Just something to put out there..

Black opsBlack ops Join Date: 2009-11-03 Member: 69255Members
edited November 2009 in NS General Discussion
First off I wanna say Hi, but I just want to see what your view on this is.

I usually pop into this server Guns4Back2School, it's a good community server and its fun to play at (pretty active too). I've been playing NS for about about 2 years on and off but I've run into something rather strange lately. Sometimes I decide to play on other servers like <GUD> or <BAD> (actually GUD is now called EvolveNS or something now). Anyways, I was playing on EvolveNS today and as an alien I started becoming annoyed a bit. This is about those ridiculous marines with symbols next to their names when you press Tab, which only go marines every game, and which end up with a score of like 34 - 2 at the end of the game. I mean.. seriously? Who's gonna draw the line when a guy is using auto-pistol and killing 2 good skulks with 1 clip of pistol (while they're dodging and bhopping)?

Ze point I'm trying to make: I and most other NS players (specifically aliens) who want to play the game don't want to be a meatbag which has bullets poured into it, while some guy is holding an Aiming key and yawning while he holds his firing button. If it were meant to be so, the rules should say something like: "We support hackers (aimbotters, wallhackers, and the such) 100%, we will not ban them but rather we will incorporate them as admins, or clan members."
I only don't speak up because most likely these clan members will get red-faced when accused of hacking..

Of course though, if you disregard all of what I've just said, and lets just say that "You really are 'that' good". Why would you go marine every round then?.. and then ignore people who tell you to go aliens.. and/or then if you do go aliens you utterly suck and end up dropping chambers? I mean.. some times you just have to draw the limit. Auto-pistoling is obviously allowed but you shouldn't be able to hit a lerk with 100% accuracy down a hallway while the lerk is dodging, or something like that. I've seen it, and had it happen to me as well. Marines are 'supposed' to miss. Speed and alien size are a part of the game, and aiming extremely well to the point where your accuracy is above 90% inhumanly, or humanly, I think merits some investigation.

The proposed solution:
If you are one of those players, please learn how to play as Alien, so that you don't have to go marine every round just to get a few kills. You will die at first but you'll get better at it.. Thanks to some people who helped me get my point across, helped me to write this, and thanks for reading. I/We hope to see comments soon.

Also another point I forgot to make before.. NS games without these annoyingly good marines seem to last longer, be more fun for the players, and be very well balanced. Once these players join its just 'Marines Dominate until JPS and then kill hive'


  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    edited November 2009
    1. Posting complaints about private communities isn't allowed on the nsforums (though the nsforums are so stagnant nowadays no one actually cares). The correct place to complain *but I don't think it would be a good idea* is www.evolvens.com.

    2. The server in question is one of a few handful of servers which have a forced random plugin, you may have noticed it, however this is circumvented by the regulars going "afk" thus bypassing being autoassigned and allowing them to choose the team they're on. I don't think that many people do this.

    3. If you think people are cheating then you probably are 'that' bad, evolvens has a very low tolerance for newer or non-learning players;
    the classic rine pub stomp has now effectually become the norm on all public servers, the decline in popularity and standard principals of the general upper echelon of the game now make this inevitable. (I could go into a much less bullpoopty, more concrete model of why I think this is but let's not deviate too much).

    The scripting argument is as old as the game itself, though most of the antiscripters have stopped playing (I'm fairly alone on this nowadays :P, I only switched to using mwheel to jump this year because for the longest time I was damned if I was going to reduce myself to pleb level :P).

    A lot of high level players would be able to pistol whip you without using a script (though ofc there are many factors, but on a good day nothing much is gonna stop you from dying anyway), dodging works in tiers of awareness(again no time for bullpoop free explanations) generally speaking better players will have as much better idea of what you're going to do than you are of what they're going to do so acts as a natural advantage.

    Never admit you're an average player then accuse others of cheating, it's called getting owned, deal with it.

    4. People go marine every round and ignore everyone for 2 reasons: 1. there is no point trying to play as a team with people who are incapable of doing so. 2. they don't wanna
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    What Ziggy said.

    Also, never ever complain about scripting or cheating. If you honestly suspect some one of cheating, make a demo and send it to the server admins (make sure to get their steam ID in there).

    As for scripting, The quick run down:
    Scripting doesn't let you do anything a reasonably skilled player can't do with out scripts. In the case of pistol scripting there is a hard coded RoF cap on the pistol, it can't be broken with out cheats, and it can be reached by skilled players who simply spam Mouse1. It can also be reached by moderately skilled players (my self) who use MWheel for +attack (I can reach it with clicking, but my aim goes to bugger all). Any one who uses a script to hit the RoF cap is useless as you can not enter ANY other commands when a script is running (this includes Mouse look iirc). Aka, you can't do anything outside of firing your pistol. Sound useful? It isn't.

