I'm still missing why we need this is the first place. Part of the fun in the games is that you can afford to fail, but then again when you finally succeed, the game also lets you win instead of compromising with a near draw.
Close victories are memorable and enjoyable. Close defeats mostly make you want to do that tiny bit better next time so that you can have your memorable victory. Draws just end up being indifferent if they occur regularly.
Teamwork can be forced and emphasized better by many features, including the advantage of having a teammate with you to finish the job.
<!--quoteo(post=1754880:date=Feb 23 2010, 09:17 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 23 2010, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754880"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We see the bolded part. But we also see " If that commander doesn't drop the medpack, they can bleed to death." That's what people are saying "no" to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm just throwing out some suggestions. Here's some of my other quotes:
"...possibility of "nanites" auto-clotting"
"Marines will rely on teamwork for bandaging."
The marine does not require a medpack to stop bleeding. A teammate can do this or the "nanites" could stop it (like how the aliens heal); however, there'd be more teamwork without the "nanites."
If you guys would like to add anything to my suggestion or make some alterations, go for it. It's not set in stone. Saying you like it or dislike it is one thing, but suggesting an improvement is preferred.
<!--quoteo(post=1754906:date=Feb 24 2010, 02:19 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 24 2010, 02:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm still missing why we need this is the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We don't need this. Just like we don't need more than one kind of weapon. Just like we don't need armor. This is a game enhancer.
We won't know how this will effect the game until we actually get to play it. For now this is good for the devs to see for inspiration.
<!--quoteo(post=1754928:date=Feb 24 2010, 07:19 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 24 2010, 07:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754928"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems like most of your ideas are just for the sake of having ideas rather than actually improving the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's see some of your ideas ass-jack.
I like all of Battlebug's ideas, just most of them don't apply to what most people want in NS2. These sound great, but might be best saved for an NS2 Realism mod. Keep your ideas handy, once the SDK comes out some modder might like some of these.
<!--quoteo(post=1754932:date=Feb 24 2010, 03:46 PM:name=GDWhite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GDWhite @ Feb 24 2010, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's see some of your ideas ass-jack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ideas should not be had for their own sake, simpleton. The objective is to improve the game, not just throw in mechanics because they sound cool.
...but <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107793&hl=" target="_blank">since you asked...</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like all of Battlebug's ideas, just most of them don't apply to what most people want in NS2. These sound great, but might be best saved for an NS2 Realism mod. Keep your ideas handy, once the SDK comes out some modder might like some of these.
I still love the spore-shield idea. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. For a completely different game, they might be good ideas. However, this is not the forum for a completely different game; we're here to discuss NS2 and ways to make it better.
<!--quoteo(post=1754939:date=Feb 24 2010, 10:57 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 24 2010, 10:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->we're here to discuss NS2 and ways to make it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. All of my ideas may not be 100% applicable, but I like to throw them out there to see what other players think and to give some inspiration to the devs. It doesn't hurt to make a suggestion. The worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't get used. I've got a huge list of them that I made and I appreciate the honest and logical feedback I get from everyone.
Now lets see if we can come up with some suggestions to make the bleeding idea work.
<!--quoteo(post=1754939:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:57 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 24 2010, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ideas should not be had for their own sake, simpleton. The objective is to improve the game, not just throw in mechanics because they sound cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. There is NO way any idea can be appreciated by 80% to 100% of THIS community (Mostly because the majority doesn't even know how to do anything but disagree with any idea that endorses a feature that wasn't in NS1... Funny thing is how different NS2 will be... i imagine it will be a shock to MOST of this community. The devs know this and that's the reason they are so cautious on what they reveal.
2. Because of 1, 2 is actually impossible, but nonetheless: There is NO way an idea which is appreciated by the community is guaranteed to even be noticed (most likely ignored) by the devs. (Remember when they said they had there own ideas and they NEVER check the ideas and suggestions forum).
<!--quoteo(post=1754939:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:57 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 24 2010, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For a completely different game, they might be good ideas. However, this is not the forum for a completely different game; we're here to discuss NS2 and ways to make it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 is a different game from NS1. Or rather it's only the same in a few ways (maybe there won't get a fade, or maybe it won't look/work like fade :P)... Onos is weak on the sides and back, unlike the NS1 onos... Skulk is way bigger in every reveal video... same goes for the Lerk (and i forget but i think the lerk lost the ability to shoot spikes or maybe it was gas). Read somewhere that the devs removed gorge webs. Maybe they'll add in dynamic infestion... We don't know exactly how dynamic infestation will AFFECT the battlefield... but i think it's safe to assume it won't just be a graphical feature... in fact even as a graphical feature it would be a form of camouflage and cover and therefore AFFECT the gameplay in favor of the aliens.
