Asymmetry is good but only up to a point IMO... look guys, we're talking more about a way to _coordinate_ tactics than replace tactics right ? Coordination does not imply that the same tactics have to be used by both teams, only that more agents are likely to execute said tactics in unison.
The aliens might employ a _totally different strategy_ to the marines to win but ultimately all strategies must be executed correctly ... the coms role IMO is to be the _glue_ that makes the overall strategy work. No glue and there's more chance things fall apart.
NS2 I presume wants mass-market appeal right ?
It's not easy _ for new people especially _ to walk into a game where everyone on their team is running around like headless chickens all doing their own thing... of course there's no way to stop this completely but the Alien Com sounds like it could at least help reduce the risk of this.
If NS2 is to reach the masses IMO an alien Com is not only necesary but vital.
<!--quoteo(post=1787843:date=Jul 28 2010, 06:47 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jul 28 2010, 06:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787843"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you referring to how in NS1, the alien gameplay was predominately ramboing-fades and gorges building oc/defense-chamber forts, and only because the aliens were so overpowered that the efforts of 4 or so good aliens could beat a marine team of 15 in practically every ###### game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
!Yes, because improved Alien command and control, intelligent gathering and processing, and freeing of gorge to play combat medic has me shaking in my boots over the possible OP-niss of a class not yet implemented!
I am not at all concerned that the AC will lead to over or under powered aliens or how the AC will affect class roles. I am worried about how it will affect game feel and over all team play stile, and even more important to me how it will affect the intelligence game.
Having a commander watching your back gathering intel was one of the main differences between A and M play in NS1 to lose that difference is one very large step toward race symmetry. One I would rather not see happen.
As for the coming “YOU JUST WANT NS1 WITH BETTER GRAPHIC†retort. I say No, I just really really don’t want to play “Savage in Space!!!!!â€
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.) Drifters / MACs - Wow is it going to be hard to cap RT in blind areas of the map or sneak them past the other team. THIS is one of the key features that made NS1 SO VERY eventful! Sneak placing a hive or going gorge to quick drop a RT could usually change the swing of the game within minutes. Frankly, this is why I loved NS1 so much, is for the ability of the team to be dynamic, sneaky, and inconsistent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is how I feel about AC, Floaters and Gorges right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1788011:date=Jul 28 2010, 04:20 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Jul 28 2010, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is how I feel about AC, Floaters and Gorges right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The same applies to marines not being able to build as well, it only hinders.
<!--quoteo(post=1787997:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:12 PM:name=FilthyLarry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FilthyLarry @ Jul 28 2010, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787997"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Asymmetry is good but only up to a point IMO... look guys, we're talking more about a way to _coordinate_ tactics than replace tactics right ? Coordination does not imply that the same tactics have to be used by both teams, only that more agents are likely to execute said tactics in unison.
The aliens might employ a _totally different strategy_ to the marines to win but ultimately all strategies must be executed correctly ... the coms role IMO is to be the _glue_ that makes the overall strategy work. No glue and there's more chance things fall apart.
NS2 I presume wants mass-market appeal right ?
It's not easy _ for new people especially _ to walk into a game where everyone on their team is running around like headless chickens all doing their own thing... of course there's no way to stop this completely but the Alien Com sounds like it could at least help reduce the risk of this.
If NS2 is to reach the masses IMO an alien Com is not only necesary but vital.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To say that team cohesion is needed for mass market appeal is insanely wrong. The most mass market friendly FPS I can think of is TF2. On about 8 out of 10 servers the only semblance of team cohesion is that 85% of each team is moving in the same general direction at any one time.
Even I am 100 percent wrong about that the M already got the team cohesion thing covered. Those who want to be a grunt in team following a commander can go play M. All forcing that play style into A will do is give people who don’t want that play experience nowhere to go.
I believe UWE original stated that they were adding the AC because the unified resourcing model was simpler to balance. I believe there must be a way to achieve this balance with far less impact to the A play style. I am in fact sure that the NS community itself has a multitude of answers to this issue. It was certainly able to create solutions to the Alien resource distribution issues that plagued the earlier NS1 releases.
From what i´ve seen about the alien commander in the alpha.. I must say that i seems pretty intresting and i think it fits in the game quit well. What i like feels really more like a rts game to play commander ( on alien and rien side).
