Remember you're not just spending for NS2, you're spending for a modern, very mod-friendly engine complete with all editing tools that's going to be extensively tested and optimized over the coming months and years.
The closest examples are Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2. WC3 set a trend for a great base of custom maps that many people play instead of WC3 itself. Consequently, a ton of people are buying SC2 almost exclusively for the content people are bound to make with the editing tools, not because they necessarily even enjoy the core gameplay.
Also Remember That like all games Once it comes out new there all too expensive but the Price seems to always drop or go on sale. I think the Price is a good set for starting price.
It's not so much a question on whether the game is worth $34.95, but whether people on the outside, who haven't been patiently waiting for the release, will think it's worth it. NS2 has much more to offer than many the big budget titles and if we use the original as a benchmark, the depth of NS2 will be so great that many new people will struggle with the steep learning curve. Because of this extra depth and higher steeper learning curve, NS2 is more of a niche title that won't garner the same wide spread apeal that TF2 or CS:S has.
If you listen to the developers commentary in TF2, you'll find that the TF2 crew decided to ditch many of the concepts that the original NS would go onto use, and instead, they wanted the game to be fun for everybody, from casual to competitive players. Of course, to us $34.95 is good value for because we know and love the original, but for the average joe who doesn't have our experience, it's a tough ask for them to fork out that much for a game they have probably seen little of from a virtually unknown (no pun intended) dev team.
<!--quoteo(post=1785737:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:30 AM:name=Slycaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slycaster @ Jul 27 2010, 07:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still find it funny that people act as if NS2 feels like an indie game. It doesn't. It has the workings to shape up with any AAA title. It's just built on an indie foundation. If UWE wants to market themselves are more than indie but not AAA yet because they don't have the funds, that's their choice. However, I can nearly assure you that on release, you will definitely not feel gyped paying 35 dollars for this "indie game" as it will be content and feature wise just as large as any 50 dollar title and in a unique space.
NS2 kind of left the indie development scene awhile back with the amount of interest it has. They're more a start-up company than your traditional indie developer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1785737:date=Jul 27 2010, 05:30 PM:name=Slycaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slycaster @ Jul 27 2010, 05:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, I can nearly assure you that on release, you will definitely not feel gyped paying 35 dollars for this "indie game" as it will be content and feature wise just as large as any 50 dollar title and in a unique space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that, the problem is convincing my friends who don't know much about ns1 that it is worth it.
I think most you guys need to look up what an "Indie Game" is. They have nothing but our support to keep this game going. If anything, it's the indie game developers that deserve the $50 price tags, not mass developed and marketed games where company give up on them within a year or 2 -or- where it takes a year before the first and only patch...
I bet some of you guys who are complaining about the $35 price tag probably pre-ordered MW2 at $60.. or even went as far as to buy the "special" MW2 console... YOU are the reason games are now $60. And you complain about $35 from a game that blows MW2 out of the water. Shame on you.
Compare it to the price of a movie ticket. It's AMAZINGLY good value. They could charge $100 and you still get years of fun out of it. YEARS!
If the price is higher then they can maybe hire some staff to help develop the game. It's a win win situation. This isn't some crappy game like AvP where the final version feels like alpha and then there is no after support or good patches.
<!--quoteo(post=1785834:date=Jul 27 2010, 01:39 AM:name=Penguin333)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Penguin333 @ Jul 27 2010, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->29.99 would be a much more appealing price tag<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given that they have like 10000 people to tell everyone else how good the game is, it's not like it's entirely unknown and a complete risk, word of mouth is a very good marketing medium if you can get it, people tend to trust it.
Think_Like_A_GunPossibly the world's 1st TSA tattoo bearerJoin Date: 2006-12-20Member: 59158Members
WORD OF MOUTH. That is all it takes. If a game is great you will be pumped up while talking about it with your friend(s). In turn your friend will get excited as well and then well, what do you know they buy it. I sell games for a living, and I know that nothing moves them off the shelves faster then word of mouth or a friends recommendation. Especially when it comes to multiplayer. So the price is not too high.
Am I the only one who thinks 34,99 $ is not enough ? People will think "Oh it's an indie game so it's most likely some sort of puzzle, that has some weird innovation to it, but I hate puzzles, so I don't even look at it" (at least thats the reaction I would expect from any 14 to 16 year old flame kid, but you have to give them credit to know what "indie" is) I'm sure this game will be better thousands of times compared to all this War Simulation Games with self healing and other stuff to make the player feel as retarded as possible, I'm not even talking about the competetive player like Renegade would.
