How much of NS2 is actually "new"?
Temphage
Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
I've been contemplating buying the preorder for NS2 for some time now, but my thoughts keep going back to the same thing - that while what I've seen of NS2 is impressive in terms of the work that's been done, I don't actually see anything that makes me want to pre-order. Everything in NS2 just appears to be a rebuild of NS1, and the voice of dissent here says "Why pay $40 for something that is already out for free?" NS2 is a sequel to NS1, but to me it just looks more like an expansion pack. Sure we have a new mechanic in the power grid, and we'll see how DI works out, but we're still screwing around with the same aliens, the same weapons, and presumably the same upgrades. In fact, unbeknownst to me, the Halloween update revealed that they actually planned to <i>cut</i> features that were in NS1 (heavy armor).
Can't help but feel that this is similar to the L4D2 situation - getting some graphics updates, a few new maps, reskinned guns, but ultimately it's just the same game with a retail pricetag slapped on. While I'm sure there will be some gameplay variations due to simple balance directions (ie: skulks are much larger), I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't NS<b>2</b> at all. Are we just remaking NS1 to appease the die-hard fans that are still around? Or is there some significant new stuff that we've yet to see coming? To be completely frank, right now I just tend to think of NS2 as an NS1 expansion pack. Granted, while I&S has always been a hilarious hellhole, I see ideas shot down because "It's not NS", "It's in another game", or simple balance complaining because it wouldn't work in NS1, so therefore it won't work in NS2.
Am I the only one who feels this way? Again I want to reiterate that having built an engine from scratch and made what I can see is incredibly impressive and had this been the original release of NS I'd have jumped on in a heartbeat, but as it is, it's just not working for me to pay for a game that already exists and was paid with donations in the past.
Flamesuit on :C
Can't help but feel that this is similar to the L4D2 situation - getting some graphics updates, a few new maps, reskinned guns, but ultimately it's just the same game with a retail pricetag slapped on. While I'm sure there will be some gameplay variations due to simple balance directions (ie: skulks are much larger), I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't NS<b>2</b> at all. Are we just remaking NS1 to appease the die-hard fans that are still around? Or is there some significant new stuff that we've yet to see coming? To be completely frank, right now I just tend to think of NS2 as an NS1 expansion pack. Granted, while I&S has always been a hilarious hellhole, I see ideas shot down because "It's not NS", "It's in another game", or simple balance complaining because it wouldn't work in NS1, so therefore it won't work in NS2.
Am I the only one who feels this way? Again I want to reiterate that having built an engine from scratch and made what I can see is incredibly impressive and had this been the original release of NS I'd have jumped on in a heartbeat, but as it is, it's just not working for me to pay for a game that already exists and was paid with donations in the past.
Flamesuit on :C
Comments
Edit: Not to mention the awesome graphical and engine upgrades. Although it would even be fine if lot of what made NS1 a great game was kept and hopefully it will be, because with a massively increased audience who never got to enjoy the original it will all be new.
Explain? The only new weapon I heard of was the taser, which was cut because everyone hated it.
OH and the siege cannon has some tweaks to it, though I wouldn't call that a new weapon.
OH and the siege cannon has some tweaks to it, though I wouldn't call that a new weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you trolling here? New weapons: miniguns on new heavy, volumetric flamethrower, the multipurpose lmg thing... the mobile siege cannon will be a huge change to gameplay. If you dont think you will get 40 dollars worth of time out of it, buy the 20 dollar version instead.
OH and the siege cannon has some tweaks to it, though I wouldn't call that a new weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Explain? Here's an idea -- go read the old news posts and listen to the video/audio casts. Why should we summarize everything that's already out there but you're just too lazy to find. I expected more from such a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107773" target="_blank">principled man like yourself</a>.
By the way, if "some tweaks" to the siege cannon means it's now an vulnerable player controlled moving tank as opposed to a stationary and 'dumb' turret then yeah, it was slightly tweaked.
Ah, Bacillus took the bait. Now temphage has someone to debate about if NS2 has <i>really</i> changed enough to warrant a <i>whole</i> twenty dollar purchase.
