remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1769048:date=Apr 28 2010, 05:32 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 28 2010, 05:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought about that, but there is chance that some levels won't have 5 hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That doesn't matter. Hives can be destroyed and rebuilt. I also don't see a problem with an achievement that can only be accomplished on certain levels.
If the "Legend of Hellabean"(earlier post) achievement is added, I will personally donate $100 to Unknownworlds via Paypal. Please email me for paypal information.
Here is the youtube video of the Legendary Act, featuring the Legend himself, Hellabean:
This act shook the foundation of the competitive community and will be known for many years to come. I assure you that if this is put in, your sales of NS2 to the competitive community of old will skyrocket.
<!--quoteo(post=1769061:date=Apr 28 2010, 08:29 PM:name=Milo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Milo @ Apr 28 2010, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To Flayra or Whom it may concern,
If the "Legend of Hellabean"(earlier post) achievement is added, I will personally donate $100 to Unknownworlds via Paypal. Please email me for paypal information.
Here is the youtube video of the Legendary Act, featuring the Legend himself, Hellabean:
This act shook the foundation of the competitive community and will be known for many years to come. I assure you that if this is put in, your sales of NS2 to the competitive community of old will skyrocket.
<!--quoteo(post=1769061:date=Apr 28 2010, 08:29 PM:name=Milo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Milo @ Apr 28 2010, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To Flayra or Whom it may concern,
If the "Legend of Hellabean"(earlier post) achievement is added, I will personally donate $100 to Unknownworlds via Paypal. Please email me for paypal information.
Here is the youtube video of the Legendary Act, featuring the Legend himself, Hellabean:
This act shook the foundation of the competitive community and will be known for many years to come. I assure you that if this is put in, your sales of NS2 to the competitive community of old will skyrocket.
Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a member of the Reflect team that was blown up by Hellabean in that match, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. This achievement will make an excellent addition as it takes skill to be so bad as to kill your own fade along with a teammate lerk and fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1768971:date=Apr 28 2010, 12:22 PM:name=Aezay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aezay @ Apr 28 2010, 12:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could someone explain the point of achievements to me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As by dozens of threads earlier, no one can because they're utterly useless and stupid. If they are interesting then they necessarily detract from gameplay (like "kill an onos with a knife while solo") and if they do not detract from gameplay then they are necessarily inane and useless (like "start the game" or "play as a class at least once"). <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Tirade removed. You made your point, no need to spew hate all over the floor - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1769066:date=Apr 29 2010, 03:00 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Apr 29 2010, 03:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As by dozens of threads earlier, no one can because they're utterly useless and stupid. If they are interesting then they necessarily detract from gameplay (like "kill an onos with a knife while solo") and if they do not detract from gameplay then they are necessarily inane and useless (like "start the game" or "play as a class at least once").<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But they do add market value to the product. Serious competitive players will find no value in achievements and therefore wont go out of there way to get them, but the average gamer might, and might end up purchasing the game if he looks at the side of the box and says "OOOH ACHIEVEMENTS."
Bottom line is, as long as theyre sensible, theres no harm in putting in achievements. Especially if they involve certain legends.
<!--quoteo(post=1769069:date=Apr 29 2010, 03:15 AM:name=Milo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Milo @ Apr 29 2010, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But they do add market value to the product. Serious competitive players will find no value in achievements and therefore wont go out of there way to get them, but the average gamer might, and might end up purchasing the game if he looks at the side of the box and says "OOOH ACHIEVEMENTS."
Bottom line is, as long as theyre sensible, theres no harm in putting in achievements. Especially if they involve certain legends.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS is a team based game. the only reason it has such a following and base is that all the gamers are similar minded and like the team gameplay.
if the 'average gamer' is playing and trying to get his 20 headshots, or whateva, all he is doing is ###### the team gameplay aspect for everyone else as he sits in the corner waiting...
even 'sensible' achievements like, kill a skulk, can stuff the game if people run around looking for them where they should be building or welding etc..
lol all thanks for xbox telling us that we completed a level once in game and another time from the xbox network itself. I know the first mod warfare had that but some unlocks(cheats) with it and some other games im guessing.