So people it's NOT a puzzle game, it's more likely something like the new Half-Life or maybe better said the AAA and if they want to market it like it's the new AAA sure should do so.
I'm sure they'll upgrade the price further for the v1.0 release.
<!--quoteo(post=1785872:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:03 AM:name=Think_Like_A_Gun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Think_Like_A_Gun @ Jul 27 2010, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->WORD OF MOUTH. That is all it takes. If a game is great you will be pumped up while talking about it with your friend(s). In turn your friend will get excited as well and then well, what do you know they buy it. I sell games for a living, and I know that nothing moves them off the shelves faster then word of mouth or a friends recommendation. Especially when it comes to multiplayer. So the price is not too high.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I'm starting to annoy some of mine by talking about it so much.
yep, even though the game might be better than other top sellers, marketing is what really sells stuff, and personally i think it also ruins stuff. the more people that play, the more people you have to please. if they plan on updating it even close to how tf2 is, you cant possibly please everyone. after every update, the forums get swallowed up in rants and hate.
No word of mouth is gonna generate sales for you when people pay $35 and end up with a complex game with a high learning curve, peoples attention spans are short. If somebody spent that kind of money jumps into the game and doesn't understand it after 15 minutes all the word of mouth you will have is gonna be "overpriced piece of ###### that doesn't even have singleplayer".
Reputation only gets so far and the people that bought the game based on it's mod reputation allready bought it at $20/$40 so you can't expect too many of those.
Sure that price point gives UWE the option to decrease the price at some point but decreasing the price because something doesn't sell well also has it's own kind of stigma... $29,99 has a nicer ring to it and is an easier price to swallow for people, it's basicly also $30 but people don't percieve it as that much because of the 2 infront of it.
Is it worth the price for people who know UWE/NS1 and have fond memories of it? Sure... Is somebody considering it worth the price who has never heard of UWE/NS and hardly played anything like this? I really don't think so... people are picky in this kind of economy, especially PC gamers.
<!--quoteo(post=1785891:date=Jul 27 2010, 02:24 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Jul 27 2010, 02:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You all forget setting the price at $35 gives them room to do those crazy Steam specials which generate a lot of sales....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, they could even do a pre-order special that brings it to $29.99 or something. Steam sure has some amazing sales.
<!--quoteo(post=1785888:date=Jul 27 2010, 11:21 AM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Jul 27 2010, 11:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785888"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No word of mouth is gonna generate sales for you when people pay $35 and end up with a complex game with a high learning curve, peoples attention spans are short. If somebody spent that kind of money jumps into the game and doesn't understand it after 15 minutes all the word of mouth you will have is gonna be "overpriced piece of ###### that doesn't even have singleplayer".
Reputation only gets so far and the people that bought the game based on it's mod reputation allready bought it at $20/$40 so you can't expect too many of those.
Sure that price point gives UWE the option to decrease the price at some point but decreasing the price because something doesn't sell well also has it's own kind of stigma... $29,99 has a nicer ring to it and is an easier price to swallow for people, it's basicly also $30 but people don't percieve it as that much because of the 2 infront of it.
Is it worth the price for people who know UWE/NS1 and have fond memories of it? Sure... Is somebody considering it worth the price who has never heard of UWE/NS and hardly played anything like this? I really don't think so... people are picky in this kind of economy, especially PC gamers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay first of all I'm sure there will be enough reputation for UWE around and second of all I doubt that most people are so considered when it comes to buying a game, if you generate a little hype here and there we all go and by Borderlands for the PC only to find out that it has even major flaws in its engine and the promised bazillion guns boil down to like 50 Diablo II items, but still you get hyped about it (without any TV Ads or game magazines [at least not on my part] ) and buy it for 50 €.
Most likely this hype was generated by people who spend their time reading tests on game magazines, but I'm sure those Editors of the magazines will come to UWE and want to report about their success story and their game (it's just like the american dream and we all know that we want to hear that it works from time to time, don't we ?)
Last of all, if people don't want to spend 35 bucks on a game that isn't easy mode with self healing and the general linear gaming experience you get offered these days ... well it's not really UWE's fault that there are so many idiots :P
I don't see the point arguing about that price tag at all, maybe we should lock this, because their buisness is none of ours ...
