feature complete but still rather incomplete. functionality could significantly change with usability testing.
general to-do list: pipes, wires, etc. stairs and multiple exits elevator (access and control the top) low-budget skybox optimize lights / tweak shadows start on the next area
Heh, as soon as I looked at it it reminded me of Jurassic Park 3 in the pteranodon aviary with the bridge in the mist.. So yeah definitely lerk heaven :D
I'm looking forward to seeing how these kind of areas playout with the aliens being to access parts humans can't or whether people will come up with suitable ways of making it off limits for even the sneakiest skulks.
<!--quoteo(post=1757876:date=Mar 7 2010, 01:39 PM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Mar 7 2010, 01:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Finally decided to actually play with the editor myself this weekend... thought I'd see if spark can do bendy corridors, answer is... not really.
might actually have a go at a proper room (and not use pure white lights).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should rotate the textures to make them align together... That would make it look way better!
<img src="http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6415/ns2size1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I was just messing around and desided to compare the sizes of the three.
<!--quoteo(post=1757876:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:39 PM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Mar 7 2010, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Finally decided to actually play with the editor myself this weekend... thought I'd see if spark can do bendy corridors, answer is... not really.
might actually have a go at a proper room (and not use pure white lights).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't use textures with lines in them, use a 'tileless' texture for the floor and ceiling. Which is to say use one that you can't see the tiles on, one you don't have to rotate.
Alternatively, if spark lets you skew the textures, consider doing that. Or you could put props over the texture seams to hide them, hiding things is a fairly staple practise.
I think you could do that hallway easy with some creative construction approaches.
Here are some WIP screens of an NS2 map I've been working on called <b><i>ns_enigma</i></b>:
First up here's two screens of the mess hall. I'm surprised nobody else made one yet. I'm kinda struggling making the light through the blinds look good. I still have to finish the "kitchen" on the right, which can be used as cover/shortcut for skulks. <img src="http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8813/ns2enigmamesshall1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I'm fiddling with the lighting a lot because I know how much it matters. Anyway, on the right of the screen shot below you can see an emergency escape route. In a high tech facility you'd expect to have one in every room. <img src="http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2368/ns2enigmamesshall2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Secondly here's an area called Y-data. It's called that way because it's shaped like a Y and has a few terminals. :P Or it might be a reference to Xenosaga, which I'm a huge fan of. <img src="http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6922/ns2enigmaydata.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
As for the map layout and how these areas will fit together: I have a vague idea in my head. I want to wait until the engine test is out to fully get started making my map.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Ah so much work has gone into the floor, yet the ceiling is just a plaint texture :P I like the look though!
Also try and put the spotlights behind those blinds back a little bit furthet, that is if you have the located close to the blinds. I think it would then cast the shadow you'd want in there! I also found the lack of mess halls, showers, toilets (even just a door) disturbing on most maps... Well there are some NS1 maps that have mess halls!
Kouji San, I see you're also still awake at this late (or early?) hour. :P
Yeah, I agree the ceiling looks boring the way it is now. I want the mess hall to look like a futuristic diner <a href="http://photos.igougo.com/images/p264846-Kuhului_Island_of_Maui_Hawaii-Rubys_Diner_front_view_of_restaurant.jpg" target="_blank">sorta like this</a>. Like you said, NS1 has mess halls! People can make more than caves/hallways with the art assets we have now. xD Anyway, I'll probably work on it more tomorrow. Thanks!
Like with any editor once you get to grips with it, learn it, use it more, bang, you find that things become a lot easier.
Tutorial videos and Mendasps 'time lapse' videos can be found at <a href="http://www.rss2html.com/public/rss2html.php?TEMPLATE=template-3-2-3.htm&XMLFILE=http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/base/videos/-/sparkmapping?client=ytapi-youtube-browse&v=2" target="_blank">http://www.rss2html.com/public/rss2html.ph...-browse&v=2</a> (Taken from <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/tutorials" target="_blank">http://www.naturalselection2.com/tutorials</a> incase that link doesn't work)
Alternatively 'sparkmapping' in youtube shows all the tutorials in one way or another if you search for them and quite a few user created videos of their own levels.
#nsmapping is back in Gamesurge if you fancy trying to liven things up a bit and get ideas going or need/want to offer help in using the editor.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1758243:date=Mar 9 2010, 05:20 AM:name=UncleRay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ Mar 9 2010, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would anyone be able to tell me just HOW to use this new mapping program? Hammer was pretty easy to conquer, but this is just rediculous!
Kouji, it's your old pal, BlackPlague :]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn how long has it been, good to see people getting back as well :P There are some awesome video tutorials on Spark on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealFlayra" target="_blank">Charlie's Youtube Channel</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/mendasp" target="_blank">Mendasp</a> also did a few timelapse video's showing on how the mapping process
ACK! I got outposted by a few hours already, how'd this happen!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1758244:date=Mar 9 2010, 05:21 AM:name=ChuckstarNL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChuckstarNL @ Mar 9 2010, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Kouji San, I see you're also still awake at this late (or early?) hour. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey guys. I wound up messing around with SE, and what I found that it's MUCH easier than Hammer. Developing maps on this will be much easier than said than done. Of course, given that the implementation of rocks, sounds, architecture, and other things will not be fun easy.
