Hand Grenade(s)?
Jimyd
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is it making a return?</div>Title is pretty self explanatory.
Can we confirm if the Hand Grenade(s) is/are coming back?
Will we auto-spawn with it in our inventory, or will we buy it from the Armory?
Also will we be able to ressuply the Hand Grenade(s) at the armory?
Can we confirm if the Hand Grenade(s) is/are coming back?
Will we auto-spawn with it in our inventory, or will we buy it from the Armory?
Also will we be able to ressuply the Hand Grenade(s) at the armory?
Comments
gotta be be real careful with giving every marine re-usable nades though, especially in a game as riddle as small hallways and chokepoints as NS. I personally liked having the nades limited, because that made you a bit more choosy one when to use them, in stead of "ok, I'll throw these two, phase back, get some more, throws some more, no biggie"
That is only true if the GL addon doesn't explode on impact, which I think it will and should.
Hand Grenades allow you to lob over barricades/structures, with secondary fire being an underhand throw.
Plus I expect the GL addon to cost like 10/15 resources, where the Hand Grenade(s) is 5/10 resources. (All depends how many you get in the inventory.)
**********
Hoping for a DEV response.
<b>My take is that the Marines should be allowed to carry 1 Hand Grenade only. They would be free, after they have been researched by the Marine Commander. You would not spawn with a Hand Grenade, and the only way to supply/resupply it would be to go to a Built Powered Armory.
Optional restriction, it takes the same inventory slot as the Welder.</b>
I'd die with it more often than not. It didn't do enough damage (and IIRC it had really glitchy throw physics) so unless you had EVERYONE throw their grenade at once you'd maybe get a lucky skulk kill. Maybe.
I'd say two, at least two.
Ya you would horde them until you knew you were dead, it reminds me of Martyrdom in COD:MW4 now that I have played that game. They were useful for flushing skulks out of vents, and lobbing them at Gorges behind OC Walls and Alien structures.
Although the damage was funky (since they were not Frag Grenades but more like High-Explosive Grenades), and you could glitch the explosion damage/radius in earlier builds.
See my post above yours. They also kind of functioned like Counter-Strike Grenades if I remember right, where jumping made them fly further and higher.
I have no idea why you think this is true. Hand nades explode on impact. You get 2 when you spawn. One isn't enough to kill a gorge (and shouldn't be, that would be clearly overpowered) but they can kill multiple skulks at a time. Maybe you guys should install and play 3.2 again for a refresher? The underhanded throw is useless and annoying (it happens whenever you duck, even during a jump).
edit: also, like any explosion in ns, buildings (including hives) don't block the damage so you can kill a gorge on top the hive just by chucking a few at the hive. It's total bs and the most overpowered function of the hand nades.
edit: also, like any explosion in ns, buildings (including hives) don't block the damage so you can kill a gorge on top the hive just by chucking a few at the hive. It's total bs and the most overpowered function of the hand nades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aparently you did not read my sentence correctly, I know they do not explode on impact in NS1. However, in NS2 I believe they will, and they should if they don't.
By impact I meant on walls(map structure), where on players they detonate... which has always been true.
I think if a Gorge without any upgrades stands perfectly on a Hand Grenade, they are left with like less than 30 HP and no AP or something like that.
However they functioned like a High-Explosive Grenade (which is OP, I agree), but they should function like an actual Frag Grenade.
*****
The keyword in my sentence you quoted on that you missed was, <b>if</b>, by the way.
Oh ok, I was interpreting impact as players and structures. You're correct, most of the utility of hand grenades is from the fact that they bounce off walls (and around corners). The fact that the damage teleports through structures is something I believe physics will fix in NS2 (for nades, flamethrower and MASC, hopefully). Another aspect of grenades that I hope will be fixed is the stupidly large and obscuring explosion sprites. Physics can easily simulate a more realistic explosion with smoke that obscures in a less annoying way (and is also less "exploitable" since people can and did modify the explosion sprite). Also, though it wasn't clear my last post wasn't only responding to you but some inaccuracies in Temphage's posts, but I stand by the idea that hand nades would be redundant in NS2.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107720" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=107720</a>
- you can restock grenades, but for a cost in credits. First two (you spawn with) are always free.
This way, it there would still be a way to restock grenades, but people who just want to spam wouldn't be able to do that for long.
- you can restock grenades, but for a cost in credits. First two (you spawn with) are always free.
This way, it there would still be a way to restock grenades, but people who just want to spam wouldn't be able to do that for long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the Armory will have a animation delay when you walk up to it, so you can not just buy stuff instantly. Something like 1-3 seconds.
This would solve all spam problems, including buying weapon spam.
Myself, I would rather have 1 very useful Grenade with good physics, than 2 subpar Grenades.
<!--quoteo(post=1736979:date=Nov 10 2009, 12:52 AM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Nov 10 2009, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This actually looks like a legit thread to post on this topic.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107720" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=107720</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just did.
They explicitly said it wouldn't have a delay.
