Certain Upgrades Seem Unused
Snake13
Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 554Members
Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 554Members
<div class="IPBDescription">a change to the upgrade system....</div> In every game I've played we get the chambers in the following order: Defensive, Movement, Sensory.
This is becuase you need defense right away becuase the chamber itself is an invaulable building and then you need movement to make lerks and fades effective. Whats the result of this? certain upgrades go almost completely unused and it seems everyone has the same couple of upgrades.
So whats my suggestion? make them all availble all the time, and make the level of the upgrade dependent on the hive,
This way with one hive a skulk can get cloaking and silence, but only level 1.
This is becuase you need defense right away becuase the chamber itself is an invaulable building and then you need movement to make lerks and fades effective. Whats the result of this? certain upgrades go almost completely unused and it seems everyone has the same couple of upgrades.
So whats my suggestion? make them all availble all the time, and make the level of the upgrade dependent on the hive,
This way with one hive a skulk can get cloaking and silence, but only level 1.
Comments
If something works, you stick with it, regardless of what other people tell you.
You don't <b>have</b> to build defense first, hell even movement - sensory makes a <b>great</b> first chamber, regardless of what you think or hear on these forums ...
but the problem is, you'll all convinced it should be Defense>Movement>Sensory, that you won't even try it to see if I'm right, rather just insist I don't know what I'm talking about.
One thing I'd like is if you could get more than one upgrade from teh same chamber, yet still be limited to only 3 choices
..well ...maybe that's a bad idea.
You do understand the number of upgrades for one type of chamber depends on how many chambers of that type the builder builds, right?
For example, you can have full cloak at one hive, you just need Sensory to be the first chamber and have at least three built.
That's like saying "Lets build an Armoury and Arms Lab before Inf Portals; just to see how it'll work. We'll be fine as long as we don't die."
If something works, why mess with it? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
You sorta need level 3 upgrades to survive once it hits mid game.. and any good marines will have a hive locked down by then.
*gasp*
Yes, I know, it's shocking, but more than one thing could work. Try something else next time you play. If it doesn't work, who cares? If it does, then you've found a new strategy and everyone will love you. Or something. Don't be so closedminded! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorry! got off-topic.
That's like saying "Lets build an Armoury and Arms Lab before Inf Portals; just to see how it'll work. We'll be fine as long as we don't die."
If something works, why mess with it? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ummm this was a totally unrealistic senario. The only thing you can build before you have a working IP is a extra Comm chair and RTs.
Personally my favorite combo to build is S>D>M, but thats another thread.
theres a reason everyone does dms. its because it works the best.
theres a reason everyone does dms. its because it works the best.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love people like this... That's like saying there is only one use for a HMG/HA combo... it *could* be used to scare and cripple, not just for rape and pillage.. minus the raping (I hope). Fade rushes will be working less and less once marines start learning how to combat it, and you'll be needing new strategies, but you'll insist on the one youv'e seen work before. A silent fade is an ugly thing, regardless of how "well-prepared" a marine force was for your attack.
The "Tank" combo of a fade (adrenaline/carapace) or "assault" (adrenaline/regen) aren't the only ways to go.. Ever conisder going "ninja"? (silence/cloak/regen, or carapace if you wanna take more hits and can escape easily) Quiet creatures are hard to hear (duh) and don't require all the extra hit points the ones that the marines can hear will. *shrug* I've done this discussion before so there's no poin in me continuing.
btw: acid rockets still do the same amount of damage, the slash attack does the same, blink still works, as does bile bomb.. you just can't spray and pray like a HMG marine..
you have to look at whats practical. killing marines is all well and good but what you really have to do is get that turret fac and then remove the phase gate. the longer it takes the harder it is.
How useful is a Ninja Fade ambushing 3/4 HA&HMG?
in short, cloaking is useless unless the comander doent research motion tracking...and if the commander doesnt research motion tracking, the marines are going to lose anyway because the comm is a noob.
Who says you have to go to the marine base to use cloak? Find a spot, cloak and wait.