    As for the "You are too good as marines, go alien!" line, it is kinda dumb. You complain about not having fun playing how you want to play, yet seem to think that others should sacrifice their enjoyment by playing how you want them to play instead of how the want to play.

    sorry mate, as ZiGGY pointed out, playing Aliens with a team that can't work together sucks, and thus people pop on simply to dominate as marines because they can.
  • C4K3C4K3 Join Date: 2008-01-26 Member: 63502Banned, Constellation
  • SlickWillSlickWill Join Date: 2004-02-17 Member: 26642Members, Constellation
    Somehow on servers like EvolveNS there are plenty of players that manage very positive scores on aliens against those same "hacking" players you speak of.

    THe reason this occurs......now follow me here.........is.........................they don't suck ass.

    PS. The same players that dominate on EvolveNS go to Guns and dominate there where scripting isn't allowed. Quite frankly, I can't stand playing on Guns, it's like playing with a server full of people with railroad spikes driven into their heads.
  • Black opsBlack ops Join Date: 2009-11-03 Member: 69255Members
    Well ok.. I'll accept that they really are just good players and that I can skulk kill them while they got their nice little weapons/jps. I see you're hinting that I'm an average player or just some noob who's complaining. No, I've been around HL and mods since I was about 10 and I pop in once in a while. It's pretty fun and I consider myself fairly good.. but marines seems boring to me once you get as good as those players.
    My final view is that if these players honestly have fun walking around with a pistol and killing skulks/fades, let them. But stacking marine team every round seems suspicious and annoying, because this game requires teamplay and a team which is efficient in sacrificing themselves for the team, and getting their own joy-kills. Personally I love aliens much better, as I said. Marines seems to linear to me now.. In my mind its more like 'Shoot the meat-bag and if it has too much hp you'll die'. So, alien just makes it seem funner for me. It's challenging and fun, and I just look at those gloating 43-2 marines and think 'Wow, what a nerdy kid.' I guess I could say it twists my face a little. This makes me think so many more things like 'Why gloat when you have guns?' or 'I think that alien guy you're mad at is a good guy and you're some pissed off kid who likes his heavy weaponry and ramboing'.
    I could go into that, but I think I'll just end it here.. saying that mostly it has to do with what is called 'skill stacking'.

    Anyways, I love the game, love the players, and I'm gonna keep on playing NS probably for the rest of my life. till I'm an old man on a mic.
  • LeonLeon Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58131Members
    edited November 2009
    What Ziggy said. If you don't like it, play somewhere else. We aren't going to be catering to baddies any time soon.
  • ehshoehsho Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69264Members
    edited November 2009
    <!--QuoteBegin-"Black ops"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Black ops")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I see you're hinting that I'm an average player or just some noob who's complaining. No, I've been around HL and mods since I was about 10 and I pop in once in a while. It's pretty fun and I consider myself fairly good.. but marines seems boring to me once you get as good as those players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Playing since you were 10 says nothing about your skill or whether or not you're a noob. Plenty of people who have played the game longer than me and amazingly terrible at the game and at understanding what is going on in the game. I consider myself to be the best player of NS, however the people who regularly dominate me tend to disagree.
    The fact that you mention an "aiming key" makes me think you don't have quite as much skill as you seem to think. I'm not sure why you would consider the 43-2 marine a nerdy kid. I'd focus more on the guy who walker skulks said marine 43 times in between complaints of hacker marines/scripting.
  • KilalotKilalot Join Date: 2004-01-15 Member: 25355Awaiting Authorization, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1736181:date=Nov 4 2009, 02:08 PM:name=Leon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leon @ Nov 4 2009, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What Ziggy said. If you don't like it, play somewhere else. We aren't going to be catering to baddies any time soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

  • Black opsBlack ops Join Date: 2009-11-03 Member: 69255Members
    edited November 2009
    Meh.. maybe you are angry but you are just ignoring everything I just said and implying that I'm a bad player. Well, thats up for you to decide.. after I skulk kill you while you got your jp and hmg.
  • KilalotKilalot Join Date: 2004-01-15 Member: 25355Awaiting Authorization, Constellation
    edited November 2009
    You should post about it in evolvens.com then. I'm sure we'll like your ideas!
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    people who are naughty on evolve get banned

    if you want to improve ask questions.