So that's a ton of changes to the alien team. Which implies marines will not be recognizable when compared to the capabilities they had in NS1. Marines will get new weaponry (the folding axe is a joke weapon). Flamethrower and handheld MINIGUNS!!!! is all we know about for sure. At one point early (way before the first reveal of anything) there was talk of attachments for the LMG, like a grenade launcher. This would imply that the LMG will be a capable weapon at any point in a round, against any enemy... maybe only when damage upgrades are achieved (i guess the best comparison is the M41A Pulse Rifle). New armor!!! The new marine armor looks way more protective then the NS1 armor, and lets not forget the new exo-suit and what sort of features it might have (MY GUESS it will be like IRON MAN... This is a wild guess but i don't think we're having a JETPACK OR HEAVY seperate... I BET the EXO-SUIT will be an ARMORED JETPACK not to dissimilar to NS1 servers that let you pick up a heavy AND jetpack).
Lets just hope that marine hand grenades kick ass, or i imagine there will be a riot.
Real pulse rifle :P <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HufACX1GepM&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HufACX1GepM...feature=related</a>
Ok. No more bickering on this thread. If you guys would like to debate anything that is 100% off topic, please create a new thread or keep it private (like I do).
Lets, please, keep all posts objective, informative, and logical. Please state your reasons for your opinions and suggestions for improvements. Thank you for your cooperation :)
<!--quoteo(post=1754948:date=Feb 24 2010, 01:18 PM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 24 2010, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok. No more bickering on this thread. If you guys would like to debate anything that is 100% off topic, please create a new thread or keep it private (like I do).
Lets, please, keep all posts objective, informative, and logical. Please state your reasons for your opinions and suggestions for improvements. Thank you for your cooperation :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the thread is over. Clearly, the majority doesn't like the idea while the minority does like the idea. It doesn't seem like anything else will be touched upon since we've gotten antsy.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Well, first of all NS2 development isn't a majority vote in the I&S subforum. Second, every idea is an idea. It may not be a good one, but in my experience most good ideas start from or are inspired by a bad one.
One might disagree with an idea or suggestion, and that's fine. We all want what we think is best for the game. But don't take this as an indicator to stop posting ideas.
<!--quoteo(post=1754941:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:18 AM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 24 2010, 11:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree. All of my ideas may not be 100% applicable, but I like to throw them out there to see what other players think and to give some inspiration to the devs. It doesn't hurt to make a suggestion. The worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't get used. I've got a huge list of them that I made and I appreciate the honest and logical feedback I get from everyone.
Now lets see if we can come up with some suggestions to make the bleeding idea work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1754968:date=Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM:name=tankefugl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tankefugl @ Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, first of all NS2 development isn't a majority vote in the I&S subforum. Second, every idea is an idea. It may not be a good one, but in my experience most good ideas start from or are inspired by a bad one.
One might disagree with an idea or suggestion, and that's fine. We all want what we think is best for the game. But don't take this as an indicator to stop posting ideas.
Keep the ideas flowing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally feel that encouraging new ideas is a good thing. However, I'm conflicted because I dislike being forced to spend time on criticizing poor ideas for flaws.
So, this is typically how I evaluate these ideas: 1) What is the core purpose of the idea? If there is no purpose, of if that purpose isn't worth the effort of implementation, toss it. 2) Does it fit with what we know/expect? So far, most are assuming we're sticking with a more arcade, sci-fi, FPS/RTS game. So, rocket launchers don't seem to fit. Vehicles are a no so far. Bunnyhopping is out. Adding a 3rd race is a bad idea. 3) Will it be useful and easy to recognize? Archaic random number-fu in the background is a bad thing. Transparency of game elements is a good thing. If it requires a secret 10 button combo, instant no. Making the player forum hunt for why something is happening is BAD. If it only occurs once every 50 games, it's also bad.
If you pass all 3 steps, then you're in the running and I'm more than willing to work with the idea. However, you'd be surprised how many don't pass because someone goes "I thought of cool idea from game X and want to import it" without thinking first. I'm not saying that's not a bad way to add new elements, but without thinking how it will play out in a different game is a sure way to get ignored.
