<!--quoteo(post=1735392:date=Nov 1 2009, 05:26 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Nov 1 2009, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am indeed surprised to see that the alien classes are the same. I had hoped/expected different alien classes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've got: Small scout - Skulk Flying support - Lerk Hit and run fast mover - Fade Builder - Gorge Heavy attack - Onos
Depending on upgrades in NS1 each of these 5 classes could be an ambusher, fast mover or heavy hitter in various combinations which gives the feel of additional classes without having to create each variation. ie a leaping focused skulk would be a heavy hitter. Silence and cloaking for ambush for skulk. Some classes fit their upgrades better than others for sure, but that is how it goes. I always thought the Fade was a bit large for it's role but the game play worked out fine.
In between classes are usually not as effective as dedicated ones and I'm just not sure what is missing. What other classes would you suggest?
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited November 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1735518:date=Nov 2 2009, 09:00 AM:name=Rhodri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rhodri @ Nov 2 2009, 09:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735518"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tbh Temphage I've found the NS2 community to in general be one of the friendliest and most helpful groups towards new members, however I fail to see why we should make all the effort to try and convince you to purchase this game when you are so hostile and rude to people who don't agree with you. You've had lists of reasons the game is hugely different from NS1 from other members that you've completely ignored so I'm just going to assume you're arguing for the sake of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT.
There is a lot of material to go through with the past casts and blogs so I can see how it would be daunting. That alone should give you an indication that there are a decent amount of changes however. If you want a quick overview AusNS has <a href="http://www.ausns2.com/articles/ns2-what-we-know-mmmmegalist" target="_blank"> a megalist</a> with a lot of stuff(it hasn't really been updated since the fan video, but it's good for older news).
<!--quoteo(post=1735531:date=Nov 2 2009, 03:33 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Nov 2 2009, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In between classes are usually not as effective as dedicated ones and I'm just not sure what is missing. What other classes would you suggest?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A 10 res push breaker alien. Basically a stronger and slow skulk, capable of taking maybe two and a half SG blasts. It would give the aliens the ability to invest more into momentary pushes and defence, a little like marines can add shotguns.
<!--quoteo(post=1735518:date=Nov 2 2009, 01:00 PM:name=Rhodri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rhodri @ Nov 2 2009, 01:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735518"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tbh Temphage I've found the NS2 community to in general be one of the friendliest and most helpful groups towards new members, however I fail to see why we should make all the effort to try and convince you to purchase this game when you are so hostile and rude to people who don't agree with you. You've had lists of reasons the game is hugely different from NS1 from other members that you've completely ignored so I'm just going to assume you're arguing for the sake of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't ignored anything - only <b>two people</b> posted anything even remotely helpful, and that goes for your worthless post as well. Yes, the NS community is so friendly and helpful I was literally told I wasn't a big enough fan about NS2 that I shouldn't even bother buying the game. Did you miss that post, perchance?
And then it turns out the last page and a half of whining and ###### that I'm not a "real fan" could've been summed up with a single URL to AusNS. There's 33 posts in this thread right now, and only two of them actually helped.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not down to us to convince you to purchase the game. If you can't be bothered to look up what's new then you clearly weren't interested in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not ignorant about the NS community. Yes I remember the NS community being extremely helpful and nice, when admins were banning new players for being confused and not totally knowing what was happening, when the larger clans like #cri would try to crash servers they didn't like (I actually think NSLearn tried to do it once, and built a blacklist of servers the tutors didn't like and told all the new players to avoid them), or when these forums regularly degraded into a hellhole of people judging the quality of your post based on whether you had a vet icon or not (which meant you were a scrub and your posts could be ignored), and the only POSSIBLE reason anyone could NOT want bhop is because they were a noob and couldn't do it (and were told as such).
Please, don't kid yourself. I said from what I saw and knew NS2 didn't have that much stuff to differentiate it from NS1, and Bacillus proved me wrong. I accepted that, and thank him for it. Then the rest of the "community" flips the ###### out, and you're saying everyone is cuddly and nice.
