Also, on the subject of my 'alpha male' idea -- while it'd be the alien version of the commander, the commander would still maintain it's uniqueness (being that the alpha male wouldn't have an overhead view or anything -- he'd just be a 'field commander' of sorts -- an experienced soldier for the lil' aliens to look up to and follow). All my idea basically specified was that the alpha male would be more or less the most talented / experienced player on the team, and point this out, so that people would trust his advice. As a side benefit, he could perhaps give minor bonuses to those around him. An aura of leadership, if you will. I think this would add an interesting element of the game -- the aliens would be individualistic but still work together well, and there would be a lot of fierce yet friendly competition for the spot of alpha male (as it would go to the person with the most points). On that note, it'd be nice if you actually got points for building stuff, like in TFC (I think it's TFC I'm thinking of, anyway). I spent the entire game building massive defenses for my team as a gorge -- my score at the end of the game? -1 because I suicided once when I got stuck as an Onos. Go figure.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't try to make the aliens any easier to use...
<b>Skulks:</b> I see 3 marines and I laugh as I get ready for an easy meal. I play with plenty of people who have the same reaction to 5 marines.
Turret farms are easily taken down by a few skulks taking turns at circle-strafing a turret. When all the turrets covering down one side of a TF is down (usually only takes 1 or 2) the TF goes down shortly after.
<b>Lerks:</b> Even without adrenaline there is little reason for your feet to ever touch the ground. Learn to glide, learn to turn corners. Learn to use your spikes and to use your incredible speed to stay far away from marines (spikes are 100% accurate at any distance, even lmgs wont hit at any decent range). Get carapace to make maximum use of your massive amounts of armour.
Team up with a skulk and fly around to keep the marines distracted or team up with a fade and give them invulnerability!
<b>Fades</b> Get 3 fades together and you have won the game. No amount of seige/ha/gren combos will stop these babies! Use blink to quickly surround an enemy or to fake going down certain corridors (ie at a T-junction you turn left and then blink to the right side).
Maybe I'm just playing on all the right (or wrong servers) but aliens have it waaaaay to easy in my opinion. It takes a very dedicated and team-playing marine squad to beat the aliens down...
Revenge, you really should post an article in the New Players Forum to help the newcomers there.
I especially liked the part with the fade and the t-junction. That's absolutely brilliant! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, I have been struggling with Amantes claims for quite some time now and I'm beginning to believe that his main goal is not to change the way how aliens are supposed to be played nor to make them 'easier to play'.
I'd rather say what he wants is, making the aliens 'better to get into' for newcomers.
I have a pretty conservative stance on the matter of 'tweaking things to death'. But for now I would be willing to make some compromises to SOME of the points that were made.
Yet I still think the 'alpha player' thingie is not needed at all (Plus Amantes still didn't come up with ideas as to HOW someone would deserve such a title on a public server at all) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Started off very badly,skulk rush,almost got the entire base gone,but we managed to push first wave back.2nd wave,same thing.Ok got some turrets up,half downstairs,half at CC.Moved team to hera entrance.Majority of alien team keeps rushing at hera entrance,1 skulk rushed at comm chair,took out the 2 turrets by circle strafing(i was like "na...2 turrets....that skulk cant survive...."),rushed into cc room,i got out,shot it a few times but he had that damn carapace 3,died,respawned,got a 3 man squad up there,due to lag the skulk crossed the entire distance from comm chair to elevator in under a second(teleport),wiped out whole squad,i suspect due to skulk's teleportation field device that we never even scratched him,repeat till comm chair goes boom,at which point the hera entrance team got turrets up, got wiped out war of attrition against skulks,skulks circle strafed the turrets,wiped them out easily,then chomped the TF and RT,then 4 onos with 2 fades rushed into our base,as well as a lerk that kept sporing the entire area.
lol... oh my... that what happens when I start playing marines <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I don't envy the marine's job at all, it's tough and paranoiish.
That's why I draw my hat to any marine team winning, cause I have tried and failed as a marine. I know a marine win is usually a well deserved and hard fought for thing. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
On a note of the whole 'alpha male' idea. Maybe they can have that aura thing, which would cause the aliens to use more teamwork to survive. But maybe the 'alpha male' could have an option to down-evolve any gorge who is just being gorge to get to fade faster and just hogging RPs. It's really annoying to have 2 gorges in the first 5 minutes, be doing fine. The gorges need like 20 more RPs to get both other hives up, and have another jerk go gorge just to get some RPs. If some 'alpha male' could have the option of down-evolving him, the other gorges could get the hive up faster.
