Haha powering forward marine structures is absolute genius. Not kidding there, that would be freaking dope! I can see everyone trying to protect the electricians from getting chomped at a forward siege base so that it'll stay up long enough to take a hive.
I actually like this design choice a lot. I found the knife to be silly to destroy structures and the pistol was way too effective of an side arm (it was the rifle of NS1). I do have some questions now:
1. Are you going to keep the name 'Taser'? It's rather silly for the weapon's name to be based off a brand conductive energy weapons. 2. Is the weapon going to have limited amount of darts? Will the conductive shock primary attack drain a battery that recharges? 3. Are the transponders attached by a string? If so, do they break if the target is out of range? 4. How long do the darts stay in a target? Will they stay in structures longer? 5. How will you justify the weapon's effectiveness against buildings when there is marine vs marine?
maybe boost a team mates health / speed slightly for a period of time when they get tased? This means there is nothing to shoot the parasiting skulks with from 300ft away. that could become a problem, if the LMG doesn't fix that.
also , the elektrodes flying out.. are they on the target instantly or if it's far away do they travel? becuase that would be natural; but also very annoying for people who can't aim that well. It could also be a pulse flying out? like a sonic blast.
How bout seeing as marines can get their own weapons now via the armory, how bout getting classic pistol and knife options available from the armory too (at a later date). Or, make these classics available via unlocks from achievements ala TF2
I must say this new idea is very creative, although it sounds difficult to implement. Granted I know little about making video games but it sounds tricky.
I'm not sorry to see the old NS pistol go away, it was very easy to exploit and more useful than the primary weapon in many cases. However I am sad to see the knife go away. Amid all the futuristic weaponry and technology it was nice to see that humans still relied and something as primitive yet perfectly reliable as the knife.
I would like to see some sort of bladed melee weapon remain in the game if possible.
To elaborate, in the close-quarters combat in NS in the early stages of the game, a small, agile creature like the skulk is almost better countered with large knife or short sword than any type of rifle or even submachine gun. I know if I was going to be fighting in a small confined area with a nimble dog sized opponent I would prefer to be armed with a large knife and a reliable, large caliber pistol. For at least the early stages of the game these two weapons make the most sense from a tactical standpoint. Having a squad of men with automatic rifles shooting at a fast dog sized creature in close quarters is pretty much suicide.
Transforming Security (or Stunning) Apparatus - Model R TSA-R
Transforming Apparatus for Stunning Aliens - Model R = TASA-R Transforming Apparatus with Electrical Release - TASER
or the traditional: Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser</a>
How bout, also, a blade on the melee butt of a rifle or grenade launcher?
<!--quoteo(post=1718845:date=Jul 23 2009, 01:51 PM:name=resresres)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (resresres @ Jul 23 2009, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or, make these classics available via unlocks from achievements ala TF2
Personally I'm not fond of this idea. Achievements to unlock access to special weapons. As this requires servers to be run in a certain config to ensure no cheating happens.
IE: someone starting a private dedicated server with 2 slots, they and a mate join and with 1 on each team simply taze the skulk for 100-kills, then do the same for melee kills with whatever weapon.
Then Readyroom, swap teams rinse and repeat! Sure this COULD be mitigated by having settings to make it "authorised only" servers, but then how does one become "authorised" to allow achievements? Is it something that's easily done and ala... exploitable as such?
I'd rather make it a cost from the armory based on a fluxuating cost say the price is calculated based on death-ratio of marine / alien and amount of people on your team. <i>going on original NS1 details here</i> I mean if it's shared resources and you have 4 players with 8 res nodes for marines, you'll be clocking up the res really fast as you have less people using it up with purchases -vs- a team with 12 marines who use it up super fast... so to accomodate you would need some way of calculating the price in that regards to evaluate a "fair" price etc.
NS2 WILL be different I know, but above situational comment was based purely on NS1 mechanic as an example because it's a system that IS in place, not "proposed" as it currently is for NS2.
Unlocking the old pistol and knife defeats the whole purpose of combining the knife and pistol in the first place, which was to reduce costs by minimizing the amount of art assets needed.
<!--quoteo(post=1718814:date=Jul 22 2009, 06:51 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jul 22 2009, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i stopped reading after that, real life has nothing to do with games :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O you should of read more... i was pointing out how (besides for the rapid fire / no recoil / sniper accuracy), that the damage of the NS1 pistol was realistic in terms of real life.
DO IT! That thing is awesome. Much as I loved the knife in original NS (Mostly for being a kind of staple of HL1 Mods) I always thought it seemed kinda out of place. The charge over time idea is great, assuming it only works on structures. Wouldnt want to see an Onos get obliterated, just because it got stuck somewhere or was moving slowly with its shield up.