Thaldarin, nice to see you again! We should get a team together, and see if we can re-create the old 1.0 ns_hera... with the old hallway. Yes, THAT hallway :D
Kouji, thanks for the tip!
EDIT:
I must say, this new program is pretty damn amazing. It's very quick, easy, and very correct. The only problem I've come to is creating another "wall" or "ceiling" just to be sure leaks don't happen. But then again, I'm not too savvy on how to re-create the same wall with out copy pasting just like in the old manual.
I guess as I progress, I'll create a manual for this new thing. It's like driving a Ferrari Enzo in outer space, with out any air.
My notes on the editor:
Clean Quick Processor savvy Controls and development tools are easily placed etiquette rendering programs initially developed
All in all, I know this isn't the full version, however, this is MUCH better than the Hammer editor. I guess I'm no longer Thor... God of the Hammer :[ But for fun sake, I am Spark... the all creating!
<!--quoteo(post=1758335:date=Mar 9 2010, 07:06 PM:name=UncleRay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ Mar 9 2010, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758335"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only problem I've come to is creating another "wall" or "ceiling" just to be sure leaks don't happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Spark has no leaks. :p
<!--quoteo(post=1758336:date=Mar 9 2010, 11:19 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Mar 9 2010, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spark has no leaks. :p
But yeah, it's a damn neat tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah but when you've used Hammer for 6+ years, and it's a second nature thing to you, you're always fixing EVERYTHING. Corners here, models there, lights here, lights there, spots here, heights, vertexes... a WHOLE lot of stuff. No leaks? Hmmm..... someone call a plumber.
<!--quoteo(post=1758341:date=Mar 9 2010, 07:33 PM:name=UncleRay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ Mar 9 2010, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah but when you've used Hammer for 6+ years, and it's a second nature thing to you, you're always fixing EVERYTHING. Corners here, models there, lights here, lights there, spots here, heights, vertexes... a WHOLE lot of stuff. No leaks? Hmmm..... someone call a plumber.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hah. I can sympathise with that...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1758341:date=Mar 9 2010, 06:33 PM:name=UncleRay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ Mar 9 2010, 06:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah but when you've used Hammer for 6+ years, and it's a second nature thing to you, you're always fixing EVERYTHING. Corners here, models there, lights here, lights there, spots here, heights, vertexes... a WHOLE lot of stuff. No leaks? Hmmm..... someone call a plumber.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, remember the larger maps and the awesome problems it had with the clipping hull?
OH! I HATED those... reading EVERY line in the log trying to figure out where the problem was. Then you'd go back, input the coordinates and fix everything. Even the "fix errors" button didn't work. Hopefully this time this won't be the case :D
Does anyone remember the VERTEX MONSTER? Only way to make rocks looks like rocks was to polymorph EVERY square into a triangle, copy paste, copy paste, and create everything from scratch? I remember those good ol' days :]... i hated the good ol' days >_<
Comments
<img src="http://i49.tinypic.com/f3vpx.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
feature complete but still rather incomplete. functionality could significantly change with usability testing.
general to-do list: pipes, wires, etc.
stairs and multiple exits
elevator (access and control the top)
low-budget skybox
optimize lights / tweak shadows
start on the next area
1 hour 47 minutes of design (total)
<a href="http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2673/nsq62.jpg" target="_blank">http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2673/nsq62.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great lighting Pipi. Looking nice.
<img src="http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6696/resrm2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1629/resrm1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm looking forward to seeing how these kind of areas playout with the aliens being to access parts humans can't or whether people will come up with suitable ways of making it off limits for even the sneakiest skulks.
<a href="http://www.spoonofdeath.com/geeky/spark/bendycorridor.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.spoonofdeath.com/geeky/spark/bendycorridor_tn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
might actually have a go at a proper room (and not use pure white lights).
add more lighting on the catwalks and it'll be more aesthetically pleasing
<a href="http://www.spoonofdeath.com/geeky/spark/bendycorridor.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.spoonofdeath.com/geeky/spark/bendycorridor_tn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
might actually have a go at a proper room (and not use pure white lights).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should rotate the textures to make them align together... That would make it look way better!
<img src="http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6415/ns2size1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I was just messing around and desided to compare the sizes of the three.
<a href="http://www.spoonofdeath.com/geeky/spark/bendycorridor.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.spoonofdeath.com/geeky/spark/bendycorridor_tn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
might actually have a go at a proper room (and not use pure white lights).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't use textures with lines in them, use a 'tileless' texture for the floor and ceiling. Which is to say use one that you can't see the tiles on, one you don't have to rotate.
Alternatively, if spark lets you skew the textures, consider doing that. Or you could put props over the texture seams to hide them, hiding things is a fairly staple practise.
I think you could do that hallway easy with some creative construction approaches.
First up here's two screens of the mess hall. I'm surprised nobody else made one yet. I'm kinda struggling making the light through the blinds look good. I still have to finish the "kitchen" on the right, which can be used as cover/shortcut for skulks.
