<!--quoteo(post=1787658:date=Jul 28 2010, 02:02 PM:name=echs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (echs @ Jul 28 2010, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Chris0132 stating the obvious there. But the Drifters now build what Gorges could build in NS1, I'm not sure what they will allow the Gorge to build (apart from Hydras) in future updates, but I sure preferred the role of the Gorge in NS1, NS2 makes its role smaller it seems. The Aliens simply didn't need a commander, the Gorge more than filled that role for the Aliens and it's worked very well even to this day, now in games, you're gonna need at least two decent commanders in the server, with most games in NS1, getting one decent commander was a stroke of luck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that's the point of multiple commanders, you don't need <i>a</i> commander, because people can hop in and do what they need doing at that time, rather than bugging the comm for something you can just hop into the nearest hive and drop an RT.
I think you took a wrong turn somewhere, mayer. This is the <i>Alien Commander threatens NS2 Survival</i> topic. That's why I mentioned Skulks and the same is true for all the other Alien classes. The only one noticing a difference is the Gorge. Everyone else couldn't care less if RT's are dropped by Gorges or commander controlled drifters.
And Gorges can still spit, heal and drop the new OCs. They also got the new defensive crouch and belly slide. The perfect battle support class. If you think that's lacking strategic impact have you considered playing the alien commander yourself?
Btw the alien commander is absolutely NOT a carbon copy of the marine commander. He doesn't need to babysit his troops and doesn't need to drop ammo and medpacks. And the drifters work a little differently from the build bots.
<!--quoteo(post=1787659:date=Jul 28 2010, 03:02 PM:name=crakinshot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crakinshot @ Jul 28 2010, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to voice my agreement; I think the alien commander will ruin the function of the Gorges.
I almost always play as aliens in NS1 and I usually always play as a Gorge because I love building stuff and holding corridors. My favourite tactic would be to build up my resources then go to a "dangerous" location which was strategically important (like a junction) then drop offence towers and a defence tower. The defence tower would keep me and the offence towers alive long enough for other aliens to notice I was under attack and come to help. It worked because you had the defence towers. It worked because you could effectively block a corridor with offence towers. I would play entire matches just as a Gorge. I fear with less to do they will be boring to play as and ultimately less people will chose to play as them... thus again ruining the gameplay for people who attack as aliens because they can't get defence towers up front.
I sincerely hope NS2 reverts back to how it was in NS1 for these two very important aspects (being able to build defence towers and the offence towers being big enough to block corridors, but still leave enough room for the marines to "crouch" over them).
If anything the only part of NS1 mechanics I would change for the aliens would be to allow them to transfer resources to other players... say every 10 seconds or so. The beauty of the aliens was/is that all the aliens seemed to be completely individual... BUT, resulted in very very good team playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So basically you want to be able to perform your tactics alone? Thats what I understand from most of you, that you prefer to play it solo style rather then seeing it revert into a similar teamplay as the marines.
I still don't see how the Gorge could be called useless, given the fact that we have only seen a glimpse of his abilities. His role changes, but not for the worse.
<!--quoteo(post=1787671:date=Jul 28 2010, 03:28 PM:name=Sempai.Hanz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sempai.Hanz @ Jul 28 2010, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the mechanic of Alien commander was fundamentally different. I think more people would get on board...
If there was a way that it seemed to be linked to hive mind - you can only see parts of the map where players are - and, I don't know, you could slip into first person view with the little builders.
Perhaps, give the gorges back some of their building power? (defense towers) and make the Alien commander kind of like the big brother...the spirit of the aliens.. he/she can help with the offensive/defensive effort... building structures as well but CO-ORDINATING the alien forces..
If Alien commander was more of a co-ordinator and helper..that would be great.. but another Marine commander without the metal..hmm.. don't know..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one would play the commander, there is no point for him if he doesn't have anything to do, that the others can't. "Oh lets drop some resource towers, hm, my gorges already did. Never mind then." "maybe i could build something else?" gorge player:"idiot, stop wasting resources for this, we decide what needs to be build." "I could help them out strategic wise. wait, why does no one listen to my instructions?" "Alright this is stupid, im just sitting in the hive, not being able to do anything productive."
