Bleeding
Battle-Bug
Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
<div class="IPBDescription">He's got 2hp left... BLEED!</div>Ever get an enemy down to a ridiculously low amount of health? Want a chance that it will die? Here's a simple option: Let them bleed.
<b>Suggestion #1: Rate of Bleeding</b>
The first possibility is that it is directly proportional to the amount of damage taken. Example: A skulk takes 50% damage (hp) and bleeds 10% life over 10 seconds starting with 2hp/second. The other possibility is to have the amount of bleeding proportional to the number of hitboxes hit (I'm assuming there's more than one). So, there will be more bleeding if three of your hitboxes are hit as opposed to one.
<b>Suggestion #2: Stopping the Bleeding</b>
Aliens will slowly stop bleeding over time as they heal. The hive, regeneration, healspray, and metabolize speed up the blood clotting. Marines will rely on teamwork for bandaging. Medpacks, the armory, and "nanites" might aid in this.
<b>Limitations:</b>
There shouldn't be any bleeding for certain attacks, such as spores or electrification. Armor damage doesn't contribute. Bleeding shouldn't do major damage.
<b>Result:</b>
A system that can reward a defeated player (for a good fight) and punish a winning player (for not being much better than the defeated) when the battle was <i>very </i>close to a draw... or it can kill an enemy who is running away from battle with low hp. It also helps to show the difference between alien self-reliance and marine teamwork.
I wouldn't think that this would take much time or effort to code.
Any alternate suggestions?
Here's a reference thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=100615" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=100615</a>
<b>Suggestion #1: Rate of Bleeding</b>
The first possibility is that it is directly proportional to the amount of damage taken. Example: A skulk takes 50% damage (hp) and bleeds 10% life over 10 seconds starting with 2hp/second. The other possibility is to have the amount of bleeding proportional to the number of hitboxes hit (I'm assuming there's more than one). So, there will be more bleeding if three of your hitboxes are hit as opposed to one.
<b>Suggestion #2: Stopping the Bleeding</b>
Aliens will slowly stop bleeding over time as they heal. The hive, regeneration, healspray, and metabolize speed up the blood clotting. Marines will rely on teamwork for bandaging. Medpacks, the armory, and "nanites" might aid in this.
<b>Limitations:</b>
There shouldn't be any bleeding for certain attacks, such as spores or electrification. Armor damage doesn't contribute. Bleeding shouldn't do major damage.
<b>Result:</b>
A system that can reward a defeated player (for a good fight) and punish a winning player (for not being much better than the defeated) when the battle was <i>very </i>close to a draw... or it can kill an enemy who is running away from battle with low hp. It also helps to show the difference between alien self-reliance and marine teamwork.
I wouldn't think that this would take much time or effort to code.
Any alternate suggestions?
Here's a reference thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=100615" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=100615</a>
Comments
Gameplaywise, the bleeding should stop completely for marines on immediate use of a medpack at least and maybe upon welding from another player (even if it doesn't make much sense) and for aliens, it should stop on healing from the hive or from a gorge's healspray.
Healspray is something I didn't think about but would have the same affect in stopping the bleeding as the hive or regeneration. Metabolize is another one that may have this effect. Remember that normal healing for aliens will stop the bleeding, but it will take longer.
As for marines, I believe that the welder is for armor. Any marine can bandage or patch up a wound with the E button... or something similar.
<!--quoteo(post=1754787:date=Feb 23 2010, 09:54 AM:name=ehsho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ehsho @ Feb 23 2010, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And during long turtle games either the marines or aliens(depends on aliens/marines futuristic life span) should die from old age. It's a bad idea. This reminds me of the fail that is acidic vengeance(co baddies), or the perk from cod4 multiplayer(martyrdom?) where you drop a nade on death. Rewards for failing, how nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't just for players who die. If you wound an enemy severely and he runs away, he's still losing health for a few seconds. That fade that runs away with 40hp will bleed to death if it doesn't redeem first. He ran away and is being punished for being a coward :)
I'm going to edit my first post to add these few ideas.
Bleeding should only be done if they can do it well. Every game (FPS) I have played does it horribly. It either looks like a spherical paint bucket is shooting out from the player, or the bottom of your feet become magically doesed with blood. This may not be possible because NS2 Marines are not being decapitated, just dematerialize because of Nanites.
I wasn't suggesting that we animate or render the bleeding. That's something that we can do, but I was just thinking about the hp. I'm not even sure realistic bleeding would add to the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1754784:date=Feb 23 2010, 09:33 AM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 23 2010, 09:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Result:</b>
A system that can reward a defeated player (for a good fight) and punish a winning player (for not being much better than the defeated) when the battle was <i>very </i>close to a draw... or it can kill an enemy who is running away from battle with low hp. It also helps to show the difference between alien self-reliance and marine teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
=D
It breaks with the background as there are nanites / bacteria all over a player's body, which sew cuts and open wounds (dermal as subdermal) at once.