This might lead to people on the alien team being jerks and downsizing their only gorge, but hey, I hate those damn acid rockets. Stupid fades strafing left and right, shooting those things and doing splash damage through walls. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I'd just prefer to see the Fade be the melee creature the manual portrays it as, not the "UT Rocket Launcher guy" most people seem to play it as. (And no, I don't. The only time I fire more than a few rockets is to attract HA's down a corridor to me)
And I see lots of people CLAIM about circlestrafing a factory to death, but you know what? I've never yet seen ANYONE pull it off. Oh, but I'm obviously a n00b, playing on n00b servers with my n00b friends. (In other words, STFU now before you flame. I'm not interested in hearing it)
The aliens aren't underpowered, persay, as much as, like aforementioned, they're hard to get into for most people. Hard to understand. That aside, though, they could use a few tweaks.
It seems a lot of other people agree with my assessment that the Fade should get acid rocket last -- after all, the fade is meant to be a teleporting badass that pops right in your face and claws the crap out of you. Not a rocketmonkey, which is how almost everyone plays them (although, more people might use the fade's teleport if it wasn't so **obscenity** hard to use).
Like I said, tweaks. For one, I'd like for some of the sensory upgrades besides cloaking to actually not suck. They're so crappy it's a joke. No one ever chooses anything besides cloaking from there -- anyone who's smart anyway.
And LagAdder, you obviously need to read a bit closer. BOTH times I remarked on the alpha male idea, I remarked how a person would get such a status -- having the most points (IE, kills, but I say points because I'd like to see gorges get points for building stuff and other such non-combat actions being rewarded in the future).
I still don't see how massfragging and building spamming would qualify as a reference of leadership qualities, that's all.
'Other non-combat actions' should be specified in greater detail, to help people to understand what you mean by that.
I also might note, that I am NOT agreeing in having acid rocket last. My plea would rather be to have blink moved up to the 2nd slot. As stated before, I think Bile Bomb should come last under any circumstances.
Edit: Corrected a typo <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe the acid rocket shouldn't go last, but at least 3rd. And it should cost more energy. It's really annoying to see a fade bile bombing the base, and when some <b>punk</b> marine runs up with is LMG and starts firing from 5 feet, to see the fade run away firing his <b>BS</b> rocket at him instead of running up and clawing him to death. Thats a true rocketmonkey.
<!--QuoteBegin--Smilin Joe+Nov 29 2002, 11:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Smilin Joe @ Nov 29 2002, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's really annoying to see a fade bile bombing the base, and when some <b>punk</b> marine runs up with is LMG and starts firing from 5 feet, to see the fade run away firing his <b>BS</b> rocket at him instead of running up and clawing him to death. Thats a true rocketmonkey.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> people are afraid of close combat. they much prefer to shoot from far away without risk of getting hurt. getting hurt is such a pain, dont you think? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
LagAdder . . . why should bile bomb be last? It's really not all that powerful, and the fact that acid rocket is the freaking second weapon, makes people play fades like long range combat cowards, when they're really meant to run in and kick some **obscenity**. Hell, I'd like to see the acid rocket at least replaced with something else, it really doesn't FIT the fade's modus operandi of close combat **obscenity**-kicking.
As for the alpha male thing . . . just an idea. The leader would have no authority unlike the commander, but you could get bonuses to building / combat / defense by being around him in the field so it'd be good to heed what he says. And I think most kills is a pretty good method to determine who would be the alpha male -- it's basically like, "Hey, this player is the most skilled fighter, so he's your field commander, you should listen to him". All I know is the way it is now is the aliens have no unifying force, so it's a bit hard for them to work together sometimes. But I don't want to clone the commander or anything, just want them to have their own unique method of leadership. If you can show me any kind of military or fighting unit in real life that has succeeded without some kind of leadership, with everyone being on the same 'level' of authority, I'd be damn surprised . . .
I'm not saying acid bomb should stay 2nd. I'm just saying that it is enough to have acid rocket and blink switch places to achieve more close combatting fades, that's all.