You're lucky I knew better than to expect the NS community to do anything BUT, and I can troll with the best of them - because if this is how you guys behave towards the huge influx of new players NS2 is going to bring, your presence and attitude is going to do some serious ****ing damage.
I'm most concerned about aliens. They seem to be getting very little new stuff. It's understandable, because creating a whole new lifeform is a serious task. By contrast, humans are much more modular, you can enhance gameplay just adding a single weapon or piece of equipment.
Im just still angry at all the retards who made them go back to pistol and knife instead of the awesome NEW and DIFFRENT weapon they were gonna use..! >_>
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1735542:date=Nov 2 2009, 12:14 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2009, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, don't kid yourself. I said from what I saw and knew NS2 didn't have that much stuff to differentiate it from NS1, and Bacillus proved me wrong. I accepted that, and thank him for it. Then the rest of the "community" flips the ###### out, and you're saying everyone is cuddly and nice.
You're lucky I knew better than to expect the NS community to do anything BUT, and I can troll with the best of them - because if this is how you guys behave towards the huge influx of new players NS2 is going to bring, your presence and attitude is going to do some serious ****ing damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I just read this thread today, and I don't see it the way you're describing it.
If you just wanted more information about the game you could have said that instead of proposing that almost nothing has changed.
The comments made by other posters weren't nearly as inciting as yours. After getting some examples you immediately derailed your own topic into badmouthing old clans and the forum community.
<!--quoteo(post=1735558:date=Nov 2 2009, 08:41 AM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Nov 2 2009, 08:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm most concerned about aliens. They seem to be getting very little new stuff. It's understandable, because creating a whole new lifeform is a serious task. By contrast, humans are much more modular, you can enhance gameplay just adding a single weapon or piece of equipment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is as you describe, but one method for giving the aliens a bit of new jazz without creating a new alien lifeform would be to junction new abilities [mouse2] to the ones they've already created. Of course figuring out what to add is still a difficult task haha
<!--quoteo(post=1735559:date=Nov 2 2009, 08:41 AM:name=XeZo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XeZo @ Nov 2 2009, 08:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im just still angry at all the retards who made them go back to pistol and knife instead of the awesome NEW and DIFFRENT weapon they were gonna use..! >_><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok I'll admit my other post wasn't hugely helpful so here we go check out <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealFlayra?blend=2&ob=1#p/a" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealFlayra?...=2&ob=1#p/a</a> for all of the current reveal videos etc.
I do stand by your posting manner could use some improvement though, people are much more likely to be friendly and nice if you are.
<!--quoteo(post=1735576:date=Nov 2 2009, 06:19 PM:name=MrWizard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrWizard @ Nov 2 2009, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735576"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is as you describe, but one method for giving the aliens a bit of new jazz without creating a new alien lifeform would be to junction new abilities [mouse2] to the ones they've already created. Of course figuring out what to add is still a difficult task haha<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A side effect of current design is that you can generally predict what a human is capable of just by looking at him. You can see what weapon he's holding. No such luck with aliens. You see it's a lerk, but that's all you know. Redemption ? Carapace ? Sensors ? Adrenaline ?
I think it's a fair point that there's a lot of info scattered around and not an easy way to find it all. Maybe a good candidate for a 'where's everything FAQ' webbed post for people new to the forums or the game. Especially since the dev team often has better things to do with their time than update the website.
<!--quoteo(post=1735343:date=Nov 1 2009, 03:15 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 1 2009, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Why pay $40 for something that is already out for free?"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What would you like them to do for an exclusively MP sequel to an exclusively MP game? Create a deep interesting story? Turn the skulks into mutant clown squirrels? If you ask me, it has all the things a sequel needs. All the aliens have been rehashed with new looks, new play styles (For the most part). New weapons, new weapon models for old weapons, new gameplay elements, new marine models, new engine which includes, physics, dynamic lighting, easily accessible SDK and tools-...