And how do you reconcile this with regeneration? Assuming that ability is still in. Will bleeding be totally negated? Or just a slower rate of regeneration. Also, what about innate regeneration, if it does make it into NS2?
The biggest issue I have with this is that after you killed any enemy, you might still bleed to death. For me, a win is a win. If you beat the other opponent, even barely, you should still come out on top.
I do not see why we should punish the winners, and reward the losers. Kind of defeats the point of winning.
Let me reiterate that aliens heal, so the bleeding stops. The hive, regeneration, healspray, and metabolize aid in blood clotting (bleeding stops faster). They don't have to seek any of those out for the bleeding to stop. Marines continuously heal until they get a medpack or a teammate to patch them up (Edit: possibility of "nanites" auto-clotting). If that commander doesn't drop the medpack, they can bleed to death. We should also throw in there that the armory can stop the bleeding since it gives health.
<!--quoteo(post=1754836:date=Feb 23 2010, 03:15 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ Feb 23 2010, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Under no circumstances should a player be "rewarded" for losing and a player "punished" for winning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's being punished for not winning by much. It's essentially a draw with someone barely better than the other. Think of playing Chess. We aren't punishing the winner who has 90% of his pieces left, we're punishing the winner who's only got a rook, a knight, and a king. Besides, I like this idea more for punishing cowards who run away (with too little hp) instead of sticking around and making another kill before being killed.
You mean the guy who goes back to get health and save on respawn time (And his equipment), instead of running to the enemy with low health and doing near nothing?
</this thread>
Will lead to a horrible game.
Never going to happen.
I actually like it when I kill the opponent and I barely survive because I was the better one. If the same happened in reverse then I know it won't be as frustrating than it would be to bleed out the last few seconds of my life and be completely helpless but to die soon after my victim.
I'm fine with having dots or bleeding causing attacks but as a core mechanic for everyone under 5-10% HP, I don't think it has a place in NS2's game play.
0_o
I don't care. A win is a win, even if it is by the slimmest margins. Requiring the player to run back to the nearest hive or gorge or armory just slows the game down and reduces the level of feasible teamplay by restricting how far a player can venture from the nearest healing station. As far as I can tell, this idea stems from a player who would throw a temper tantrum when confronted with the fact that his opponent only had 10 hp left after a battle, and instead of thinking "If only I had parasited or put in one more bullet" says to himself "If only the game was changed such that my 'not good enough' was enough!"
This works in realistic tactical games like America's Army where anyone could heal you and prevent the bleed, but not in the NS gameplay model.
If you want a "draw" have someone come along and take out that last 10hp on the guy. Boom, teamwork. But not game element forced teamwork.
Yes.
Such a "bleeding" idea really takes away from the satisfaction of surviving against the odds, or just edging out that kill at the last second. I don't want to be punished for that. Thats silly. And I have a feeling I'm in the majority.
I can't explain how stupid it is when, for example in TF2, as a scout I jump, dodge, confuse, and out-aim the Pyro, who just sprays his mouse side to side while holding mouse 1, and yet, after killing the Pyro, I still die because I'm at 50 hp and on fire. NS doesn't need that punishment of "evening out." It doesn't need to make it that much easier to kill people in the game.
And "cowards that run away?" I don't see whats wrong with a tactical retreat, either running off to get healed, or going and hiding again to maybe get a jump on the next thing that passes by.
Overall, no thanks. Does not fit this game.
<!--quoteo(post=1754862:date=Feb 23 2010, 05:59 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ Feb 23 2010, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Requiring the player to run back to the nearest hive or gorge or armory...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this one:
<!--quoteo(post=1754867:date=Feb 23 2010, 06:36 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 23 2010, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754867"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It forcibly makes players be near a healing system of some kind...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With this:
<!--quoteo(post=1754848:date=Feb 23 2010, 04:57 PM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 23 2010, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754848"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me reiterate that aliens heal, so the bleeding stops. The hive, regeneration, healspray, and metabolize aid in blood clotting (bleeding stops faster). <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>They don't have to seek any of those out for the bleeding to stop. </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Marines continuously heal until they get a medpack or a teammate to patch them up (Edit: possibility of "nanites" auto-clotting). If that commander doesn't drop the medpack, they can bleed to death. We should also throw in there that the armory can stop the bleeding since it gives health.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not talking a huge amount of bleeding damage. I'm talking 10-20% of max health (for taking serious damage) as a maximum.
We see the bolded part. But we also see " If that commander doesn't drop the medpack, they can bleed to death." That's what people are saying "no" to.
This.
No reward for failing.
You already have a failing reward for pubber marines, because when they are ###### and don't cover you or can't aim, they get your gun after you die; or they stay in base humping all day and despite their ###### reflexes and knowledge of the game, they know how to long-crackhop-jump to a weapon dropped by the commander in miliseconds.
I can imagine players might get even more angry about this in ns2, because there they'll pay their guns with their own hard-earned money.