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I think honestly, this price is fair. I think had they never tried it, they'd never know if it would stick at this price. They have room to scale back, and *everyone* loves a discount, so they have wiggle room to generate some sales during holidays.
And also, don't underestimate word of mouth and the value of a free weekend or two.
NS2 Free on Steam this Halloween!! NS2 for $19.99 this thanksgiving weekend!! etc.
I mean, they could even do ######e like that zebra mount in wow for recommending a friend.. but give a black polished metal shotgun or something instead.
<!--quoteo(post=1785905:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:40 AM:name=1mannARMEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1mannARMEE @ Jul 27 2010, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Okay first of all I'm sure there will be enough reputation for UWE around and second of all I doubt that most people are so considered when it comes to buying a game, if you generate a little hype here and there we all go and by Borderlands for the PC only to find out that it has even major flaws in its engine and the promised bazillion guns boil down to like 50 Diablo II items, but still you get hyped about it (without any TV Ads or game magazines [at least not on my part] ) and buy it for 50 €.
Most likely this hype was generated by people who spend their time reading tests on game magazines, but I'm sure those Editors of the magazines will come to UWE and want to report about their success story and their game (it's just like the american dream and we all know that we want to hear that it works from time to time, don't we ?)
Last of all, if people don't want to spend 35 bucks on a game that isn't easy mode with self healing and the general linear gaming experience you get offered these days ... well it's not really UWE's fault that there are so many idiots :P
I don't see the point arguing about that price tag at all, maybe we should lock this, because their buisness is none of ours ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PC gamers are considered about what they spent their money on... And like i said: People who buy the game on reputation allready bought it, that's not a customer base you suddenly gonna touch. Most of them allready have it.
And borderlands did have a massive ad campaign, tv spots and a well known and established dev studio and publisher behind it. Also the concept of "diablo with guns" it easier to understand and more mass appealing than "counter strike with starcraft" because RTS games are still considered a niche. It also had decent reviews to back it up and nowadays reviews drive sales more than anything else...
Just take a look at blacklight tango down, it's not a complete indie game, yet it comes at a very low price but still offers much content, no SP tho. Reviewers still raped that game in reviews because they expect AAA quality and instant gratification gameplay, if a game can't deliver on that in their eyes and ontop of that has a "high pricetag" (high in terms of what's considered normal for indie games) they will just shred it to pieces in their review.
Too many people here are too blinded by their UWE following to see this situation from a view that doesn't inolve years of nice memories with NS1 and nice dev-fan interaction between UWE and us. I would pay $60 for NS2 no problem, the problem is that i'm not joe-regular customer who never heard of NS or UWE before and never played an RTS game before because they just don't appeal to him.
Joe regular customer is gonna have an hard time convincing himself to spend that kind of money on an unknown IP, from an unknown dev, without a big publisher backing it and with a "new" game genre. Too many "unknowns" in there to make it an easy purchase at that price point.
<!--quoteo(post=1785891:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:24 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Jul 27 2010, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You all forget setting the price at $35 gives them room to do those crazy Steam specials which generate a lot of sales....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what I was going to say, lets face its on Steam a high proportion of sales are going to be during sales, so $30 or less probably.
Yeah you might be right, I'm talking maybe too much subjective from the fanboy point of view, but I'm sure they have connections* to the right people and I'm sure their angel investors are going to help.
* by connections I mean they have friends (real ones, not money related) in the right places, who can help spreading the word.
Also I doubt that anyone who is going to watch Youtube replays of the alpha is going to come here and buy it, the higher price tag is maybe for those NS1 players that didn't want to spend money on NS2 so early, but are now motivated, since it's getting released.
I doubt that the Alpha will attract any complete new players ... thats for v1.0 imho.
It's worth every penny, the visuals alone would tempt anyone to buy it if they're new to NS. Even when NS came out, it was much much more than a MOD, it felt and looked like a AAA game. NS2 does the same, doesn't seem like an indie game, but rather a AAA but without the marketing power to push it onto everyones screens.
Ohhhhh crap I didn't even realise the Standard Edition pricing was a limited time thing. I'm the only one out of my buddies who forked out for the Special Edition/Pre-Purchased, they're not big fans of dropping money on stuff long before release. Now thats going to make it an even harder sell :( Tell you what a good feature for Special Edition owners should be - a couple of guest passes.