What more do you need?!?! If this isn't a troll post then I've relost my faith in humanity (Despite never having it).
Oh and by the way, do you really want to play a HL1 mod with limited features when there's a $20 buck one that's on a new custom, beautiful engine with full support for mods?
<b>Edit:</b><!--quoteo(post=1735487:date=Nov 2 2009, 02:53 AM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Nov 2 2009, 02:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if you still think they are similar, then I have no idea what is "change" for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PS: There seems to be a certain group of people in the world who just can't stand whenever a game, movie, song, album is similar to the previous. They seem to expect everything to be completely different and still awesome, somehow. Truth is, sometimes people like things that are very similar to the original, but that really is not the case with NS2 as it is not that similar.
It's the only reason I can think someone would complain about NS2 being NS1. If you're going to get to the basics then yeah, they are similar. Similar like how a garbage truck and a golf cart both have wheels, a frame and an engine. NS2 is a shooter with RTS elements where one team shoots aliens and the other team bites marines... You're a bit limited to how you change those things. Yet they have been changed in NS2. You have new ways to shoot/kill the aliens, you've got more than one commander at a time and you've got new abilities. That's quite a bit of new/changed things.
So just to make sure my point is a hundred percent clear. NS1 and NS2 are different games with a new engine, abilities, weapons, and gameplay mechanics. That's basically what you get with a sequel. As I said earlier, if you were expecting them to add some sort of giant whale who is wearing an Uncle Sam outfit in place of an Onos... Well, you've been let down.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1735677:date=:name=MonsieurEvil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MonsieurEvil) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's a fair point that there's a lot of info scattered around and not an easy way to find it all. Maybe a good candidate for a 'where's everything FAQ' webbed post for people new to the forums or the game. Especially since the dev team often has better things to do with their time than update the website.
I volunteer... you, random reader.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The <a href="http://www.ausns2.com/articles/ns2-what-we-know-mmmmegalist" target="_blank">AusNs2 Megalist</a> does a pretty good job of this. I don't think it's totally up to date at present, but I think they're working on bringing the most recent stuff in.
Same reason you buy the next call of duty, or the next left4dead, or the next battlefield.
It's the same game, just with a new look, and maybe some slightly altered mechanics/general improvements based on issues with the first one, you buy it because it's going to have new players, new visuals, and some new maps to play on, and you enjoyed the last game so you're likely to enjoy this one too, especially seeing as the devs have seen the old one and hopefully fixed some of the issues you had with it. A minor improvement to an already enjoyable game.
<!--quoteo(post=1736399:date=Nov 5 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Seker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seker @ Nov 5 2009, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This could be usually done with updates though :P
But that wouldnt gain any money errr ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's only so much you can do with updates. We're talking about a new engine here, not just a couple balance updates to keep things interesting for the old school players
I don't understand how you can say this isn't a sequel, with all the proposed changes and the mass of information we don't know yet (which will of course include more changes), the brand new engine, etc. I mean, how can this game not be considered a sequel when millions of people bought Halo 1, 2 and 3, which honestly weren't that different from eachother at all.
Unless your argument is that "NS1 and NS2 will be too similar because you still get resources and shoot at aliens with guns." What kind of changes were you hoping for exactly?
It is funny how there are people who feel the complete opposite of the OP: that NS2 will no longer be their beloved NS. It would be safe to say that there are more people who worry about NS2 retaining the "feel" of NS1 than people, like Temphage, who worry that NS2=NS.
Temphage, your expectations may be too high from a sequel. What do you expect?! Did Half-life 2 also not live up to your expectations, because it just had graphical update and recycled almost all weapons (the only new thing was physics)? You must have really hated TeamFortress2, because they removed a LOT of features from the original and didn't add anything new. To think of it, you probably never played it, since TF is basically the same thing, right?
I'm exaggerating, but i hope you get the point: list things that you'd expect in order to make NS2 worth buying.
