I played a lot of NS and a lot of CS, both competitvely. Your completely ignoring the fact that one, Fades blink, skulks leap and hop around and lerks fly. HOW THE F* would you expect to take down a lerk or whatever with recoil. Bad idea, no offense to you :)
In CS, you keep the crosshair at eye level, and pull down when shooting. The models are all at the same level. Makes more sense for these games.
It is a good idea, because your looking for realism and that's cool, but I think it would just be way to0 difficult to take down aliens.
Worries about not being able to kill fast enemies because of recoil rest upon the assumption that the damage of each weapon is not simultaneously rebalanced. Quite frankly, I think the CS style of recoil is showing its age - the inclusion of more accurately modelled recoil leaves the player with more room to improve by not imposing an utterly arbitrary ceiling on accuracy that the cone of fire system gives you.
Tripwire Interactive's <i>Killing Floor</i> has proven that fast paced shooters can work brilliantly with iron-sights, no cross-hair, decent recoil and weapons that feel & sound really solid and satisfying. Its still very possible to hit things without going into iron-sights and there is no obvious artificial cone of fire mechanic in play here.
My apologies for the thread revival but this is just about my only serious concern for this game now after being blown away by the screen-shots. I feel weapon handling can make or break a games atmosphere and the choice of system really sets the tone - especially in first-person shooters, sounds obvious, no?
Edit: Talking about iron-sights is quite ridiculous in a sci-fi setting - it would clearly be something more like an <a href="http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=EOTECH&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi" target="_blank">EOTech</a> but my point stands.
<!--quoteo(post=1734881:date=Oct 31 2009, 04:55 AM:name=Forral)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Forral @ Oct 31 2009, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1734881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tripwire Interactive's <i>Killing Floor</i> has proven that fast paced shooters can work brilliantly with iron-sights, no cross-hair, decent recoil and weapons that feel & sound really solid and satisfying. Its still very possible to hit things without going into iron-sights and there is no obvious artificial cone of fire mechanic in play here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Could you describe that function a bit. I've been considering Killing Floor, but so far I haven't had time to dedicate myself to another game. How does it work? Why do you need ironsights in a fast paced game? Why not just blast them without any aiming?
LMG's dont need recoil. If any weapon is to be affected by recoil it should be HMG's. Maybe a gradual rise in the muzzle and a slight increase in the cone of fire with an ideal burst of maybe 10-15 rounds.
<!--quoteo(post=1712240:date=Jun 14 2009, 04:19 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 14 2009, 04:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No sights either. NS is close quarters combat, small arms and such (relatively speaking). Firing from the hip, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting" target="_blank">Point Shooting</a>. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_quarters_combat" target="_blank">Close Quarters Battle</a>. That sort of thing. Again, sights would simply be impractical for attacking fast-free-moving aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In close quarter combat you always have your rifle in your shoulder or the centre of your chest and you are face on to the enemy. Shooting from the hip just gets you killed.
Agree they would be impractical for fast moving aliens and would only be of use against slower moving or stationary targets in which case the pistol is the favoured choice.
<!--quoteo(post=1714857:date=Jun 30 2009, 07:12 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 30 2009, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But my point was, it's unrealistic to 'zoom in' when you bring your eye up to the sights, when a big (probably the main) part of the iron sights idea is to make the game more realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> its also unrealistic to have first round hits on a target when shooting from the hip
I think as they already want to reduce the hud crosshairs should be replaced by laserpointers/dots just the way you can see it on the NS menu, i'd prefer these over ironsights.
Yes! I think using laser-sights instead of cross-hairs is a fantastic compromise Kradath.
Bacillus, its difficult to describe how it works exactly but the <b>incentive</b> to use iron-sights (they are by no means mandatory) in <i>Killing Floor</i> lies in the need to:
- Fire more accurately to take down the enemy faster. - Conserve ammunition. - Shoot at anything that is any distance away.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
edited October 2009
i really like the laser sight idea :)
don't really see the point in having ironsights in the future, as the hud on marine would be sync'd to where the weapon is aiming so you can fire from the hip quite accurately
also in a lot of games there is not much incentive to look down the ironsight
Of course the laserpointer/dot would be switchable, as you're also revealing yourself to the kharaa when it is on. This would be a trade off at least against the bigger skulks and it makes the game more dense as you always have to compare if it is worth it using the pointer and showing yourself.
i would say add recoil to the game but make it controllable with skill, just as we have seen in other fps games cs etc, But not as much recoil as in cs it should be runnable while shooting.
also no ###### ironsight, Instead remove crosshair and add red dot aka lasersight!
Why are people comparing killing floor to NS2? Until told otherwise I'm going to assume NS2 still has NS1's fast paced gameplay. Killing Floor is rather slow compared to NS1. Just because iron sights work in killing floor, which they do, doesn't mean they'll work in NS2.
I don't understand why people think recoil is any worse than conefire? It's just more realistic but it's the same end result. You DO know there is conefire, right? Hold down the mouse button and the bullets all don't go in the same place. Recoil does the same thing, just with a tendancy to go upwards instead of randomly.
really, recoil means a more predictable bullet spread. More skill, less spray and pray.
It's just serious .. ugh I can't even think of the word. Just kneejerk reactions.
As far as Ironsights, your character has a HUD for displaying the crosshair so there is no need. I would quite like having weaponsway with the crosshair devianting from the center of the screen with the sway of the weapon. Like very mild freeaim showing exactly where the gun is pointed, though. It would feel more real. I love ironsights, I love realism, but I don't find it realistic to have ironsights when you have a hud projected in front of your face to show you exactly where your weapon is pointed. Now , to have that crosshair move a tiny bit when you're running from weaponsway would be sweet and add to the realism, yeah. But not too much, and not nessisarily having freeaim.
