Development Blog Update - Detailed Skulk "reveal"
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Comments
As for the alternative bite attack, perhaps some sort of 'spit' attack that disorients the marines they manage to spray (slime covers their screen a little) - may be a bit too over the top though :)
The attack doesn't necessarily need to deliver damage, perhaps it could also just make the path the marines walk on slippery or something as small as that.
It proves you are committed to delivering an AAA quality game to your customers
It will also take the people who call your game a mod and shut them up :D
Sick of people saying WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR A MOD!!?!?
"No misinformed consumer - NS1 was a free mod, NS2 is an independent game and 40$ is incredibly cheap, nevermind the 20$ normal version!"
that or have it use its dagger-like limbs to do some damage/
And it seems like it will be retaining it's nimble, sneaky assassin like gameplay that I loved from NS1 :D This is most promising!
Yeah the parasiting really added another dimension of skill to the skulk... since you have to make a tradeoff for example between speed gained from bunnyhopping backwards while aiming the parasite right before you dodge behind the corner. Or to parasite 2 marines while you're chomping 1 to get that much extra benefit from your death. Also marines always get brash and pissed after getting parasited and chuckled at, run off to kill that weasly little skulk and get chomped, so that was fun too. It would be nice to have an ability like parasite that didn't necessarily provide scouting, but retained the long-distance aim skill and pissed off marines. Maybe a super low damage dot (damage over time). That would piss me off for sure.
The air game of leap in NS1 was so fun, so the short range of leap in NS2 is troubling... but since it is apparently possible to go through an entire map without touching the ground, it's difficult imagining how this works.
I liked parasite for dealing a small amount of damage to annoy marines, so if you're gonna remove the tracking ability from it, please do find another way of provocating (is that right? lol) the marines.
The game looks promising this far, but I don't think I'm alone when I think I really wanna see some more in-engine footage before I order it. I trust that you guys will be able to hand us a great sequel to NS1, but building your own engine from scratch is no easy job. :]
Thanks for the post!
<!--quoteo(post=1721041:date=Aug 6 2009, 11:12 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Aug 6 2009, 11:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721041"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really looks awesome, artistically and stylistically. Nice vents.
Yeah the parasiting really added another dimension of skill to the skulk... since you have to make a tradeoff for example between speed gained from bunnyhopping backwards while aiming the parasite right before you dodge behind the corner. Or to parasite 2 marines while you're chomping 1 to get that much extra benefit from your death. Also marines always get brash and pissed after getting parasited and chuckled at, run off to kill that weasly little skulk and get chomped, so that was fun too. It would be nice to have an ability like parasite that didn't necessarily provide scouting, but retained the long-distance aim skill and pissed off marines. Maybe a super low damage dot (damage over time). That would piss me off for sure.
The air game of leap in NS1 was so fun, so the short range of leap in NS2 is troubling... but since it is apparently possible to go through an entire map without touching the ground, it's difficult imagining how this works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreed! :]
<!--quoteo(post=1721039:date=Aug 6 2009, 11:09 PM:name=Rellek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rellek @ Aug 6 2009, 11:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not have the secondary for bite be the pounce/leap?
that or have it use its dagger-like limbs to do some damage/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Wouldn't that be the pounce ability anyway?
Referring to the secondary attack:
Like some guys above I would fancy some ranged weapon to get on the marine's nerves. Maybe a spit that only hurts a litle (10hp) but does not have any scouting function. I know, not very creative, but surely funny to play with.
Harassing marines has always been fun :)
Edit:
Something just came to my mind:
How about some kind of roundhouse-kick-attack as secondary? :D
Some attack where the skulk moves in a circle very fast and deals damage to all marines/buildings around him. You could only do it once every minute so people wouldnt turn around in circles all the time.
Just an idea... might be hard to come up with an animation for that...
I'm in love with diagonal view render image. Really like the bony front structure, consistent.
This might be a stupid question, but what happened to Xenocide? If Xeno is out then will the skulk get any new abilities during the game?
Bite alt-fire:
*I agree with some sort of spit attack being the secondary aside from damage comparable to parasites it could serve as some sort of pheromone marker which would sort work like scent of fear / parasites but only for a few seconds. Perhaps this could draw attention to the commander. I would like the skulk to maintain at least a bit of scouting capacity preferably in a way that complements the commander.
*Also a reverse leap that damages and knocks back any marine infront of you might be interesting. So if you have several marines you can leap>bite>reverse leap in like a second and maybe kill one of the marines will the reverse leap. Would look like the skulk kicks the Marine with hind legs and jumps backwards doing a fli... I actually don't like this idea anymore. But maybe it inspires someone to think up a better one.
EDIT:
*just thought... what if the spit has no scouting ability and very very like damage like 3hp. But for a few seconds after being spited on the marines will hurt themselves if they try to use the taser. I think it would be more interesting to have the secondary bite attack affect some game play element which is new NS2
Think of it as clamping down on a leg and trying to hold/drag them around. A marine could get the effect removed by looking down and shooting at the Skulk. Any damage that the Skulk takes will remove the 'snare' effect.