It isn't such a massive difference when it comes to pure gadget wise numbers, but otherwise it's going to be completely new game:
- The alien res model is going to change completely with the introduction of alien commander. There aren't any abilities confirmed yet, but it's a whole new role in the game after all.
- The power grid is most likely going to change the whole flow of gameplay. The game doesn't probably spread out as much and the fights are more focused to a certain area.
- The dynamic infestation has probably a big influence on gameplay, although the details are still unknown.
- The lifeform roles are different. Gorge seems to have lost some building capasity, but has received more combat capabilities. Fade was called a 'surgical striker' at some point. Onos probably makes a big comeback in one form or another. Skulk's skirmisher nature seems quite unlikely in NS2. Lerk receives some kind of close range bites instead of bite.
- The marine system moves to a more individual driven res model. The exact details are still unknown, but at least weapon selection seems to be marine controlled now.
- The marine sieging is now controlled by a MASC, practically a moving siege tank. The whole mechanic of marine sieging is different and creates a new kind of slow pushing element I guess.
- The movement physics are going to change. Most likely any movement related skills are made more accessible, creating a whole new branch of gameplay for people who didn't use the movement system in original NS.
- The squad based respawning is most likely going to affect the flow of gameplay quite a bit. The marine pushes reinforce continuosly instead of slowly falling apart due to casualties.
I can probably think of more if necessary.
So, instead of reskinning some weapons and variating their attributes a bit to add cheap content NS2 seems to create a whole new way of gameplay. The hardcore fans are damn scared because <b>more or less the whole nature of game is going to change</b>. So far UWE has replaced most of the elements that made me love NS1 and I'm looking forward to see how they are planning to replace those elements.
Edit: Heh yeh, Steve got it right already. Oh well, posting here buys me some free time from the physics studies. I'll do anything from troll feeding to house cleanup to stay away from those.
NS1 is like Counterstrike 1.6, if you go back and play it the only people you will find are the die-hard players, who all play at an extremely high level (this tends to make casual play less fun)...all the most effective strategies in NS are hard-coded in these people by now, and they don't take well to deviations
There's also the huge modding potential we're expecting from this new, easy-to-work-with engine...you can expect to see FPS, RPG, RTS, racing, etc. gametypes pop up after the main game is released
BTW, you can always go with the $20 version, ya cheapskate
It isn't such a massive difference when it comes to pure gadget wise numbers, but otherwise it's going to be completely new game:
- The alien res model is going to change completely with the introduction of alien commander. There aren't any abilities confirmed yet, but it's a whole new role in the game after all.
- The power grid is most likely going to change the whole flow of gameplay. The game doesn't probably spread out as much and the fights are more focused to a certain area.
- The dynamic infestation has probably a big influence on gameplay, although the details are still unknown.
- The lifeform roles are different. Gorge seems to have lost some building capasity, but has received more combat capabilities. Fade was called a 'surgical striker' at some point. Onos probably makes a big comeback in one form or another. Skulk's skirmisher nature seems quite unlikely in NS2. Lerk receives some kind of close range bites instead of bite.
- The marine system moves to a more individual driven res model. The exact details are still unknown, but at least weapon selection seems to be marine controlled now.
- The marine sieging is now controlled by a MASC, practically a moving siege tank. The whole mechanic of marine sieging is different and creates a new kind of slow pushing element I guess.
- The movement physics are going to change. Most likely any movement related skills are made more accessible, creating a whole new branch of gameplay for people who didn't use the movement system in original NS.
- The squad based respawning is most likely going to affect the flow of gameplay quite a bit. The marine pushes reinforce continuosly instead of slowly falling apart due to casualties.
I can probably think of more if necessary.
So, instead of reskinning some weapons and variating their attributes a bit to add cheap content NS2 seems to create a whole new way of gameplay. The hardcore fans are damn scared because <b>more or less the whole nature of game is going to change</b>. So far UWE has replaced most of the elements that made me love NS1 and I'm looking forward to see how they are planning to replace those elements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a total load of junk- NS2 is like the Madden 2010 of sequels. They have updated the stats, touched up the graphics only a little bit, but its basically the same thing. Unknown Worlds is the new EA.