You're saying having the highest kill ratio is an indicator of also being the most competent strategist. I just think that's simply not true.
Someone getting extra priviliges because of leading the frag-list is only poisoning the team spirit. I think they should remove the frag counters on the alien side as well. Frags are a pointless thing in a teamplay oriented game.
The competition should be between the teams, not within the teams.
Also the Kharaa are no military unit. The concept is that of a collective in wich each element is equally important. That's what I like about them.
I wonder why all those other mods come along well without a commander. Good teamwork needs no leader who dictates what to do next, imho.
I don't know. Something needs to happen to the fade, something even as drastic acid rocket being replaced with something different altogether. On more or less every public server I've been on, every person I see playing a fade uses nothing but the acid rockets, disregarding blink and close combat entirely.
Part of this is, I think, again, because of blink being such a pain in the **obscenity** to use. At the least, I'd like to see it tweaked a bit to work easier -- the way it is now, it's too hit or miss to rely on, I think (although I still like playing close combat fade with the claws).
And yes, you don't need a leader to have good teamplay. But the whole issue I've been trying to get across, which you obviously aren't getting, is the fact that it's pretty rare to see good teamplay on the public servers. So while the marines are being forced to work together more or less, a lot of times people on the alien team are going about doing their own thing, disregarding the needs of the team (like the aforementioned people who love to play gorge when there's already two of them and don't listen to people who tell them that they're crippling their team). So, I just thought, with some sort of field leader role with the aliens, maybe the average player would be more inspired to work together.
At the least, I'd like to see the blink change, and acid rocket made last on the lineup (with bile bomb being second last, obviously).
Sometimes you do, actually . . . but that's besides the point.
Apparently, you're insinuating that the fade melee attack is weak, like the welder. That's pretty retarded. Do some reading (and testing) and you'll realize that fades have the second best melee attack, and it's to be feared. Their whole METHOD is supposed to be teleporting in with blink and clawing the **obscenity** out of people. But what do I know? UZE ROCKETZ WITH FADZE$#*!
<b>The undertone is getting a bit insultive and the discussion starts going in circles</b> Instead of giving a <i>reasonable</i> explanation <i>why</i> someone would listen to the guy with the most frags, you keep praying down your mantra of how important such a feature would be.
<b>Thank you for the discussion, though</b>. You actually have quite some good ideas, wich I will keep in mind and recommend/support in other suggestion threads.
<b>So please don't be grumpy with me</b> if I simply don't see the point of having an 'alpha player'. Maybe you just weren't able to get it across or I was too dumb to see it. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You actually have quite some good ideas<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why thank you. He isn't the only one hoping for a move-around of Fade weaponry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You know, it's not like you see HA marines rushing in to attack fades with welders either. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now this is just silly. Once again, I point to the background. Is the IDEA of a HA Marine to go around meleeing with a welder? NO. So if the game is working right, no-one should want to.
And as for BB being 3rd, and AR going 4th. Well, if BB was 3rd, you'd see less farms, and comms would actually have to TRY, rather than just...
Step 1.... Get marines to next intersection Step 2.... Build Turret Factory Step 3.... Build Turrets on every conceivable surface Repeat ad nauseum.
And. As a nice bonus. You marine players will finally not think the Fade is so unkillable. Because, having to rely on it's melee skills more, you get more chance to shoot at it. (Therefore, more chance they'll screw up and get shot to bits)
AND. Second nice bonus. People will lose the ravening obsession for Adren. I've been told now (I nearly wept) by seasoned players who I've played with before that "Aliens can't win without Adren" OH. MY. GOD. NO.
Hey Flayra, hope you're reading this, because for once this ISN'T a flame session.
heh! The marine team is much more powerfull then ALiens since the very first start.
And I can tell, because when I command (since first version) I win all the time.
WHY PEOPLE TINK THAT ALIENS WER MORE POWERFULL b4? Because all newbies were going Marines. And everytime I lost as a comdr it was because I had newbies in the team not knowing what to do.
All ur lil essaies sux, the guy that posted this msg here first was right. And some how, NS team come up with this new patch!!!! v1.03!!!!!
