<!--quoteo(post=1737527:date=Nov 14 2009, 01:35 AM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Nov 14 2009, 01:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;restockable grenades are just really stupid. 20 million insta skulk killers woo&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Actually it would be worse if they spawn with them, than having to buy them for 3/5 Resources a pop. Do you even read the threads? Does the word balance not factor in into anyone's mind when they post?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I guess it is not as bad as the steam forums, that place is a warzone of whining if you just hint at the word change.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*****&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lets factor this in, Phasegates are no more (as far as I can tell), and Squad Spawning is in. Dynamic Infestation will most likely stop Marines onto the Squad Leader, and if that doesn't work, you could just kill the Squad Leader to stop the spawns. To spawn at the squad leader, you have to +use on a button at the Infantry Portal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now I believe a NS2 Grenade shouldn't be a 1-hit kill. Also it should not explode when it touches an Alien mid flight. It also should be modeled after a Frag Grenade and not a HE Grenade. So unless the Alien sits on top of the Grenade purposely, the damage would be limited due to the physics of the weapon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*****&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now everyone is up to speed, again. Sigh.<br /><br />
(Regarding the phasing, it's all speculative, but it is what has been hinted at.)<br /><br />
I would say "no" to hand-grenades unless they solve a <b>specific</b> purpose, for example: <ul><li>An anti-camping tool due to map designs</li><li>A "bought" item to increase loadout variation</li><li>Because players expect it in a shooter set during the modern-day.</li><li>Because it counteracts a specific weapon or strategy by the enemy.</li></ul>
We'll see whether NS2 <b>needs</b> hand-grenades. I'd imagine camping is punished by losing the resource war. Marines don't buy things themselves. It's not a "realistic" (heavy air-quotes) game that needs them, and so far I don't see how they are needed as an indirect-fire capability against the Kharaa since they are primarily melee fighters anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1737098:date=Nov 10 2009, 01:42 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Nov 10 2009, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ya, I hope there will be a sv_pure 0/1/2 setting like in Counter-Strike: Source, so we can find vanilla servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> sv_pure actually locks down what the clients can customize (ex. skins, sounds, etc.) in order to prevent cheats. Whether it's on or off doesn't relate to whether the server is an instakill lowgrav instaspawn modded whatever.
<!--quoteo(post=1738356:date=Nov 20 2009, 01:01 AM:name=Terr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Terr @ Nov 20 2009, 01:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1738356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sv_pure actually locks down what the clients can customize (ex. skins, sounds, etc.) in order to prevent cheats. Whether it's on or off doesn't relate to whether the server is an instakill lowgrav instaspawn modded whatever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I knew that. =)
But that does not mean they can modify it to also include game settings like gravity and stuff.
sv_purecontent sv_contantfilter
W/E they want to call it.
Also, generally a lowgrav server will also have sv_pure 0 as well when looking for a CS:S server. It kind of goes hand-in-hand with custom content and plugins that alter gameplay.
=)
*****
I'm guessing since Marines will not be going into vents anymore, Hand Grenades do server a purpose of flushing Skulks/Gorges/Lerks out of vents.
Another thing, all these points are viable in NS2:
•An anti-camping tool due to map designs. (Marines can't enter vents, OC Walls, and a cluster of Alien Lifeforms, take your pick.) •A "bought" item to increase loadout variation. (See point 3.) •Because players expect it in a shooter set during the modern-day. (This is the same as point 2.) •Because it counteracts a specific weapon or strategy by the enemy. (Umbra, and that is just 1 known thing.)
Hand Grenades are very viable, especially since I think the GL attachment will be an impact type of Grenade, and not a rebounding one. Also, Hand Grenades would cost less, but probably not restockable via free Armory ressuply. Where the GL will automatically fill up when using the Armory. This is because you do not lose your attachment after using all your GL rounds, hence it is why it is called a GL attachment to the MG.
<!--quoteo(post=1738551:date=Nov 21 2009, 02:04 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Nov 21 2009, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1738551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But that does not mean they can modify it to also include game settings like gravity and stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whaaat? If the client can independently set a different gravity value from the server and have it mean something, you've got <b><u>much</u></b> bigger problems.
All you need to do is inform players. If certain variables are not set to default, players can see what those variables are before/during joining the server.
<!--quoteo(post=1738565:date=Nov 21 2009, 02:43 PM:name=Terr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Terr @ Nov 21 2009, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1738565"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whaaat? If the client can independently set a different gravity value from the server and have it mean something, you've got <b><u>much</u></b> bigger problems.
All you need to do is inform players. If certain variables are not set to default, players can see what those variables are before/during joining the server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do I really need to write a full 2 page essay to explain things every single time I post something? Please use some common sense. Of course you would not be able to set low gravity client-side.
What I meant was, you include things like custom models/sounds/whatever plus server values that don't constitue as vanilla gameplay, I.E. server gravity and respawn times, all into 1 setting "like" sv_pure. Call it sv_standardfilter, 0 for off and 1 for on.