<!--quoteo(post=1769072:date=Apr 29 2010, 04:35 AM:name=fex905)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fex905 @ Apr 29 2010, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol all thanks for xbox telling us that we completed a level once in game and another time from the xbox network itself. I know the first mod warfare had that but some unlocks(cheats) with it and some other games im guessing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
"Rookie" - Win 5 games as Marine "Hatchling" - Win 5 games as Alien
"Resource Hog" - Accumulate a total of 10000 resources as both Aliens and Marines.
An update to my old one: "This is my Hive. There are many like it, but this one is mine." - Build a Hive.
"With friends like these..." - Play a game with 5 friends on the same team. "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer." - Play a game with at least one friend on the same team, and two more on the other.
<!--quoteo(post=1769070:date=Apr 29 2010, 03:29 AM:name=whocareswc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (whocareswc @ Apr 29 2010, 03:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS is a team based game. the only reason it has such a following and base is that all the gamers are similar minded and like the team gameplay.
if the 'average gamer' is playing and trying to get his 20 headshots, or whateva, all he is doing is ###### the team gameplay aspect for everyone else as he sits in the corner waiting...
even 'sensible' achievements like, kill a skulk, can stuff the game if people run around looking for them where they should be building or welding etc..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then have welding and building achievements? Lol? Thats what I mean by sensible.
<!--quoteo(post=1769077:date=Apr 28 2010, 11:43 PM:name=Milo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Milo @ Apr 28 2010, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then have welding and building achievements? Lol? Thats what I mean by sensible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not sensible and it's frustrating that people don't seem to read or think before they suggest because we covered this in the past 10 threads. Weld achievements will result in weld monkeys covering your back and build humping in base while teamplayers are trying to take down the hive. And these threads always end up the same: "oh what about innocent crap like X" "Well you see X will be abused by Y, not so innocent" "Oh I didn't think about that" And then we have the same thread all over again in two weeks time. It needs to stop. Read the past threads, every form of achievement has been shown to be either abusable or uselessly trivial. In every case their cruft that only attracts the wrong kind of players and ultimately takes away from the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1769085:date=Apr 29 2010, 05:41 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Apr 29 2010, 05:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not sensible and it's frustrating that people don't seem to read or think before they suggest because we covered this in the past 10 threads. Weld achievements will result in weld monkeys covering your back and build humping in base while teamplayers are trying to take down the hive. And these threads always end up the same: "oh what about innocent crap like X" "Well you see X will be abused by Y, not so innocent" "Oh I didn't think about that" And then we have the same thread all over again in two weeks time. It needs to stop. Read the past threads, every form of achievement has been shown to be either abusable or uselessly trivial. In every case their cruft that only attracts the wrong kind of players and ultimately takes away from the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem very bitter. There are gonna be bad people who play this game and do idiotic stuff. NS1 has proven that already.
Adding achievements adds an element of challenge and fun for certain gamers, which will net Unknownworlds more profit. Don't like all the bad players? Go scrim.
I come from the same world as you and understand your viewpoint. Yes I concur it would be great if every commander would drop a med within a second instead of sayin "HUH WHERE ARE YA?" or a gorge actually building needed 1st hive MCS instead of random oc walls.
But its not gonna happen. Idiots existed before the thought of achievements, and they'll exist after. Having or not having achievements will not change that.
God forbid we have ANY sort of novelty that attracts more players to this game.
I wasn't the first time around, but by the tenth thread, yes I am bitter. Bitter that we're even contemplating rolling out the welcome mat for poor teamwork. We've already been over the "idiots will be idiots" and while true, it doesn't justify giving one more reason for an idiot to be an idiot. Our goal shouldn't be to simply expand the playerbase, but rather to build on the kind of teamwork and community that NS cultivated. #nspug would never have existed if we didn't have a good community to start with; and while we're all frustrated at pubs' wall of lame gorges or tardy comms, at least you know their goal lies <b>within</b> the game and not with some meta-game BS.
