Marines Weapons in NS2: recoil and ironsights
NeoSniper
Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What does the community think about recoil and ironsighs in NS2?</div>If you have played Red Orchertra, Day of Defeat, Call of Duty 4, Battlefield 2, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
If not then:
-Recoil is two things: first it jerks your view point a bit when you shoot and two it also wides the spread of the bullets the longer you keep the trigger (mouse1) pressed. usually indicated by expanding crosshairs. This is seen is most recent shooter games. In general games that include recoil will also include the ability to lower recoil at the cost of mobility by crouching (and furthermore by going prone)
-ironsights is when you can hit a button to bring up your weapon to eye level thus increasing your accuracy at the cost of a narrower field of view (FOV) and slower movement. Usually there is a slight zoom coupled with the narrowing of the FOV. Some games like (BF1942) included this mechanic without actually doing the ironsights animation (just the minizoom).
What do others think about this?
I think yes as it would add a lot more tactical feel to the game possibilities to the game. In general it adds skill to the marine gameplay. And a greater incentive to not panic and do the famed pray n' spray. Or incentive from the Alien to induce panic (hmm... maybe primal scream or gas can affect marine accuracy).
If not then:
-Recoil is two things: first it jerks your view point a bit when you shoot and two it also wides the spread of the bullets the longer you keep the trigger (mouse1) pressed. usually indicated by expanding crosshairs. This is seen is most recent shooter games. In general games that include recoil will also include the ability to lower recoil at the cost of mobility by crouching (and furthermore by going prone)
-ironsights is when you can hit a button to bring up your weapon to eye level thus increasing your accuracy at the cost of a narrower field of view (FOV) and slower movement. Usually there is a slight zoom coupled with the narrowing of the FOV. Some games like (BF1942) included this mechanic without actually doing the ironsights animation (just the minizoom).
What do others think about this?
I think yes as it would add a lot more tactical feel to the game possibilities to the game. In general it adds skill to the marine gameplay. And a greater incentive to not panic and do the famed pray n' spray. Or incentive from the Alien to induce panic (hmm... maybe primal scream or gas can affect marine accuracy).
Comments
Keep it like it is!
No
Keep it like it is!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly "is it" currently? Oh wait, we don't know.
Anyway, I don't see the usefulness of either. NS has never tried to be a "gritty, realistic" game, and thats about the only reason to have those features. Just wouldn't work well in NS, IMO.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->obvious attempts to steal concepts from existing games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that how the game industry works most of the time?
obviously from NS1.
I tried to keep the post short and to the point. But of course it would need to be balanced to tweak the amount of bullet damage and amount of spread. To think that one suggests to just make guns less accurate and not change anything else is just shortsighted.
It's just that I fear it would feel downright outdated to have your accuracy be the same when crouching, walking, standing, running, etc.
Doesn't need to be anything super exaggerated but a smaller cone of fire when crouching and a bit bigger one when running would add to the game.
Recoil seems like something more geared twords both teams having guns. Sense that isn't the case with NS, I don't see any need for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1710674:date=Jun 6 2009, 05:34 PM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Jun 6 2009, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1710674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->obviously from NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course that is what you meant, but NS2 is being rebuilt from the ground up, so the "Keep it like it is!" statement is void.
/end nitpicking lol
The best approach, in my opinion, is just to make the gun recoil as much as the devs & testers find balanced, then come up with a clever reason for it being so awesome (or crappy hehe).
less recoil = less spray = less dmg per bullet => hold until your finger bleeds
i'd say both things are fine, but the first will be a pain for skulks(low hp) and onos(really big target)
Ironsight is for me an important point in the gameplay.
Okay. Maybe by a quarter of an inch is fine.
Ironsights are okay in theory, but most players would probably get and artificial aid as makeshift crosshair. I think having the option of iron sights is cool, but it's shouldn't be mandatory.
Just to be clear. That is exactly what I meant by ironsights. I used the term ironsights (in gaming) to simply refer to the act of bringing up the gun to eye level on your shoulder in order to aim (I even mentioned Call of Duty 4 in my OP).
<!--quoteo(post=1710670:date=Jun 6 2009, 03:46 PM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Jun 6 2009, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1710670"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, I don't see the usefulness of either. NS has never tried to be a "gritty, realistic" game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as the general discussion goes it not about realism or grittiness. I about arcade style versus tactical. I think tactical fits NS better and....