;)
Course if you keep the ###### like .txt around, that won't happen.
Thanks, Bacillus. Glad to see that aside from you, the NS community hasn't changed at all. Can't wait to get back to the days of the competitive scene crashing pub servers with hacks running because they're all just 'scrubs' anyway.
;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, you are choosing to ignore the changes UWE has told us about its sequel? If that's the case there's no point arguing with you, just don't preorder the game...(and buy it after it comes out if you want)
Dude, he's being sarcastic! You fell face first into that troll bait in the worst way...
Nah, I probably did that. Missing sarcasm is a little different.
who is trolling who now? Lol. Yeah I was being extremely facetious, sorry for that.
Thanks, Bacillus. Glad to see that aside from you, the NS community hasn't changed at all. Can't wait to get back to the days of the competitive scene crashing pub servers with hacks running because they're all just 'scrubs' anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice. You were one of the random's that we raged seven years ago.
Rest assured, we look forward to raging the people who think we hack in NS2 as well.
Rest assured, we look forward to raging the people who think we hack in NS2 as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, .txt was never good enough to pretend to hack - you guys just tried your hardest to make the community as hostile and unfriendly as you possibly could.
Quite the impressive feat for four people who never spoke in game. I concede the point to you, sir. See you in NS2 :D
Don't movie remakes 99% of the time usually completely suck? :D
Again though, my question was answered. Yelling at anyone asking what exactly differentiates NS2 from NS1 to go sit through hours of podcasts scattered around is worthless and retarded.
I remember two years ago, when all anyone was asking for was Natural Selection with pretty graphics. Not that this is the case, but it's just interesting to me how it's completely impossible to please everyone.
On the topic of L4D2, from the demo it's a worthy sequel to the original and manages to improve on everything. And this is coming from someone that was nothing but sceptical about it. So take what you will from that.
Did you buy any of the Halo sequels? How about Gears of War? Half Life 2? Ever been a JRPG fan? Starcraft 2 looks like it's going to be the same thing, so are you looking at that? Diablo 2?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can't help but feel that this is similar to the L4D2 situation - getting some graphics updates, a few new maps, reskinned guns, but ultimately it's just the same game with a retail pricetag slapped on. While I'm sure there will be some gameplay variations due to simple balance directions (ie: skulks are much larger), I just can't shake the feeling that this isn't NS<b>2</b> at all. Are we just remaking NS1 to appease the die-hard fans that are still around? Or is there some significant new stuff that we've yet to see coming? To be completely frank, right now I just tend to think of NS2 as an NS1 expansion pack. Granted, while I&S has always been a hilarious hellhole, I see ideas shot down because "It's not NS", "It's in another game", or simple balance complaining because it wouldn't work in NS1, so therefore it won't work in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Compare L4D and its sequel to Halo and its first sequel. You'll notice some distinct similarities in the nature of each title's release differences regarding gameplay. The thing that's stupid about the boycotters wanting stuff for free is that they're complaining about the wrong thing...which is that they should be complaining about paying industry standard price for a game that is strictly multiplayer. Twice. But then, L4D is more complicated than that and I'm oversimplifying it in that description.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am I the only one who feels this way? Again I want to reiterate that having built an engine from scratch and made what I can see is incredibly impressive and had this been the original release of NS I'd have jumped on in a heartbeat, but as it is, it's just not working for me to pay for a game that already exists and was paid with donations in the past.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're <i>also</i> comparing NS and NS2 with UWE against L4D and L4D2 with Valve. Which has more money and a bigger team? While I may not have the numbers on hand, I'm pretty confident that the donations from Constellation and what-not amount to such a tiny drop in the bucket compared to Valve's earnings from its releases it would be laughable.
