1. you dont have to quote the message above. I didnt and you still understand who I am speakign to. 2. I did try the edges aswell, but it didnt work and I tohught it would be farfetched, as a face should be made between points in a 3d-space, not lines if you ask me :P. 3. As I said I know it is not rly serious with the texture, just thought it would be good to show that the editor still can misunderstand what face is the roof. 4. I like lists.
<!--quoteo(post=1748834:date=Jan 24 2010, 09:18 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 24 2010, 09:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. I did try the edges aswell, but it didnt work and I tohught it would be farfetched, as a face should be made between points in a 3d-space, not lines if you ask me :P.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> for a face to be created, the shape needs to be "sealed" off by edges. in this pic, the shape isnt sealed so you wont be able to create a face <a href="http://img97.imageshack.us/i/screen1wz.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7626/screen1wz.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
when you move the top left vertex on top of the other, the shape still isnt sealed because the vertices are overlapped. you wont be able to create a face by selecting all the edges <a href="http://img715.imageshack.us/i/screen2r.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5953/screen2r.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
to fix that, select both vertices in the top left corner by drag selecting (click selecting wont work) and then hit weld vertices. that will enclose the shape and allow you to create a face.
if you still have problems trying to create your ceiling, send me your map and ill fix it up and then explain what the problem was
also the editor doesnt really care if a face is a wall/floor/ceiling. the difference in textures just makes it easier to work with
I did not save that map as I was just messign around, and I seem unable to reproduce that error... which I got twice in the map I got a picture of but didnt save :S.
If I get it again I will try the welding stuff, and if that doesnt work I will put the map here. But it wont appear when I want it to :P.
I still think that the create face should be done from vertexes aswell though, as then I can make the vertexes and then create a face with whatever shape I want to :P. But I suppose that it does not use vertexes as then it need some sort of system to understand where the edges shall be (so it doesnt make a triangle with a extra edge when you want it to make a rectangle). Would be good for regular triangles though.
<!--quoteo(post=1748889:date=Jan 24 2010, 06:12 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 24 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think that the create face should be done from vertexes aswell though, as then I can make the vertexes and then create a face with whatever shape I want to :P. But I suppose that it does not use vertexes as then it need some sort of system to understand where the edges shall be (so it doesnt make a triangle with a extra edge when you want it to make a rectangle). Would be good for regular triangles though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's why you have to create from edges. You think that UWE are dumb or what? lol
<!--quoteo(post=1748889:date=Jan 24 2010, 10:12 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 24 2010, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think that the create face should be done from vertexes aswell though, as then I can make the vertexes and then create a face with whatever shape I want to :P. But I suppose that it does not use vertexes as then it need some sort of system to understand where the edges shall be (so it doesnt make a triangle with a extra edge when you want it to make a rectangle). Would be good for regular triangles though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you select 6 vertices, how does spark know where you want the edges to be created for the face? selectiong edges sets the outline of the face you want to create. if u want to create odd shapes, use the line tool. once you've closed the shape off, the face is created automatically.
can we perhaps have a merge option in addition to the vertex weld?
I'd really would like an option where I want to merge two areas with out having to delete an edge where I completely lose the geometry where I am trying to merge
<!--quoteo(post=1749207:date=Jan 26 2010, 07:58 AM:name=SlickTick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SlickTick @ Jan 26 2010, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->is there a bright light map on/off switch if thats the case I havent found it (although that could be a useful feature)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes there is. If you click on the label in the upper left corner of one of the viewports (like "Perspective") a menu will appear which lets you choose between lit/unlit mode.
<!--quoteo(post=1749224:date=Jan 26 2010, 11:19 AM:name=Razagal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Razagal @ Jan 26 2010, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes there is. If you click on the label in the upper left corner of one of the viewports (like "Perspective") a menu will appear which lets you choose between lit/unlit mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks. How could I have missed that, damn so simple and obvious once you find it, its like the Columbus egg. Still I found it a bit annoying that it weren't in any of the top menus.
<!--quoteo(post=1748730:date=Jan 23 2010, 12:19 AM:name=fex905)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fex905 @ Jan 23 2010, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some how all my maps have a messed up grid and the move tool is off angle.
<img src="http://i46.tinypic.com/v62ng6.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/30tlwnk.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Anyone else get this too?