Regarding the pricing I think it's too steep definitely. For me personally it isn't, but thats not the point. Too many players are just going by their own opinion, remember your the ones who visit the NS2 forums months and months before its release. Standard consumers coming along who see the game pop up on Steam and see $35 arn't going to impulse drop that kinda cash on it.
I think it will do fine. Steam is a great place for indie titles and Natural Selection 2 has higher standards than many indie titles. In many ways it's just as good as any AAA game.
It's a fair price. I firmly believe that a simple front page steam store page advertisement for a while and some free weekends / half off sales every now and then could be all the marketing this game needs. Word of mouth and Steam are two of the most powerful marketing tools available. A free weekend on or shortly after release could really put NS2 on the map.
To the people who say that the price is too high for them to to buy it, and that they should have left it around $19.99 or at least $29.00 I have this question:
Being that I am a cheap ######(edit: "illegitimate child") and my only real interest in NS2 until it gets to at least the beta stage(i.e. playable, but still buggy) is to toy a bit with the spark editor; I pre-ordered two copies of the standard edition when it was still cheap and gave one to a friend.
Comments
The closest examples are Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2. WC3 set a trend for a great base of custom maps that many people play instead of WC3 itself. Consequently, a ton of people are buying SC2 almost exclusively for the content people are bound to make with the editing tools, not because they necessarily even enjoy the core gameplay.
If you listen to the developers commentary in TF2, you'll find that the TF2 crew decided to ditch many of the concepts that the original NS would go onto use, and instead, they wanted the game to be fun for everybody, from casual to competitive players. Of course, to us $34.95 is good value for because we know and love the original, but for the average joe who doesn't have our experience, it's a tough ask for them to fork out that much for a game they have probably seen little of from a virtually unknown (no pun intended) dev team.
NS2 kind of left the indie development scene awhile back with the amount of interest it has. They're more a start-up company than your traditional indie developer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's an indie game.
I know that, the problem is convincing my friends who don't know much about ns1 that it is worth it.
I think most you guys need to look up what an "Indie Game" is. They have nothing but our support to keep this game going. If anything, it's the indie game developers that deserve the $50 price tags, not mass developed and marketed games where company give up on them within a year or 2 -or- where it takes a year before the first and only patch...
I bet some of you guys who are complaining about the $35 price tag probably pre-ordered MW2 at $60.. or even went as far as to buy the "special" MW2 console... YOU are the reason games are now $60. And you complain about $35 from a game that blows MW2 out of the water. Shame on you.
If the price is higher then they can maybe hire some staff to help develop the game. It's a win win situation. This isn't some crappy game like AvP where the final version feels like alpha and then there is no after support or good patches.
Yep, $29.99 sounds a lot better.
People will think "Oh it's an indie game so it's most likely some sort of puzzle, that has some weird innovation to it, but I hate puzzles, so I don't even look at it" (at least thats the reaction I would expect from any 14 to 16 year old flame kid, but you have to give them credit to know what "indie" is)
I'm sure this game will be better thousands of times compared to all this War Simulation Games with self healing and other stuff to make the player feel as retarded as possible, I'm not even talking about the competetive player like Renegade would.
So people it's NOT a puzzle game, it's more likely something like the new Half-Life or maybe better said the AAA and if they want to market it like it's the new AAA sure should do so.
I'm sure they'll upgrade the price further for the v1.0 release.
I think I'm starting to annoy some of mine by talking about it so much.
Reputation only gets so far and the people that bought the game based on it's mod reputation allready bought it at $20/$40 so you can't expect too many of those.
Sure that price point gives UWE the option to decrease the price at some point but decreasing the price because something doesn't sell well also has it's own kind of stigma...
$29,99 has a nicer ring to it and is an easier price to swallow for people, it's basicly also $30 but people don't percieve it as that much because of the 2 infront of it.
Is it worth the price for people who know UWE/NS1 and have fond memories of it? Sure...
Is somebody considering it worth the price who has never heard of UWE/NS and hardly played anything like this? I really don't think so... people are picky in this kind of economy, especially PC gamers.
Yeah, they could even do a pre-order special that brings it to $29.99 or something. Steam sure has some amazing sales.
Reputation only gets so far and the people that bought the game based on it's mod reputation allready bought it at $20/$40 so you can't expect too many of those.
Sure that price point gives UWE the option to decrease the price at some point but decreasing the price because something doesn't sell well also has it's own kind of stigma...
$29,99 has a nicer ring to it and is an easier price to swallow for people, it's basicly also $30 but people don't percieve it as that much because of the 2 infront of it.