From what Ive seen so far I think taking away the basic building strutures from the gorge is a great Idea, that frees them up to be combat medics to there team and not flee from any rine they see while trying to place RTs. So the alien team should be able to fight together with gorge support all the time rather than that only happening when map had been dominated and rines confined to there base or a small section of the map.
I don't think it's impossible to maintain the delightful asymmetry present in the first game while keeping the alien commander.
I do think having an alien commander could positively add to the game in other areas.
I also think that making sure both these things happen will be tricky, but if anyone is up to the challenge it's Unknown Worlds.
...I also would like to see Drifters go out the window in favor of direct placement anywhere the dynamic infestation has reached. When combined with the gorge's ability to spread it manually, that allows for both autonomous or even gorge-free development if the alien team wants to have only one strategist, OR a gorge-heavy reactive land-grab like I used to enjoy so often in the old days.
I'm crossing my fingers that Drifters are just a stand-in until something more distinct from the marine builder-bots is in place.
It's not that Alien Commander is a terrible feature, and the thread title is a little extreme, it does detract from the experience of the poor Gorge. If the Alien Commander stays, can't wait to see what UWE flesh out the Gorge with since it's now missing some gameplay elements.
<!--quoteo(post=1787683:date=Jul 28 2010, 02:41 PM:name=abYsss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (abYsss @ Jul 28 2010, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So basically you want to be able to perform your tactics alone? Thats what I understand from most of you, that you prefer to play it solo style rather then seeing it revert into a similar teamplay as the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Effectively... yes. That is the nature of most online gameplay. The point is that in NS1 it was so well done the aliens would team up naturally. i.e., Gorges would build up and move forward. If a Fade was attacking I would moveup and start healing him. While he was off attacking I'd start locking down the area with Towers. That was the natural progression and teamwork.
<!--quoteo(post=1787683:date=Jul 28 2010, 02:41 PM:name=abYsss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (abYsss @ Jul 28 2010, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No one would play the commander, there is no point for him if he doesn't have anything to do, that the others can't. "Oh lets drop some resource towers, hm, my gorges already did. Never mind then." "maybe i could build something else?" gorge player:"idiot, stop wasting resources for this, we decide what needs to be build." "I could help them out strategic wise. wait, why does no one listen to my instructions?" "Alright this is stupid, im just sitting in the hive, not being able to do anything productive."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander could serve one major function in directing the aliens, but not at the expense of the Gorges. Firstly, I would give all aliens in the area of the commander a small health regeneration and small increase in attack and defence stats. Next I'd have the aliens by the commander able to see indicators about where humans are in the local area. I would allow Gorges to give their resources to the commander. I would increase the resource cap for alien commander while reducing the cap for the Gorges.
I think this would be a far better way of having a directed alien strategy without it breaking NS1 mechanics.
I don't really see the AC breaking Ns mechanics, it is different, shure, but before we can judge about it, we should wait and see what they have planned for it.
Maybe Gorges serve a major function in spreading the dynamic ifnestation that may be needed to build things.
If things then turn out to be bad it can still be changed. But asking for a change, when we essentially haven't even seen yet how it works, is just odd.
The alien commander sounds great to me for me the following reason:
About half of my time as alien I was what you might call a career gorge. I always dropped the first RT, made sure another gorge saved for second hive, dropped the third hive myself. I coordinated with the other players to determine which upgrade structures they wanted, and with the other gorges to make sure those got dropped as soon as the hive slots were available. I spent hours building tower walls and stacks and hours more working on web formations.
So really to me it just feels as though UWE has validated my play style, and in fact empowered it with an official position and new abilities. I can't wait.