Alien Commander is needed to ensure balance between races regardless of number of players on the server. A more balanced game will be better for both pub and competitive play.
It's a good thing NS2 has an alien commander and if you disagree you don't know what you're talking about.
After seeing the upgrade abilities of the chambers and how alien commanding worked, I'm optimistic about what it can bring to the game.
One thing I don't like though is the fact that aliens and marines both have 3 weapons and armor upgrades. That aspect seems too symetrical and will probably make it standard practice both teams' commanders to keep up with each other on those upgrades, resulting in uninteresting game progress. Hopefully following other tech paths is just as viable for more varied game. It is pretty essential that this happens because if one team has a tech path that is much better than the other, then the other is also forced into following the counter for that. While NS1 was still fun with the commander usually following the standard tech order, having two commanders could really make things varied and interesting in this aspect.
- Stop comparing everything to WoW it's not WoW and has nothing to do with WoW.
- For people who MUST use WoW, here's another MMO for you WAR - which had huge issues due to them trying to keep every class different instead of mirroring them.
Personally I just hope they give aliens/marines more interaction as atm it seems like comms give out orders and build almost everything while aliens run around doing deathmatch stuff or are stuck babysitting the builders, some kind of assist would be nice where players can speedup building as a reward for teamwork/protecting builders.
<!--quoteo(post=1787658:date=Jul 28 2010, 02:02 PM:name=echs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (echs @ Jul 28 2010, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Chris0132 stating the obvious there. But the Drifters now build what Gorges could build in NS1, I'm not sure what they will allow the Gorge to build (apart from Hydras) in future updates, but I sure preferred the role of the Gorge in NS1, NS2 makes its role smaller it seems. The Aliens simply didn't need a commander, the Gorge more than filled that role for the Aliens and it's worked very well even to this day, now in games, you're gonna need at least two decent commanders in the server, with most games in NS1, getting one decent commander was a stroke of luck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea I kind of agree with this, but I'm going to wait and see how this actually works out and what other 'powers' they might give the gorge.
<!--quoteo(post=1788086:date=Jul 28 2010, 04:50 PM:name=ChaosInc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChaosInc @ Jul 28 2010, 04:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To say that team cohesion is needed for mass market appeal is insanely wrong. The most mass market friendly FPS I can think of is TF2. On about 8 out of 10 servers the only semblance of team cohesion is that 85% of each team is moving in the same general direction at any one time.
Even I am 100 percent wrong about that the M already got the team cohesion thing covered. Those who want to be a grunt in team following a commander can go play M. All forcing that play style into A will do is give people who don’t want that play experience nowhere to go.
I believe UWE original stated that they were adding the AC because the unified resourcing model was simpler to balance. I believe there must be a way to achieve this balance with far less impact to the A play style. I am in fact sure that the NS community itself has a multitude of answers to this issue. It was certainly able to create solutions to the Alien resource distribution issues that plagued the earlier NS1 releases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but I think you've misunderstood my point; I'm _not_stating cohesion is necessary in _all_ games for mass market appeal but in NS2 it will be. In TF2 its ok that both teams run around like headless chickens... the key is _both_ teams do. In NS1 you have one team that is actively encouraged to work together by an in-game mechanic namely the Commander. This is IMO too much of an imbalance that more often than not results in unsatisfying games as not only do you have one team by design having a grand-architect in terms of strategy but you have the other team with the - again by design - ability to have "too many chiefs and too few indians".
I think there's still room for Aliens to have a little more leeway to be "lone wolf" types even with a Commander in place versus the marines... we'll have to see how it pans out. But a few more limitations on "lone wolf" style of play is IMO a good thing... after all there is TF2 if all a person wants to do is acheive body-count now isn't there ?
I made this forum account just for this but did OP ever think about MAYBE this could be a type of Game Mode like co and ns
maybe we could have 3 game mods like this + nsc - Natural Selection Classic just like ns1 is now just moved over + ns2 - what there currently testing and keep it for a new fresh look on NS + co - for those small games for lans etc.
Please anyoen that is ###### this is <u><b>ALPHA</b></u> there's still alot of work to be done.. I Trust Max and Flayra know what there doing ###### settle down and stop coming to conclusions
I jumped in the alien comm last night. And I quite enjoyed the setup and believe it will improve games.
