Spheres 2 and 3 will take up the same amount of space (number of pixels) on the screen, but only sphere 1 and 2 have the same properties, bar world position of course. What you are suggesting is that spheres 2 and 3 are the same, which is insane.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for people with smaller monitors I tried to scale image (forgive the skewed image, rescaling is hard-4-me) <img src="http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8805/point2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I agree skulks look too big. As a competitive player I prefer game that is challenging, rewarding and very many-sided. I fear the gameplay changes for worse, but we shall see what happens. Game seems to have taken direction to public / casual players liking, I hate it but maybe its necessery to increase competitiveness. Making a mod out of NS2 is a choice and theres few already interested in it, but I hope it doesnt come to that.
As for NS2 being completed different game, I have to say that people who bought the game sure didnt buy it because of the title "NS2" , but because they want to see NS1's good aspects in a new refreshing way.
<!--quoteo(post=1735987:date=Nov 4 2009, 01:12 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Nov 4 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree skulks look too big. As a competitive player I prefer game that is challenging, rewarding and very many-sided. I fear the gameplay changes for worse, but we shall see what happens. Game seems to have taken direction to public / casual players liking, I hate it but maybe its necessery to increase competitiveness. Making a mod out of NS2 is a choice and theres few already interested in it, but I hope it doesnt come to that.
As for NS2 being completed different game, I have to say that people who bought the game sure didnt buy it because of the title "NS2" , but because they want to see NS1's good aspects in a new refreshing way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't more challenging for the Skulk though, dodging all that marine fire? I'd have to say one of those new refreshing ways would be a larger, beefier Skulk encouraged to use vents and ambush tactics. As a marine I doubt a bigger target makes it easier too, with the increased health the Skulk may have too much of an advantage if it sneaks up on you which is (Hopefully) the idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1736000:date=Nov 3 2009, 07:18 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Nov 3 2009, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE could always implement locational damage if they wanted to keep the larger skulk size without making them too easy to kill<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would at least be interesting to see skulks bdropping marines ass-first.
A model is a collection of connected dots, the information you get in the model is the relative positions of all the dots and the connection information.
However if you import the same model into two different games you get two different results, for example if I import a 74 unit tall model into HL2 it's about the height of a person, if I import the same model into the neoaxis engine it is 74 metres tall and upside down.
How the game interprets a model's size is entirely changeable, and many games will have a fairly simple command to change the ingame scale of a model, HL2 has a command which lets you change the scale of a model during the compile phase after you export it from the modelling package but before you put it into game, and many games have scaled enemies, a fundamental part of most RPGs is a scaled up model, and many other game support on the fly scaling of characters due to enlarge/reduce size magic spells or science fiction gizmos.
I suppose if you got the scale tool in max and tried to shrink down a rigged character in max it would mess up the weighting on the model because the envelopes might stay the same size, I haven't ever tried it so I don't know, but that information is a max thing, the visual size on screen in the game is entirely down to the game, the game makes it bigger or smaller based on the number representing it's distance from the camera, so it can make it bigger or smaller to begin with using another number and some code.
Size is fixed in reality but in a game the laws of physics are defined by the engine, and whoever writes the engine can redefine them as they please.
<!--quoteo(post=1735920:date=Nov 3 2009, 02:00 PM:name=blackpiranha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackpiranha @ Nov 3 2009, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Devs will resize the models so why discussing it any further?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT
The devs are going to make sure everything is sized and balanced, like they are doing with the marine gun we have seen in screen shots. The marine gun takes up a huge chunk of the screen, and they realize this and have stated that it will not be the final size of the weapon.
<!--quoteo(post=1735968:date=Nov 4 2009, 01:19 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Nov 4 2009, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look, another image:
<a href="http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9286/pointj.jpg" target="_blank">http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9286/pointj.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right back at you. Go back just one page and you'll find that I'm arguing FOR scaling being easy. This junk with Nur equating scaling and perspective is unrelated.
<!--quoteo(post=1735993:date=Nov 4 2009, 06:13 AM:name=Fortune)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 4 2009, 06:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't more challenging for the Skulk though, dodging all that marine fire? I'd have to say one of those new refreshing ways would be a larger, beefier Skulk encouraged to use vents and ambush tactics. As a marine I doubt a bigger target makes it easier too, with the increased health the Skulk may have too much of an advantage if it sneaks up on you which is (Hopefully) the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gameplay is going to change with a model that big, its already changed due the small length leap, meaning bunnyhop loses its meaning not even first-time gamer misses skulk that big in a small corridor like that. The corridors may be bigger but that wouldnt really make the difference. That would kill the possiblity of rational player attacking there making the vents too obvious ambush places thus s-h-i-t. Another reason why skulk should be smaller is the variety of the aliens. Hoping and assuming fade is going to be included in this version it would be retarted to add fade with blinkmove as it would be a skulk with more hp?! no point. Every lifeform should have its job and it should be designed to do it.