I think the asymmetry can still very much kick in. Right now you're seeing the very basic scaffolding for each commander, the actual functionalities could still be very different from each other. Further on, the alien commander gives the developers much better chances of designing the rest of the alien team more asymmetric from marines, since they don't have to be struggling with the limitations of 5 very specialized classes.
As for the gorge's role: I think even the present gorge plays out more interesting as a support lifeform first and as an occassional builder second, especially on the res starved public games of nowadays. If they can make the support side more accessible, it's already a decent start for building up a reasonable role for gorge in NS2. I think it could be far better than the NS1 implementation unless you're specifically looking for a TF2 engineer class in it.
Just came to think about the webbing ability of the Gorge, anyone know if that's still planned/implemented/ for NS2? Couldn't find anything about it while playing, but I may have missed something :P
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1787372:date=Jul 28 2010, 06:31 AM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Jul 28 2010, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't count the number of times I've needed to post a rolleyes smiley in the forum only to realize there isn't one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
got some more permanently hosted <a href="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/" target="_blank">http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/</a>
As far as I know, they just made the gorge more of an offensive unit, with healing support capabilities... The Hive mind, is just there to assist the player with upgrades and resource towers... Sounds quit asymmetrical vs the marines to me... besides, it's not as if it has show to be either bad or good... Go away please and come back when we're in beta testing
<!--quoteo(post=1787694:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:02 AM:name=teh_fatts)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teh_fatts @ Jul 28 2010, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...I also would like to see Drifters go out the window in favor of direct placement anywhere the dynamic infestation has reached.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 Very good idea. adds to the game atmosphere really making a diference to spread dynamic infestation or preventing it to get to a certain location.
And i think the gorge has just became the Battle Gorge, More support and offence, i personaly like the role.
If alien com becomes just more of a bulder function without the hassle to drop packs and ammo etc... it would be a good place to "train" marine comanders and good to increase overall player base.
<!--quoteo(post=1787700:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:08 AM:name=echs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (echs @ Jul 28 2010, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not that Alien Commander is a terrible feature, and the thread title is a little extreme, it does detract from the experience of the poor Gorge. If the Alien Commander stays, can't wait to see what UWE flesh out the Gorge with since it's now missing some gameplay elements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pretty much this.
I thought gorges were getting defense chambers eventually (The Crag)? Maybe not. They are mobile defense chambers, so meh. I'm pretty sure they are getting more nice things as more is released in the Alpha.
I'm with the OP on this one. NS1 was a good game due to diversity, not symmetry. Having the ability to play marines / aliens differently is what made the game fun and dynamic.
1.) Having an Alien Commander will put more of the ability to win on one person. This means that many of the games we play are going to be based off of one person instead of a teamwork of people. I don't suppose many of you remember the games during the NS1 days when a ###### commander could totally ruin a game. Sadly, with an alien commander the same thing may result. This change just makes it 2x more likely.
2.) Drifters / MACs - Wow is it going to be hard to cap RT in blind areas of the map or sneak them past the other team. THIS is one of the key features that made NS1 SO VERY eventful! Sneak placing a hive or going gorge to quick drop a RT could usually change the swing of the game within minutes. Frankly, this is why I loved NS1 so much, is for the ability of the team to be dynamic, sneaky, and inconsistent.
The game has a lot of potential, and since it is still in Alpha, i do not expect many game balancing issues to be sorted as of now. However, they need to figure out a way to take pressure off of the Alien commander and distribute it throughout the alien team.
<!--quoteo(post=1787835:date=Jul 28 2010, 01:35 PM:name=ChaosInc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChaosInc @ Jul 28 2010, 01:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 for no AC
I too do not like the impact an Alien eye in the sky it will have on the games atmosphere and spirit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you referring to how in NS1, the alien gameplay was predominately ramboing-fades and gorges building oc/defense-chamber forts, and only because the aliens were so overpowered that the efforts of 4 or so good aliens could beat a marine team of 15 in practically every ###### game?