Obviously theres virtually nothing you can do (bar upgrading a hive, building a hive and building res nodes).
But one thing I would like to see is Marines still being able to build structures as well as bots AND Gorges able to build structures placed by the commander as well as the drones. This would give everything even more functionality. So a team who ignore the comm and dont build ###### he can use bots to do it, while a good team can perhaps lead more towards players. And vice Versa for aliens and the gorge.
To be honest though I see this as something not too difficult to change and something that could well be added at a later date. If this was added I think many would agree it would retain some of the better aspects of NS1 while offerring some new and improved ideas from NS2.
Don't underestimate the gorge as lifeform in first or second row. Having a mobile DC is great for teamplay, even the best lerk/fade will have problems to fight pressuring without a smart gorge arround the corner. 4 skulks and a gorge attacking are a way bigger threat than 5 skulks. Removing the task of building RT's gives the gorge more freedom in his play; tank-mode more confidence.
The problem we are facing today playing alien on ns1 public games is that lots of players aren't really aware of the res-system. Then you have players who go gorge and use voice a lot to "command" the mentally challenged skulks. Alien commander is already happening. With ns2 there is a chance to give them better overview and ability to maintain the res-flow. The harvester will be - like the RT in ns1 - a main target for marines, and you need to get them up again quick once the team has secured the nozzle again. In ns1 you need at least 25 res to get a 15 res structure (worst case). This is horrible for the balance and turns the game too fast arround.
When I read about the alien commander and weld-bots, nanogrid and stuff the first time (it was a call to the community to gather ideas for new commander abilities) I got the impression that the commanders will fight against each other detached from what the other players do combat-styled on the field. I can not say for sure that I am free of that now, I think it will depend on how far they will have access to the environment and how the dynamic infestation and nanogrid will work (passive bonus for defenders or negative effect on enemy intruders).
One thing I have been reminded of how I felt NS games were meant to be played was that I saw the marines job was to clear their building/ship etc from the alien infestation which was threatening them. Where's the aliens were to just do that try and take over the map and own it or at least hold the marines off. In other words NS games were always meant for the marines to win every time and it was the aliens job to try and either hold this off as best they could or to take the win against the odds. In general the game was then balanced in that aliens were slightly stronger solo than marines to suit the semi individual play style of the aliens. Marines where then a lot stronger as a group and so required the teamwork and leadership of the commander. I am not saying that marines always won which is not true just I think that is how the game is focused at least in NS1.
So from this perspective having a hive mind is somewhat irrelevant but <u>may</u> give the aliens more chance of winning if this is their aim to shift the perspective from marines should always win to both teams should win ~50%.
<!--quoteo(post=1788358:date=Jul 29 2010, 07:42 AM:name=Brainbeat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brainbeat @ Jul 29 2010, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing I have been reminded of how I felt NS games were meant to be played was that I saw the marines job was to clear their building/ship etc from the alien infestation which was threatening them. Where's the aliens were to just do that try and take over the map and own it or at least hold the marines off. In other words NS games were always meant for the marines to win every time and it was the aliens job to try and either hold this off as best they could or to take the win against the odds. In general the game was then balanced in that aliens were slightly stronger solo than marines to suit the semi individual play style of the aliens. Marines where then a lot stronger as a group and so required the teamwork and leadership of the commander. I am not saying that marines always won which is not true just I think that is how the game is focused at least in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was exactly the issue with Ns1. If the marine Commander wasn't good, the Aliens won. If he was good (In a way, that his team actually listend to his orders) then the Marines won. This is as far away from balance as you can get. The AC enforces more Teamwork to the alien team, which is damn important. But even though he does that, the dynamic is still WAY different. An AC can jump out at any given time without doing any harm to his team, an MC should not. This does sound simple, but if you think at least a bit about it, you will see, that it makes a lot of difference. The Marine team will very likely still be more organized then the Alien Team, the AC is just in place to allow the Alien team to win against a good team.
If you (pointed at everyone) don't like the kind of teamwork Marine teams need, then the Aliens are certainly the right faction to play. If you don't want any teamwork on the alien side (because that is what <b>will</b> happen without an AC in more then half of the games) this is the wrong game for you.