And btw if you are the fortune I know (lump) I would gladly move you to the deepest part of hell for thinking this since you are a clanner after all. I hate pubbers and casual players so I would love start flaming war but lets ignore this fact for now.
<!--quoteo(post=1735388:date=Nov 1 2009, 10:50 PM:name=Syriquez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syriquez @ Nov 1 2009, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Judging by the size increase, the game is moving away from the massive schism that player ability creates in NS1, that is, playing makes you less of cannon fodder if you don't know what you're doing, ultimately resulting in a game friendlier to beginners, which is better for both sides. Basic rule of game design is to not build for the fringe players, so I'm rather pleased to see it being embraced.
That said, I wouldn't put it past the team to have plans in mind for a miniaturization "upgrade" or a new, small replacement for the old skulk some time in the future when getting the game out is a little less pertinent.
Besides, if you can't figure out how to stomp newbs in NS2 without it being identical to NS1, you're not trying hard enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have to disagree, on the whole not building for fringe players thing. i mean, look at the player base and community. ns1 is pretty darn hardcore, and so are its fans. that means its still played after SEVEN YEARS. thats a loooong time! hardcore fans are just that! theyre dedicated and passionate. if they made this like tf2...well, it was fun at first, then quickly became less fun as there was less reward for becoming more skilled at it. ****i want it to become more fun the more i play it!**** not the other way around! i would much rather see the promise in a game, and work hard to become good enough to enjoy it for SEVEN YEARS, than to just be able to pick it up and be on equal footing with everyone. and it should be made clear that grinding/number of hours dedicated should not automtically translate into being "better" like tf2 tried to do with unlockable weapons. it should not be like every gear dependent mmo where "working hard" to become skilled translates to wasting your life to get an automatic unfair advantage that overpowers individual player skill.
so in conclusion, sure, make it more newbie friendly, as we will all be nubs in the beginning, but make it so that an understanding of the game and *FPS skill* will be the greatest determinant in how effective you are. no easy mode tf2 where its AWESOME at first but quickly loses appeal!!
NS2 is a different game. You're comparing the skulk's size in NS2 to that of NS1 yet ignoring the fact that skulks in NS2 have leap from the start.
This is an incredible change and if the skulks were as small as everyone wants it would most likely overpower the most basic and abundant unit the Kahraa has.
<!--quoteo(post=1736272:date=Nov 4 2009, 10:16 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Nov 4 2009, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm still amazed this is being discussed.
NS2 is a different game. You're comparing the skulk's size in NS2 to that of NS1 yet ignoring the fact that skulks in NS2 have leap from the start.
This is an incredible change and if the skulks were as small as everyone wants it would most likely overpower the most basic and abundant unit the Kahraa has.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but everything about the skulk is also slower. Slower + bigger = a far easier target to kill. But what I find possibly more worrisome than that is just how much room everything appears to occupy in this game (both players and structures). Rooms look like they will be able to become cramped very fast.
Here's why people are so upset about Skulk size; even if you balance it out with extra health so that the average player takes the same number of bullets to kill a Skulk, that doesn't scale well with skill. I'll use two extreme examples to make my point clear.
Suppose the game was balanced so that the "average" player needed 25 bullets to kill a Skulk.
One version of the Skulk is so big and slow that players will <i>never</i> miss (it's just an example, bear with me). To stay within design parameters, this Skulk needs to be hit with 25 bullets to be killed.
Another version of the Skulk is so fast and small that players will barely be able to hit it. The "average" player will land 1/25 shots, so this Skulk only takes one bullet to kill.
For the "average" player, these Skulks are basically the same, and they can expect to kill two before reloading. However, when we start considering players who are better or worse than average, we can see how this doesn't scale at all. With a Skulk that gets hit by every bullet, it doesn't matter how good the person shooting it is; even a rookie will be just as effective as an aimbot. Conversely, when the Skulk takes one bullet to kill, the someone who never misses will be able to kill 50 without reloading, while someone with terrible aim might not manage to kill any.
Obviously good design comes somewhere between these two extremes, but the general concern here is that Skulks that are easier to hit but take more bullets to kill will devalue good aim, and games that don't reward skilled play tend to become shallow and uninteresting for good players.
<!--quoteo(post=1736196:date=Nov 4 2009, 03:46 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Nov 4 2009, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736196"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys are funny.