Recoil is a counter strike thing, not a hl thing I'd be fine with it so long as head shots counted and fades could shoot back and aliens had grenade chambers(think oc + boom)
<b>Upward-jerk recoil or conefire</b>: I could take or leave these. As long as the inacuracy is a <b>smooth</b> progression so that you can choose to make short bursts, I think NS could work with it provided the gun damage was rebalanced appropriately.
<b>Iron-sights</b>: No. This type of zoom system tends to promote gameplay where you find a good corner and park your butt and then try to blast something that may or may not appear in a distant doroway. If it's in at all, it should be only for really long-range shots, instead of--as in some other games--a virtual requirement for engaging any enemy outside five feet.
Comments
In CS, you keep the crosshair at eye level, and pull down when shooting. The models are all at the same level. Makes more sense for these games.
It is a good idea, because your looking for realism and that's cool, but I think it would just be way to0 difficult to take down aliens.
Tripwire Interactive's <i>Killing Floor</i> has proven that fast paced shooters can work brilliantly with iron-sights, no cross-hair, decent recoil and weapons that feel & sound really solid and satisfying. Its still very possible to hit things without going into iron-sights and there is no obvious artificial cone of fire mechanic in play here.
My apologies for the thread revival but this is just about my only serious concern for this game now after being blown away by the screen-shots. I feel weapon handling can make or break a games atmosphere and the choice of system really sets the tone - especially in first-person shooters, sounds obvious, no?
Edit: Talking about iron-sights is quite ridiculous in a sci-fi setting - it would clearly be something more like an <a href="http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=EOTECH&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi" target="_blank">EOTech</a> but my point stands.
Could you describe that function a bit. I've been considering Killing Floor, but so far I haven't had time to dedicate myself to another game. How does it work? Why do you need ironsights in a fast paced game? Why not just blast them without any aiming?
<!--quoteo(post=1712240:date=Jun 14 2009, 04:19 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 14 2009, 04:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No sights either. NS is close quarters combat, small arms and such (relatively speaking). Firing from the hip, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting" target="_blank">Point Shooting</a>. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_quarters_combat" target="_blank">Close Quarters Battle</a>. That sort of thing.
Again, sights would simply be impractical for attacking fast-free-moving aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In close quarter combat you always have your rifle in your shoulder or the centre of your chest and you are face on to the enemy. Shooting from the hip just gets you killed.
Agree they would be impractical for fast moving aliens and would only be of use against slower moving or stationary targets in which case the pistol is the favoured choice.
<!--quoteo(post=1714857:date=Jun 30 2009, 07:12 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 30 2009, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But my point was, it's unrealistic to 'zoom in' when you bring your eye up to the sights, when a big (probably the main) part of the iron sights idea is to make the game more realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its also unrealistic to have first round hits on a target when shooting from the hip
Bacillus, its difficult to describe how it works exactly but the <b>incentive</b> to use iron-sights (they are by no means mandatory) in <i>Killing Floor</i> lies in the need to:
- Fire more accurately to take down the enemy faster.
- Conserve ammunition.
- Shoot at anything that is any distance away.
don't really see the point in having ironsights in the future, as the hud on marine would be sync'd to where the weapon is aiming so you can fire from the hip quite accurately
also in a lot of games there is not much incentive to look down the ironsight
also no ###### ironsight, Instead remove crosshair and add red dot aka lasersight!
Why are people comparing killing floor to NS2? Until told otherwise I'm going to assume NS2 still has NS1's fast paced gameplay. Killing Floor is rather slow compared to NS1. Just because iron sights work in killing floor, which they do, doesn't mean they'll work in NS2.
It's just more realistic but it's the same end result. You DO know there is conefire, right? Hold down the mouse button and the bullets all don't go in the same place. Recoil does the same thing, just with a tendancy to go upwards instead of randomly.
really, recoil means a more predictable bullet spread. More skill, less spray and pray.
It's just serious .. ugh I can't even think of the word. Just kneejerk reactions.
As far as Ironsights, your character has a HUD for displaying the crosshair so there is no need. I would quite like having weaponsway with the crosshair devianting from the center of the screen with the sway of the weapon. Like very mild freeaim showing exactly where the gun is pointed, though. It would feel more real.
I love ironsights, I love realism, but I don't find it realistic to have ironsights when you have a hud projected in front of your face to show you exactly where your weapon is pointed. Now , to have that crosshair move a tiny bit when you're running from weaponsway would be sweet and add to the realism, yeah. But not too much, and not nessisarily having freeaim.
I'd be fine with it so long as head shots counted and fades could shoot back and aliens had grenade chambers(think oc + boom)
<b>Iron-sights</b>: No. This type of zoom system tends to promote gameplay where you find a good corner and park your butt and then try to blast something that may or may not appear in a distant doroway. If it's in at all, it should be only for really long-range shots, instead of--as in some other games--a virtual requirement for engaging any enemy outside five feet.
Quake/UT/TF(NOT TF2, LOL Z!!!) and such are all about the speed with precision accuracy. So it really is not the same exact context.
But take a game like Counter-Strike and make all the weapons with CoF style shooting, Snipers would have a field day of decapitation.
Maybe if someone makes a Marine vs. Marine Mod, then we could have Counter-Strike style shooting.
Ironsight = Who is the better camper, dolphin diver, or anti-recoil scripter.