Sly slyder - ride a gorge while he does a belly slide Nymphomaniac - Squish, stomp or kill one hundred nymphs Cosmic Paradox - blink through a blinking fade Gorgestock! - have only gorges on a team of greater than 6 players, and have them all at the same hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1769085:date=Apr 29 2010, 03:41 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Apr 29 2010, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not sensible and it's frustrating that people don't seem to read or think before they suggest because we covered this in the past 10 threads. Weld achievements will result in weld monkeys covering your back and build humping in base while teamplayers are trying to take down the hive. And these threads always end up the same: "oh what about innocent crap like X" "Well you see X will be abused by Y, not so innocent" "Oh I didn't think about that" And then we have the same thread all over again in two weeks time. It needs to stop. Read the past threads, every form of achievement has been shown to be either abusable or uselessly trivial. In every case their cruft that only attracts the wrong kind of players and ultimately takes away from the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do I have to say it again? Tin foil hat. I have played plenty of online multiplayer games with achievements and it didn't ruin the game, and it wasn't the end of the world. Stop being so freaking cynical and bitter. If some people get enjoyment out of "Achievement - Winning 5 rounds as marine!" who are you to stop them? Just because you see that as trivial doesn't mean someone else might get something out of it. And for the record, and don't give a damn about them but I know plenty of people do. Well constructed achievements are a good idea and designing them with griefing in mind is a good idea (as in, design them to minimise grief that it could cause).
I seriously don't see the link between the game working, achievements, and then end of the world.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Don't fan the flames - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
also i hope they have a put a score rating ( ie k:d ratio ) that is modified by listening to the commander .. so you gget 1 point for killing but also 1 point for going where the commander says, or building a building.
cos too many people care about the k:d ratio.. but when you are at the top of the table with a 1:4 k:d ratio people know your busting your ass for the team. imo
If you're this concerned about teamwork and good gameplay, you should already be playing with clans in scrims and matches, thus achievement hunters wouldn't affect you. If you're looking for teamwork and good gameplay in a standard public server, you might as well hijack a space rocket and look for civilization out in the rest of the universe, as there will always be human error as well as humans out there determined to do nothing but piss you off.
And out of the hundreds hours I've put into L4D, I've never seen people trying to pistol whip tanks or cr0wn a witch. Besides, cr0wning a witch is easier to do in single player since you don't have enemy zombies trying to pull you into the witch. I know just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But I do believe you are blowing things out of proportion because you should either be playing on "professional" servers or you really like torturing yourself on public servers knowing there are idiots out there.
This being said, I welcome achievements, but if they aren't there, I won't lose sleep.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Removed a completely unrelated flame. - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Also, there isn't really a strong connection between achievements in a game and the game failing. The examples you use are irrelevant as proof to how achievements ruin games. TF2 may have some idle servers, but there are also many active ones (maybe you need to play at times other than 5 am?). L4D2 is plagued by a completely different problem that has little to do with achievements.
Personally I don't care too much about them, and initially thought that they were kind of a stupid innovation meant to appeal to the OCD type of player who spends the extra time to complete every aspect of a game. If they are left out of NS2 I won't care, but if they get put in I won't take time to get them - beyond the ones I get accidentally. Most probably fall into this category. Those who detriment the team to get achievements will just fall into that "rambo" type of player that we saw in NS1. We had ways of dealing with them then, and we'll have ways of dealing with them now. However, if an achievement helps generally indicate to players certain humorous or skillful ways to play the game, I'm OK with that.
<!--quoteo(post=1769346:date=Apr 30 2010, 07:18 PM:name=Crazyperson4200)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crazyperson4200 @ Apr 30 2010, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're this concerned about teamwork and good gameplay, you should already be playing with clans in scrims and matches, thus achievement hunters wouldn't affect you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or rather, those that concerned about achievements should be playing a modified version of NS2 (or different game entirely) that suites their tastes for shallow praise; that way teamplayers won't affect their mindless achievement hunting.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Counter-flame and counter-counter-flame removed. - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> There is plenty to tie achievements to failure (not in the least as I listed) and what you define as a game failing may be some naive merit like sales or active players, but I'd rather see NS2 not fall prey to such shallow goals. Apathy and indifference towards achievements is particularly saddening because its exactly what has allowed increasingly more, and more silly, achievements to slip into games as norm. You cite the rambo as a common problem in NS, so why support even more reasons for solitary gameplay. It's a step back towards the problem, not progressing from it.
Comments
I thought about that, but there is chance that some levels won't have 5 hives.
That doesn't matter. Hives can be destroyed and rebuilt. I also don't see a problem with an achievement that can only be accomplished on certain levels.
meta-gaming has no place in NS2.