I'll wait till I actually play the game before making comments about the size of the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What's the point of posting in every topic if you are just going to say you have no opinion.
Back of topic however the skulks might not be much bigger than the skulk hitboxes pre-3.0, atleast in terms of height.
I definitely don't want big slow animals assaulting the marines constantly as opposed to the agile, hard to hit and control skulks we've all come to know and love, but honestly I think it looks fine. I still think the angle of the the skulks is misleading, because their front looks rather large, but their bodies seem pretty short and really tiny on the backend, so they don't look much longer to me, at least not in any un-acceptable manner, but I guess thats just personal.
<!--quoteo(post=1736294:date=Nov 5 2009, 03:12 AM:name=Frogg2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frogg2 @ Nov 5 2009, 03:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's the point of posting in every topic if you are just going to say you have no opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never stated I don't have an opinion, rather that I would reserve final judgement about it after I actually tried it in the game. I felt reducing the grenades from the grenade launcher to 4 in NS was a bad idea during play testing, but chose to wait until I tried it before I said it was stupid. It was a great decision.
My opinion is that you should actually play the game before you say that something is not going to work. You have no idea at all how the Skulk, or anything else for that matter, plays in NS2. People are quick to jump off the handle about anything, the auto bite being a perfect example. I think it'd do everyone a lot better if we were cautiously optimistic about trying <b>NEW</b> features to NS2, rather than flying off the handle saying it <u>wont work</u> without even having the ability to test the friggin thing.
Was just a way of restating that opinion, I suppose.
I remember when Valve announced it was removing grenades from TF2. I loved grenades in QWTF and was quite shocked. However I chose to try the change and formulate an opinion after I had a chance to see how it affected game play, rather than fly off the handle and rant about how much Valve doesn't understand TF anymore. Turns out, it was the right move for the game and it's better 100x over for them <b>not</b> being in it.
Regardless, I find the lack of faith that they would see a massive balance issue with their game, if it turns out to play poorly, and assume they will <b>not</b> change it ... baffling.
<!--quoteo(post=1736301:date=Nov 5 2009, 02:22 AM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Nov 5 2009, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never stated I don't have an opinion, rather that I would reserve final judgement about it after I actually tried it in the game. I felt reducing the grenades from the grenade launcher to 4 in NS was a bad idea during play testing, but chose to wait until I tried it before I said it was stupid. It was a great decision.
My opinion is that you should actually play the game before you say that something is not going to work. You have no idea at all how the Skulk, or anything else for that matter, plays in NS2. People are quick to jump off the handle about anything, the auto bite being a perfect example. I think it'd do everyone a lot better if we were cautiously optimistic about trying <b>NEW</b> features to NS2, rather than flying off the handle saying it <u>wont work</u> without even having the ability to test the friggin thing.
Was just a way of restating that opinion, I suppose.
I remember when Valve announced it was removing grenades from TF2. I loved grenades in QWTF and was quite shocked. However I chose to try the change and formulate an opinion after I had a chance to see how it affected game play, rather than fly off the handle and rant about how much Valve doesn't understand TF anymore. Turns out, it was the right move for the game and it's better 100x over for them <b>not</b> being in it.
Regardless, I find the lack of faith that they would see a massive balance issue with their game, if it turns out to play poorly, and assume they will <b>not</b> change it ... baffling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So every time something is announced we should just pat the dev team on the back and say good job can't wait to play? No. You need not have played the game to know that in a lot of the cases people are complaining about them marginalizing skill. Removing bunny hop, larger slower skulks, automatic bite. All cases where the game is being dumbed down. I understand they want to make it more accessible. However starcraft and counter-strike are still going strong at 11 and 10 years. They are being held up by the hardcore player.
<!--quoteo(post=1736301:date=Nov 5 2009, 08:22 AM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Nov 5 2009, 08:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never stated I don't have an opinion, rather that I would reserve final judgement about it after I actually tried it in the game. I felt reducing the grenades from the grenade launcher to 4 in NS was a bad idea during play testing, but chose to wait until I tried it before I said it was stupid. It was a great decision.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say skulk size is very much different from anything like GL mag size. GL mag size reduction affects one specialized weapon in the game and makes it less spammable. In addition, the change directs GL into it's intentented role.
Then again massive skulks, more hp and less speed are in my opinion pretty clear indications of new skulk gameplay direction, which affects widely the whole alien and marine play style. It's not necessary a failed change in terms of functional gameplay, but it's going to change some of the nature of the game.
Telling people that it's NS2 and everyone is supposed to live with the changes isn't completely valid either. It's very much worth discussing which elements should be preserved and which changed. Change for the sake of change isn't worth it, there has to be improvement.