I welcome the alien commander concept because it's about time the alien teams success depended on a commanders skill. And remember, that's how it was in the movie Aliens which is our bible here.
<!--quoteo(post=1787647:date=Jul 28 2010, 08:40 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Jul 28 2010, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can anyone have such a strong opinion against it until its properly tried and tested ? its different dont be so scared of a little change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good advice. Can't wait for the onos to come out so we can see the "WHERES DA DEVOUR!!!11" posts. xD
<!--quoteo(post=1787822:date=Jul 28 2010, 06:25 PM:name=Dtere)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dtere @ Jul 28 2010, 06:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.) Having an Alien Commander will put more of the ability to win on one person. This means that many of the games we play are going to be based off of one person instead of a teamwork of people. I don't suppose many of you remember the games during the NS1 days when a ###### commander could totally ruin a game. Sadly, with an alien commander the same thing may result. This change just makes it 2x more likely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Especially in smaller teams NS1 games were often somewhat decided by fades and lerks, especially if they weren't around in certain situations. Alien commander can actually give the alien team more middle ground instead of strictly relying on the specialist lifeforms. Also UWE has stated, they want to remove at least some of the dependency on commanders. I wouldn't worry too much on the commander ruining the game either.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.) Drifters / MACs - Wow is it going to be hard to cap RT in blind areas of the map or sneak them past the other team. THIS is one of the key features that made NS1 SO VERY eventful! Sneak placing a hive or going gorge to quick drop a RT could usually change the swing of the game within minutes. Frankly, this is why I loved NS1 so much, is for the ability of the team to be dynamic, sneaky, and inconsistent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think I've ever seen sneaky capped nodes going unnoticed for long in NS. Sneaky hives are also scouted by any decent commander.
Alien commander also adds a huge amount of dynamic options for aliens, it's definitely progress on that section. If anything, aliens were predictable in NS1. Marines were more dynamic exactly because they had a commander able to invest on things, instead of having an ineffective spread of res pools that rely heavily on long saving. Dealing with such system has its own beauty of course, but for the dynamic and possibly inconsistent play alien commander definitely opens tons of new possibilties.
<!--quoteo(post=1787434:date=Jul 27 2010, 11:52 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jul 27 2010, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only now do you want to ###### about what was well known for like a year?
NS2 is NOT NS1 + GRAPHICS. And by being distinct from its predecessor it is guaranteed that no matter how popular NS2 gets, there will always be NS1 servers to play on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're yelling at someone who did post a year ago. Bravo Wolf, this is the biggest facepalm yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1787639:date=Jul 28 2010, 07:17 AM:name=Mr_Charisma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr_Charisma @ Jul 28 2010, 07:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787639"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien game play focused far too much on the individual skill of each player and was utterly merciless to new players. NS2 provides a great opportunity, by having a fresh start, the game can be built form the ground up and ultimately create a superior product. Simply rebuilding the game will only cause the exact same downfalls which plagued NS1. For the layperson, whom is not used to the dogged and unforgiving NS1, having an (hopefully) helping hand in the form of a commander can only be a boon. As for asymmetry, I really think that at their core the two sides are very distinct from one another and this would not totally effect their uniqueness in the long run.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. I have played countless times as a marine comm and a grunt on the Marine team on pubs in NS1 and one Fade can carry the whole alien team to victory (well the alien players have to have a basic understanding of the alien gameplay ie 2nd hive ect ect) vs a good comm and average marines who listen to the comm.
As for aliens in NS1 there was nothing like teamwork that was formed when the marines had a clear advantage (2 hive lockdown) or the going gets tough I guess. Team work being formed in the heat of battle, everyone is clicking and working together; however I have seen games where there is no teamwork what so ever. Gorges go build their little forts here and there and baby sit it, skulks just cruise around the map looking for kills to fade/lerk/onos/drop 2nd hive and eating RTs. ZERO communication on the direction of the alien game.