<!--quoteo(post=1788379:date=Jul 29 2010, 07:03 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Jul 29 2010, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason NS is what it is today is because the NS team did what other developer wouldn't do in fear of it being to complicated/unbalanced etc.
The more you dumb down NS and make it like other games the more it looses it's appeal and just becomes another team based shooter..
NS key selling attribute is the stark difference of the teams and it's RTS nature...
Stay true to what bought you success no point re designing things for the sake of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I have to agree. No need for gimmicks and change for the sake of change. Tweak gameplay and mechanics slightly sure, but if you deviate too far away, the appeal diminishes. Most HL1 mods were just ported straight over with only a few things altered, could you imagine the uproar if they made a massive change with CS? :D
Saying that, it's still impossible to test it out these aspects properly so we have to wait and see. For now, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, since they are the creators of NS1. I still have hope they won't try appeal to a "maximum" audience and streamline this game like the other 1000+ FPS that plague gaming. After all that's what set NS1 a part from the rest of the pack.
The argument about 4 skulks and 1 gorge being highly effective is very true. Except, when the skulks are off attacking the Gorges would usually always start putting DC and OF towers down. There was a reason for this... the skulks usually died. In order to hold the ground while the skulks re-spawned the Gorge would need the DC tower to keep him alive under fire. Give the Alien commander the Sensor towers and Offence towers. But let Gorges build DC towers!. :(
We'll have to see how things work out. I've not tried playing again since getting the connection issues. Hopefully its sorted by the weekend and we can judge how much of a difference the changes to the Gorge will make; I suspect it'll change the alien game-play drastically.
<!--quoteo(post=1788420:date=Jul 29 2010, 10:56 AM:name=crakinshot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crakinshot @ Jul 29 2010, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The argument about 4 skulks and 1 gorge being highly effective is very true. Except, when the skulks are off attacking the Gorges would usually always start putting DC and OF towers down. There was a reason for this... the skulks usually died. In order to hold the ground while the skulks re-spawned the Gorge would need the DC tower to keep him alive under fire. Give the Alien commander the Sensor towers and Offence towers. But let Gorges build DC towers!. :(
We'll have to see how things work out. I've not tried playing again since getting the connection issues. Hopefully its sorted by the weekend and we can judge how much of a difference the changes to the Gorge will make; I suspect it'll change the alien game-play drastically.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pointless, the gorge can build OCs and heal anyone who gets in range anyway he has no need to be able to build DC's.
<!--QuoteBegin-crackinshot @ Jul 29 2010+ 10:56 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crackinshot @ Jul 29 2010 @ 10:56 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The argument about 4 skulks and 1 gorge being highly effective is very true. Except, when the skulks are off attacking the Gorges would usually always start putting DC and OF towers down. There was a reason for this... the skulks usually died. In order to hold the ground while the skulks re-spawned the Gorge would need the DC tower to keep him alive under fire. Give the Alien commander the Sensor towers and Offence towers. But let Gorges build DC towers!. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
erm... the current plan is that gorges can drop hydras and something that is basically a DC (can't recall the name). Check the wiki and dev blog posts.
The only thing that threaten ns2 survival right now is the awful performance, playing at 15 fps is frustrating and many people might not to buy the game if they hear NS2 runs worse than Crysis.
<!--quoteo(post=1788451:date=Jul 29 2010, 06:03 AM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Jul 29 2010, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing that threaten ns2 survival right now is the awful performance, playing at 15 fps is frustrating and many people might not to buy the game if they hear NS2 runs worse than Crysis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until they hear that it is in alpha and since 99% of people understand that.. it won't be a issue.
At least I thought it was 99%.. but after seeing this board my assumption seems to be way off.
<!--quoteo(post=1788461:date=Jul 29 2010, 01:40 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Jul 29 2010, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788461"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Until they hear that it is in alpha and since 99% of people understand that.. it won't be a issue.
At least I thought it was 99%.. but after seeing this board my assumption seems to be way off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at all the post talking about performance, 99% of people don't known what an alpha or beta are, they only see that this game don't run properly at this moment.
eh. "Alien Commander threatens NS2 Survival". nah. I'll still play (and i'm sure many other will too) regardless of the existence of the AC.