Half of my props don't appear in the prop browser, Some of them are checkerboard cubes( Command Center) Some of them are Green Blocks (Tech Point,) What's the deal? GTX 285 can easily handle the editor... Latest drivers, reformatting didn't help... What's up?
<!--quoteo(post=1749433:date=Jan 27 2010, 10:10 AM:name=Tephra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tephra @ Jan 27 2010, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Half of my props don't appear in the prop browser, Some of them are checkerboard cubes( Command Center) Some of them are Green Blocks (Tech Point,) What's the deal? GTX 285 can easily handle the editor... Latest drivers, reformatting didn't help... What's up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is certainly not half of them. The thing you are mentioning is the same for everyone. We don't have the command station prop yet (we used to have a colored box but they removed even that) and the tech point hole is a green trapezoid yes. You should have other tech point props available (a general, a damaged one and also with a hive)
Still an annoying bug, it's been mentioned a long time ago but never got fixed.
When I rotate a prop -90 degrees on 2 axis it will start toggling between 0,-90,-90 and 0,270,270 or something like that when I move it. (fake mirroring everytimes I apply an action on the prop)
Sorry if it's been mentioned before but I have a weird bug; when I open the Editor through the Launch Pad everything is really dark. I can see the outlines of the triangulation but it's really hard to do anything. When I open the editor directly however it works just fine, and I have no idea why.
<!--quoteo(post=1741334:date=Nov 28 2009, 06:50 PM:name=Private)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Private @ Nov 28 2009, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure this has not been posted before, but I don't feel like reading through the entire thread.
Whenever I place a prop and rotate it 90 degrees round the Y axis and an arbitrary amount around the Z axis, the Z rotation will change sign every time I use the move tool on the prop (drag along any axis). This gives the impression that the rotated prop 'flips' every time I move it.
I haven't extensively tested other axis or rotations, but I am able to reliably reproduce this in every prop I have tried.
Anyone else?
(On a side note: Scaling the prop after the rotation will make the prop disappear. My editor crashed as well.)
Edit: Clarification and new spelling errors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I get this problem too. When I try to rotate is 90 degrees on one axis than 90 degrees on another axis it starts flipping on me.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
When you fit a texture on a very small face and one or both scale values go at 10 or higher, the value disappears and you can't change it to something lower. You have to scale the texture in the view-windows and the number reappears, when it goes below 10.
You didn't write anything about graphic memory in your sys. requirements so I'm not sure, wether I have enough or if this is related to the radeon graphic cards. I have a Radeon x700 pro with 128mb (DirectX 9b).
As soon as I try switch tools (move, rotate, etc.) I get this error and one or more viewports don't adjust properly and are unusable. I can change between "select" and a tool multiple times to get a viewport working. It seems to be related to the different windows changing size/position. All this happens in unlit mode already. Lit mode is even worse, not much though.
I have been working with spark for only 2 weeks now, but I have been having a few troubles with the Editor. I know that if I am having these problems then I cannot be the only one, and I really think that pinning them down would help out those in the community who are looking to put in the effort to create a map!
*Note: I realize that the editor itself is still in alpha stages, and that you people at UW are probably more aware of these than anyone. I am simply hoping that voicing my oppinion will help you know what the community (read:me) wants most, so that these can be fixed sooner rather than later.
1. Snapping Vertices
Alot of the time when using the draw rectangle tool, for instance to replace a wall that has been deleted, I will notice that although it says the vertices snap to the adjacent walls in actuality they do not. When I zoom in as close as possible I will find that the vertices and even the sides of each wall are in fact slightly askew. Welding vertices doesn't seem to help as this just causes everything to move as one (or maybe I'm using it wrong?). Getting these to line back up is especially troubling as it must be perfectly balanced on all 3 dimensions, or else just extended to force overlap. I find myself forced to draw every room via the extrude tool, which doesn't always work out, especially when you have a complex room to build.