The problem is, no one has any patients, so they think cloaking is usless when they try to camp the corner of the marine spawn and get supprised when a marine comes over 4 seconds later and kills them.
Don't mind me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I just hate people talking about using Cloaking to hide somewhere and pick people off who walk by. I mean, doing that doesn't kill any of THEIR stuff, and if you die; it's just a waste.
Defense for Regen, Sensory for Cloaking. Blink into the middle of a turret farm, and <b>HOLD STILL</b> until the cloak kicks in again. Trust Regen and your armor, let it heal you. The turrets will shut up after a moment, heal back up to full, and be patient.
*sawblade*PAIN*heal*sawblade*PAIN*heal*
You don't need much energy when all you're doing is a single blink, or a couple slashes at a time. And it still takes down turret farms, sometimes faster than the acid-rockets will.
Silver Fox is right though, nobody will try anything new, because we all want to play Science and Industry, or CounterStrike, or FireArms, or Day of Defeat. Think like Metal Gear Solid, or Ninja Assault, not Quake 3 Arena folks. Try silence and celerity some time on a fade. Don't wait for the enemies, keep 'looping around' behind where you hear the enemies coming from, use the parasites your skulks (hopefully) lay for you!
If you hear them coming down the Quad Lift, blink up through the secondary elevator, drop down on them while they're stuck in a hole, and carve the first few apart, then rush off past the (hopefully) built up resource nozzle and helpful Gorge.
No one wants to think for themselves. I've never seen so many people close their ears and their eyes and start screaming at the top of their lungs "I can't hear you! I can't hear you!"
These are the people who just come on and casually game though, if you want real improvision, you have to join a clan server and get the ball rolling with a slightly older crowd (yes, maturity plays a HUGE factor in gaming skill). You'd be amazed not only at the tactics that are used, but also some of the discussions that're held regarding tactics <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the point is not that people dont want to try anything new...it's that we've tried those things...AND THEY DONT WORK!
and, uhhh....wolf? you do realize that while what you suggest is possible, it is really no more effective for killing turret farms than acid rocket....and it is much less useful against marines than adrenaline? and as for the blinkfade as opposed toa rtyfade...well, ill take celerity over cloaking for that too, any day of the week
and to you, fox...i do realize that the nice little blue circles wont show up on an unmoving alien...what WILL really screw you, though, is when the nice little commander grows a brain and starts doing scanner sweeps for his squads. oops, your cloak just became useless in the ONLY situation where it could have been helpful anyway!
in short...if you want diverse, strong attack squads that can actually take out marines, put sensory last. if you want a single skill of questionable usefulness in the first place that can be disabled completely and totally by any commander with half a brain, go sensory first or second by all means.
you see, friends, the problem isnt that we are closeminded, but that we have actually tried it, and saw that it JUST. IS. NOT. AS. GOOD. trust me, im open to new tactics...ive even come up with many of them. my saying that sensory sucks isnt a matter of my being closeminded, its just the plain and simple fact that is is not as effective under any circumstances. it doesnt MATTER that you CAN make it work, its just that its harder to make it work, and even then it doesnwork as well! a team that is good enough to make good use of cloaking will still do even better with adrenaline. end of story, period, kthxdrivethru.
Me I don’t care what order it’s put in still do the same damage
and most people want to win the easiest way possible.
take seiges; sure you could get your whole team to charge at 10 or so offence towers and keep attacking till theyre gone, or you could just put up 1 or 2 seiges and sit back. its simple, effective, and easy.
How useful is a Ninja Fade ambushing 3/4 HA&HMG?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How useful is a "Tank" or "Assult" fade against 3/4 HA/HMG marines? Not very... WOW You can shoot off 1 or 2 more acid rockets before you get splatted against the wall.
And since you used the word "ambush", I am assuming you know what the word means... but it seems to me like you don't. Ambushing is when you take the enemy by complete surprise. So silence will be used to move to a spot silently and cloaking (remember with silence, your cloaking does not make sounds) to become invisible. Then when a group of marines walks by, you can walk up behind them and then slash away killing 1 maybe 2 before 1) you get killed or 2) run away.