If the "Legend of Hellabean"(earlier post) achievement is added, I will personally donate $100 to Unknownworlds via Paypal. Please email me for paypal information.
Here is the youtube video of the Legendary Act, featuring the Legend himself, Hellabean:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8FOWF6su0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8FOWF6su0</a>
This act shook the foundation of the competitive community and will be known for many years to come. I assure you that if this is put in, your sales of NS2 to the competitive community of old will skyrocket.
Thank you.
If the "Legend of Hellabean"(earlier post) achievement is added, I will personally donate $100 to Unknownworlds via Paypal. Please email me for paypal information.
Here is the youtube video of the Legendary Act, featuring the Legend himself, Hellabean:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8FOWF6su0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8FOWF6su0</a>
This act shook the foundation of the competitive community and will be known for many years to come. I assure you that if this is put in, your sales of NS2 to the competitive community of old will skyrocket.
Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this motion.
If the "Legend of Hellabean"(earlier post) achievement is added, I will personally donate $100 to Unknownworlds via Paypal. Please email me for paypal information.
Here is the youtube video of the Legendary Act, featuring the Legend himself, Hellabean:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8FOWF6su0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8FOWF6su0</a>
This act shook the foundation of the competitive community and will be known for many years to come. I assure you that if this is put in, your sales of NS2 to the competitive community of old will skyrocket.
Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a member of the Reflect team that was blown up by Hellabean in that match, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. This achievement will make an excellent addition as it takes skill to be so bad as to kill your own fade along with a teammate lerk and fade.
As by dozens of threads earlier, no one can because they're utterly useless and stupid. If they are interesting then they necessarily detract from gameplay (like "kill an onos with a knife while solo") and if they do not detract from gameplay then they are necessarily inane and useless (like "start the game" or "play as a class at least once"). <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Tirade removed. You made your point, no need to spew hate all over the floor - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Mines for Deimos Plax - Refuse to give your marines mines
But they do add market value to the product. Serious competitive players will find no value in achievements and therefore wont go out of there way to get them, but the average gamer might, and might end up purchasing the game if he looks at the side of the box and says "OOOH ACHIEVEMENTS."
Bottom line is, as long as theyre sensible, theres no harm in putting in achievements. Especially if they involve certain legends.
Bottom line is, as long as theyre sensible, theres no harm in putting in achievements. Especially if they involve certain legends.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS is a team based game. the only reason it has such a following and base is that all the gamers are similar minded and like the team gameplay.
if the 'average gamer' is playing and trying to get his 20 headshots, or whateva, all he is doing is ###### the team gameplay aspect for everyone else as he sits in the corner waiting...
even 'sensible' achievements like, kill a skulk, can stuff the game if people run around looking for them where they should be building or welding etc..
que?
"Hatchling" - Win 5 games as Alien
"Resource Hog" - Accumulate a total of 10000 resources as both Aliens and Marines.
An update to my old one:
"This is my Hive. There are many like it, but this one is mine." - Build a Hive.
"With friends like these..." - Play a game with 5 friends on the same team.
"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer." - Play a game with at least one friend on the same team, and two more on the other.
if the 'average gamer' is playing and trying to get his 20 headshots, or whateva, all he is doing is ###### the team gameplay aspect for everyone else as he sits in the corner waiting...
even 'sensible' achievements like, kill a skulk, can stuff the game if people run around looking for them where they should be building or welding etc..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then have welding and building achievements? Lol? Thats what I mean by sensible.
It's not sensible and it's frustrating that people don't seem to read or think before they suggest because we covered this in the past 10 threads. Weld achievements will result in weld monkeys covering your back and build humping in base while teamplayers are trying to take down the hive. And these threads always end up the same:
"oh what about innocent crap like X"
"Well you see X will be abused by Y, not so innocent"
"Oh I didn't think about that"
And then we have the same thread all over again in two weeks time. It needs to stop. Read the past threads, every form of achievement has been shown to be either abusable or uselessly trivial. In every case their cruft that only attracts the wrong kind of players and ultimately takes away from the game.