...Wow... FACEPALM.
Server lists should show game "mods/plugins" just like how STEAM does it with server tags.
Can we go back to the OP's original topic now? I think this has been cleared up. -_-
I just finish explaining what sv_pure does (enforcing restrictions on the <b>client</b>) and you say: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But that does not mean they can modify it to also include game settings like gravity and stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your comment makes no sense either way. One one hand, it makes no sense for it to "enforce agreement on gravity", since that shouldn't be able to differ anyway. On the other hand, it's makes no sense to say "make it also include..." something that is entirely alien to its mode of operation.
It's like talking about passengers on a bus, and then you say: "The bus could be modified to carry justice and freedom".
I liked how the seemingly weak nades became pretty destructive while used in groups. Killing healing gorges on hives has never been so satifying. I've also seen a few beautiful lerk nadings when a group suddenly lobs 4-5 nades to the vent. Most often it requires some sleepy lerk or some kind of block to prevent the lerk from dodging early enough though.
The public server nade spammage isn't particularly exciting, but I think it gave the bad aimers a decent extra purpose on rushes. I wouldn't consider nades crucial in NS, but they certainly had some noteworthy positive features that could appear in NS2 in one way or the other.
<!--quoteo(post=1738611:date=Nov 21 2009, 11:11 PM:name=Terr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Terr @ Nov 21 2009, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1738611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just finish explaining what sv_pure does (enforcing restrictions on the <b>client</b>) and you say:
Your comment makes no sense either way. <b>One one hand, it makes no sense for it to "enforce agreement on gravity"</b>, <u>since that shouldn't be able to differ anyway</u>. On the other hand, it's makes no sense to say "make it also include..." something that is entirely alien to its mode of operation.
It's like talking about passengers on a bus, and then you say: "The bus could be modified to carry justice and freedom".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are saying it is not possible to code in a command that locks all mp_/cl_/sv_ game settings that would be outside the variables of "default" gameplay, while also server as a dual purpose of locking clientside models/sounds customization.
Think like if sv_pure and mp_blockscripts were combined into one server setting. Do people really don't think at all?
I never said the <b>bolded</b> words.
<u>Underlined</u> is your words.
Do you not understand the words "like" and "dual purpose", come on now.
Apparently you cannot comprehend the meaning of my statements of what I am saying, "Make a server setting/command that dual functions like sv_pure and mp_blockscripts."
Like wow... I know the english language is hard and all, and that if you say one word it could mean two different things depending on how you say it, but lets some common sense.
Also, this should be a thread all in its own at this point, I mean I'll just delete my posts regarding my sv_pure statements(and that is not admitting defeat) if I really need to, just so you are not "confused" anymore. Either that, or make all further discussions about the sv_pure topic directly through PMs, since I do not want to have to remake this thread about the OP's topic (which would be me by the way.)
Also I already have a thread in the I&S forums about this paticular topic anyways now that I remember, so why don't you go search it out and discuss it there with me if you don't want to PM me directly. It is called sv_pure/mp_blockscripts in the title I think. (And no, this is not backseat moderating, more like imidiating my own thread.)
TL;DR: Stop posting in this thread if you skipped to here.
Comments
I guess it is not as bad as the steam forums, that place is a warzone of whining if you just hint at the word change.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*****&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lets factor this in, Phasegates are no more (as far as I can tell), and Squad Spawning is in. Dynamic Infestation will most likely stop Marines onto the Squad Leader, and if that doesn't work, you could just kill the Squad Leader to stop the spawns. To spawn at the squad leader, you have to +use on a button at the Infantry Portal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now I believe a NS2 Grenade shouldn't be a 1-hit kill. Also it should not explode when it touches an Alien mid flight. It also should be modeled after a Frag Grenade and not a HE Grenade. So unless the Alien sits on top of the Grenade purposely, the damage would be limited due to the physics of the weapon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*****&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now everyone is up to speed, again. Sigh.<br /><br />
(Regarding the phasing, it's all speculative, but it is what has been hinted at.)<br /><br />
Holy###### the forums are broken. =O
see an alien run past the corridor? Lob a grenade around the corner just to be safe.
But the biggest concern : See a vent? Think you hear some noise up there? Toss a nade and wait for the squeal.
Control Panel -> Board Settings -> "Type of text editor to use when posting" -> Standard
<ul><li>An anti-camping tool due to map designs</li><li>A "bought" item to increase loadout variation</li><li>Because players expect it in a shooter set during the modern-day.</li><li>Because it counteracts a specific weapon or strategy by the enemy.</li></ul>
We'll see whether NS2 <b>needs</b> hand-grenades. I'd imagine camping is punished by losing the resource war. Marines don't buy things themselves. It's not a "realistic" (heavy air-quotes) game that needs them, and so far I don't see how they are needed as an indirect-fire capability against the Kharaa since they are primarily melee fighters anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1737098:date=Nov 10 2009, 01:42 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Nov 10 2009, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ya, I hope there will be a sv_pure 0/1/2 setting like in Counter-Strike: Source, so we can find vanilla servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sv_pure actually locks down what the clients can customize (ex. skins, sounds, etc.) in order to prevent cheats. Whether it's on or off doesn't relate to whether the server is an instakill lowgrav instaspawn modded whatever.