::
Just out of curiosity, anyone got a history of FPS games moving from id's Quake to Valve's Half-Life? I'd imagine it would parallel the "Release it now now now!" BAWing over NS2.
Hopefully this should be possible to some extend with modding tools...
Hopefully this should be possible to some extend with modding tools...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think thats what they actually are planning on doing. Now don't take my word as absolute truth, but I remember reading that the Hivemind was going to be able to spend res to move sliders that affected the various attributes of the upgrades. So if the marines were going all JP then the alien comm could spend some res to increase movement speed and energy regen or something like that.
Funny, I have almost the same complaints about all those games. Could not possibly give less of a ###### about any of the mediocre crap Blizzard churns out.
<!--quoteo(post=1735383:date=Nov 1 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Nov 1 2009, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not down to us to convince you to purchase the game. If you can't be bothered to look up what's new then you clearly weren't interested in the first place.
I remember two years ago, when all anyone was asking for was Natural Selection with pretty graphics. Not that this is the case, but it's just interesting to me how it's completely impossible to please everyone.
On the topic of L4D2, from the demo it's a worthy sequel to the original and manages to improve on everything. And this is coming from someone that was nothing but sceptical about it. So take what you will from that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's fair to say that most, if not all the people that still make up the NS community are the die-hard fans. And I think it's safe to say they've almost all preordered copies.
Now where the hell do you think REAL sales are going to come from? From people interested in the mod, who come here wondering what it's about, the response is:
"<b>LOL READ THE NEWS ARCHIVES YOU F*@!# NOOB LOLOL GTFO SCRUB UR NOT A REAL FAN OMG B&</b>"?
A lot of people played NS over the years and left for various reasons. Some left in 1.04, some in 2.0, and in my case, 3.0 was such a horrible product with Combat and all, that I couldn't stand to play it any more. Now I'm interested again, but it's cool that anyone who wants to buy the game you consider to not be a "real fan" and therefore, presumably, not worthy of playing the game with a gaming Adonis such as yourself. I wonder how Flayra would feel if he knew the community is so incredibly full of themselves that they're willing to risk crippling sales just to prove how badass and hardcore they are.
Ya your right, they do most of the time. But hopefully this game wont. But I was mainly trying to convey an analogy of why I don't think you can compare NS2 with a sequel like L4D2. But I kind of don't get it now as I try to think about what I was trying to say. Ignore everything I said =(.
That is a good point. However as it stands now I think the game isn't quite ready to "advertise" so to speak, we are going to need trailers and more organized information until we can start getting people who haven't seen Natural Selection for a while interested. For the time being the best you can do is look at the teaser site and read up on some old news archives, because new information rolls out fairly sparodically and you have to stay in tune constantly if you don't want to miss anything.
I can assure you, being a follower myself, that alot has changed and you need not worry about NS2 being NS1 with a new coat of paint. Read through the Alien reveals, and some of the longer blogs detailing new Marine gameplay and map changes.
I am really surprised that you are saying that there is little change. It is a welcome breath of fresh air actually from all those people screaming too much change.
Mod = modification of existing software to achieve a different play style while still being limited to the original game's technology. Free. Not always the most functional or bug free. Worked on in spare time by people who work on other things for their actual livelihood.
Retail Game = Brand new software to actually achieve everything wanted in said play style without limitations. Paid for and therefore higher quality, more q&a, more post-release support, more love from the team making it because it is their source of income. Also the people making it are employed to make it rather than just work on it in their spare time.
There is actually a decent precedent for this type of thing in the gaming world. Counter strike started as a mod and then became a retail game, red-orchestra a ut2k4 mod started as a mod and then became a stand-alone retail game with the same game play, but new and updated features worth the price tag. Desert-Combat a bf 1942 mod led to that mod team being hired and working on bf2 in a similar way to the mechanics found in their original mod.
Just because it is the same type of game with the similar features does not mean it isn't worth having a new retail version that is worth spending the money on because of the difference that will be found in quality, fun factor, support, and overall enjoyment.
The only exception I can think of is TF2 when it comes to mp fpsers.