Now if this becomes a problem with Sentry Guns (They're always hitting the Skulk right away so the hold/snare is never in effect; or too short) then you can add a "Strength" (for lack of a better word) that will slowly reach a 'zero point' and release the Marine. Soooo the more damage that the Skulk takes the faster it will "Let go" of the Marine. Say like 2-3 bullets from a Marine or 5-6 from a Sentry; etc.
I imagine one Skulk leading 2 others and popping out of a vent; Snaring/holding/pulling a marine while his buddies leap from the shadows on the wall/ceiling and just eat him to bits. ;)
That made me very happy!
I would really have to agree with Rellek though, Leap as Alt-fire for Bite would work very well. Switching to bite after leaps wasn't too hard but... Bite main, leap alt... well that would just be more fun. I think most people use that setup currently in NS1 as well anyways.
That would free up some slots for other abilities. But before speculating on new abilities for skulks...
Would skulks still be spending the same amount of time eating structures as they do in NS1?
And
Can an ability be triggered by just pressing 3 or 4 for example. Like take the current parasite.... Rather than selecting parasite then using the mouse to fire, you could just hit the button and it fires without switching to "parasite mode."
These pictures get even betterer and betterer! :D
First and foremost, this provides a much needed incentive to keep marines operating in groups. One of the biggest problems in the early version was that there was no disincentive to marines to prevent them from going 'rambo' on their own. How do you get a 'grapple' skulk off you? YOU don't. Your TEAMMATEe that is standing beside you can quickly and easily shoot it off you. No muss, no fuss. This would be a deadly attack for people running solo, but would be a useless attack for marines in a group. If you are 'grappled' on to a marine you are vulnerable, and an easy target.
Second, it would give aliens a second form of 'group' attack. At present, a group attack as skulks basically relies on skulks rushing in and hoping that one or two survive long enough to do damage. What if a bunch of skulks instead did a 'grapple' rush? The difference here is that when you grapple on a marine's back, that marine needs to turn his back to the other marines to get them to shoot it off. What if all of the skulks hit from behind and grappled? The natural instinct is to turn TOWARDS your fellow marines, but if they all do that, then no one will have a shot at the skulks. So the chaos could give way to a new form of skulk rush.
Lastly, and most importantly, I would pay good money to see a marine run across a hallway (coming from somewhere out of line of sight) screaming "GET THEM OFF ME!!!" while seeing 3 or 4 skulks attached to his body as he flails about. :D
Let's remember here, if a skulk is close enough and in the proper position to land a grapple, then he would just as easily be able to land a bite. We're not talking a grapple from range, this is a melee attack. So if a skulk lands a grapple, the damage should be equal to what a bite would be, over 5 seconds. (arbitrary numbers for sake of discussion) All this does is deliver the bite in a different way. To a solo marine, this is a huge risk since he can't kill the skulk on him. To a group of marines it is a significantly reduced threat.
As for a counter in cases with FF on, this would depend on whether marines are being given a 'melee' swing. If they are not, then marines just have to be that much more accurate. However, I do think grapple would be a great addition.
With respect to parasite, I think it should stay in. Not to diminish the role of the alien commander, but to improve it. Heck, you could make it so that parasite doesn't benefit the alien commander at all, but instead is only visible to other nearby aliens. As a means to coordinate attacks. The goad factor is huge though. Even if it did 0 damage I would still use it for that alone. The fact that you are there can drive an undiscipined marine nuts, which wastes a lot of valuable time.
This makes me wonder how dealing with dead bodies is going to take place. I guess you may be doing it like TF2 where the models stick around as long as possible so long as you're in visible range, but for an idea involving the use of the bodies, it might be better to throw some nanites in there and have bodies disintegrate based on the total number of "bodies in the area" and a time factor (not much unlike Quake3 or the Crysis suit). I guess there's also the issue of keeping the ragdoll physics of bodies synchronized without lag... you don't see that done server-side much in other games it seems.
Switching to bite after leaps wasn't too hard but... Bite main, leap alt... well that would just be more fun. I think most people use that setup currently in NS1 as well anyways.
....
Can an ability be triggered by just pressing 3 or 4 for example. Like take the current parasite.... Rather than selecting parasite then using the mouse to fire, you could just hit the button and it fires without switching to "parasite mode."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think they already mentioned previously that aliens won't be switching between weapons but each ability will be a button press away... At least I think/hope so. Confirm someone pls.