<img src="http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8813/ns2enigmamesshall1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm fiddling with the lighting a lot because I know how much it matters. Anyway, on the right of the screen shot below you can see an emergency escape route. In a high tech facility you'd expect to have one in every room.
<img src="http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2368/ns2enigmamesshall2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Secondly here's an area called Y-data. It's called that way because it's shaped like a Y and has a few terminals. :P Or it might be a reference to Xenosaga, which I'm a huge fan of.
<img src="http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6922/ns2enigmaydata.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
As for the map layout and how these areas will fit together: I have a vague idea in my head. I want to wait until the engine test is out to fully get started making my map.
Also try and put the spotlights behind those blinds back a little bit furthet, that is if you have the located close to the blinds. I think it would then cast the shadow you'd want in there! I also found the lack of mess halls, showers, toilets (even just a door) disturbing on most maps... Well there are some NS1 maps that have mess halls!
Kouji, it's your old pal, BlackPlague :]
Kouji, it's your old pal, BlackPlague :]
Yeah, I agree the ceiling looks boring the way it is now. I want the mess hall to look like a futuristic diner <a href="http://photos.igougo.com/images/p264846-Kuhului_Island_of_Maui_Hawaii-Rubys_Diner_front_view_of_restaurant.jpg" target="_blank">sorta like this</a>. Like you said, NS1 has mess halls! People can make more than caves/hallways with the art assets we have now. xD Anyway, I'll probably work on it more tomorrow. Thanks!
Like with any editor once you get to grips with it, learn it, use it more, bang, you find that things become a lot easier.
Tutorial videos and Mendasps 'time lapse' videos can be found at <a href="http://www.rss2html.com/public/rss2html.php?TEMPLATE=template-3-2-3.htm&XMLFILE=http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/base/videos/-/sparkmapping?client=ytapi-youtube-browse&v=2" target="_blank">http://www.rss2html.com/public/rss2html.ph...-browse&v=2</a> (Taken from <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/tutorials" target="_blank">http://www.naturalselection2.com/tutorials</a> incase that link doesn't work)
Alternatively 'sparkmapping' in youtube shows all the tutorials in one way or another if you search for them and quite a few user created videos of their own levels.
#nsmapping is back in Gamesurge if you fancy trying to liven things up a bit and get ideas going or need/want to offer help in using the editor.
Kouji, it's your old pal, BlackPlague :]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn how long has it been, good to see people getting back as well :P There are some awesome video tutorials on Spark on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealFlayra" target="_blank">Charlie's Youtube Channel</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/mendasp" target="_blank">Mendasp</a> also did a few timelapse video's showing on how the mapping process
ACK! I got outposted by a few hours already, how'd this happen!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1758244:date=Mar 9 2010, 05:21 AM:name=ChuckstarNL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChuckstarNL @ Mar 9 2010, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Kouji San, I see you're also still awake at this late (or early?) hour. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was up before the sun, darkness followed O.O
To make TF2 Blu Scout cry?
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o9PgLm__i7w"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o9PgLm__i7w" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9PgLm__i7w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9PgLm__i7w</a></div>
It's for color correcting and such, making the colors in a scene the way you want them too look. Heck it could even make things black and white :P
Thaldarin, nice to see you again! We should get a team together, and see if we can re-create the old 1.0 ns_hera... with the old hallway. Yes, THAT hallway :D
Kouji, thanks for the tip!
EDIT:
I must say, this new program is pretty damn amazing. It's very quick, easy, and very correct. The only problem I've come to is creating another "wall" or "ceiling" just to be sure leaks don't happen. But then again, I'm not too savvy on how to re-create the same wall with out copy pasting just like in the old manual.
I guess as I progress, I'll create a manual for this new thing. It's like driving a Ferrari Enzo in outer space, with out any air.
My notes on the editor:
Clean
Quick
Processor savvy
Controls and development tools are easily placed
etiquette rendering programs initially developed
All in all, I know this isn't the full version, however, this is MUCH better than the Hammer editor. I guess I'm no longer Thor... God of the Hammer :[ But for fun sake, I am Spark... the all creating!
Spark has no leaks. :p
But yeah, it's a damn neat tool.
But yeah, it's a damn neat tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah but when you've used Hammer for 6+ years, and it's a second nature thing to you, you're always fixing EVERYTHING. Corners here, models there, lights here, lights there, spots here, heights, vertexes... a WHOLE lot of stuff. No leaks? Hmmm..... someone call a plumber.
Hah. I can sympathise with that...
Heh, remember the larger maps and the awesome problems it had with the clipping hull?
OH! I HATED those... reading EVERY line in the log trying to figure out where the problem was. Then you'd go back, input the coordinates and fix everything. Even the "fix errors" button didn't work. Hopefully this time this won't be the case :D
Does anyone remember the VERTEX MONSTER? Only way to make rocks looks like rocks was to polymorph EVERY square into a triangle, copy paste, copy paste, and create everything from scratch? I remember those good ol' days :]... i hated the good ol' days >_<