So yeah, keep the ideas flowing. Just please put some thought into them and don't stream-of-conscious us. It only tends to annoy people.
Or, worse, assume the veterans around here are not taking time to read your posts. I can't speak for others, but if I post I always read everything.
<!--quoteo(post=1754984:date=Feb 24 2010, 06:02 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Feb 24 2010, 06:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754984"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do doubt that the devs will not implement something that most of the people do reject.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think the devs will implement something that most will reject?
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> OP: just let it go. Thank you for your interest in NS2 and to potentially improve on it but spellman does share some good questions to ask yourself when thinking about an idea for a game. I think we are done discussing it too and should move on to thinking about potentially better ideas than linger here.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
There's a reason why there is such poor representation of the experienced portion of the community (whose input is uniquely valuable in that it is informed by thousands of playing hours and by the fact that they're actually good >.<) in these discussions. They don't have the patience to sift through all the trivial and whimsical ideas put forth. It is relief that there are *any* competitive players willing to explain why a 'leaf-blower' is a crap idea or why recoil is unnecessary.
I get that ideas are just ideas and all but seriously! The genuine fear is that the developers steer the game towards the masses in order to bring in revenue. That is why there is frustration at all the suggestions that cite realism rather than gameplay or 'coolness' rather than feasability. All these ideas are legitimate in that they promote discussion but its unreasonable to expect people not to get antsy and shirty as they watch people try to turn their beloved and TOTALLY unique game into a generic off-the-shelves blockbuster.
<!--quoteo(post=1754954:date=Feb 24 2010, 12:59 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 24 2010, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the thread is over. Clearly, the majority doesn't like the idea while the minority does like the idea. It doesn't seem like anything else will be touched upon since we've gotten antsy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Several of the disagreements were from posters who were not well informed about all aspects of the suggestion, which I pointed out to them and provided them with the overlooked information. Furthermore, I don't believe I've had many suggestions on how to make the bleeding system acceptable.
<!--quoteo(post=1754968:date=Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM:name=tankefugl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tankefugl @ Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, first of all NS2 development isn't a majority vote in the I&S subforum. Second, every idea is an idea. It may not be a good one, but in my experience most good ideas start from or are inspired by a bad one.
One might disagree with an idea or suggestion, and that's fine. We all want what we think is best for the game. But don't take this as an indicator to stop posting ideas.
Keep the ideas flowing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you for the support. It's nice to know that the devs actually read these threads :)
<!--quoteo(post=1754983:date=Feb 24 2010, 04:59 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Feb 24 2010, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At least post why you think what you're proposing is a good addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bleeding keeps the suspense going even after the battle is over. Natural Selection can be a really fast paced game at times. Bridging the gap between fights with hp loss can increase the action on the screen and prolong the sense of danger.
<!--quoteo(post=1754993:date=Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a reason why there is such poor representation of the experienced portion of the community...They don't have the patience to sift through all the trivial and whimsical ideas put forth. It is relief that there are *any* competitive players willing to explain why a 'leaf-blower' is a crap idea or why recoil is unnecessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please keep such negative comments off of my threads. If you have a problem with <b>my</b> suggestions, then please send me a <b>private </b>message. Lets try to keep it objective and constructive. I'd like to see a good suggestion from you on how to fix my idea so that it will be acceptable.
<!--quoteo(post=1754993:date=Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get that ideas are just ideas and all but seriously! The genuine fear is that the developers steer the game towards the masses in order to bring in revenue. That is why there is frustration at all the suggestions that cite realism rather than gameplay or 'coolness' rather than feasability. All these ideas are legitimate in that they promote discussion but its unreasonable to expect people not to get antsy and shirty as they watch people try to turn their beloved and TOTALLY unique game into a generic off-the-shelves blockbuster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're entering dev territory. They get to choose what the game becomes. Please keep all posts on topic. Thank you :)
<!--quoteo(post=1755023:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:02 PM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 24 2010, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bleeding keeps the suspense going even after the battle is over. Natural Selection can be a really fast paced game at times. Bridging the gap between fights with hp loss can increase the action on the screen and prolong the sense of danger.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adding in a draw state and the potential for death after your own isn't exactly new in NS1. See Lerk gas. However, it is rare for any game to have this except in rare cases, such as a timed event/item such as a mine, dropped grenade, or burn damage from the Pyro.