Dont forget to put "+movement" in NS2 for the leap, blink etc... ;)
As alternative bite attack I suggest you put in a kind of low damage infectious-bite (melee range; 10-30 dmg instant) that adds a 15 sec Dot-effect on the marine which
a) slows him down to 60-75% speed - still more that half speed, because more would be annoying for the marine
b) does some damage over time, lets say 10hp every 3 sec for a total of 50 hp dmg (leaving the armor untouched; assuming marines have 100hp) - if this is too powerful you could just reduce the damage... but only 1hp/3 sec for a total of 5 hp dmg would remove the "justification" for bleeding a trail or "whining" ;)
c) while the marine is affected by that dot he whines about feeling bad etc so aliens can track him ;p - he could also leave a blood trail on the gound ... excessive whining could be annoying for the players... ehehe
With this attack a single (good) skulk could slow rines down and make them trackable if he is otherwise unable to kill them because they would take like 4-5 normal bites with armor upgrades... this increases the usefullness of the skulk in longer games and adds some more teamplay for the aliens :)
oh and as a 3rd (I guess there wont be any 3rd hive aka 4th weapon attacks?) you just have to add xeno... :D
greets
Also I disagree with TheLord giving the skulk any kind of DoT would make them far too OP. Even bad skulks can manage to get 1 or 2 bites on a marine before they die the extra 10-30 instant damage would instantly kill the marine. In my opinion it would end up playing out like martydom in CoD. You would kill a player then he would drop a nade and blow you up getting a cheap kill.
that or have it use its dagger-like limbs to do some damage/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking the same thing: just make the 'secondary attack' be the leap itself. It did a small amount of damage in NS1 and it seems like an easy way to add the control to the game rather than having to juggle the selection of bite/leap like we did in NS1. How would you implement leap otherwise other than to pair it with jump or the NS1-style 'select ability' thing?
I hope some element of parasite tracking will be in NS2. I found that it was hard to get the attention of other alien players to attack structures with text/speech and that the most effective way to get assistance in killing an RT was to parasite it. Of course, it seems we wont have lone RTs in NS2 from what I can gather so far so that may not be necessary. But it sure was a boon to be able to let other aliens know where spotted marines were. I liked the idea that a few mods implemented where parasites could be removed by 'using' the armory for a few seconds, too.
I LOVE the new skulk by the way, he looks bad-ass.
I like the idea that you've boosted his health as it was impossible to do hardly anything as a skulk in NS1 in late game. It just simply took waaaay too long to kill an armor3 marine (even without HA/JP!) especially when they can kill you with a pretty quick HMG burst. 6 bites is an incredibly long time to be standing next to the marine while he's dishing out the kind of damage an HMG can do. It'll be interesting to see how the mechanics of the game change from even just a minor run speed/health swap in skulks. Unless I'm mistaken it took roughly around 22-25 LMG lvl0 bullets to kill a no upgrades skulk (or at least it did for my aim?) Unless you had at least some aim time (ie, a short hallway), it was pretty hard to kill a skulk running circles around you (even moreso for those damn lerks! Every time one kills me I do the Khaaaaaaaaaan! scream to my monitor). It seems that NS2 will be more small room and vent oriented than NS1 was. With the new heavier HP skulks it may be a whole new game and marines may be forced to group up to (reliably) take down skulks. I applaud the improved toughness of skulks though as I think it's something that has been missing from NS1. Too easy to die, too easy to be nothing more than a kamikaze teeth-missile. (Granted my low KD ratios showed that I was definitely much more so in that respect than most players. I often have the highest death count on alien team, partially because I never bother to do lerks/fades because I'm so bad at them. Maybe I'm just bad at skulks as well even after playing 7 years? =/)
On a side note, please make sure that we don't have collision issues with all those pretty little details in the vents, nothing more frustrating that getting tripped up by pixels.
TL;DR: Love the new skulk. Leap as alt-fire? Keep parasite. No collisions on pretty vent graphics, please.
So it would be a poweful but dangerous attack for skulk (somehow like the Xenocide attack
On the abilities, I dont think khaara should have alt-fire, it's basically like an entire new ability. Why create double the work for abilities that will probably never used if they are too numerous. That reminds me, will it be possible to execute a certain ability by pressing once on a button or do you have to select it before you may fire it like in NS1?
Another idea for alt-fire: Focus bite.
In the style of CS knives, primary fire is a quick low damage and alt fire is a slower but higher damage bite. I've always found the 'focus' upgrade kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" upgrade since it really makes biting down structures a lot slower/harder.
Only wanted to say that after left 4 dead I always wished that the skulk's pounce would do the same as the hunter in L4D. It would do less damage than biting a marine down but they would be helpless unless another marine shoots the skulk off him. This would promote the marines to be in groups more often and not wander off. Also marines with heavy armor would be too heavy to be tipped over by the skulk so this wouldn't work :P
And for the ranged attack maybe it be like parasite but instead of dealing direct damage it just increases the damage they would sustain if attacked. Thus it wouldn't be as annoying as the old lerk spikes and still be just something to promote the marine to attack the skulk or vice versa while the "parasite" effect is on him.