It would be really great if I could select a vertex and click a 'snap to closest vertex' button so that either: A) The offending vertex would be destroyed, and the wall it is a part of would be re-created with the closest adjacent vertex (preferable). B) The offending vertex would take on the same coordinates as the closest vertex to it. Heck even "C) give me some way to see each vertex's coordinates." would be a godsend because then I could copy the values over myself.
p.s. If you do decide to look at the code for vertices, it would save mappers a few seconds if selecting a vertice automatically switched them into the move tool. After all, it's not like we can rotate or texture a vertex
2. Snapping Lines
Same as snapping vertices, but shifts a line along x, y, and z to the nearest parallel line. Any vertex on the line is shifted the same amount. This would be especially useful when designing ramps as the rectangle tool really has troubles drawing on any line that isn't exactly on the X, Y, or Z from its starting point. Yesterday I spent an hour trying to get a ramp to connect two rectangles that I had drawn into two adjacent rooms. I eventually had to make 3 walls using the line drawing tool, and for the fourth I had to draw a triangle, add a vertice, then move each vertice until it formed the roof of my little hallway. The room itself took less time to get to the alpha stage than the hallway connecting it to the rest of my map!
3. Reset Grid Button
All too often I find myself refining the grid and then switching to Move mode, only to find out that it is causing the problems listed above. Having a way to definitively set the grid back to a base amount (1?) could probably get the snap function working correctly if anyone refined their grid to the point where it is having troubles like above.
4. More Improvements to Rectangles In General
A) Having a user-modifiable setting for 45 degree rectangles would allow some more complex maps to develop beyond just squares, squares, squares. B) Speaking of squares, how about holding ctrl or shift while drawing a rectangle in order to ensure that it comes out perfectly square? This would even solve the 45 degree problem, for me at least.
p.s. if you would like an example of what I am talking about, make a basic rectangular room in one instance of the editor. In another instance of the editor do the same thing. Copy-paste them both together and then try to build a hallway connecting them. The trick will be to have no bleeding (bleeding being where you can stand inside the hallway and see outside the map). Good luck getting it make in under an hour!
Drawing a line (Line Tool) then thinking <i>"oops thats a bit wrong"</i> and pressing <b>CTRL+Z</b> to undo results in a crash <u>sometimes</u>.
EDIT: Not sometimes, always under the following specific: <b>Select the line tool, Draw a line, Hover over the line (Higlight Blue), Press CTRL+Z = Crash</b> <u>OR</u> <b>Draw a square then select the line tool, hover over a line and then press CTRL+Z = Crash</b> <u> ALSO</u> The circle tool does the same. The square tool does not! You can draw out a square (or use an exsisting line) then select the Circle or Line Tool, hover over a line and press CTRL+Z to crash it.
Basicly, The editor does not like you undoing a line that you have highlighted with the Line or Circle tool, This does <u>not</u> apply to the Square tool.
Key bindings take precedence over Graphical User Interface focus.
IE. "Z" is bound to zoom to the selected element. If you're typing in a textbox, say, the model field of a prop, hitting "Z" will call the bounded function instead of printing the character Z to the textbox.
Edit: And about editing multi-part fields such as the Location vector: If you edit the string of numbers in the text field directly beside the variable name (origin, scale, etc.), the changes don't get applied to the object. If you then notice this and decide to edit each part of the field seperately (x,y,z), further changes also don't get applied and you need to deselect, reselect and make your changes to each variable seperately.
Could the developers add a way to reset all the window positions to their default? This is an issue I had in 3dsmax too and I was surprised that the only way to undo it was to delete files.
Long story short: I used to have 2 monitors, I had the editor open on one and would have the tool-windows open on the other, now the other one is gone and I can't get my windows back!
I know it's not the most convenient way to do it, but you can edit options.xml in %appdata%\Natural Selection 2\Editor\ and delete the "layout" section.
I agree we should have an option to let us reset window positions without editing files manually (and I must add that we'd need the same to reset keyboard shortcuts).
<img src="http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r70/Yonder28/zz.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> My grid is black, and I cannot see props outside of my level. Bug or simple change? I cannot find where to change it if so.
Comments
2. I did try the edges aswell, but it didnt work and I tohught it would be farfetched, as a face should be made between points in a 3d-space, not lines if you ask me :P.
3. As I said I know it is not rly serious with the texture, just thought it would be good to show that the editor still can misunderstand what face is the roof.