In terms of NS2, I don't see a solid way to do this as you propose.
Instead, a more appropriate way would be for only a few abilities to be DoT attacks. For example, burning damage from the Marine's flamethrower is perfectly fine. Or perhaps Parasite deals its damage over a time period.
For all generic attacks to deal DoT no matter what seems pointless. It leads to 2 major issues. 1) snipe for stacking DoT! Snipe, let them bleed. Snipe, bleed, snipe bleed. LAAAAME. This is the optimal way to deal damage, and thus would be utilized, and thus slow down the game. 2) forced teamwork to mitigate the bleed. You want to encourage teamwork, but not directly punish for lack of it. It's more appropriate as I mentioned before for the "teamwork" to be a friend finishes off your prey as they scamper with 10hp, and not that you need a buddy around to always patch you up.
If there was bleeding, there would be no suspense. There's a difference between theatrical suspense and gameplay suspense. Most of the time after a battle, you would either have to cry for a medpack quickly and if you die from bleeding, you eject the commander. Multiply that by 8 for failed medpack drops. Everyone will just eject and it will not support teamwork, rather cause internal conflict.
Also, if you try to hold an area with an armory near by, you can say hello to armory humping 2.0 and yell at all the noobs for not shooting the aliens while they hump the armory attempting to heal and stop the bleeding.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thank you for the support. It's nice to know that the devs actually read these threads :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I did work with NS1, I do not work on NS2. They have my full support though, and I am fairly confident that my views on how the game should be in general will be portrayed in what they will make. I also believe they most probably take a stroll in I&S every now and then to see what's up, even though they're not replying. (This is an old problem, communities believe developers don't listen because they don't reply.)
I do not personally think that bleeding should be added, but it can spawn other good ideas.
<!--quoteo(post=1755044:date=Feb 25 2010, 04:15 AM:name=tankefugl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tankefugl @ Feb 25 2010, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although I did work with NS1, I do not work on NS2. They have my full support though, and I am fairly confident that my views on how the game should be in general will be portrayed in what they will make. I also believe they most probably take a stroll in I&S every now and then to see what's up, even though they're not replying. (This is an old problem, communities believe developers don't listen because they don't reply.)
I do not personally think that bleeding should be added, but it can spawn other good ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bleeding allows players to kill other players without actually doing the killing damaged. its unskilled. please no bleeding type thing.
I'd like to remind everyone that we aren't talking much health. I've mentioned 10-20% maximum health loss for maximum cause of bleeding (hp loss, hits, etc... not 1 hit). I've also mentioned that 5% would be an acceptable value. You aren't going to get hit with one bullet then bleed to death. This isn't much damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1755193:date=Feb 25 2010, 05:00 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 25 2010, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755193"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Trying to <i>survive</i> at 5 health, on the other hand, could be a bit more interesting (unless your Comm is awake).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What if you survive at 10 health and watch that health diminish a bit?
<!--quoteo(post=1755223:date=Feb 25 2010, 11:57 PM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 25 2010, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if you survive at 10 health and watch that health diminish a bit?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then I'm irritably spamming my commander to drop me a Medpack.
One of the most annoying parts of TF2 is frantically running for a health kit when you're on fire, only to die right before the health kit. It doesn't add anything to the game is boring and irritating. No bleeding please.
I just have to say that in your first post you answered the bleeding effect. Aliens have a chemical in their blood that when it's on their skin/exposed to air it'll form an instant skin over the wound area (read: clot). Being that it is a living organism that is able to infest lifeforms and convert them to it's cause and for it's own use, why not build a mechanism for stopping bleedout?
Marines have field heal nanites that are designed to stem (clot) any parts that are bleeding. They are highly durable and versatile in that the response time is immediate, however they do not add any extra "shielding" protection in this manner.
<!--quoteo(post=1755259:date=Feb 25 2010, 07:43 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Feb 25 2010, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of the most annoying parts of TF2 is frantically running for a health kit when you're on fire, only to die right before the health kit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What percentage of your health is burned away? I'm talking a maximum of 20% and a possibility of just 5%.
<!--quoteo(post=1755300:date=Feb 25 2010, 11:41 PM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 25 2010, 11:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What percentage of your health is burned away? I'm talking a maximum of 20% and a possibility of just 5%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a percentage. The Pyro's burn deals a set amount of damage over a set period of time since the last time you got burned.