I for 1 do not want to see much of anything from NS1 in NS2. I think an entirely new experience would better interest those that have no idea what NS1 is... because NS1 is not a very fun game 99% of the time, until the odds are in your favor. At least that is what i remember from playing it. Also those times when people forget about winning and just do something for the fun of it... like make a gorge bunker, or ninja relocate + turtle... ftw! :P
Comments
You've got:
Small scout - Skulk
Flying support - Lerk
Hit and run fast mover - Fade
Builder - Gorge
Heavy attack - Onos
Depending on upgrades in NS1 each of these 5 classes could be an ambusher, fast mover or heavy hitter in various combinations which gives the feel of additional classes without having to create each variation. ie a leaping focused skulk would be a heavy hitter. Silence and cloaking for ambush for skulk. Some classes fit their upgrades better than others for sure, but that is how it goes. I always thought the Fade was a bit large for it's role but the game play worked out fine.
In between classes are usually not as effective as dedicated ones and I'm just not sure what is missing. What other classes would you suggest?
QFT.
There is a lot of material to go through with the past casts and blogs so I can see how it would be daunting. That alone should give you an indication that there are a decent amount of changes however. If you want a quick overview AusNS has <a href="http://www.ausns2.com/articles/ns2-what-we-know-mmmmegalist" target="_blank"> a megalist</a> with a lot of stuff(it hasn't really been updated since the fan video, but it's good for older news).
A 10 res push breaker alien. Basically a stronger and slow skulk, capable of taking maybe two and a half SG blasts. It would give the aliens the ability to invest more into momentary pushes and defence, a little like marines can add shotguns.
I haven't ignored anything - only <b>two people</b> posted anything even remotely helpful, and that goes for your worthless post as well. Yes, the NS community is so friendly and helpful I was literally told I wasn't a big enough fan about NS2 that I shouldn't even bother buying the game. Did you miss that post, perchance?
And then it turns out the last page and a half of whining and ###### that I'm not a "real fan" could've been summed up with a single URL to AusNS. There's 33 posts in this thread right now, and only two of them actually helped.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not down to us to convince you to purchase the game. If you can't be bothered to look up what's new then you clearly weren't interested in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not ignorant about the NS community. Yes I remember the NS community being extremely helpful and nice, when admins were banning new players for being confused and not totally knowing what was happening, when the larger clans like #cri would try to crash servers they didn't like (I actually think NSLearn tried to do it once, and built a blacklist of servers the tutors didn't like and told all the new players to avoid them), or when these forums regularly degraded into a hellhole of people judging the quality of your post based on whether you had a vet icon or not (which meant you were a scrub and your posts could be ignored), and the only POSSIBLE reason anyone could NOT want bhop is because they were a noob and couldn't do it (and were told as such).
Please, don't kid yourself. I said from what I saw and knew NS2 didn't have that much stuff to differentiate it from NS1, and Bacillus proved me wrong. I accepted that, and thank him for it. Then the rest of the "community" flips the ###### out, and you're saying everyone is cuddly and nice.
You're lucky I knew better than to expect the NS community to do anything BUT, and I can troll with the best of them - because if this is how you guys behave towards the huge influx of new players NS2 is going to bring, your presence and attitude is going to do some serious ****ing damage.
You're lucky I knew better than to expect the NS community to do anything BUT, and I can troll with the best of them - because if this is how you guys behave towards the huge influx of new players NS2 is going to bring, your presence and attitude is going to do some serious ****ing damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just read this thread today, and I don't see it the way you're describing it.
If you just wanted more information about the game you could have said that instead of proposing that almost nothing has changed.
The comments made by other posters weren't nearly as inciting as yours. After getting some examples you immediately derailed your own topic into badmouthing old clans and the forum community.
It is as you describe, but one method for giving the aliens a bit of new jazz without creating a new alien lifeform would be to junction new abilities [mouse2] to the ones they've already created. Of course figuring out what to add is still a difficult task haha
<!--quoteo(post=1735559:date=Nov 2 2009, 08:41 AM:name=XeZo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XeZo @ Nov 2 2009, 08:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im just still angry at all the retards who made them go back to pistol and knife instead of the awesome NEW and DIFFRENT weapon they were gonna use..! >_><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, no knife.... SwitchAx! ;D
I do stand by your posting manner could use some improvement though, people are much more likely to be friendly and nice if you are.