Personally, i like the AC. I understand the desire for a unique experience for each team - but i think it will still be there. Gorges still have several things to drop. I'm fairly certain individual aliens will still have choices in evolution that they can make on their own. Besides, most people will ignore the commander anyway.
Really, I think the AC is an important addition. NS was toted as being an inventive FPS-RTS hybrid, and it was <i><b>but only for one team</b></i>. The aliens were essentially missing that component of the game. sure, there were resources and gorges dropped buildings (well, good gorges did, anyway), but a key component of RTS is the singular commander who makes tactical decisions, works towards them, and directs his units (although in this case it's more like "gives his units suggestions"). Plus, I think the game will have a whole new depth once nano-grid and dynamic infestation get in. I think those will also help distinguish the two commander roles and possibly help solidify the differences in the teams.
I think that, 1). it is a disgusting exaggeration to suggest that the game's "survival" is threatened by this design change, basically trolling, and 2). it is mainly an emotional response; no one possesses the experience necessary to truly and fairly judge the mechanical alterations. It's just blind hysteria fueled by wild speculation.
Which, it seems, is a native feature of all internet communities. Just look at how crazy the SC2 fans were when it was announced (they thought the entire game would be ruined by interface improvements!).
Comments
The aliens might employ a _totally different strategy_ to the marines to win but ultimately all strategies must be executed correctly ... the coms role IMO is to be the _glue_ that makes the overall strategy work. No glue and there's more chance things fall apart.
NS2 I presume wants mass-market appeal right ?
It's not easy _ for new people especially _ to walk into a game where everyone on their team is running around like headless chickens all doing their own thing... of course there's no way to stop this completely but the Alien Com sounds like it could at least help reduce the risk of this.
If NS2 is to reach the masses IMO an alien Com is not only necesary but vital.
!Yes, because improved Alien command and control, intelligent gathering and processing, and freeing of gorge to play combat medic has me shaking in my boots over the possible OP-niss of a class not yet implemented!
I am not at all concerned that the AC will lead to over or under powered aliens or how the AC will affect class roles. I am worried about how it will affect game feel and over all team play stile, and even more important to me how it will affect the intelligence game.
Having a commander watching your back gathering intel was one of the main differences between A and M play in NS1 to lose that difference is one very large step toward race symmetry. One I would rather not see happen.
As for the coming “YOU JUST WANT NS1 WITH BETTER GRAPHIC†retort. I say No, I just really really don’t want to play “Savage in Space!!!!!â€
This is how I feel about AC, Floaters and Gorges right now.
The same applies to marines not being able to build as well, it only hinders.
The aliens might employ a _totally different strategy_ to the marines to win but ultimately all strategies must be executed correctly ... the coms role IMO is to be the _glue_ that makes the overall strategy work. No glue and there's more chance things fall apart.
NS2 I presume wants mass-market appeal right ?
It's not easy _ for new people especially _ to walk into a game where everyone on their team is running around like headless chickens all doing their own thing... of course there's no way to stop this completely but the Alien Com sounds like it could at least help reduce the risk of this.
If NS2 is to reach the masses IMO an alien Com is not only necesary but vital.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To say that team cohesion is needed for mass market appeal is insanely wrong. The most mass market friendly FPS I can think of is TF2. On about 8 out of 10 servers the only semblance of team cohesion is that 85% of each team is moving in the same general direction at any one time.
Even I am 100 percent wrong about that the M already got the team cohesion thing covered. Those who want to be a grunt in team following a commander can go play M. All forcing that play style into A will do is give people who don’t want that play experience nowhere to go.
I believe UWE original stated that they were adding the AC because the unified resourcing model was simpler to balance. I believe there must be a way to achieve this balance with far less impact to the A play style. I am in fact sure that the NS community itself has a multitude of answers to this issue. It was certainly able to create solutions to the Alien resource distribution issues that plagued the earlier NS1 releases.
I must say that i seems pretty intresting and i think it fits in the game quit well.
What i like feels really more like a rts game to play commander ( on alien and rien side).
+1 for alien commander.
It's a good thing NS2 has an alien commander and if you disagree you don't know what you're talking about.