Standard DoT weapon.
As I mentioned before, the only "bleed" that should occur is a subset of weapons cause DoT for some reason, i.e. flamethrower burning. Going beyond that tends to make life silly.
Comments
Close victories are memorable and enjoyable. Close defeats mostly make you want to do that tiny bit better next time so that you can have your memorable victory. Draws just end up being indifferent if they occur regularly.
Teamwork can be forced and emphasized better by many features, including the advantage of having a teammate with you to finish the job.
I'm just throwing out some suggestions. Here's some of my other quotes:
"...possibility of "nanites" auto-clotting"
"Marines will rely on teamwork for bandaging."
The marine does not require a medpack to stop bleeding. A teammate can do this or the "nanites" could stop it (like how the aliens heal); however, there'd be more teamwork without the "nanites."
If you guys would like to add anything to my suggestion or make some alterations, go for it. It's not set in stone. Saying you like it or dislike it is one thing, but suggesting an improvement is preferred.
<!--quoteo(post=1754906:date=Feb 24 2010, 02:19 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 24 2010, 02:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm still missing why we need this is the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We don't need this. Just like we don't need more than one kind of weapon. Just like we don't need armor. This is a game enhancer.
We won't know how this will effect the game until we actually get to play it. For now this is good for the devs to see for inspiration.
Let's see some of your ideas ass-jack.
I like all of Battlebug's ideas, just most of them don't apply to what most people want in NS2.
These sound great, but might be best saved for an NS2 Realism mod. Keep your ideas handy, once the SDK comes out some modder might like some of these.
I still love the spore-shield idea. :D
Ideas should not be had for their own sake, simpleton. The objective is to improve the game, not just throw in mechanics because they sound cool.
...but <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107793&hl=" target="_blank">since you asked...</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like all of Battlebug's ideas, just most of them don't apply to what most people want in NS2.
These sound great, but might be best saved for an NS2 Realism mod. Keep your ideas handy, once the SDK comes out some modder might like some of these.
I still love the spore-shield idea. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. For a completely different game, they might be good ideas. However, this is not the forum for a completely different game; we're here to discuss NS2 and ways to make it better.
I agree. All of my ideas may not be 100% applicable, but I like to throw them out there to see what other players think and to give some inspiration to the devs. It doesn't hurt to make a suggestion. The worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't get used. I've got a huge list of them that I made and I appreciate the honest and logical feedback I get from everyone.
Now lets see if we can come up with some suggestions to make the bleeding idea work.
1. There is NO way any idea can be appreciated by 80% to 100% of THIS community (Mostly because the majority doesn't even know how to do anything but disagree with any idea that endorses a feature that wasn't in NS1... Funny thing is how different NS2 will be... i imagine it will be a shock to MOST of this community. The devs know this and that's the reason they are so cautious on what they reveal.
2. Because of 1, 2 is actually impossible, but nonetheless: There is NO way an idea which is appreciated by the community is guaranteed to even be noticed (most likely ignored) by the devs. (Remember when they said they had there own ideas and they NEVER check the ideas and suggestions forum).
<!--quoteo(post=1754939:date=Feb 24 2010, 11:57 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 24 2010, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For a completely different game, they might be good ideas. However, this is not the forum for a completely different game; we're here to discuss NS2 and ways to make it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 is a different game from NS1. Or rather it's only the same in a few ways (maybe there won't get a fade, or maybe it won't look/work like fade :P)... Onos is weak on the sides and back, unlike the NS1 onos... Skulk is way bigger in every reveal video... same goes for the Lerk (and i forget but i think the lerk lost the ability to shoot spikes or maybe it was gas). Read somewhere that the devs removed gorge webs. Maybe they'll add in dynamic infestion... We don't know exactly how dynamic infestation will AFFECT the battlefield... but i think it's safe to assume it won't just be a graphical feature... in fact even as a graphical feature it would be a form of camouflage and cover and therefore AFFECT the gameplay in favor of the aliens.