4. I like lists.
for a face to be created, the shape needs to be "sealed" off by edges. in this pic, the shape isnt sealed so you wont be able to create a face
<a href="http://img97.imageshack.us/i/screen1wz.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7626/screen1wz.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
when you move the top left vertex on top of the other, the shape still isnt sealed because the vertices are overlapped. you wont be able to create a face by selecting all the edges
<a href="http://img715.imageshack.us/i/screen2r.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5953/screen2r.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
to fix that, select both vertices in the top left corner by drag selecting (click selecting wont work) and then hit weld vertices. that will enclose the shape and allow you to create a face.
if you still have problems trying to create your ceiling, send me your map and ill fix it up and then explain what the problem was
also the editor doesnt really care if a face is a wall/floor/ceiling. the difference in textures just makes it easier to work with
If I get it again I will try the welding stuff, and if that doesnt work I will put the map here. But it wont appear when I want it to :P.
I still think that the create face should be done from vertexes aswell though, as then I can make the vertexes and then create a face with whatever shape I want to :P. But I suppose that it does not use vertexes as then it need some sort of system to understand where the edges shall be (so it doesnt make a triangle with a extra edge when you want it to make a rectangle).
Would be good for regular triangles though.
Would be good for regular triangles though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's why you have to create from edges. You think that UWE are dumb or what? lol
Would be good for regular triangles though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you select 6 vertices, how does spark know where you want the edges to be created for the face? selectiong edges sets the outline of the face you want to create. if u want to create odd shapes, use the line tool. once you've closed the shape off, the face is created automatically.
I'd really would like an option where I want to merge two areas with out having to delete an edge where I completely lose the geometry where I am trying to merge
is it my graphic card? I got a Radeon HD 4850
Funny thing is that it worked in the viewer the textures there were affected by lights.
Am I missing something? is there a bright light map on/off switch if thats the case I havent found it (although that could be a useful feature)
Yes there is.
If you click on the label in the upper left corner of one of the viewports (like "Perspective") a menu will appear which lets you choose between lit/unlit mode.
If you click on the label in the upper left corner of one of the viewports (like "Perspective") a menu will appear which lets you choose between lit/unlit mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks. How could I have missed that, damn so simple and obvious once you find it, its like the Columbus egg. Still I found it a bit annoying that it weren't in any of the top menus.
<img src="http://i46.tinypic.com/v62ng6.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/30tlwnk.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone else get this too?
That is certainly not half of them. The thing you are mentioning is the same for everyone. We don't have the command station prop yet (we used to have a colored box but they removed even that) and the tech point hole is a green trapezoid yes. You should have other tech point props available (a general, a damaged one and also with a hive)
When I rotate a prop -90 degrees on 2 axis it will start toggling between 0,-90,-90 and 0,270,270 or something like that when I move it. (fake mirroring everytimes I apply an action on the prop)
*Edit
The viewer does the same thing.
Whenever I place a prop and rotate it 90 degrees round the Y axis and an arbitrary amount around the Z axis, the Z rotation will change sign every time I use the move tool on the prop (drag along any axis). This gives the impression that the rotated prop 'flips' every time I move it.
I haven't extensively tested other axis or rotations, but I am able to reliably reproduce this in every prop I have tried.
Anyone else?
(On a side note: Scaling the prop after the rotation will make the prop disappear. My editor crashed as well.)
Edit: Clarification and new spelling errors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get this problem too. When I try to rotate is 90 degrees on one axis than 90 degrees on another axis it starts flipping on me.
You have to scale the texture in the view-windows and the number reappears, when it goes below 10.
I'm getting this error regularly now that I have a little scene going on:
<a href="http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=ns2test01.qurm.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.abload.de/thumb/ns2test01.qurm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=ns2test02.v5cp.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.abload.de/thumb/ns2test02.v5cp.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
You didn't write anything about graphic memory in your sys. requirements so I'm not sure, wether I have enough or if this is related to the radeon graphic cards.
I have a Radeon x700 pro with 128mb (DirectX 9b).
As soon as I try switch tools (move, rotate, etc.) I get this error and one or more viewports don't adjust properly and are unusable. I can change between "select" and a tool multiple times to get a viewport working.
It seems to be related to the different windows changing size/position.
All this happens in unlit mode already. Lit mode is even worse, not much though.
*Note: I realize that the editor itself is still in alpha stages, and that you people at UW are probably more aware of these than anyone. I am simply hoping that voicing my oppinion will help you know what the community (read:me) wants most, so that these can be fixed sooner rather than later.