<!--quoteo(post=1710686:date=Jun 6 2009, 05:25 PM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Jun 6 2009, 05:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1710686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can foresee them already implementing at least recoil... but again, it's just complicating matters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
....additions like this would bring NS2 on par with most modern tactical games. Yes, it add complexity but in a natural skill based way.
<!--quoteo(post=1710686:date=Jun 6 2009, 05:25 PM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Jun 6 2009, 05:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1710686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Recoil seems like something more geared twords both teams having guns. Sense that isn't the case with NS, I don't see any need for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I present TF2 and L4D, as two examples of very successful games that completely counter this statement. TF2 both teams get guns but no recoil included (iirc). L4D only one side gets guns but there is recoil (and added accuracy from crouching).
I love both TF2 and L4D, but when I comes to NS2 I think the shooting model from L4D is more appropriate with the feel of NS.
I wouldn't mind a more advanced accuracy model that promotes burst-fire or a penalty while jumping, but anything beyond that seems excessive and inconsistent with the gameplay.
What would be cool though is if each weapon had a unique melee characteristic rather than the cliche knife-swap. Bashing a skulk with the butt-end of a shotgun or swiping with the nozzle of the HMG would be a nice addition.
The arcadey movement combined with great depth and some RTS elements and mobile tactics was the backbone of NS. I can't see why NS should switch to less mobile play without a real good reason. The market is flooded with semi realistic games nowaydays, I don't think we need another one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->....additions like this would bring NS2 on par with most modern tactical games. Yes, it add complexity but in a natural skill based way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The great movement and mobility was one of the main reasons why a lot of people rank NS way higher than any modern tactical shooter. Being able to move freely during firefights allows you to use so many sweet teamwork features and tactics that I can't see any 'slow' aiming system improving it unless the whole game is built completely around it.
Your L4D example doesn't hold for NS(2), because the zombies aren't as fast as alien players, and especially because the zombies are still bound to the ground, unlike alien players (leaping, wall-crawling skulks; vents; flying lerks; blinking fades) who have a far greater degree of freedom in their movement. Targeting aliens would be an absolute nightmare, verging on the impossible. There's way too much uncertainty.
Besides, it's the future. (Yes, that's right, the "it's the future" argument.) I'm sure they've come up with dozens of ways of reducing recoil that we haven't tried yet.
No sights either. NS is close quarters combat, small arms and such (relatively speaking). Firing from the hip, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting" target="_blank">Point Shooting</a>. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_quarters_combat" target="_blank">Close Quarters Battle</a>. That sort of thing.
Again, sights would simply be impractical for attacking fast-free-moving aliens.
And I have to say that NS is somewhere between arcadey and tactical. But it's definitely on the arcadey side when we're talking about (lack of) iron sights and recoil.
Its prolly dismissable but during the debut trailer the marines DID take bursts after they said contact, not the straight firing LMG we hear. Thought as i said its prolly not.
Now in terms of recoil and iron sights, I agree with the majority on here that recoil would make it close to impossible for marines to hit a good blinking fade so I don't think the recoil thing would be a good idea. But I do feel that the iron sights (bringing the gun up to eye sight) could work, think about this, the accuracy when normal would be just like NS, but if you shoulder the weapon aka iron sights, the gun fires slightly slower but it gives slightly increased accuracy which would be great for picking off skulks from a distance who may be lurking in a shadow or something. So for the old school players you still have your run and gun ability against fades and onos' etc. but it would also add more depth to the game and bring it up to the modern age of pc games.
And to the guy who thinks that iron sights would be stealing from other games, the concept of iron sights is the standard method of firing any rifle, its 100% unrealistic and retarded to fire a rifle from the hip, you have no accuracy whatsoever so all those games that have iron sights did they steal the concept from life? /s
Recoil and ironsights are to slow for the fast NS1/2 Gameplay <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Watch these two Videos here.
Especialy the Kriss'. Less Muzzleclimb and Recoil than most if not all other SMGs known today - and it fires Caliber .45 Pistol Rounds!
Recoil and ironsights are to slow for the fast NS1/2 Gameplay "
You didn't read my post that is blatantly obvious so shut up that's not what I said.