So that's a ton of changes to the alien team. Which implies marines will not be recognizable when compared to the capabilities they had in NS1. Marines will get new weaponry (the folding axe is a joke weapon). Flamethrower and handheld MINIGUNS!!!! is all we know about for sure. At one point early (way before the first reveal of anything) there was talk of attachments for the LMG, like a grenade launcher. This would imply that the LMG will be a capable weapon at any point in a round, against any enemy... maybe only when damage upgrades are achieved (i guess the best comparison is the M41A Pulse Rifle). New armor!!! The new marine armor looks way more protective then the NS1 armor, and lets not forget the new exo-suit and what sort of features it might have (MY GUESS it will be like IRON MAN... This is a wild guess but i don't think we're having a JETPACK OR HEAVY seperate... I BET the EXO-SUIT will be an ARMORED JETPACK not to dissimilar to NS1 servers that let you pick up a heavy AND jetpack).
Lets just hope that marine hand grenades kick ass, or i imagine there will be a riot.
Real pulse rifle :P <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HufACX1GepM&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HufACX1GepM...feature=related</a>
Lets, please, keep all posts objective, informative, and logical. Please state your reasons for your opinions and suggestions for improvements. Thank you for your cooperation :)
Lets, please, keep all posts objective, informative, and logical. Please state your reasons for your opinions and suggestions for improvements. Thank you for your cooperation :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the thread is over. Clearly, the majority doesn't like the idea while the minority does like the idea. It doesn't seem like anything else will be touched upon since we've gotten antsy.
One might disagree with an idea or suggestion, and that's fine. We all want what we think is best for the game. But don't take this as an indicator to stop posting ideas.
Keep the ideas flowing.
Now lets see if we can come up with some suggestions to make the bleeding idea work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1754968:date=Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM:name=tankefugl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tankefugl @ Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, first of all NS2 development isn't a majority vote in the I&S subforum. Second, every idea is an idea. It may not be a good one, but in my experience most good ideas start from or are inspired by a bad one.
One might disagree with an idea or suggestion, and that's fine. We all want what we think is best for the game. But don't take this as an indicator to stop posting ideas.
Keep the ideas flowing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally feel that encouraging new ideas is a good thing. However, I'm conflicted because I dislike being forced to spend time on criticizing poor ideas for flaws.
So, this is typically how I evaluate these ideas:
1) What is the core purpose of the idea? If there is no purpose, of if that purpose isn't worth the effort of implementation, toss it.
2) Does it fit with what we know/expect? So far, most are assuming we're sticking with a more arcade, sci-fi, FPS/RTS game. So, rocket launchers don't seem to fit. Vehicles are a no so far. Bunnyhopping is out. Adding a 3rd race is a bad idea.
3) Will it be useful and easy to recognize? Archaic random number-fu in the background is a bad thing. Transparency of game elements is a good thing. If it requires a secret 10 button combo, instant no. Making the player forum hunt for why something is happening is BAD. If it only occurs once every 50 games, it's also bad.
If you pass all 3 steps, then you're in the running and I'm more than willing to work with the idea. However, you'd be surprised how many don't pass because someone goes "I thought of cool idea from game X and want to import it" without thinking first. I'm not saying that's not a bad way to add new elements, but without thinking how it will play out in a different game is a sure way to get ignored.
So yeah, keep the ideas flowing. Just please put some thought into them and don't stream-of-conscious us. It only tends to annoy people.
Or, worse, assume the veterans around here are not taking time to read your posts. I can't speak for others, but if I post I always read everything.
You think the devs will implement something that most will reject?
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
OP: just let it go. Thank you for your interest in NS2 and to potentially improve on it but spellman does share some good questions to ask yourself when thinking about an idea for a game. I think we are done discussing it too and should move on to thinking about potentially better ideas than linger here.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I get that ideas are just ideas and all but seriously! The genuine fear is that the developers steer the game towards the masses in order to bring in revenue. That is why there is frustration at all the suggestions that cite realism rather than gameplay or 'coolness' rather than feasability. All these ideas are legitimate in that they promote discussion but its unreasonable to expect people not to get antsy and shirty as they watch people try to turn their beloved and TOTALLY unique game into a generic off-the-shelves blockbuster.
Several of the disagreements were from posters who were not well informed about all aspects of the suggestion, which I pointed out to them and provided them with the overlooked information. Furthermore, I don't believe I've had many suggestions on how to make the bleeding system acceptable.
<!--quoteo(post=1754968:date=Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM:name=tankefugl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tankefugl @ Feb 24 2010, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, first of all NS2 development isn't a majority vote in the I&S subforum. Second, every idea is an idea. It may not be a good one, but in my experience most good ideas start from or are inspired by a bad one.
One might disagree with an idea or suggestion, and that's fine. We all want what we think is best for the game. But don't take this as an indicator to stop posting ideas.