When playing aliens, I remember when I first picked it up. The learning curve was huge; understanding what each class was used for and what RTs did and the spectrum of the game. I remember seeing new players inadvertently screw the alien team over because they had no idea of what they were doing leading that new player to berated by his teammates and possible not ever coming back to NS, or just going and playing Combat (I despise combat mode).
With the addition to the Aliens of the AC I think it will give a type of command and control aspect to the team. One unified fight against the Marines. A sole player who is dedicated to tracking the course of the fight, making decisions, and predicting what the Marines will do and the aliens best counter to it should be. Informing the team of the big picture and getting feedback from them on what they should pursue.
Sure, people will be people and decide to do their own thing and not listen to the Comm, both marines and aliens, but there is nothing that can be done to make it so that they follow the comms guidance.
I have faith in the developers that they will make the right decision in the commanding of both the Aliens and Marines. Whether it be keep the AC or toss it. The Alpha and Beta will determine what will happen and the course of NS2.
IMO: It kills the love of the game. The magic in this game for ME was that two different teams had TWO very different approach on how to win a round. For Aliens, different individuals had to sacrifice their gameplay to go on defensive side by saving their points to build structures. On the other hand, all of the Marines had one purpose: to follow instructions given by one man (the commander) therefore, promoting teamplay.
If Alien commander is implemented on the final product you will no longer have those, imbalances and advantages that makes this game an unique product.
I didn't really mind the idea of both sides having a commander, but I do mind them being so similar in execution. Someone suggested doing away with Drifters as buildbots, and instead just having chambers grown spontaneously where the commander chooses, and that sounds much more interesting. Of course, they'd still be useful for scouting (and eventually their special abilities).
Would also be nice to get that "work with the team" aspect back for the marines by making MACs build much more slowly without the help of a marine player, right now the game looks like team deathmatch with commanders doing their own thing entirely.
UW said they'd remove alien comm if it didn't feel right, but lets at least see what the thing can bring to the table before crying a river about it. all it can do right now is create builders with only a resource tower as its blueprint. how can you judge off of that?
I honestly don't get why Gorge's AND the com can't both drop resource towers, along with why marines AND builder bots both can't build, all it does is add MORE variety and strategy while taking NOTHING away from the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1724008:date=Aug 20 2009, 11:24 PM:name=uber_earp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (uber_earp @ Aug 20 2009, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you guys do implement an Alien Commander in this, I'm telling you now that people aren't going to play it for long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the most intuitive, balanced features added to the game and you want to remove it?
It's not NS 1, the half-life modification; things change.
Comments
as crakinshot stated, who wants to be a gorge then, i like gorgin' but if half is taken away by a comm, no thanks.
it must be implemented in the server if people want a comm or not, by means of voting or static.
I think that's the point of multiple commanders, you don't need <i>a</i> commander, because people can hop in and do what they need doing at that time, rather than bugging the comm for something you can just hop into the nearest hive and drop an RT.
And Gorges can still spit, heal and drop the new OCs. They also got the new defensive crouch and belly slide. The perfect battle support class. If you think that's lacking strategic impact have you considered playing the alien commander yourself?
Btw the alien commander is absolutely NOT a carbon copy of the marine commander. He doesn't need to babysit his troops and doesn't need to drop ammo and medpacks. And the drifters work a little differently from the build bots.
I almost always play as aliens in NS1 and I usually always play as a Gorge because I love building stuff and holding corridors. My favourite tactic would be to build up my resources then go to a "dangerous" location which was strategically important (like a junction) then drop offence towers and a defence tower. The defence tower would keep me and the offence towers alive long enough for other aliens to notice I was under attack and come to help. It worked because you had the defence towers. It worked because you could effectively block a corridor with offence towers. I would play entire matches just as a Gorge. I fear with less to do they will be boring to play as and ultimately less people will chose to play as them... thus again ruining the gameplay for people who attack as aliens because they can't get defence towers up front.