So, to sum it up, its D->M->S for the newbs/pubs. And almost anyother combo for the clans/PTs.
the point is not that people dont want to try anything new...it's that we've tried those things...AND THEY DONT WORK!
and, uhhh....wolf? you do realize that while what you suggest is possible, it is really no more effective for killing turret farms than acid rocket....and it is much less useful against marines than adrenaline? and as for the blinkfade as opposed toa rtyfade...well, ill take celerity over cloaking for that too, any day of the week
and to you, fox...i do realize that the nice little blue circles wont show up on an unmoving alien...what WILL really screw you, though, is when the nice little commander grows a brain and starts doing scanner sweeps for his squads. oops, your cloak just became useless in the ONLY situation where it could have been helpful anyway!
in short...if you want diverse, strong attack squads that can actually take out marines, put sensory last. if you want a single skill of questionable usefulness in the first place that can be disabled completely and totally by any commander with half a brain, go sensory first or second by all means.
you see, friends, the problem isnt that we are closeminded, but that we have actually tried it, and saw that it JUST. IS. NOT. AS. GOOD. trust me, im open to new tactics...ive even come up with many of them. my saying that sensory sucks isnt a matter of my being closeminded, its just the plain and simple fact that is is not as effective under any circumstances. it doesnt MATTER that you CAN make it work, its just that its harder to make it work, and even then it doesnwork as well! a team that is good enough to make good use of cloaking will still do even better with adrenaline. end of story, period, kthxdrivethru.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow.. and you've.. *Never* lost using the D>M>S combo?? Trying something once and saying it sucks would be the smartest thing to do if you're referring to drinking (and not Pepsi or Cola)... But as for aliens, you're not listening, and you're not really gonna try. "oh man, cloaking doesn't work" *runs around* *dies*
[edit] sorry, 15 times in your case [/edit]
and the point is to keep the marines demoralized, perhaps let them build some stuff first, then flatten them *shrug* Ever considered camping a common marine resource node while cloaked? probably not. Ever considered using silence to sneak up on a marine? Probably not.. Because D>M>S is the *only* way to go...
Sorry for the lack of creative criticism this time, I hate to see Ptesters get flamed by people who absolutely <u>know</u> better..
It be nice if other combos were more seen but for pubs that may not happen.
Also, saying "I don't use Defense first, I use Sensory!" doesn't mean you're some amazing tactician who just came up with some brilliant idea that will stun us all. It means you like to hide in a corner. With Cloak. Because you're not using Scent of Fear or Enhanced Hive Sight at one Hive, I know that.
Hiding in a corner works until...the Marines get Motion Tracking and the Comm starts doing scanner sweeps. That's about as far as it goes. I've yet to see Cloak help someone destroy buildings or actually win the game, besides sitting in the corner and harassing the odd random person who goes by.
"Oh, how about I sit Cloaked in this commonly-used Resource Point!" Well, that tactic will work once, maybe twice...then you'll die. And the resource will be taken. And what will you use to destroy the turrets (and Marines) and take it back? Cloak? The magic building destroyer?
I like to actually be able to take shots instead of hoping for ignorant Marines and Comms.
Who says you have to go to the marine base to use cloak? Find a spot, cloak and wait.
The problem is, no one has any patients, so they think cloaking is usless when they try to camp the corner of the marine spawn and get supprised when a marine comes over 4 seconds later and kills them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fine Silver fox, you can go hide in a dark hallway with your cloaking/silence fade and take out lone marines, I'll be the fade with carapace and adrenaline taking out the entire marine team over and over.
Honestly, I've heard enough of this crap about "different playstyles". Bla bla bla, I know what works. If that second gets up along with defense and movement, and the marine team isn't completely outfited with HA, It's game over, PERIOD. ONE fade can keep the entire marine team busy indefinitely, or at least as long as his alien buddies get there.