Keep the ideas flowing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for the support. It's nice to know that the devs actually read these threads :)
<!--quoteo(post=1754983:date=Feb 24 2010, 04:59 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Feb 24 2010, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At least post why you think what you're proposing is a good addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bleeding keeps the suspense going even after the battle is over. Natural Selection can be a really fast paced game at times. Bridging the gap between fights with hp loss can increase the action on the screen and prolong the sense of danger.
<!--quoteo(post=1754993:date=Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a reason why there is such poor representation of the experienced portion of the community...They don't have the patience to sift through all the trivial and whimsical ideas put forth. It is relief that there are *any* competitive players willing to explain why a 'leaf-blower' is a crap idea or why recoil is unnecessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please keep such negative comments off of my threads. If you have a problem with <b>my</b> suggestions, then please send me a <b>private </b>message. Lets try to keep it objective and constructive. I'd like to see a good suggestion from you on how to fix my idea so that it will be acceptable.
<!--quoteo(post=1754993:date=Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Feb 24 2010, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get that ideas are just ideas and all but seriously! The genuine fear is that the developers steer the game towards the masses in order to bring in revenue. That is why there is frustration at all the suggestions that cite realism rather than gameplay or 'coolness' rather than feasability. All these ideas are legitimate in that they promote discussion but its unreasonable to expect people not to get antsy and shirty as they watch people try to turn their beloved and TOTALLY unique game into a generic off-the-shelves blockbuster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're entering dev territory. They get to choose what the game becomes. Please keep all posts on topic. Thank you :)
Adding in a draw state and the potential for death after your own isn't exactly new in NS1. See Lerk gas. However, it is rare for any game to have this except in rare cases, such as a timed event/item such as a mine, dropped grenade, or burn damage from the Pyro.
In terms of NS2, I don't see a solid way to do this as you propose.
Instead, a more appropriate way would be for only a few abilities to be DoT attacks. For example, burning damage from the Marine's flamethrower is perfectly fine. Or perhaps Parasite deals its damage over a time period.
For all generic attacks to deal DoT no matter what seems pointless. It leads to 2 major issues. 1) snipe for stacking DoT! Snipe, let them bleed. Snipe, bleed, snipe bleed. LAAAAME. This is the optimal way to deal damage, and thus would be utilized, and thus slow down the game. 2) forced teamwork to mitigate the bleed. You want to encourage teamwork, but not directly punish for lack of it. It's more appropriate as I mentioned before for the "teamwork" to be a friend finishes off your prey as they scamper with 10hp, and not that you need a buddy around to always patch you up.
Also, if you try to hold an area with an armory near by, you can say hello to armory humping 2.0 and yell at all the noobs for not shooting the aliens while they hump the armory attempting to heal and stop the bleeding.
Although I did work with NS1, I do not work on NS2. They have my full support though, and I am fairly confident that my views on how the game should be in general will be portrayed in what they will make. I also believe they most probably take a stroll in I&S every now and then to see what's up, even though they're not replying. (This is an old problem, communities believe developers don't listen because they don't reply.)
I do not personally think that bleeding should be added, but it can spawn other good ideas.
I do not personally think that bleeding should be added, but it can spawn other good ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bleeding allows players to kill other players without actually doing the killing damaged. its unskilled. please no bleeding type thing.
Trying to <i>survive</i> at 5 health, on the other hand, could be a bit more interesting (unless your Comm is awake).
What if you survive at 10 health and watch that health diminish a bit?
Then I'm irritably spamming my commander to drop me a Medpack.
Aliens have a chemical in their blood that when it's on their skin/exposed to air it'll form an instant skin over the wound area (read: clot).
Being that it is a living organism that is able to infest lifeforms and convert them to it's cause and for it's own use, why not build a mechanism for stopping bleedout?
Marines have field heal nanites that are designed to stem (clot) any parts that are bleeding. They are highly durable and versatile in that the response time is immediate, however they do not add any extra "shielding" protection in this manner.
What percentage of your health is burned away? I'm talking a maximum of 20% and a possibility of just 5%.
It's not a percentage. The Pyro's burn deals a set amount of damage over a set period of time since the last time you got burned.
Standard DoT weapon.
As I mentioned before, the only "bleed" that should occur is a subset of weapons cause DoT for some reason, i.e. flamethrower burning. Going beyond that tends to make life silly.