I sincerely hope NS2 reverts back to how it was in NS1 for these two very important aspects (being able to build defence towers and the offence towers being big enough to block corridors, but still leave enough room for the marines to "crouch" over them).
If anything the only part of NS1 mechanics I would change for the aliens would be to allow them to transfer resources to other players... say every 10 seconds or so. The beauty of the aliens was/is that all the aliens seemed to be completely individual... BUT, resulted in very very good team playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So basically you want to be able to perform your tactics alone?
Thats what I understand from most of you, that you prefer to play it solo style rather then seeing it revert into a similar teamplay as the marines.
I still don't see how the Gorge could be called useless, given the fact that we have only seen a glimpse of his abilities.
His role changes, but not for the worse.
<!--quoteo(post=1787671:date=Jul 28 2010, 03:28 PM:name=Sempai.Hanz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sempai.Hanz @ Jul 28 2010, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the mechanic of Alien commander was fundamentally different. I think more people would get on board...
If there was a way that it seemed to be linked to hive mind - you can only see parts of the map where players are - and, I don't know, you could slip into first person view with the little builders.
Perhaps, give the gorges back some of their building power? (defense towers) and make the Alien commander kind of like the big brother...the spirit of the aliens.. he/she can help with the offensive/defensive effort... building structures as well but CO-ORDINATING the alien forces..
If Alien commander was more of a co-ordinator and helper..that would be great.. but another Marine commander without the metal..hmm.. don't know..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one would play the commander, there is no point for him if he doesn't have anything to do, that the others can't.
"Oh lets drop some resource towers, hm, my gorges already did. Never mind then."
"maybe i could build something else?" gorge player:"idiot, stop wasting resources for this, we decide what needs to be build."
"I could help them out strategic wise. wait, why does no one listen to my instructions?"
"Alright this is stupid, im just sitting in the hive, not being able to do anything productive."
I do think having an alien commander could positively add to the game in other areas.
I also think that making sure both these things happen will be tricky, but if anyone is up to the challenge it's Unknown Worlds.
...I also would like to see Drifters go out the window in favor of direct placement anywhere the dynamic infestation has reached. When combined with the gorge's ability to spread it manually, that allows for both autonomous or even gorge-free development if the alien team wants to have only one strategist, OR a gorge-heavy reactive land-grab like I used to enjoy so often in the old days.
I'm crossing my fingers that Drifters are just a stand-in until something more distinct from the marine builder-bots is in place.
i'll just have to wait it out i guess...
Thats what I understand from most of you, that you prefer to play it solo style rather then seeing it revert into a similar teamplay as the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Effectively... yes. That is the nature of most online gameplay. The point is that in NS1 it was so well done the aliens would team up naturally. i.e., Gorges would build up and move forward. If a Fade was attacking I would moveup and start healing him. While he was off attacking I'd start locking down the area with Towers. That was the natural progression and teamwork.
<!--quoteo(post=1787683:date=Jul 28 2010, 02:41 PM:name=abYsss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (abYsss @ Jul 28 2010, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No one would play the commander, there is no point for him if he doesn't have anything to do, that the others can't.
"Oh lets drop some resource towers, hm, my gorges already did. Never mind then."
"maybe i could build something else?" gorge player:"idiot, stop wasting resources for this, we decide what needs to be build."
"I could help them out strategic wise. wait, why does no one listen to my instructions?"
"Alright this is stupid, im just sitting in the hive, not being able to do anything productive."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander could serve one major function in directing the aliens, but not at the expense of the Gorges. Firstly, I would give all aliens in the area of the commander a small health regeneration and small increase in attack and defence stats. Next I'd have the aliens by the commander able to see indicators about where humans are in the local area. I would allow Gorges to give their resources to the commander. I would increase the resource cap for alien commander while reducing the cap for the Gorges.
I think this would be a far better way of having a directed alien strategy without it breaking NS1 mechanics.