Is it worth the price for people who know UWE/NS1 and have fond memories of it? Sure...
Is somebody considering it worth the price who has never heard of UWE/NS and hardly played anything like this? I really don't think so... people are picky in this kind of economy, especially PC gamers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay first of all I'm sure there will be enough reputation for UWE around and second of all I doubt that most people are so considered when it comes to buying a game, if you generate a little hype here and there we all go and by Borderlands for the PC only to find out that it has even major flaws in its engine and the promised bazillion guns boil down to like 50 Diablo II items, but still you get hyped about it (without any TV Ads or game magazines [at least not on my part] ) and buy it for 50 €.
Most likely this hype was generated by people who spend their time reading tests on game magazines, but I'm sure those Editors of the magazines will come to UWE and want to report about their success story and their game (it's just like the american dream and we all know that we want to hear that it works from time to time, don't we ?)
Last of all, if people don't want to spend 35 bucks on a game that isn't easy mode with self healing and the general linear gaming experience you get offered these days ... well it's not really UWE's fault that there are so many idiots :P
I don't see the point arguing about that price tag at all, maybe we should lock this, because their buisness is none of ours ...
And also, don't underestimate word of mouth and the value of a free weekend or two.
NS2 Free on Steam this Halloween!!
NS2 for $19.99 this thanksgiving weekend!!
etc.
I mean, they could even do ######e like that zebra mount in wow for recommending a friend.. but give a black polished metal shotgun or something instead.
Most likely this hype was generated by people who spend their time reading tests on game magazines, but I'm sure those Editors of the magazines will come to UWE and want to report about their success story and their game (it's just like the american dream and we all know that we want to hear that it works from time to time, don't we ?)
Last of all, if people don't want to spend 35 bucks on a game that isn't easy mode with self healing and the general linear gaming experience you get offered these days ... well it's not really UWE's fault that there are so many idiots :P
I don't see the point arguing about that price tag at all, maybe we should lock this, because their buisness is none of ours ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PC gamers are considered about what they spent their money on...
And like i said: People who buy the game on reputation allready bought it, that's not a customer base you suddenly gonna touch. Most of them allready have it.
And borderlands did have a massive ad campaign, tv spots and a well known and established dev studio and publisher behind it. Also the concept of "diablo with guns" it easier to understand and more mass appealing than "counter strike with starcraft" because RTS games are still considered a niche. It also had decent reviews to back it up and nowadays reviews drive sales more than anything else...
Just take a look at blacklight tango down, it's not a complete indie game, yet it comes at a very low price but still offers much content, no SP tho.
Reviewers still raped that game in reviews because they expect AAA quality and instant gratification gameplay, if a game can't deliver on that in their eyes and ontop of that has a "high pricetag" (high in terms of what's considered normal for indie games) they will just shred it to pieces in their review.
Too many people here are too blinded by their UWE following to see this situation from a view that doesn't inolve years of nice memories with NS1 and nice dev-fan interaction between UWE and us. I would pay $60 for NS2 no problem, the problem is that i'm not joe-regular customer who never heard of NS or UWE before and never played an RTS game before because they just don't appeal to him.
Joe regular customer is gonna have an hard time convincing himself to spend that kind of money on an unknown IP, from an unknown dev, without a big publisher backing it and with a "new" game genre. Too many "unknowns" in there to make it an easy purchase at that price point.
Exactly what I was going to say, lets face its on Steam a high proportion of sales are going to be during sales, so $30 or less probably.
Yeah you might be right, I'm talking maybe too much subjective from the fanboy point of view, but I'm sure they have connections* to the right people and I'm sure their angel investors are going to help.
* by connections I mean they have friends (real ones, not money related) in the right places, who can help spreading the word.
Also I doubt that anyone who is going to watch Youtube replays of the alpha is going to come here and buy it, the higher price tag is maybe for those NS1 players that didn't want to spend money on NS2 so early, but are now motivated, since it's getting released.
I doubt that the Alpha will attract any complete new players ... thats for v1.0 imho.
Regarding the pricing I think it's too steep definitely. For me personally it isn't, but thats not the point. Too many players are just going by their own opinion, remember your the ones who visit the NS2 forums months and months before its release. Standard consumers coming along who see the game pop up on Steam and see $35 arn't going to impulse drop that kinda cash on it.
Why didn't you buy it when it <i>was</i> $19.99?