I'm tired of seeing the "Everything is going to be alright" without any real points. Discussion is the main focus of these forums and shutting it down in any part isn't going to serve the purpose. Even if some people overreact, make heavy assumptions or unrealistic demands, it feeds the discussion far better than just the "Wait till the game is out".
<!--quoteo(post=1736269:date=Nov 5 2009, 03:09 AM:name=Grave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grave @ Nov 5 2009, 03:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have to disagree, on the whole not building for fringe players thing. i mean, look at the player base and community. ns1 is pretty darn hardcore, and so are its fans. that means its still played after SEVEN YEARS. thats a loooong time! hardcore fans are just that! theyre dedicated and passionate. if they made this like tf2...well, it was fun at first, then quickly became less fun as there was less reward for becoming more skilled at it. ****i want it to become more fun the more i play it!**** not the other way around! i would much rather see the promise in a game, and work hard to become good enough to enjoy it for SEVEN YEARS, than to just be able to pick it up and be on equal footing with everyone. and it should be made clear that grinding/number of hours dedicated should not automtically translate into being "better" like tf2 tried to do with unlockable weapons. it should not be like every gear dependent mmo where "working hard" to become skilled translates to wasting your life to get an automatic unfair advantage that overpowers individual player skill.
so in conclusion, sure, make it more newbie friendly, as we will all be nubs in the beginning, but make it so that an understanding of the game and *FPS skill* will be the greatest determinant in how effective you are. no easy mode tf2 where its AWESOME at first but quickly loses appeal!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having some people playing a game for seven years is not a good thing either commerically or in terms of general success as almost any game will end up with people still playing it years down the line especially if they don't have to pay for it, having lots of people play it at any given time is a good indicator of commerical and general success. Games are a business, if your game doesn't make money you're out on the street.
Few players = bad, many players = good.
Also I don't see your distinction between gear and skill, skill is something you acquire through repetition, playing the game a lot will make you good at it, just as playing a game with loot for long enough will give you better stuff. Skill is grinding for better stuff, it's just that the stuff is stored in your head rather than on the server, but it's still encouraging grinding and still gives some players a huge advantage over others, just because it's 'skill' doesn't mean its results are any different or that it's any better of a mechanic. Once you have a skill you don't have to work to use it, it becomes natural, in fact that's more or less what skill is, the ability to perform complex actions without putting as much conscious effort in because you do it automatically, it is entirely analogous to having a weapon which does more damage without you having to think about it. The only difference is that some games don't require skill and simply rely on you playing it lots to gradually gain power through numbers in the game, while other games require you to play them a lot to gain power through electrochemical connections in your brain.
I honestly don't see the difference, they're two methods to the exact same end, players who play more will be at an advantage over players who play less, and I don't agree with either method being taken to an extreme. Some players will prefer skill grinding because they don't see the attraction in simply acquiring better stuff, while other players will see acquiring better stuff as being preferable because they have difficulty developing some skills and also because stuff can often be acquired faster than skills which means the game can ensure you are plied with a constant stream of more stuff to play with, whereas skill development can easily feel like you've hit a wall. They appeal to different players but they do the same thing in the end, they give you something to aim at and incite you to play the game until you fulfil that goal.
<!--quoteo(post=1736269:date=Nov 5 2009, 03:09 AM:name=Grave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grave @ Nov 5 2009, 03:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have to disagree, on the whole not building for fringe players thing. i mean, look at the player base and community. ns1 is pretty darn hardcore, and so are its fans. that means its still played after SEVEN YEARS. thats a loooong time! hardcore fans are just that! theyre dedicated and passionate. if they made this like tf2...well, it was fun at first, then quickly became less fun as there was less reward for becoming more skilled at it. ****i want it to become more fun the more i play it!**** not the other way around! i would much rather see the promise in a game, and work hard to become good enough to enjoy it for SEVEN YEARS, than to just be able to pick it up and be on equal footing with everyone. and it should be made clear that grinding/number of hours dedicated should not automtically translate into being "better" like tf2 tried to do with unlockable weapons. it should not be like every gear dependent mmo where "working hard" to become skilled translates to wasting your life to get an automatic unfair advantage that overpowers individual player skill.
so in conclusion, sure, make it more newbie friendly, as we will all be nubs in the beginning, but make it so that an understanding of the game and *FPS skill* will be the greatest determinant in how effective you are. no easy mode tf2 where its AWESOME at first but quickly loses appeal!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The words of Yahtzee echo through my ears.
"Fans are whining, complaining dip######s who will never be happy with anything you do."