Maybe Gorges serve a major function in spreading the dynamic ifnestation that may be needed to build things.
If things then turn out to be bad it can still be changed.
But asking for a change, when we essentially haven't even seen yet how it works, is just odd.
About half of my time as alien I was what you might call a career gorge. I always dropped the first RT, made sure another gorge saved for second hive, dropped the third hive myself. I coordinated with the other players to determine which upgrade structures they wanted, and with the other gorges to make sure those got dropped as soon as the hive slots were available. I spent hours building tower walls and stacks and hours more working on web formations.
So really to me it just feels as though UWE has validated my play style, and in fact empowered it with an official position and new abilities. I can't wait.
As for the gorge's role: I think even the present gorge plays out more interesting as a support lifeform first and as an occassional builder second, especially on the res starved public games of nowadays. If they can make the support side more accessible, it's already a decent start for building up a reasonable role for gorge in NS2. I think it could be far better than the NS1 implementation unless you're specifically looking for a TF2 engineer class in it.
Couldn't find anything about it while playing, but I may have missed something :P
<img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
got some more permanently hosted
<a href="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/" target="_blank">http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/</a>
As far as I know, they just made the gorge more of an offensive unit, with healing support capabilities... The Hive mind, is just there to assist the player with upgrades and resource towers... Sounds quit asymmetrical vs the marines to me... besides, it's not as if it has show to be either bad or good... Go away please and come back when we're in beta testing
+1 Very good idea. adds to the game atmosphere really making a diference to spread dynamic infestation or preventing it to get to a certain location.
And i think the gorge has just became the Battle Gorge, More support and offence, i personaly like the role.
If alien com becomes just more of a bulder function without the hassle to drop packs and ammo etc... it would be a good place to "train" marine comanders and good to increase overall player base.
Lets wait and see.
Pretty much this.
I thought gorges were getting defense chambers eventually (The Crag)? Maybe not. They are mobile defense chambers, so meh. I'm pretty sure they are getting more nice things as more is released in the Alpha.
1.) Having an Alien Commander will put more of the ability to win on one person. This means that many of the games we play are going to be based off of one person instead of a teamwork of people. I don't suppose many of you remember the games during the NS1 days when a ###### commander could totally ruin a game. Sadly, with an alien commander the same thing may result. This change just makes it 2x more likely.
2.) Drifters / MACs - Wow is it going to be hard to cap RT in blind areas of the map or sneak them past the other team. THIS is one of the key features that made NS1 SO VERY eventful! Sneak placing a hive or going gorge to quick drop a RT could usually change the swing of the game within minutes. Frankly, this is why I loved NS1 so much, is for the ability of the team to be dynamic, sneaky, and inconsistent.
The game has a lot of potential, and since it is still in Alpha, i do not expect many game balancing issues to be sorted as of now. However, they need to figure out a way to take pressure off of the Alien commander and distribute it throughout the alien team.
I too do not like the impact an Alien eye in the sky it will have on the games atmosphere and spirit.
I too do not like the impact an Alien eye in the sky it will have on the games atmosphere and spirit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you referring to how in NS1, the alien gameplay was predominately ramboing-fades and gorges building oc/defense-chamber forts, and only because the aliens were so overpowered that the efforts of 4 or so good aliens could beat a marine team of 15 in practically every ###### game?
I welcome the alien commander concept because it's about time the alien teams success depended on a commanders skill. And remember, that's how it was in the movie Aliens which is our bible here.