One thing I don't like though is the fact that aliens and marines both have 3 weapons and armor upgrades. That aspect seems too symetrical and will probably make it standard practice both teams' commanders to keep up with each other on those upgrades, resulting in uninteresting game progress. Hopefully following other tech paths is just as viable for more varied game. It is pretty essential that this happens because if one team has a tech path that is much better than the other, then the other is also forced into following the counter for that. While NS1 was still fun with the commander usually following the standard tech order, having two commanders could really make things varied and interesting in this aspect.
Anyway since people are talking about this now;
- Wait until you play it then judge.
- Stop comparing everything to WoW it's not WoW and has nothing to do with WoW.
- For people who MUST use WoW, here's another MMO for you WAR - which had huge issues due to them trying to keep every class different instead of mirroring them.
Personally I just hope they give aliens/marines more interaction as atm it seems like comms give out orders and build almost everything while aliens run around doing deathmatch stuff or are stuck babysitting the builders, some kind of assist would be nice where players can speedup building as a reward for teamwork/protecting builders.
Yea I kind of agree with this, but I'm going to wait and see how this actually works out and what other 'powers' they might give the gorge.
Even I am 100 percent wrong about that the M already got the team cohesion thing covered. Those who want to be a grunt in team following a commander can go play M. All forcing that play style into A will do is give people who don’t want that play experience nowhere to go.
I believe UWE original stated that they were adding the AC because the unified resourcing model was simpler to balance. I believe there must be a way to achieve this balance with far less impact to the A play style. I am in fact sure that the NS community itself has a multitude of answers to this issue. It was certainly able to create solutions to the Alien resource distribution issues that plagued the earlier NS1 releases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but I think you've misunderstood my point; I'm _not_stating cohesion is necessary in _all_ games for mass market appeal but in NS2 it will be. In TF2 its ok that both teams run around like headless chickens... the key is _both_ teams do. In NS1 you have one team that is actively encouraged to work together by an in-game mechanic namely the Commander. This is IMO too much of an imbalance that more often than not results in unsatisfying games as not only do you have one team by design having a grand-architect in terms of strategy but you have the other team with the - again by design - ability to have "too many chiefs and too few indians".
I think there's still room for Aliens to have a little more leeway to be "lone wolf" types even with a Commander in place versus the marines... we'll have to see how it pans out. But a few more limitations on "lone wolf" style of play is IMO a good thing... after all there is TF2 if all a person wants to do is acheive body-count now isn't there ?
maybe we could have 3 game mods like this
+ nsc - Natural Selection Classic just like ns1 is now just moved over
+ ns2 - what there currently testing and keep it for a new fresh look on NS
+ co - for those small games for lans etc.
Please anyoen that is ###### this is <u><b>ALPHA</b></u> there's still alot of work to be done.. I Trust Max and Flayra know what there doing ###### settle down and stop coming to conclusions
And I quite enjoyed the setup and believe it will improve games.
Obviously theres virtually nothing you can do (bar upgrading a hive, building a hive and building res nodes).
But one thing I would like to see is Marines still being able to build structures as well as bots AND Gorges able to build structures placed by the commander as well as the drones. This would give everything even more functionality. So a team who ignore the comm and dont build ###### he can use bots to do it, while a good team can perhaps lead more towards players. And vice Versa for aliens and the gorge.
To be honest though I see this as something not too difficult to change and something that could well be added at a later date. If this was added I think many would agree it would retain some of the better aspects of NS1 while offerring some new and improved ideas from NS2.
4 skulks and a gorge attacking are a way bigger threat than 5 skulks. Removing the task of building RT's gives the gorge more freedom in his play; tank-mode more confidence.
The problem we are facing today playing alien on ns1 public games is that lots of players aren't really aware of the res-system. Then you have players who go gorge and use voice a lot to "command" the mentally challenged skulks. Alien commander is already happening.
With ns2 there is a chance to give them better overview and ability to maintain the res-flow.
The harvester will be - like the RT in ns1 - a main target for marines, and you need to get them up again quick once the team has secured the nozzle again.
In ns1 you need at least 25 res to get a 15 res structure (worst case). This is horrible for the balance and turns the game too fast arround.
When I read about the alien commander and weld-bots, nanogrid and stuff the first time (it was a call to the community to gather ideas for new commander abilities) I got the impression that the commanders will fight against each other detached from what the other players do combat-styled on the field.