OMG! WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!! Now the marines are just invincible. I just did 10 consecutives games with decent players that Iv know on the server, and we won 10 times in 5 minutes rushing Aliens hive....
Cmon! it takes an hour to respawn for an alien, they get killed by 2 bullets, they cant share their res and it takes forever to build a 2nd hive.
This version as killed the game. Im going back to DoD until those guys doin the game realise that they got influenced by n00bs!!!!
<b>@DSSG_Nitro:</b> Your language tempts the assumption that you've spent more time under a trollbridge than in a commander's seat.
This makes it extremely difficult to respect your opinion. And it makes it even tougher not to feel sorry for the DoD community.
<i>/me</i> puts up a 'don't feed the troll' sign and pulls this thread back on topic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think <b>Amante</b> and the many other people posting on this thread have made this a rather interesting discussion with very good (and sometimes bold) suggestions about how the game could be tweaked to be more fun for everyone.
How about we do as some wise person suggested, and take the fade away from the rocketmonkey status he now has (lol rocketmonkey). I think it should be Slash, Blink, Acid Rocket, Cleave. Bile Bomb is a waste of time. Why bomb a base when you can onos charge the damn thing and annihilate everything anyway! OR have an umbra surrounding you while you headbut/slash the turrets? As for the new idea "Cleave", here's my idea. He has HUGE BLOODY SICKLES AS ARMS!!!! Why on earth can't the bugger charge in and go WHOOOOSHHH and lop some heads off?? Just like you would use a sickle on a field of wheat, he can cleave through walls of marines. Essentially, it'll be an area affect attack where it uses up a heap of adrenalin (so you can't cleave again straight away), if not all of his adrenalin. The attack does so much damage it can pretty much kill a newly spawned marine in one hit. Yes, that's a lot of damage, but considering it's a HUGE BLOODY SICKLE ON HIS ARM he should be able to!!! That would make the fade as powerful as an onos at end game for running in and going WHOOOSH and taking out heaps of stuff in one attack... and he'd want to be able to, cos after that he's not going anywhere till he gets his energy back.
Oh yeah, alpha male idea.. ba-bowwww. There is absolutely no way it can be fairly decided that someone is an alpha-male, if anything it'll give the mongrel a big head.
Without entirely incompentent marines the game is theres.
3 wins striaght by doing this: all marines rush outside of main hive... set up turrets and then seige right off the bat
4 straight wins by just rushing the main hive in general.
its just not possible to stop a group of more than 3 marines with any number of sulks.
I mean before if you got in close that means the marine was dead... but now you need to follow them around blindly biting with the hope your going the right direction.
If the guy aiming for you doesn't kill, you the spray will.
We lost 5 sulks in 10 seconds to 3 marines basically randomally spraying in our direction.
The marines are basically given a hive now. More than that if they have the brains to split up and take them both or simply attack the exsisting hive, there is no way to stop them.
I say put sulks back as they were. But give marines standard turret factory in spawn so they dont get rushed the hell out of every round like last beta.
<!--QuoteBegin--LagAdder+Dec 1 2002, 03:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LagAdder @ Dec 1 2002, 03:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>@DSSG_Nitro:</b> Your language tempts the assumption that you've spent more time under a trollbridge than in a commander's seat.
This makes it extremely difficult to respect your opinion. And it makes it even tougher not to feel sorry for the DoD community.
<i>/me</i> puts up a 'don't feed the troll' sign and pulls this thread back on topic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think <b>Amante</b> and the many other people posting on this thread have made this a rather interesting discussion with very good (and sometimes bold) suggestions about how the game could be tweaked to be more fun for everyone.
It should stay that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah yes, ignoring that guy popping up would be better than paying him out.. after all, this thread is for discussion.. not flame/arguments. I think we can safely just ignore DSSG_Nitro's input for now.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh yes, i had a rethink of my last post: Acid rocket replaced by bile bomb.. making it: slash, blink, bile bomb, cleave.
Still, some fella's point remains - the fade is a melee machine, not a long range sniper. At least with no acid rocket he has to get up close, it just so happens that when he's up close his bile bomb will rip apart buildings. This would work on buildings only too perhaps.. if they did a heap less damage to marines that'd entirely prevent him from long-range-attacking.
Hmm... I agree on making the fade use it's close combat strengths more. Maybe blink can be made to be easier to use?