A side effect of current design is that you can generally predict what a human is capable of just by looking at him. You can see what weapon he's holding. No such luck with aliens. You see it's a lerk, but that's all you know. Redemption ? Carapace ? Sensors ? Adrenaline ?
I volunteer... you, random reader.
What would you like them to do for an exclusively MP sequel to an exclusively MP game? Create a deep interesting story? Turn the skulks into mutant clown squirrels? If you ask me, it has all the things a sequel needs. All the aliens have been rehashed with new looks, new play styles (For the most part). New weapons, new weapon models for old weapons, new gameplay elements, new marine models, new engine which includes, physics, dynamic lighting, easily accessible SDK and tools-...
What more do you need?!?!
If this isn't a troll post then I've relost my faith in humanity (Despite never having it).
Oh and by the way, do you really want to play a HL1 mod with limited features when there's a $20 buck one that's on a new custom, beautiful engine with full support for mods?
<b>Edit:</b><!--quoteo(post=1735487:date=Nov 2 2009, 02:53 AM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Nov 2 2009, 02:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if you still think they are similar, then I have no idea what is "change" for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PS: There seems to be a certain group of people in the world who just can't stand whenever a game, movie, song, album is similar to the previous. They seem to expect everything to be completely different and still awesome, somehow. Truth is, sometimes people like things that are very similar to the original, but that really is not the case with NS2 as it is not that similar.
It's the only reason I can think someone would complain about NS2 being NS1. If you're going to get to the basics then yeah, they are similar. Similar like how a garbage truck and a golf cart both have wheels, a frame and an engine. NS2 is a shooter with RTS elements where one team shoots aliens and the other team bites marines... You're a bit limited to how you change those things. Yet they have been changed in NS2. You have new ways to shoot/kill the aliens, you've got more than one commander at a time and you've got new abilities. That's quite a bit of new/changed things.
So just to make sure my point is a hundred percent clear. NS1 and NS2 are different games with a new engine, abilities, weapons, and gameplay mechanics. That's basically what you get with a sequel. As I said earlier, if you were expecting them to add some sort of giant whale who is wearing an Uncle Sam outfit in place of an Onos... Well, you've been let down.
'nuff said
I volunteer... you, random reader.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The <a href="http://www.ausns2.com/articles/ns2-what-we-know-mmmmegalist" target="_blank">AusNs2 Megalist</a> does a pretty good job of this. I don't think it's totally up to date at present, but I think they're working on bringing the most recent stuff in.
It's the same game, just with a new look, and maybe some slightly altered mechanics/general improvements based on issues with the first one, you buy it because it's going to have new players, new visuals, and some new maps to play on, and you enjoyed the last game so you're likely to enjoy this one too, especially seeing as the devs have seen the old one and hopefully fixed some of the issues you had with it. A minor improvement to an already enjoyable game.
But that wouldnt gain any money errr ^^
But that wouldnt gain any money errr ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's only so much you can do with updates. We're talking about a new engine here, not just a couple balance updates to keep things interesting for the old school players
But some people mentioned the thousands of call of duty games ;D
The link's right at the top of the page...
Unless your argument is that "NS1 and NS2 will be too similar because you still get resources and shoot at aliens with guns." What kind of changes were you hoping for exactly?
Temphage, your expectations may be too high from a sequel. What do you expect?! Did Half-life 2 also not live up to your expectations, because it just had graphical update and recycled almost all weapons (the only new thing was physics)?
You must have really hated TeamFortress2, because they removed a LOT of features from the original and didn't add anything new. To think of it, you probably never played it, since TF is basically the same thing, right?
I'm exaggerating, but i hope you get the point: list things that you'd expect in order to make NS2 worth buying.