I can not say for sure that I am free of that now, I think it will depend on how far they will have access to the environment and how the dynamic infestation and nanogrid will work (passive bonus for defenders or negative effect on enemy intruders).
So from this perspective having a hive mind is somewhat irrelevant but <u>may</u> give the aliens more chance of winning if this is their aim to shift the perspective from marines should always win to both teams should win ~50%.
This was exactly the issue with Ns1.
If the marine Commander wasn't good, the Aliens won.
If he was good (In a way, that his team actually listend to his orders) then the Marines won.
This is as far away from balance as you can get.
The AC enforces more Teamwork to the alien team, which is damn important. But even though he does that, the dynamic is still WAY different.
An AC can jump out at any given time without doing any harm to his team, an MC should not. This does sound simple, but if you think at least a bit about it, you will see, that it makes a lot of difference. The Marine team will very likely still be more organized then the Alien Team, the AC is just in place to allow the Alien team to win against a good team.
If you (pointed at everyone) don't like the kind of teamwork Marine teams need, then the Aliens are certainly the right faction to play.
If you don't want any teamwork on the alien side (because that is what <b>will</b> happen without an AC in more then half of the games) this is the wrong game for you.
The more you dumb down NS and make it like other games the more it looses it's appeal and just becomes another team based shooter..
NS key selling attribute is the stark difference of the teams and it's RTS nature...
Stay true to what bought you success no point re designing things for the sake of it.
The more you dumb down NS and make it like other games the more it looses it's appeal and just becomes another team based shooter..
NS key selling attribute is the stark difference of the teams and it's RTS nature...
Stay true to what bought you success no point re designing things for the sake of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I have to agree. No need for gimmicks and change for the sake of change. Tweak gameplay and mechanics slightly sure, but if you deviate too far away, the appeal diminishes. Most HL1 mods were just ported straight over with only a few things altered, could you imagine the uproar if they made a massive change with CS? :D
Saying that, it's still impossible to test it out these aspects properly so we have to wait and see. For now, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, since they are the creators of NS1. I still have hope they won't try appeal to a "maximum" audience and streamline this game like the other 1000+ FPS that plague gaming. After all that's what set NS1 a part from the rest of the pack.
We'll have to see how things work out. I've not tried playing again since getting the connection issues. Hopefully its sorted by the weekend and we can judge how much of a difference the changes to the Gorge will make; I suspect it'll change the alien game-play drastically.
We'll have to see how things work out. I've not tried playing again since getting the connection issues. Hopefully its sorted by the weekend and we can judge how much of a difference the changes to the Gorge will make; I suspect it'll change the alien game-play drastically.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pointless, the gorge can build OCs and heal anyone who gets in range anyway he has no need to be able to build DC's.
erm... the current plan is that gorges can drop hydras and something that is basically a DC (can't recall the name). Check the wiki and dev blog posts.
Until they hear that it is in alpha and since 99% of people understand that.. it won't be a issue.
At least I thought it was 99%.. but after seeing this board my assumption seems to be way off.
At least I thought it was 99%.. but after seeing this board my assumption seems to be way off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at all the post talking about performance, 99% of people don't known what an alpha or beta are, they only see that this game don't run properly at this moment.
lmao, well done.
Personally, i like the AC. I understand the desire for a unique experience for each team - but i think it will still be there. Gorges still have several things to drop. I'm fairly certain individual aliens will still have choices in evolution that they can make on their own. Besides, most people will ignore the commander anyway.
Really, I think the AC is an important addition. NS was toted as being an inventive FPS-RTS hybrid, and it was <i><b>but only for one team</b></i>. The aliens were essentially missing that component of the game. sure, there were resources and gorges dropped buildings (well, good gorges did, anyway), but a key component of RTS is the singular commander who makes tactical decisions, works towards them, and directs his units (although in this case it's more like "gives his units suggestions"). Plus, I think the game will have a whole new depth once nano-grid and dynamic infestation get in. I think those will also help distinguish the two commander roles and possibly help solidify the differences in the teams.
Which, it seems, is a native feature of all internet communities. Just look at how crazy the SC2 fans were when it was announced (they thought the entire game would be ruined by interface improvements!).