Edit: <b>Amante</b> already pointed this out as well, but I still miss a decent description on how blink could be made easier to use. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah ok, Im with flaming arguments because we're like 40 peoples that got **obscenity** off tonight by the new patch. And unfortunatly we're not n00bs and we found out pretty fast how the new version killed all decent challenge in the game.
Im not used to waist my time on forums, i just thought that it had to came out somewhere. Now sorry if someone got hurt.
As for my language or communication skills, well Im sorry, but English is just my 3rd language....
So here is my point. Im not talking about how the game could be or not be better. Im not the one making it. Im just a player and I dont pretent nuthin with some fancy typos. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
But as the game was at the start, marines were already ( just a little ) more powerfull.
Now Im talking here about 2 teams with the same kind of teamplay and individual skills.
But since the new version, Marines can be unbeatable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've read in another thread (heh, it rhymes) that blink would be easier if used out of a 'crouch jump'. Any confirmations on that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup. Jump, duck, aim at the ceiling, blink. A little training and you've got around 80% successes.
Thank you for the hint! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<i>/me</i> scuttles off into his secret dungeon lab to practice
it doesn't always work... i finally found that u hafta aim "high" for it to work... the cl_autohelp says jus aim at a wall and u can go right to it.. the manual even says it can go thru walls which i highly doubt : / ...
ok .. anwayyz.. about the game
i think wutppl are failing to understand is that a gorge can bascilaly take care of himself.... as long as he stays defensive and hides... he is safe... for example. in most games... i think ns_nancy or ns_caged... i often run up to HIVE POSITION: nuclear wastehandling by myself... make the resource.. tower and wait for the hive.... a lot of alien n00bs like to camp in our MAIN hive.. and we never expand .. thats why we lose..
i duno.. wut are the GAME ALTERING CHANGES of 1.03?? CAN ANYONE TELL ME...
if im not wrong.. siege kinda got NERFED cuz it needs more supply now..
Comments
<b>Skulks:</b>
I see 3 marines and I laugh as I get ready for an easy meal. I play with plenty of people who have the same reaction to 5 marines.
Turret farms are easily taken down by a few skulks taking turns at circle-strafing a turret. When all the turrets covering down one side of a TF is down (usually only takes 1 or 2) the TF goes down shortly after.
<b>Lerks:</b>
Even without adrenaline there is little reason for your feet to ever touch the ground. Learn to glide, learn to turn corners. Learn to use your spikes and to use your incredible speed to stay far away from marines (spikes are 100% accurate at any distance, even lmgs wont hit at any decent range). Get carapace to make maximum use of your massive amounts of armour.
Team up with a skulk and fly around to keep the marines distracted or team up with a fade and give them invulnerability!
<b>Fades</b>
Get 3 fades together and you have won the game. No amount of seige/ha/gren combos will stop these babies! Use blink to quickly surround an enemy or to fake going down certain corridors (ie at a T-junction you turn left and then blink to the right side).
Maybe I'm just playing on all the right (or wrong servers) but aliens have it waaaaay to easy in my opinion. It takes a very dedicated and team-playing marine squad to beat the aliens down...
Players Forum to help the newcomers there.
I especially liked the part with the fade and the t-junction.
That's absolutely brilliant! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, I have been struggling with Amantes claims for
quite some time now and I'm beginning to believe that his
main goal is not to change the way how aliens are supposed
to be played nor to make them 'easier to play'.
I'd rather say what he wants is, making the aliens 'better to get
into' for newcomers.
I have a pretty conservative stance on the matter of 'tweaking things
to death'. But for now I would be willing to make some compromises
to SOME of the points that were made.
Yet I still think the 'alpha player' thingie is not needed at all (Plus Amantes
still didn't come up with ideas as to HOW someone would deserve such
a title on a public server at all) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Started off very badly,skulk rush,almost got the entire base gone,but we managed to push first wave back.2nd wave,same thing.Ok got some turrets up,half downstairs,half at CC.Moved team to hera entrance.Majority of alien team keeps rushing at hera entrance,1 skulk rushed at comm chair,took out the 2 turrets by circle strafing(i was like "na...2 turrets....that skulk cant survive...."),rushed into cc room,i got out,shot it a few times but he had that damn carapace 3,died,respawned,got a 3 man squad up there,due to lag the skulk crossed the entire distance from comm chair to elevator in under a second(teleport),wiped out whole squad,i suspect due to skulk's teleportation field device that we never even scratched him,repeat till comm chair goes boom,at which point the hera entrance team got turrets up, got wiped out war of attrition against skulks,skulks circle strafed the turrets,wiped them out easily,then chomped the TF and RT,then 4 onos with 2 fades rushed into our base,as well as a lerk that kept sporing the entire area.