Or something. NS was a fairly popular mod. The only reason it's 'fringe' is because... it's 7 years old - only the most hardcore nerds still care about it. A lot of people played it and left over the years. And, I would add, I think the MINORITY of players actually give a ###### about 'TEH SK1LLZ' to the level you do or the 'fringe NS players' do. I loved NS to death, but I never played it so I could satisfy some primal nerd being inside me that demanded I show everyone how much better I am than them. I never played it <i>because</i> of the 'skill level' in it. I played it for fun, nothing more.
And in m opinion, a lot of NS's problems stemmed indirectly from the reliance on 'TEH SK1LLZ'. All the competitive players regarded themselves as superior beings to anyone who wasn't wearing a clan tag, the attitude in general was hostile to new players, and the Veteran program itself was a great ideal until you realized competitive players don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and it collapsed up its own ass after ruining the game and filling the forums with elitists.
"hmm... I wonder why the skulk is so big now... I'm concerned. Let's wait for alpha" doesn't need a +7 page thread. End this pls. It should have ended at the first person that said let wait for the alpha. Reading a bit too much into it.
Plus the sub-topic about the corridor being too... wtf? ridiculous amounts of extrapolation going on there.
<!--quoteo(post=1736359:date=Nov 5 2009, 05:30 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 5 2009, 05:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The words of Yahtzee echo through my ears.
"Fans are whining, complaining dip######s who will never be happy with anything you do."
Or something. NS was a fairly popular mod. The only reason it's 'fringe' is because... it's 7 years old - only the most hardcore nerds still care about it. A lot of people played it and left over the years. And, I would add, I think the MINORITY of players actually give a ###### about 'TEH SK1LLZ' to the level you do or the 'fringe NS players' do. I loved NS to death, but I never played it so I could satisfy some primal nerd being inside me that demanded I show everyone how much better I am than them. I never played it <i>because</i> of the 'skill level' in it. I played it for fun, nothing more.
And in m opinion, a lot of NS's problems stemmed indirectly from the reliance on 'TEH SK1LLZ'. All the competitive players regarded themselves as superior beings to anyone who wasn't wearing a clan tag, the attitude in general was hostile to new players, and the Veteran program itself was a great ideal until you realized competitive players don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and it collapsed up its own ass after ruining the game and filling the forums with elitists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Spheres 2 and 3 will take up the same amount of space (number of pixels) on the screen, but only sphere 1 and 2 have the same properties, bar world position of course.
What you are suggesting is that spheres 2 and 3 are the same, which is insane.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, another image:
<img src="http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9286/pointj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->EDIT:<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
for people with smaller monitors I tried to scale image (forgive the skewed image, rescaling is hard-4-me)
<img src="http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8805/point2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Making a mod out of NS2 is a choice and theres few already interested in it, but I hope it doesnt come to that.
As for NS2 being completed different game, I have to say that people who bought the game sure didnt buy it because of the title "NS2" , but because they want to see NS1's good aspects in a new refreshing way.
Making a mod out of NS2 is a choice and theres few already interested in it, but I hope it doesnt come to that.
As for NS2 being completed different game, I have to say that people who bought the game sure didnt buy it because of the title "NS2" , but because they want to see NS1's good aspects in a new refreshing way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't more challenging for the Skulk though, dodging all that marine fire? I'd have to say one of those new refreshing ways would be a larger, beefier Skulk encouraged to use vents and ambush tactics. As a marine I doubt a bigger target makes it easier too, with the increased health the Skulk may have too much of an advantage if it sneaks up on you which is (Hopefully) the idea.
Would at least be interesting to see skulks bdropping marines ass-first.
However if you import the same model into two different games you get two different results, for example if I import a 74 unit tall model into HL2 it's about the height of a person, if I import the same model into the neoaxis engine it is 74 metres tall and upside down.
How the game interprets a model's size is entirely changeable, and many games will have a fairly simple command to change the ingame scale of a model, HL2 has a command which lets you change the scale of a model during the compile phase after you export it from the modelling package but before you put it into game, and many games have scaled enemies, a fundamental part of most RPGs is a scaled up model, and many other game support on the fly scaling of characters due to enlarge/reduce size magic spells or science fiction gizmos.
I suppose if you got the scale tool in max and tried to shrink down a rigged character in max it would mess up the weighting on the model because the envelopes might stay the same size, I haven't ever tried it so I don't know, but that information is a max thing, the visual size on screen in the game is entirely down to the game, the game makes it bigger or smaller based on the number representing it's distance from the camera, so it can make it bigger or smaller to begin with using another number and some code.
Size is fixed in reality but in a game the laws of physics are defined by the engine, and whoever writes the engine can redefine them as they please.