<!--quoteo(post=1722367:date=Aug 12 2009, 07:06 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Aug 12 2009, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722367"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An unlimited number of players can use the armory at the same time and you can use it from any angle; the "stations" are just decorative.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1722645:date=Aug 13 2009, 12:16 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 13 2009, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was very important to us to make sure the player doesn't have to wait around due to any visual aspect of the armory. The animation of the arms folding out will start as soon as a player is facing the armory and approaching it, and as soon as they hit the use key they can access the buy menu, even if the animation is finishing up. Then as soon as they have purchased their weapon, there will be some particle effects, and the weapon will instantly appear in their hands (with full ammo), even if the animation on the armory is still playing the scan/print animation.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mean there should be maybe at least 1 second delay, so we don't see bunny hopping Marines bounce by and buy all their stuff in 1/4 second with buy binds/scripts.
Ya I know that was an exaggeration, but you see the point I am making.
I'd die with it more often than not. It didn't do enough damage (and IIRC it had really glitchy throw physics) so unless you had EVERYONE throw their grenade at once you'd maybe get a lucky skulk kill. Maybe.
I'd say two, at least two.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 v 3.2 has two nades per Marine, and while a single won't kill a skulk it is more useful to toss one at a group of skulks to wound multiples while your buddies finish them off or wound them prior to the nade going off. They were also very useful for tossing down on a phase gate that was under attack (prep and phase before tossing) as the first two people would clear the skulks off the gate even if they died.
I would not like to see them reloaded for free, too useful and would be easily spammed in any location with resupply. It would have been nice to have a reload all feature though like beacon that filled everyone's supply for a cost.
I mean there should be maybe at least 1 second delay, so we don't see bunny hopping Marines bounce by and buy all their stuff in 1/4 second with buy binds/scripts.
Ya I know that was an exaggeration, but you see the point I am making.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given how moddable they are suggesting NS2 will be, I'd counter with "Anything you want will be possible on modified servers. Just choose your server wisely"
Ya, I hope there will be a sv_pure 0/1/2 setting like in Counter-Strike: Source, so we can find vanilla servers.
This would solve all spam problems, including buying weapon spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could also be called a Denial Of Service attack. One person keeps buying grenades, forcing everyone else to wait for animation. Other people can't buy at the time.
Suppose the animation is separate for each player - each of them is slowed independently. That would just mean you need a bit more people to spam an entrance to human base, and keep Kharaa siege away indefinitely.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Myself, I would rather have 1 very useful Grenade with good physics, than 2 subpar Grenades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What matters for me is the ability to cook grenades. This means they would bounce just fine, and would explode after timer like 4 seconds. But you could hold them in your hand for a while before throwing, so that they explode right beside your target (if timed well).
That would be soo hard to balance and to make it work fluidly.
There is no worry though. Each Marine/Alien will get his own Resource Pool, and then there is the "Commander Pool" for the Marine and Alien Commander.
I had a huge thread I was creating that could explain it a while back, but my Login timed out or something at the time, so I'll try and do a short summary of it right now.
Say like 3 Resources ticked in from 3 different Resource Towers. Each Resource Tower brings in 1 RES per tick, so if you had 3, that is 3 RES per collective tick. Now lets say you have 5 Marines and 1 Marine in the Commander position.
That means that Marine A, B, C, D, E, and F, all recieve 3 Resources for that collective tick. The Marine Commander Pool also recieves 3 Resources for that collective tick. Marine F also gets his 3 Resources from the collective tick while in the Command Chair, but he/she cannot use them while inside the Command Chair since it is a seperate Resource Pool from the Commander Pool.
If that is not simplified enough for anyone to understand, then I'll make a post on it if there is enough replies from everyone asking me to go into detail. I might even make some diagrams if you all are nice enough about it.
The GL attachment for the MG replaces the NS1 Grenade Launcher, no word on the Hand Grenade(s).
Since the Grenade Launcher in NS1 made you very vulnerable because you would have to give up your primary weapon.
As for the hand grenades, I quite liked them in NS although I felt the throwing mechanism was a bit "off". But I liked using them to weaken lifeforms, clear vents, or just to make sure nobody is camping around the corner. Although with the GL attachment, depending on the cost of the GL attachment, probably fills these roles better than a hand grenade will.
The only difference would be bouncing the grenade but I'll have to know more about the cost of the GL attachment to get a balanced idea.
Since the Grenade Launcher in NS1 made you very vulnerable because you would have to give up your primary weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression that it also replaced the hand nades as well. Not sure why I was thinking that
As for the hand grenades, I quite liked them in NS although I felt the throwing mechanism was a bit "off". But I liked using them to weaken lifeforms, clear vents, or just to make sure nobody is camping around the corner. Although with the GL attachment, depending on the cost of the GL attachment, probably fills these roles better than a hand grenade will.
The only difference would be bouncing the grenade but I'll have to know more about the cost of the GL attachment to get a balanced idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is my take on it. Like I said, I was making a thread on it that was pretty long, but my connection timed out and I forgot to copy+paste it into Notepad. Didn't feel like redoing the whole thing at the time. So yeah.
However, if you think about it, it is the most logical way to balance both sides very easily.
Unless the DEVs got some magic rabbit in a top hat that they are going to pull out for the resource model, I think my idea is most likely.
Sorry for the confusion.
=)
(And like I said... I'd be willing to make a thread on it, with diagrams, and go into further detail if a few people want me to.)
If there are to be nades they would need to be a purchasable item like ammo packs.