I knew that. =)
But that does not mean they can modify it to also include game settings like gravity and stuff.
sv_purecontent
sv_contantfilter
W/E they want to call it.
Also, generally a lowgrav server will also have sv_pure 0 as well when looking for a CS:S server. It kind of goes hand-in-hand with custom content and plugins that alter gameplay.
=)
*****
I'm guessing since Marines will not be going into vents anymore, Hand Grenades do server a purpose of flushing Skulks/Gorges/Lerks out of vents.
Another thing, all these points are viable in NS2:
•An anti-camping tool due to map designs. (Marines can't enter vents, OC Walls, and a cluster of Alien Lifeforms, take your pick.)
•A "bought" item to increase loadout variation. (See point 3.)
•Because players expect it in a shooter set during the modern-day. (This is the same as point 2.)
•Because it counteracts a specific weapon or strategy by the enemy. (Umbra, and that is just 1 known thing.)
Hand Grenades are very viable, especially since I think the GL attachment will be an impact type of Grenade, and not a rebounding one. Also, Hand Grenades would cost less, but probably not restockable via free Armory ressuply. Where the GL will automatically fill up when using the Armory. This is because you do not lose your attachment after using all your GL rounds, hence it is why it is called a GL attachment to the MG.
Whaaat? If the client can independently set a different gravity value from the server and have it mean something, you've got <b><u>much</u></b> bigger problems.
All you need to do is inform players. If certain variables are not set to default, players can see what those variables are before/during joining the server.
All you need to do is inform players. If certain variables are not set to default, players can see what those variables are before/during joining the server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do I really need to write a full 2 page essay to explain things every single time I post something? Please use some common sense. Of course you would not be able to set low gravity client-side.
What I meant was, you include things like custom models/sounds/whatever plus server values that don't constitue as vanilla gameplay, I.E. server gravity and respawn times, all into 1 setting "like" sv_pure. Call it sv_standardfilter, 0 for off and 1 for on.
...Wow... FACEPALM.
Server lists should show game "mods/plugins" just like how STEAM does it with server tags.
Can we go back to the OP's original topic now? I think this has been cleared up. -_-
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But that does not mean they can modify it to also include game settings like gravity and stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your comment makes no sense either way. One one hand, it makes no sense for it to "enforce agreement on gravity", since that shouldn't be able to differ anyway. On the other hand, it's makes no sense to say "make it also include..." something that is entirely alien to its mode of operation.
It's like talking about passengers on a bus, and then you say: "The bus could be modified to carry justice and freedom".
The public server nade spammage isn't particularly exciting, but I think it gave the bad aimers a decent extra purpose on rushes. I wouldn't consider nades crucial in NS, but they certainly had some noteworthy positive features that could appear in NS2 in one way or the other.
Or the individual Marine can get an upgrade to get 1/2 Nades per Spawn.
Your comment makes no sense either way. <b>One one hand, it makes no sense for it to "enforce agreement on gravity"</b>, <u>since that shouldn't be able to differ anyway</u>. On the other hand, it's makes no sense to say "make it also include..." something that is entirely alien to its mode of operation.
It's like talking about passengers on a bus, and then you say: "The bus could be modified to carry justice and freedom".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are saying it is not possible to code in a command that locks all mp_/cl_/sv_ game settings that would be outside the variables of "default" gameplay, while also server as a dual purpose of locking clientside models/sounds customization.
Think like if sv_pure and mp_blockscripts were combined into one server setting. Do people really don't think at all?
I never said the <b>bolded</b> words.
<u>Underlined</u> is your words.
Do you not understand the words "like" and "dual purpose", come on now.
Apparently you cannot comprehend the meaning of my statements of what I am saying, "Make a server setting/command that dual functions like sv_pure and mp_blockscripts."
Like wow... I know the english language is hard and all, and that if you say one word it could mean two different things depending on how you say it, but lets some common sense.
Also, this should be a thread all in its own at this point, I mean I'll just delete my posts regarding my sv_pure statements(and that is not admitting defeat) if I really need to, just so you are not "confused" anymore. Either that, or make all further discussions about the sv_pure topic directly through PMs, since I do not want to have to remake this thread about the OP's topic (which would be me by the way.)
Also I already have a thread in the I&S forums about this paticular topic anyways now that I remember, so why don't you go search it out and discuss it there with me if you don't want to PM me directly. It is called sv_pure/mp_blockscripts in the title I think. (And no, this is not backseat moderating, more like imidiating my own thread.)
TL;DR: Stop posting in this thread if you skipped to here.