<!--quoteo(post=1787647:date=Jul 28 2010, 08:40 AM:name=Saj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saj @ Jul 28 2010, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1787647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can anyone have such a strong opinion against it until its properly tried and tested ? its different dont be so scared of a little change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good advice. Can't wait for the onos to come out so we can see the "WHERES DA DEVOUR!!!11" posts. xD
Especially in smaller teams NS1 games were often somewhat decided by fades and lerks, especially if they weren't around in certain situations. Alien commander can actually give the alien team more middle ground instead of strictly relying on the specialist lifeforms. Also UWE has stated, they want to remove at least some of the dependency on commanders. I wouldn't worry too much on the commander ruining the game either.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.) Drifters / MACs - Wow is it going to be hard to cap RT in blind areas of the map or sneak them past the other team. THIS is one of the key features that made NS1 SO VERY eventful! Sneak placing a hive or going gorge to quick drop a RT could usually change the swing of the game within minutes. Frankly, this is why I loved NS1 so much, is for the ability of the team to be dynamic, sneaky, and inconsistent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think I've ever seen sneaky capped nodes going unnoticed for long in NS. Sneaky hives are also scouted by any decent commander.
Alien commander also adds a huge amount of dynamic options for aliens, it's definitely progress on that section. If anything, aliens were predictable in NS1. Marines were more dynamic exactly because they had a commander able to invest on things, instead of having an ineffective spread of res pools that rely heavily on long saving. Dealing with such system has its own beauty of course, but for the dynamic and possibly inconsistent play alien commander definitely opens tons of new possibilties.
NS2 is NOT NS1 + GRAPHICS. And by being distinct from its predecessor it is guaranteed that no matter how popular NS2 gets, there will always be NS1 servers to play on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're yelling at someone who did post a year ago. Bravo Wolf, this is the biggest facepalm yet.
Simply rebuilding the game will only cause the exact same downfalls which plagued NS1. For the layperson, whom is not used to the dogged and unforgiving NS1, having an (hopefully) helping hand in the form of a commander can only be a boon.
As for asymmetry, I really think that at their core the two sides are very distinct from one another and this would not totally effect their uniqueness in the long run.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. I have played countless times as a marine comm and a grunt on the Marine team on pubs in NS1 and one Fade can carry the whole alien team to victory (well the alien players have to have a basic understanding of the alien gameplay ie 2nd hive ect ect) vs a good comm and average marines who listen to the comm.
As for aliens in NS1 there was nothing like teamwork that was formed when the marines had a clear advantage (2 hive lockdown) or the going gets tough I guess. Team work being formed in the heat of battle, everyone is clicking and working together; however I have seen games where there is no teamwork what so ever. Gorges go build their little forts here and there and baby sit it, skulks just cruise around the map looking for kills to fade/lerk/onos/drop 2nd hive and eating RTs. ZERO communication on the direction of the alien game.
When playing aliens, I remember when I first picked it up. The learning curve was huge; understanding what each class was used for and what RTs did and the spectrum of the game. I remember seeing new players inadvertently screw the alien team over because they had no idea of what they were doing leading that new player to berated by his teammates and possible not ever coming back to NS, or just going and playing Combat (I despise combat mode).
With the addition to the Aliens of the AC I think it will give a type of command and control aspect to the team. One unified fight against the Marines. A sole player who is dedicated to tracking the course of the fight, making decisions, and predicting what the Marines will do and the aliens best counter to it should be. Informing the team of the big picture and getting feedback from them on what they should pursue.
Sure, people will be people and decide to do their own thing and not listen to the Comm, both marines and aliens, but there is nothing that can be done to make it so that they follow the comms guidance.
I have faith in the developers that they will make the right decision in the commanding of both the Aliens and Marines. Whether it be keep the AC or toss it. The Alpha and Beta will determine what will happen and the course of NS2.
If Alien commander is implemented on the final product you will no longer have those, imbalances and advantages that makes this game an unique product.
Someone suggested doing away with Drifters as buildbots, and instead just having chambers grown spontaneously where the commander chooses, and that sounds much more interesting. Of course, they'd still be useful for scouting (and eventually their special abilities).
Would also be nice to get that "work with the team" aspect back for the marines by making MACs build much more slowly without the help of a marine player, right now the game looks like team deathmatch with commanders doing their own thing entirely.
One of the most intuitive, balanced features added to the game and you want to remove it?
It's not NS 1, the half-life modification; things change.