QFT
The devs are going to make sure everything is sized and balanced, like they are doing with the marine gun we have seen in screen shots. The marine gun takes up a huge chunk of the screen, and they realize this and have stated that it will not be the final size of the weapon.
I'll wait till I actually play the game before making comments about the size of the aliens.
<a href="http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9286/pointj.jpg" target="_blank">http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9286/pointj.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right back at you. Go back just one page and you'll find that I'm arguing FOR scaling being easy.
This junk with Nur equating scaling and perspective is unrelated.
Magic.
I'll wait till I actually play the game before making comments about the size of the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, QFT.
The skulks look great, but I wouldn't know because I haven't played.
Stop ordering the devs to make them smaller, we don't even have gameplay footage yet.
Wait for the game, and then start whining.
Gameplay is going to change with a model that big, its already changed due the small length leap, meaning bunnyhop loses its meaning not even first-time gamer misses skulk that big in a small corridor like that. The corridors may be bigger but that wouldnt really make the difference. That would kill the possiblity of rational player attacking there making the vents too obvious ambush places thus s-h-i-t. Another reason why skulk should be smaller is the variety of the aliens. Hoping and assuming fade is going to be included in this version it would be retarted to add fade with blinkmove as it would be a skulk with more hp?! no point. Every lifeform should have its job and it should be designed to do it.
And btw if you are the fortune I know (lump) I would gladly move you to the deepest part of hell for thinking this since you are a clanner after all. I hate pubbers and casual players so I would love start flaming war but lets ignore this fact for now.
Basic rule of game design is to not build for the fringe players, so I'm rather pleased to see it being embraced.
That said, I wouldn't put it past the team to have plans in mind for a miniaturization "upgrade" or a new, small replacement for the old skulk some time in the future when getting the game out is a little less pertinent.
Besides, if you can't figure out how to stomp newbs in NS2 without it being identical to NS1, you're not trying hard enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have to disagree, on the whole not building for fringe players thing. i mean, look at the player base and community. ns1 is pretty darn hardcore, and so are its fans. that means its still played after SEVEN YEARS. thats a loooong time! hardcore fans are just that! theyre dedicated and passionate. if they made this like tf2...well, it was fun at first, then quickly became less fun as there was less reward for becoming more skilled at it.
****i want it to become more fun the more i play it!**** not the other way around! i would much rather see the promise in a game, and work hard to become good enough to enjoy it for SEVEN YEARS, than to just be able to pick it up and be on equal footing with everyone.
and it should be made clear that grinding/number of hours dedicated should not automtically translate into being "better" like tf2 tried to do with unlockable weapons. it should not be like every gear dependent mmo where "working hard" to become skilled translates to wasting your life to get an automatic unfair advantage that overpowers individual player skill.
so in conclusion, sure, make it more newbie friendly, as we will all be nubs in the beginning, but make it so that an understanding of the game and *FPS skill* will be the greatest determinant in how effective you are. no easy mode tf2 where its AWESOME at first but quickly loses appeal!!
NS2 is a different game. You're comparing the skulk's size in NS2 to that of NS1 yet ignoring the fact that skulks in NS2 have leap from the start.
This is an incredible change and if the skulks were as small as everyone wants it would most likely overpower the most basic and abundant unit the Kahraa has.
NS2 is a different game. You're comparing the skulk's size in NS2 to that of NS1 yet ignoring the fact that skulks in NS2 have leap from the start.
This is an incredible change and if the skulks were as small as everyone wants it would most likely overpower the most basic and abundant unit the Kahraa has.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but everything about the skulk is also slower. Slower + bigger = a far easier target to kill. But what I find possibly more worrisome than that is just how much room everything appears to occupy in this game (both players and structures). Rooms look like they will be able to become cramped very fast.
Suppose the game was balanced so that the "average" player needed 25 bullets to kill a Skulk.
One version of the Skulk is so big and slow that players will <i>never</i> miss (it's just an example, bear with me). To stay within design parameters, this Skulk needs to be hit with 25 bullets to be killed.
Another version of the Skulk is so fast and small that players will barely be able to hit it. The "average" player will land 1/25 shots, so this Skulk only takes one bullet to kill.
For the "average" player, these Skulks are basically the same, and they can expect to kill two before reloading. However, when we start considering players who are better or worse than average, we can see how this doesn't scale at all. With a Skulk that gets hit by every bullet, it doesn't matter how good the person shooting it is; even a rookie will be just as effective as an aimbot. Conversely, when the Skulk takes one bullet to kill, the someone who never misses will be able to kill 50 without reloading, while someone with terrible aim might not manage to kill any.