All this took 10-15 minutes.
Yea aliens are underpowered.
I don't envy the marine's job at all, it's tough and paranoiish.
That's why I draw my hat to any marine team winning, cause
I have tried and failed as a marine. I know a marine win is usually
a well deserved and hard fought for thing. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
This might lead to people on the alien team being jerks and downsizing their only gorge, but hey, I hate those damn acid rockets. Stupid fades strafing left and right, shooting those things and doing splash damage through walls. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And I see lots of people CLAIM about circlestrafing a factory to death, but you know what? I've never yet seen ANYONE pull it off. Oh, but I'm obviously a n00b, playing on n00b servers with my n00b friends. (In other words, STFU now before you flame. I'm not interested in hearing it)
The aliens aren't underpowered, persay, as much as, like aforementioned, they're hard to get into for most people. Hard to understand. That aside, though, they could use a few tweaks.
It seems a lot of other people agree with my assessment that the Fade should get acid rocket last -- after all, the fade is meant to be a teleporting badass that pops right in your face and claws the crap out of you. Not a rocketmonkey, which is how almost everyone plays them (although, more people might use the fade's teleport if it wasn't so **obscenity** hard to use).
Like I said, tweaks. For one, I'd like for some of the sensory upgrades besides cloaking to actually not suck. They're so crappy it's a joke. No one ever chooses anything besides cloaking from there -- anyone who's smart anyway.
And LagAdder, you obviously need to read a bit closer. BOTH times I remarked on the alpha male idea, I remarked how a person would get such a status -- having the most points (IE, kills, but I say points because I'd like to see gorges get points for building stuff and other such non-combat actions being rewarded in the future).
Keep the feedback coming guys.
qualify as a reference of leadership qualities, that's all.
'Other non-combat actions' should be specified in greater detail,
to help people to understand what you mean by that.
I also might note, that I am NOT agreeing in having acid rocket last.
My plea would rather be to have blink moved up to the 2nd slot.
As stated before, I think Bile Bomb should come last under any
circumstances.
Edit: Corrected a typo <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
PRICELESS!!! GO AMANTE!
Maybe the acid rocket shouldn't go last, but at least 3rd. And it should cost more energy. It's really annoying to see a fade bile bombing the base, and when some <b>punk</b> marine runs up with is LMG and starts firing from 5 feet, to see the fade run away firing his <b>BS</b> rocket at him instead of running up and clawing him to death. Thats a true rocketmonkey.
people are afraid of close combat. they much prefer to shoot from far away without risk of getting hurt. getting hurt is such a pain, dont you think? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the alpha male thing . . . just an idea. The leader would have no authority unlike the commander, but you could get bonuses to building / combat / defense by being around him in the field so it'd be good to heed what he says. And I think most kills is a pretty good method to determine who would be the alpha male -- it's basically like, "Hey, this player is the most skilled fighter, so he's your field commander, you should listen to him". All I know is the way it is now is the aliens have no unifying force, so it's a bit hard for them to work together sometimes. But I don't want to clone the commander or anything, just want them to have their own unique method of leadership. If you can show me any kind of military or fighting unit in real life that has succeeded without some kind of leadership, with everyone being on the same 'level' of authority, I'd be damn surprised . . .
is enough to have acid rocket and blink switch places to achieve
more close combatting fades, that's all.
You're saying having the highest kill ratio is an indicator of also
being the most competent strategist. I just think that's simply not true.
Someone getting extra priviliges because of leading the frag-list is only
poisoning the team spirit. I think they should remove the frag counters on the
alien side as well. Frags are a pointless thing in a teamplay oriented game.
The competition should be between the teams, not within the teams.
Also the Kharaa are no military unit. The concept is that of a
collective in wich each element is equally important. That's what
I like about them.