Could even take it a step further and allow the secondary fire to act as a welder with proper research/upgrade purchase. Eliminate one more art asset :P Maybe give the Tazer a blue charge/flare and give the upgraded/welder an orange charge or something so aliens and teammates can easily identify it.
I really like this idea, it's refreshing and the concept itself is pretty cool. Just make the 'taser' effects similar to the lightning gun in Killzone 2 and you'll have people using it because of how cool it all looks. Maybe a nice little flame effect for a kill and it should round it off nicely.
Also you could get away with doing a brutal jabbing/punching animation with this thing if you make it look a little more... reinforced. You could do that with textures though by giving it a heavy metal look or maybe making the design more like a kuckle duster type of shape, as in fitting around the hand to be able to hit with it.
<!--quoteo(post=1718853:date=Jul 23 2009, 02:27 PM:name=Parasite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parasite @ Jul 23 2009, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wouldnt want to see an Onos get obliterated, just because it got stuck somewhere or was moving slowly with its shield up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Everything needs a counter... maybe this is the "counter" to the ONOS?
Ok this is the point where this weird toy is redundant...
We are getting a flamethrower!!! That just sounds like we're gonna be cooking anything that gets in the way while we set a room on fire killing everything inside including structures...
why do we need this weird impractical toy... especially when this is the "Future" and their's no such thing as a "Taser" running on a 9V battery... instead we use teleporting-phase-gate-disrupter technology for the purpose of teleporting chunks of ###### from your enemies bodies regardless of how armored they are, with blood spraying from each cubical cut! And it can take down enemy rts and onos's equally! (it'll look like a futuristic chainsaw :P)
Anyways if it was up to me... in NS2, marines would have a motorized-chainsaw knife like from the movie hotshots part duex
And ofcourse an assortment of pistols from a magnum revolver to a 1911 to a fully ninja silenced armor piercing red-dot-scoped desert eagle that shoots in full auto (with the choice of either flamethrower bullets (For taking down enemy rts), or explosive armor piercing tracer bullets for taking down everything else).
Hmm is it to early to tell if marines are getting shafted/nerfed in NS2?
<!--quoteo(post=1718855:date=Jul 23 2009, 04:38 AM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Jul 23 2009, 04:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everything needs a counter... maybe this is the "counter" to the ONOS?
I think if a lone marine get into the position to sneak up on an Onos, Hed better be damn sure he has the firepower to take it down, not just resort to the most basic weapon in the game :P
Can we set enemies on fire if we taze them for to long... including onos?... sort of like setting them on fire with the flamethrower??? I think i'd accept the weapon if it could do that lmao.
Keep the pistol and use the taser as the knife and also add some of the other cool uses you mentioned for it. But as you said there is a reason all FPS have a secondary gun...it works in games and in makes sense in a a real war. Yeah this game isn't come out this year, that's obvious. Should have been play testing it by now for that, not asking for ideas for weapons. But take your time! Ns2 needs to be amazing so we all play it for years to come :)
PS:
A freaking lightning machete thing would be awesome if you asked me. Heck make am electric tomahawk that you could throw at a fleeing alien and then pick it up again from their body. Yeah i don't think you should go cheap on the resources and time on something as crucial as the secondary weapon. Make it right, get more money. delay the product, whatever, but get it done right.
<!--quoteo(post=1718856:date=Jul 23 2009, 04:43 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jul 23 2009, 04:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok this is the point where this weird toy is redundant...
We are getting a flamethrower!!! That just sounds like we're gonna be cooking anything that gets in the way while we set a room on fire killing everything inside including structures...
why do we need this weird impractical toy... especially when this is the "Future" and their's no such thing as a "Taser" running on a 9V battery... instead we use teleporting-phase-gate-disrupter technology for the purpose of teleporting chunks of ###### from your enemies bodies regardless of how armored they are, with blood spraying from each cubical cut! And it can take down enemy rts and onos's equally! (it'll look like a futuristic chainsaw :P)
Anyways if it was up to me... in NS2, marines would have a motorized-chainsaw knife like from the movie hotshots part duex
And ofcourse an assortment of pistols from a magnum revolver to a 1911 to a fully ninja silenced armor piercing red-dot-scoped desert eagle that shoots in full auto.