Obviously good design comes somewhere between these two extremes, but the general concern here is that Skulks that are easier to hit but take more bullets to kill will devalue good aim, and games that don't reward skilled play tend to become shallow and uninteresting for good players.
I'll wait till I actually play the game before making comments about the size of the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the point of posting in every topic if you are just going to say you have no opinion.
Back of topic however the skulks might not be much bigger than the skulk hitboxes pre-3.0, atleast in terms of height.
I never stated I don't have an opinion, rather that I would reserve final judgement about it after I actually tried it in the game. I felt reducing the grenades from the grenade launcher to 4 in NS was a bad idea during play testing, but chose to wait until I tried it before I said it was stupid. It was a great decision.
My opinion is that you should actually play the game before you say that something is not going to work. You have no idea at all how the Skulk, or anything else for that matter, plays in NS2. People are quick to jump off the handle about anything, the auto bite being a perfect example. I think it'd do everyone a lot better if we were cautiously optimistic about trying <b>NEW</b> features to NS2, rather than flying off the handle saying it <u>wont work</u> without even having the ability to test the friggin thing.
Was just a way of restating that opinion, I suppose.
I remember when Valve announced it was removing grenades from TF2. I loved grenades in QWTF and was quite shocked. However I chose to try the change and formulate an opinion after I had a chance to see how it affected game play, rather than fly off the handle and rant about how much Valve doesn't understand TF anymore. Turns out, it was the right move for the game and it's better 100x over for them <b>not</b> being in it.
Regardless, I find the lack of faith that they would see a massive balance issue with their game, if it turns out to play poorly, and assume they will <b>not</b> change it ... baffling.
My opinion is that you should actually play the game before you say that something is not going to work. You have no idea at all how the Skulk, or anything else for that matter, plays in NS2. People are quick to jump off the handle about anything, the auto bite being a perfect example. I think it'd do everyone a lot better if we were cautiously optimistic about trying <b>NEW</b> features to NS2, rather than flying off the handle saying it <u>wont work</u> without even having the ability to test the friggin thing.
Was just a way of restating that opinion, I suppose.
I remember when Valve announced it was removing grenades from TF2. I loved grenades in QWTF and was quite shocked. However I chose to try the change and formulate an opinion after I had a chance to see how it affected game play, rather than fly off the handle and rant about how much Valve doesn't understand TF anymore. Turns out, it was the right move for the game and it's better 100x over for them <b>not</b> being in it.
Regardless, I find the lack of faith that they would see a massive balance issue with their game, if it turns out to play poorly, and assume they will <b>not</b> change it ... baffling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So every time something is announced we should just pat the dev team on the back and say good job can't wait to play? No. You need not have played the game to know that in a lot of the cases people are complaining about them marginalizing skill. Removing bunny hop, larger slower skulks, automatic bite. All cases where the game is being dumbed down. I understand they want to make it more accessible. However starcraft and counter-strike are still going strong at 11 and 10 years. They are being held up by the hardcore player.
I'd say skulk size is very much different from anything like GL mag size. GL mag size reduction affects one specialized weapon in the game and makes it less spammable. In addition, the change directs GL into it's intentented role.
Then again massive skulks, more hp and less speed are in my opinion pretty clear indications of new skulk gameplay direction, which affects widely the whole alien and marine play style. It's not necessary a failed change in terms of functional gameplay, but it's going to change some of the nature of the game.
Telling people that it's NS2 and everyone is supposed to live with the changes isn't completely valid either. It's very much worth discussing which elements should be preserved and which changed. Change for the sake of change isn't worth it, there has to be improvement.
I'm tired of seeing the "Everything is going to be alright" without any real points. Discussion is the main focus of these forums and shutting it down in any part isn't going to serve the purpose. Even if some people overreact, make heavy assumptions or unrealistic demands, it feeds the discussion far better than just the "Wait till the game is out".
****i want it to become more fun the more i play it!**** not the other way around! i would much rather see the promise in a game, and work hard to become good enough to enjoy it for SEVEN YEARS, than to just be able to pick it up and be on equal footing with everyone.
and it should be made clear that grinding/number of hours dedicated should not automtically translate into being "better" like tf2 tried to do with unlockable weapons. it should not be like every gear dependent mmo where "working hard" to become skilled translates to wasting your life to get an automatic unfair advantage that overpowers individual player skill.
so in conclusion, sure, make it more newbie friendly, as we will all be nubs in the beginning, but make it so that an understanding of the game and *FPS skill* will be the greatest determinant in how effective you are. no easy mode tf2 where its AWESOME at first but quickly loses appeal!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having some people playing a game for seven years is not a good thing either commerically or in terms of general success as almost any game will end up with people still playing it years down the line especially if they don't have to pay for it, having lots of people play it at any given time is a good indicator of commerical and general success. Games are a business, if your game doesn't make money you're out on the street.