I wonder why all those other mods come along well without a commander.
Good teamwork needs no leader who dictates what to do next, imho.
Part of this is, I think, again, because of blink being such a pain in the **obscenity** to use. At the least, I'd like to see it tweaked a bit to work easier -- the way it is now, it's too hit or miss to rely on, I think (although I still like playing close combat fade with the claws).
And yes, you don't need a leader to have good teamplay. But the whole issue I've been trying to get across, which you obviously aren't getting, is the fact that it's pretty rare to see good teamplay on the public servers. So while the marines are being forced to work together more or less, a lot of times people on the alien team are going about doing their own thing, disregarding the needs of the team (like the aforementioned people who love to play gorge when there's already two of them and don't listen to people who tell them that they're crippling their team). So, I just thought, with some sort of field leader role with the aliens, maybe the average player would be more inspired to work together.
At the least, I'd like to see the blink change, and acid rocket made last on the lineup (with bile bomb being second last, obviously).
Apparently, you're insinuating that the fade melee attack is weak, like the welder. That's pretty retarded. Do some reading (and testing) and you'll realize that fades have the second best melee attack, and it's to be feared. Their whole METHOD is supposed to be teleporting in with blink and clawing the **obscenity** out of people. But what do I know? UZE ROCKETZ WITH FADZE$#*!
Instead of giving a <i>reasonable</i> explanation <i>why</i> someone would listen to the guy with
the most frags, you keep praying down your mantra of how important such a feature
would be.
<b>Thank you for the discussion, though</b>. You actually have quite some good ideas,
wich I will keep in mind and recommend/support in other suggestion threads.
<b>So please don't be grumpy with me</b> if I simply don't see the point of
having an 'alpha player'. Maybe you just weren't able to get it across
or I was too dumb to see it. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why thank you. He isn't the only one hoping for a move-around of Fade weaponry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You know, it's not like you see HA marines rushing in to attack fades with welders either. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now this is just silly. Once again, I point to the background. Is the IDEA of a HA Marine to go around meleeing with a welder? NO. So if the game is working right, no-one should want to.
And as for BB being 3rd, and AR going 4th. Well, if BB was 3rd, you'd see less farms, and comms would actually have to TRY, rather than just...
Step 1.... Get marines to next intersection
Step 2.... Build Turret Factory
Step 3.... Build Turrets on every conceivable surface
Repeat ad nauseum.
And. As a nice bonus. You marine players will finally not think the Fade is so unkillable. Because, having to rely on it's melee skills more, you get more chance to shoot at it. (Therefore, more chance they'll screw up and get shot to bits)
AND. Second nice bonus. People will lose the ravening obsession for Adren. I've been told now (I nearly wept) by seasoned players who I've played with before that "Aliens can't win without Adren" OH. MY. GOD. NO.
Hey Flayra, hope you're reading this, because for once this ISN'T a flame session.
And, I THANKEEYA.
The marine team is much more powerfull then ALiens since the very first start.
And I can tell, because when I command (since first version) I win all the time.
WHY PEOPLE TINK THAT ALIENS WER MORE POWERFULL b4?
Because all newbies were going Marines. And everytime I lost as a comdr it was because I had newbies in the team not knowing what to do.
All ur lil essaies sux, the guy that posted this msg here first was right. And some how, NS team come up with this new patch!!!! v1.03!!!!!
OMG! WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!! Now the marines are just invincible. I just did 10 consecutives games with decent players that Iv know on the server, and we won 10 times in 5 minutes rushing Aliens hive....
Cmon! it takes an hour to respawn for an alien, they get killed by 2 bullets, they cant share their res and it takes forever to build a 2nd hive.
This version as killed the game. Im going back to DoD until those guys doin the game realise that they got influenced by n00bs!!!!
spent more time under a trollbridge than in a commander's seat.
This makes it extremely difficult to respect your opinion. And it makes
it even tougher not to feel sorry for the DoD community.
<i>/me</i> puts up a 'don't feed the troll' sign
and pulls this thread back on topic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think <b>Amante</b> and the many other people posting on this thread
have made this a rather interesting discussion with very good (and
sometimes bold) suggestions about how the game could be tweaked
to be more fun for everyone.
It should stay that way.