    Most of the marines who get ridiculous k:d could just as well go fade on aliens...
  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?&#33; Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    We're not implying you're a bad player. We're stating it explicitly. There's nothing wrong with being bad in of itself, but when you start hurling accusations at better players (Anybody better than me must be a NERD!) and insist that they play to accommodate you, people start getting a little annoyed.
    Most of those players you're complaining about on Marines would probably have the same effect on the games if they went Aliens. It seems rather hypocritical to me to rag on people for playing Marines when you profess a preference for Aliens yourself.
  • KilalotKilalot Join Date: 2004-01-15 Member: 25355Awaiting Authorization, Constellation
    Gotta love stacking, especially when we have an auto join pluggin.
  • Apollonius999Apollonius999 Join Date: 2009-09-09 Member: 68725Members
    Black ops you simply set yourself up for this. As for skill stacking, the game is based of team reliance, there are many games where they look quite skill stacked but get dominated because of people who rambo or go off on tangents and simply get destroyed. I'm a terrible played yet on aliens i will always be on the top simply because i play my role in the game. Can't say much for rines other than mediocre aim and a random ninja / rush cap. Also on another note because people notice the names on certain teams and know players who are good some of the games are over before they start simply because of people raging over the teams being stacked before they actually try and win or play semi-competently.

    I'm sure you like all the other players out there have read nsdojo and other nslearn topics. Also you know about rates and what you should be doing.

    Otherwise there is no need to complain but try and get better or try to make those around you better by helping / hinting them in game. I hate to say it but even some of the mic spammers who scream off and on in game are really annoying, but you would get annoyed too if downies are roaming around like hellen keller and doing nothing.

    Even at evolve there are numerous people who actually put forth an effort and will answer questions if you simply don't know why your doing so poorly(Don't be surprised if some people grief but others will give you tips). There is even a group now that train's during some days of the week on drills from the guys you previously insinuated to be cheating. 2 skulks with 1 pistol? how about 3 + with 1 lmg clip. It only takes 10 shots to kill a skulk right?
  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members
    There are indeed people out there that are really that good. I've seen it before and they are really awe inspiring. But then again, there are cheaters. So going with the assumption that they are cheaters, then I would suggest, as others have suggested, getting a demo and sending it to the admins. If you do not want to be proactive, then there is nothing I can do for you since it is not my responsibility to catch cheaters who don't play on my servers.

    Let's say that the servers you play on actually tolerate cheaters(an appalling situation). Then, you have to accept that life isn't always fair and switch servers. Yes, I also think that servers that allow cheaters suck but unless you own the server, there is nothing you can do.

    Finally, as to your gripe to people always playing one team. I would have to say that you may not like it, but you have to respect the choices of other players. Forcing players to play on random teams when they do not want to is not fun at all. If the mechanics of the game allow for player freedom, they should have it. If you think they are staying on one side because of cheating, then this goes back to my first point.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    edited November 2009
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1736364:date=Nov 5 2009, 05:42 PM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Nov 5 2009, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736364"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are indeed people out there that are really that good. I've seen it before...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Like Toothy? I swear if Toothy never had games he'd only have half a life; the guy's <i>too</i> good. You get what you put in!
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    wow toothy? seriously? lol
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
    to be honest man, your problem is that your comparing your experience in Guns to good players like the ones that play in EvolveNS. Guns is notorious for banning good players on suspicion. I myself was banned on the premise of 'ban evasion', having never been banned in the first place. When I posted in their forums about it, they referenced me to the banning of a person (who regularly played, and who lived 500 miles away from) that I played network games with 2 years prior (which consisted of a weekends worth of shared IP logins). This just happened to occur after the third time I went 20:2 in the server. It's a server that caters to moderate to bad, or new, players. They will find any reason to get rid of players that own them and 'oppress' their delicate newb player community.

    Most the people who play in EvolveNS are league players (some are CAL NS players, back when CAL NS existed), which means they play competitively, and have been for years. It's apple and oranges. Stick to the skill censored servers, don't ###### in NS forums about players I play against ever week, perhaps even daily.

    btw.. as far as established pub servers go, BAD has far better players than g4b2s. Thats because BAD clan members are competitive enough to handle challenging players.
  • digzdigz be still, maggot Join Date: 2002-05-07 Member: 588Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    WOW, this crap stops now. This doesn't belong here, how a community decides to run it's server is its own business... and shame on the rest of you for taking the bait. Ugh. This is eating away at my MWR time people.
This discussion has been closed.