Hmm is it to early to tell if marines are getting shafted/nerfed in NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Talk about redundancy, what could possibly be the point of having an assortment of pistols? The whole point of combining 2 weapons in the first place is to minimize the amount of art they need to create. Maybe Im missing something, but I didnt catch where the Devs said this thing would run off a battery, at least not where it effects gameplay. If the tazer portion is meant to replace the knife, then it needs to be a last resort, melee weapon with an inexhaustible source of "ammo".
<!--quoteo(post=1718861:date=Jul 23 2009, 04:59 AM:name=Parasite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parasite @ Jul 23 2009, 04:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Talk about redundancy, what could possibly be the point of having an assortment of pistols? The whole point of combining 2 weapons in the first place is to minimize the amount of art they need to create. Maybe Im missing something, but I didnt catch where the Devs said this thing would run off a battery, at least not where it effects gameplay. If the tazer portion is meant to replace the knife, then it needs to be a last resort, melee weapon with an inexhaustible source of "ammo".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It says in the concept the 'battery' is not removeable during game, plus with it replacing the knife (and pistol) they would make it an inifinite ammo weapon for melee and I'm guessing a recharge phase for the prongs.
serious, the new hybridweapon is a nice idea, but a good knife and a nice pistol are cooler...
its a mega fun to kill a fade or onos with pistol. or do you know those gorgkills with a knife? i dont wanna miss that! pls insert a knife and a pistol in ns2! :>
First of all I don't know how happy Taser International will be about their trademarked name for a supposedly non-lethal weapon being used to kill things :P
<!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>Thoughts on the actual design:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I think this overcomplicates things a bit. <ul><li>Having bullets only fire after a click is complete rather than the instant the mouse button is depressed (like all other FPS games) could make it feel really strange and laggy. </li><li>The charged attack itself is a bit unintuitive I think, and could be especially frustrating for new players dying to it. Imagine you get tagged by a marine but then run around a corner and wait in ambush. You think you've escaped but suddenly you start taking an increasing amount of damage from no apparent source. </li><li>The fact that it takes marines a significant amount of time to take down multiple alien structures is a good thing. It gives the aliens a chance to respond.</li><li>In NS1 there is a tradeoff on the part of the marine when attacking a structure: you can either use you knife and become somewhat oblivious to approaching aliens because of your blocked vision and the knifing sound OR you can use your weapons to shoot the structure and become vulnerable to an attack during reload. The "tag and zap" of the taser removes both of those dangers.</li></ul>
<!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>What I'd rather see:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Similar weapon concept. I like the idea of an electrically based secondary weapon rather than a cookie cutter pistol. <u>Primary fire:</u> Essentially the same as the pistol in NS1. Shoots out projectiles that do a set amount of damage on impact. Maybe transponders that unload their entire charge instantly with a nice electric effect? :D I guess this attack could also do a weak initial hit with a short damage over time effect to differentiate it a bit. There are lots of options. <u>Secondary fire:</u> Electric arc. Similar to the right click functionality on the current concept. A melee only weapon, single target, but does an increasing amount of damage the longer it's on a target up to a suitable maximum (don't want nodes dying too fast).
That design is far simpler and solves a lot of problems: <ul><li>It's intuitive. Everyone knows how a pistol works and with the help of a visual cue on the weapon like a charge bar, it would be obvious that damage is ramping up on the melee attack. It will also be obvious where the damage is coming from.</li><li>The ramping damage on the secondary fire lets marines take out structures relatively quickly but it also means it's very hard for them to get the upper hand on aliens in melee. It was always frustrating getting knifed as a skulk. The low initial damage means aliens will always be doing far more damage in a melee fight. You could also get a satisfying sizzle going on stationary players like eggs or afk gorges :D</li><li>It preserves the tradeoff between having time to react to incoming aliens and attacking a structure that a taser would remove.</li></ul>
It makes the secondary-weak weapons look cooler then your primary weapon... I mean who is going to use some crappy rifle when they can just start running around the map with a MacGyver weapon that can do everything!!! (from tasering gorges at the start of a round, to taking down enemy rts in a flash, to acting as a forcefield, to having long range attacks with the electrodes, to barbecuing alien eggs in the hive...)
Sorry but that does sound a bit overpowered for what you consider to add to the game as a weak pointless weapon. And if it is a big fat flop because it's TOO WEAK then people will just use their guns to shoot down enemy rts like they do now and ASK FOR MORE AMMOOO!!! and think of how much artwork-modelling-time would be wasted. And i bet it'll be harder to skin and debug this 1 super weapon then it will be to add a dedicated pistol and knife to the game. I mean you don't even need to begin to brief your art guy on how a pistol works... but with this thing you gotta give em an instructional video + story boards.