1. Snapping Vertices
Alot of the time when using the draw rectangle tool, for instance to replace a wall that has been deleted, I will notice that although it says the vertices snap to the adjacent walls in actuality they do not. When I zoom in as close as possible I will find that the vertices and even the sides of each wall are in fact slightly askew. Welding vertices doesn't seem to help as this just causes everything to move as one (or maybe I'm using it wrong?). Getting these to line back up is especially troubling as it must be perfectly balanced on all 3 dimensions, or else just extended to force overlap. I find myself forced to draw every room via the extrude tool, which doesn't always work out, especially when you have a complex room to build.
It would be really great if I could select a vertex and click a 'snap to closest vertex' button so that either:
A) The offending vertex would be destroyed, and the wall it is a part of would be re-created with the closest adjacent vertex (preferable).
B) The offending vertex would take on the same coordinates as the closest vertex to it.
Heck even "C) give me some way to see each vertex's coordinates." would be a godsend because then I could copy the values over myself.
p.s. If you do decide to look at the code for vertices, it would save mappers a few seconds if selecting a vertice automatically switched them into the move tool. After all, it's not like we can rotate or texture a vertex
2. Snapping Lines
Same as snapping vertices, but shifts a line along x, y, and z to the nearest parallel line. Any vertex on the line is shifted the same amount. This would be especially useful when designing ramps as the rectangle tool really has troubles drawing on any line that isn't exactly on the X, Y, or Z from its starting point. Yesterday I spent an hour trying to get a ramp to connect two rectangles that I had drawn into two adjacent rooms. I eventually had to make 3 walls using the line drawing tool, and for the fourth I had to draw a triangle, add a vertice, then move each vertice until it formed the roof of my little hallway. The room itself took less time to get to the alpha stage than the hallway connecting it to the rest of my map!
3. Reset Grid Button
All too often I find myself refining the grid and then switching to Move mode, only to find out that it is causing the problems listed above. Having a way to definitively set the grid back to a base amount (1?) could probably get the snap function working correctly if anyone refined their grid to the point where it is having troubles like above.
4. More Improvements to Rectangles In General
A) Having a user-modifiable setting for 45 degree rectangles would allow some more complex maps to develop beyond just squares, squares, squares.
B) Speaking of squares, how about holding ctrl or shift while drawing a rectangle in order to ensure that it comes out perfectly square? This would even solve the 45 degree problem, for me at least.
p.s. if you would like an example of what I am talking about, make a basic rectangular room in one instance of the editor. In another instance of the editor do the same thing. Copy-paste them both together and then try to build a hallway connecting them. The trick will be to have no bleeding (bleeding being where you can stand inside the hallway and see outside the map). Good luck getting it make in under an hour!
EDIT: Not sometimes, always under the following specific:
<b>Select the line tool, Draw a line, Hover over the line (Higlight Blue), Press CTRL+Z = Crash</b>
<u>OR</u>
<b>Draw a square then select the line tool, hover over a line and then press CTRL+Z = Crash</b>
<u>
ALSO</u>
The circle tool does the same. The square tool does not!
You can draw out a square (or use an exsisting line) then select the Circle or Line Tool, hover over a line and press CTRL+Z to crash it.
Basicly, The editor does not like you undoing a line that you have highlighted with the Line or Circle tool, This does <u>not</u> apply to the Square tool.
IE. "Z" is bound to zoom to the selected element. If you're typing in a textbox, say, the model field of a prop, hitting "Z" will call the bounded function instead of printing the character Z to the textbox.
Edit: And about editing multi-part fields such as the Location vector: If you edit the string of numbers in the text field directly beside the variable name (origin, scale, etc.), the changes don't get applied to the object. If you then notice this and decide to edit each part of the field seperately (x,y,z), further changes also don't get applied and you need to deselect, reselect and make your changes to each variable seperately.
The material files point to the prop's maps (sharing the same name). That results in an incorrect specular for these two maps.
Also, the specular map of these materials (in the materials diffuse alpha and not the prop spec maps) have too high white levels.
Long story short: I used to have 2 monitors, I had the editor open on one and would have the tool-windows open on the other, now the other one is gone and I can't get my windows back!
I agree we should have an option to let us reset window positions without editing files manually (and I must add that we'd need the same to reset keyboard shortcuts).
My grid is black, and I cannot see props outside of my level. Bug or simple change? I cannot find where to change it if so.
Edit: It happens with other tools too.