That would make the fade as powerful as an onos at end game for running in and going WHOOOSH and taking out heaps of stuff in one attack... and he'd want to be able to, cos after that he's not going anywhere till he gets his energy back.
Oh yeah, alpha male idea.. ba-bowwww. There is absolutely no way it can be fairly decided that someone is an alpha-male, if anything it'll give the mongrel a big head.
Ideas gentlemen??
Without entirely incompentent marines the game is theres.
3 wins striaght by doing this: all marines rush outside of main hive... set up turrets and then seige right off the bat
4 straight wins by just rushing the main hive in general.
its just not possible to stop a group of more than 3 marines with any number of sulks.
I mean before if you got in close that means the marine was dead... but now you need to follow them around blindly biting with the hope your going the right direction.
If the guy aiming for you doesn't kill, you the spray will.
We lost 5 sulks in 10 seconds to 3 marines basically randomally spraying in our direction.
The marines are basically given a hive now. More than that if they have the brains to split up and take them both or simply attack the exsisting hive, there is no way to stop them.
I say put sulks back as they were. But give marines standard turret factory in spawn so they dont get rushed the hell out of every round like last beta.
spent more time under a trollbridge than in a commander's seat.
This makes it extremely difficult to respect your opinion. And it makes
it even tougher not to feel sorry for the DoD community.
<i>/me</i> puts up a 'don't feed the troll' sign
and pulls this thread back on topic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think <b>Amante</b> and the many other people posting on this thread
have made this a rather interesting discussion with very good (and
sometimes bold) suggestions about how the game could be tweaked
to be more fun for everyone.
It should stay that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah yes, ignoring that guy popping up would be better than paying him out.. after all, this thread is for discussion.. not flame/arguments. I think we can safely just ignore DSSG_Nitro's input for now.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh yes, i had a rethink of my last post:
Acid rocket replaced by bile bomb.. making it:
slash, blink, bile bomb, cleave.
Still, some fella's point remains - the fade is a melee machine, not a long range sniper. At least with no acid rocket he has to get up close, it just so happens that when he's up close his bile bomb will rip apart buildings. This would work on buildings only too perhaps.. if they did a heap less damage to marines that'd entirely prevent him from long-range-attacking.
Maybe blink can be made to be easier to use?
Edit: <b>Amante</b> already pointed this out as well, but I still miss a decent
description on how blink could be made easier to use. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
And unfortunatly we're not n00bs and we found out pretty fast how the new version killed all decent challenge in the game.
Im not used to waist my time on forums, i just thought that it had to came out somewhere. Now sorry if someone got hurt.
As for my language or communication skills, well Im sorry, but English is just my 3rd language....
So here is my point.
Im not talking about how the game could be or not be better. Im not the one making it. Im just a player and I dont pretent nuthin with some fancy typos. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
But as the game was at the start, marines were already ( just a little ) more powerfull.
Now Im talking here about 2 teams with the same kind of teamplay and individual skills.
But since the new version, Marines can be unbeatable.
thats my lil pov.
that blink would be easier if used out of a 'crouch jump'.
Any confirmations on that?
Edit: <b>@ianski</b> Cleave - Hmmm... you mean it would be something
like slash, only with a wider range to the front and the side with
more damage?
that blink would be easier if used out of a 'crouch jump'.
Any confirmations on that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup. Jump, duck, aim at the ceiling, blink. A little training and you've got around 80% successes.
<i>/me</i> scuttles off into his secret dungeon lab to practice
it doesn't always work... i finally found that u hafta aim "high" for it to work... the cl_autohelp says jus aim at a wall and u can go right to it.. the manual even says it can go thru walls which i highly doubt : / ...
ok .. anwayyz.. about the game
i think wutppl are failing to understand is that a gorge can bascilaly take care of himself.... as long as he stays defensive and hides... he is safe... for example. in most games... i think ns_nancy or ns_caged... i often run up to HIVE POSITION: nuclear wastehandling by myself... make the resource.. tower and wait for the hive.... a lot of alien n00bs like to camp in our MAIN hive.. and we never expand .. thats why we lose..
i duno.. wut are the GAME ALTERING CHANGES of 1.03?? CAN ANYONE TELL ME...
if im not wrong.. siege kinda got NERFED cuz it needs more supply now..