Few players = bad, many players = good.
Also I don't see your distinction between gear and skill, skill is something you acquire through repetition, playing the game a lot will make you good at it, just as playing a game with loot for long enough will give you better stuff. Skill is grinding for better stuff, it's just that the stuff is stored in your head rather than on the server, but it's still encouraging grinding and still gives some players a huge advantage over others, just because it's 'skill' doesn't mean its results are any different or that it's any better of a mechanic. Once you have a skill you don't have to work to use it, it becomes natural, in fact that's more or less what skill is, the ability to perform complex actions without putting as much conscious effort in because you do it automatically, it is entirely analogous to having a weapon which does more damage without you having to think about it. The only difference is that some games don't require skill and simply rely on you playing it lots to gradually gain power through numbers in the game, while other games require you to play them a lot to gain power through electrochemical connections in your brain.
I honestly don't see the difference, they're two methods to the exact same end, players who play more will be at an advantage over players who play less, and I don't agree with either method being taken to an extreme. Some players will prefer skill grinding because they don't see the attraction in simply acquiring better stuff, while other players will see acquiring better stuff as being preferable because they have difficulty developing some skills and also because stuff can often be acquired faster than skills which means the game can ensure you are plied with a constant stream of more stuff to play with, whereas skill development can easily feel like you've hit a wall. They appeal to different players but they do the same thing in the end, they give you something to aim at and incite you to play the game until you fulfil that goal.
****i want it to become more fun the more i play it!**** not the other way around! i would much rather see the promise in a game, and work hard to become good enough to enjoy it for SEVEN YEARS, than to just be able to pick it up and be on equal footing with everyone.
and it should be made clear that grinding/number of hours dedicated should not automtically translate into being "better" like tf2 tried to do with unlockable weapons. it should not be like every gear dependent mmo where "working hard" to become skilled translates to wasting your life to get an automatic unfair advantage that overpowers individual player skill.
so in conclusion, sure, make it more newbie friendly, as we will all be nubs in the beginning, but make it so that an understanding of the game and *FPS skill* will be the greatest determinant in how effective you are. no easy mode tf2 where its AWESOME at first but quickly loses appeal!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The words of Yahtzee echo through my ears.
"Fans are whining, complaining dip######s who will never be happy with anything you do."
Or something. NS was a fairly popular mod. The only reason it's 'fringe' is because... it's 7 years old - only the most hardcore nerds still care about it. A lot of people played it and left over the years. And, I would add, I think the MINORITY of players actually give a ###### about 'TEH SK1LLZ' to the level you do or the 'fringe NS players' do. I loved NS to death, but I never played it so I could satisfy some primal nerd being inside me that demanded I show everyone how much better I am than them. I never played it <i>because</i> of the 'skill level' in it. I played it for fun, nothing more.
And in m opinion, a lot of NS's problems stemmed indirectly from the reliance on 'TEH SK1LLZ'. All the competitive players regarded themselves as superior beings to anyone who wasn't wearing a clan tag, the attitude in general was hostile to new players, and the Veteran program itself was a great ideal until you realized competitive players don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and it collapsed up its own ass after ruining the game and filling the forums with elitists.
"hmm... I wonder why the skulk is so big now... I'm concerned. Let's wait for alpha" doesn't need a +7 page thread. End this pls. It should have ended at the first person that said let wait for the alpha. Reading a bit too much into it.
Plus the sub-topic about the corridor being too... wtf? ridiculous amounts of extrapolation going on there.
"Fans are whining, complaining dip######s who will never be happy with anything you do."
Or something. NS was a fairly popular mod. The only reason it's 'fringe' is because... it's 7 years old - only the most hardcore nerds still care about it. A lot of people played it and left over the years. And, I would add, I think the MINORITY of players actually give a ###### about 'TEH SK1LLZ' to the level you do or the 'fringe NS players' do. I loved NS to death, but I never played it so I could satisfy some primal nerd being inside me that demanded I show everyone how much better I am than them. I never played it <i>because</i> of the 'skill level' in it. I played it for fun, nothing more.
And in m opinion, a lot of NS's problems stemmed indirectly from the reliance on 'TEH SK1LLZ'. All the competitive players regarded themselves as superior beings to anyone who wasn't wearing a clan tag, the attitude in general was hostile to new players, and the Veteran program itself was a great ideal until you realized competitive players don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and it collapsed up its own ass after ruining the game and filling the forums with elitists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Veteran program?