"oh what about innocent crap like X"
"Well you see X will be abused by Y, not so innocent"
"Oh I didn't think about that"
And then we have the same thread all over again in two weeks time. It needs to stop. Read the past threads, every form of achievement has been shown to be either abusable or uselessly trivial. In every case their cruft that only attracts the wrong kind of players and ultimately takes away from the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem very bitter. There are gonna be bad people who play this game and do idiotic stuff. NS1 has proven that already.
Adding achievements adds an element of challenge and fun for certain gamers, which will net Unknownworlds more profit. Don't like all the bad players? Go scrim.
I come from the same world as you and understand your viewpoint. Yes I concur it would be great if every commander would drop a med within a second instead of sayin "HUH WHERE ARE YA?" or a gorge actually building needed 1st hive MCS instead of random oc walls.
But its not gonna happen. Idiots existed before the thought of achievements, and they'll exist after. Having or not having achievements will not change that.
God forbid we have ANY sort of novelty that attracts more players to this game.
Nymphomaniac - Squish, stomp or kill one hundred nymphs
Cosmic Paradox - blink through a blinking fade
Gorgestock! - have only gorges on a team of greater than 6 players, and have them all at the same hive.
"oh what about innocent crap like X"
"Well you see X will be abused by Y, not so innocent"
"Oh I didn't think about that"
And then we have the same thread all over again in two weeks time. It needs to stop. Read the past threads, every form of achievement has been shown to be either abusable or uselessly trivial. In every case their cruft that only attracts the wrong kind of players and ultimately takes away from the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do I have to say it again? Tin foil hat. I have played plenty of online multiplayer games with achievements and it didn't ruin the game, and it wasn't the end of the world. Stop being so freaking cynical and bitter. If some people get enjoyment out of "Achievement - Winning 5 rounds as marine!" who are you to stop them? Just because you see that as trivial doesn't mean someone else might get something out of it. And for the record, and don't give a damn about them but I know plenty of people do. Well constructed achievements are a good idea and designing them with griefing in mind is a good idea (as in, design them to minimise grief that it could cause).
I seriously don't see the link between the game working, achievements, and then end of the world.
also i hope they have a put a score rating ( ie k:d ratio ) that is modified by listening to the commander .. so you gget 1 point for killing but also 1 point for going where the commander says, or building a building.
cos too many people care about the k:d ratio.. but when you are at the top of the table with a 1:4 k:d ratio people know your busting your ass for the team. imo
And out of the hundreds hours I've put into L4D, I've never seen people trying to pistol whip tanks or cr0wn a witch. Besides, cr0wning a witch is easier to do in single player since you don't have enemy zombies trying to pull you into the witch. I know just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But I do believe you are blowing things out of proportion because you should either be playing on "professional" servers or you really like torturing yourself on public servers knowing there are idiots out there.
This being said, I welcome achievements, but if they aren't there, I won't lose sleep.
Also, there isn't really a strong connection between achievements in a game and the game failing. The examples you use are irrelevant as proof to how achievements ruin games. TF2 may have some idle servers, but there are also many active ones (maybe you need to play at times other than 5 am?). L4D2 is plagued by a completely different problem that has little to do with achievements.
Personally I don't care too much about them, and initially thought that they were kind of a stupid innovation meant to appeal to the OCD type of player who spends the extra time to complete every aspect of a game. If they are left out of NS2 I won't care, but if they get put in I won't take time to get them - beyond the ones I get accidentally. Most probably fall into this category. Those who detriment the team to get achievements will just fall into that "rambo" type of player that we saw in NS1. We had ways of dealing with them then, and we'll have ways of dealing with them now. However, if an achievement helps generally indicate to players certain humorous or skillful ways to play the game, I'm OK with that.
Or rather, those that concerned about achievements should be playing a modified version of NS2 (or different game entirely) that suites their tastes for shallow praise; that way teamplayers won't affect their mindless achievement hunting.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Counter-flame and counter-counter-flame removed. - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
There is plenty to tie achievements to failure (not in the least as I listed) and what you define as a game failing may be some naive merit like sales or active players, but I'd rather see NS2 not fall prey to such shallow goals. Apathy and indifference towards achievements is particularly saddening because its exactly what has allowed increasingly more, and more silly, achievements to slip into games as norm. You cite the rambo as a common problem in NS, so why support even more reasons for solitary gameplay. It's a step back towards the problem, not progressing from it.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->And again. - JazzX<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->