direction
holding walk = stick to ceiling
+movement = double-flap
Not sure what key layout is the best for the whole rotating view while gliding thing though..
<a href="http://download.cnet.com/Echelon-demo/3000-7551_4-10056214.html" target="_blank">http://download.cnet.com/Echelon-demo/3000...4-10056214.html</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm. Demo didn't work on Win 7. Errored out while loading a map with "error creating game scene".
This would create a trade-off between time aiming at a target vs flight speed and exposure. I think a lerk that can't do effective strafing runs on targets will be very limited to sniping and harassment.
+1 for aiming while gliding without changing direction.
The other things I'd like is lerks being able to lift gorges, lerks being able to clean the teeth of skulks like you see birds do to crocodiles, and 4 lerks working together should be able to lift an Onos. Ok just ignore the last 2 ideas :P
Lerk should get double-jump for +movement then in order to fully accelerate.
Anyway, I agree with PILL.
Lerks should be able to aim without affecting their movement direction, if you hold a key.
Also I'd like to see Lerks being able to stick to ceilings.
So something like this:
jump = flap
holding jump = glide
holding crouch = glide and aim not affecting direction
holding walk = stick to ceiling
+movement = double-flap
Not sure what key layout is the best for the whole rotating view while gliding thing though..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if the +movement stuff is necessary but I do like the idea of holding a button down to get a limited free look view for shooting while still moving in your original direction. If you combined this with the ability to bank left and right using the strafe buttons I could see it being cool to circle marines while firing spikes. The main reason this style appeals to me is that we can retain the original flight from NS1 that so many players are familiar with, but also add the depth of a shooting on the move style of gameplay with the press of a button.
Ok just ignore the last 2 ideas :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What to you mean those are the best ideas I have herd yet. Hell I would pay 20 more dollars for the teeth cleaning thing.
+1
Tap space-bar: Glide mode activated, adds momentum in direction depending on what key is held as follows:
w: momentum is 20 degrees above current mouselook.
s: momentum is 20 degrees below current mouselook.
a: momentum is 10 degrees left of current mouselook.
d: momentum is 10 degrees right of current mouselook.
no key held: momentum is in exact direction of mouselook.
*degrees and amount of momentum applied will need to be modified in testing.
Holding space: maintains glide mode. Mouselook has no effect on movement. Direction changes during glide as follows:
w: direction adjusts over current direction, full loop possible.
s: direction adjusts blow current direction, full loop possible.
a: change in direction to right begins to increase as long as a is held, with view banking as magnitude of change increases, at max, view is 90 degrees. Releasing a begins reduction of change in direction, with view reversing until level/and direction is no longer changing.
d: as above, but to left.
Going from a to d or vice versa means the magnitude increase in direction pressed is added to the normal reduction in increase from the direction released.
In addition, gravity works, downward momentum is continually increased, though at a slower rate then w/o glidemode (aka falling)
Releasing space: glidemode maintained for a moment.. long enough to allow the space-bar to be pressed again without losing velocity. After that, gravity takes over, character falls in parabolic/physX defined arc
Other natural physics should apply: moving in a donward direction increases momentum in that direction, moving up decreases it, etc.
Essentially this means no hovering -- whether with or without flapping, and regardless of scorpian presence.. Lerks are not hummingbirds.
However, it does allow you to fly straight up, and then slowly parachute down.
The main reason for this is that a glide-look would force the player to have a straight flight path during any aiming. I'd much rather allow for a limited amount of horizontal view change (about 30 degrees or so) when A or D is held. This way you can aim off to one side while still changing your vector/heading. This would allow a player to do a pseudo flying strafe-like movement while aiming at a target. This is very similar to the FPS staple of circle-strafing a target, just with less than 90 degree strafing and while flying.
This would enable a lerk to use S-turns to close in on a marine while firing barrages of spikes at the apexes of those turns. The lerk is able to target the marine without having to fly straight. This is preferable to me over a glide-look that locks your direction/heading into a straight flight-path.
I'm very willing to try either method, but I like the smooth curves of flight using a limited strafe-like control.
The main reason for this is that a glide-look would force the player to have a straight flight path during any aiming. I'd much rather allow for a limited amount of horizontal view change (about 30 degrees or so) when A or D is held. This way you can aim off to one side while still changing your vector/heading. This would allow a player to do a pseudo flying strafe-like movement while aiming at a target. This is very similar to the FPS staple of circle-strafing a target, just with less than 90 degree strafing and while flying.
This would enable a lerk to use S-turns to close in on a marine while firing barrages of spikes at the apexes of those turns. The lerk is able to target the marine without having to fly straight. This is preferable to me over a glide-look that locks your direction/heading into a straight flight-path.
I'm very willing to try either method, but I like the smooth curves of flight using a limited strafe-like control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggested this. :) Probably some other people did as well.
<b>The main reason for this is that a glide-look would force the player to have a straight flight path during any aiming. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the maps continue to be small corridors this will provide very troublesome and more often than not (correcting for both flight and timing) for aiming the spikes on an enemy will probably result into smacking into a wall and getting shot as you try to recover and get a new heading.
Treat like how a flying object in space would with pitch and yaw - barrel rolls would be interesting also but when gliding pitch and yaw would be preferable. This would be so as a lerk you would go in lay down some quick spikes/spores and circle on out go through a few rooms and come back to do it again.
Aiming to shoot and having a secure flying path is a very hard thing to do at the same time for one person. That is why you rarely(if never at all) have seen a fighter jet that has multidirectional aiming without a second person in the plane to properly target and use.
This would be very similar to how when you push A or D as a marine you move in a direction 90 degrees off from your x-hair. Due to it being flight, a more limited strafe of somewhere about 45-30 degrees would seem pretty natural. That way you could sort do a circle-strafe like attack with rapid-fire spikes as a lerk.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this does sound like the awesomely bad plane control from BF1942. Where if you wanted to look around you had to enable mouselook, while being unable to control your plane... It works, but in the end it gives you a very predictable straight flightpath...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I want to avoid. It removes control of flight from the mouse.
S=Slow Forward speed(minor brake)
sounds simple