I think it's safe to say this is a waste of time starting with the concept drawing to show us this:
<!--quoteo(post=1718791:date=Jul 22 2009, 05:44 PM:name=Dark Rage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Rage @ Jul 22 2009, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see a remote detonation c4 like device to take out structures. It could be an upgrade like mines and hand grenades used to be. Knifing an onos or a skulk used to be EPIC because it happened so rarely. What about a mini saw like a handheld version of a chainsaw so that it does more to structures but can still be used as a melee weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow we think so much alike on this topic that it's scary.
I to was thinking about some form of explosive det to deal with structures... think about how many times skulks run in and kill you while your busy knifing a RT for 5 minutes...
With the explosives, you just set it and get the hell out of there... boom. Skulks never get a heads up but who cares... as someone said to me... the game is supposed to be nonsymmetric... therefore if skulks start biting some marine rt, and marines respond to save the rt... it shouldn't be the same situation if marines attack a enemy rt... just set your charges and move on.
If the commander decides to drop a new rt, then that could be the advertisement to the enemy team... that marines are building something... it all works out.
Since skulks can travel the map fast, and get those rts up fast... it makes sense that marines are slow moving and therefore can't spend a lot of time to take down a enemy rt.
And later on in the game when skulks can do that suicide-bomber thing... well then they can use it to blow up marine rts.
I think the taser is lame and L4D'ish. Also, the stuns mentioned in earlier articles are also lame and L4D'ish.
L4D disables the survivor's ability to do anything. Which is lame, and I hate it. Make me dead or alive but not in-between (who wants to be in purgatory while playing a game?). ---- That 'lame' rant aside, I mostly agree w/ Greg.
My suggestion would be to: [ -Rifle left mouse: fire,,, Rifle right mouse bludgeon (bludgeon does not stun FFS, wow) (bludgeon does 2/3 damage per second of knife, 2/5 damage per second of welder) (upgradeable 'right-mouse' rifle attack to semi-auto 3 shot 'nade launcher). (option to fully replace rifle with buyable full-auto or semi-auto 6 shot 'nade launcher) (option to buy flamethrower or HMG) -Pistol left mouse (15 bullets): Full auto fire (less accurate),,, Pistol right mouse (semi-auto, capped at a reasonably accurate semi-auto speed, super accurate). -Knife, welder (welder more powerful melee): melee ] -If they don't want to spend the time knifing down the structures, at least they can buy the 3-shot GL upgrade for their rifle and shoot nades at the structures "super fast" (semi-auto, plunk..plunk..plunk). HOWEVER, it's balanced because it costs resources that the marines could have used for buying something else--and something that the marines will almost always lose eventually, sooner or later.
The normal '3' main types of weapons does well for all other FPS's. Why change it? Is it really needed? Is it going to cost you more $ in the long run, than will save you in the short run? What about all the NS1 people who are going to be missing their pistol?
I just made an account here even though I have always loved NS. I felt I wanted to comment on the knife+pistol solution.
I liked the knife in NS it was fast to pull out and fast to cut enemies. It also was something to whoop out when bored or travelling to destination. I liked how we "brought a knife to a nuke fight" and "all we need is our trigger finger" right? wrong "if you disable the enemy's finger, he is unable to squeeze the trigger" ok enough I could quote Starship Troopers more but the point is NS had a cool knife.
I also liked how unlikely it was to kill an alien with a knife, but on the off chance of succeeding to knife an alien with very low hp and getting that knife kill was very satisfying, I remember trying to get the killing blow on an onos with a knife - I did not succeed.
I read how you wrote that the monotonous activity of staring at a alien structure and knifing it might be something players didn't want. Well I for one was always very excited when destroying alien structures - it meant getting close to them and putting away your rifle/main weapon leaving you open to attacks and ( the structure) limiting your view, was very strategic.
So in conclusion I think I want to say, I will miss the knife but it's nothing too terrible perhaps the new approach is better or maybe even necessary. Either way I'm grateful you are working on the game and giving so deep thought to all aspects. I will but the colletctors edition asap:P
Thinking back on it. I find the idea that the marines using a Taser kind of silly. Why are energy weapons only a sidearm when they can be lethal? Why is something that is essentially a beefed up Taser in the future?
I like in ns1 that when you were knifing a structure you were exposed because you had to switch weapons to get a gun out. The knifing sound was also very noisy so it was hard to hear aliens creeping up on you.
I would like both of these kept in the new design as they were good features.
Do the darts from the taser act like the pyro's flare gun in tf2? If so I'm a pretty good sniper with those so I don't see why this new weapon can't be used for accurate shots to get a lerk in a vent.
Comments
1. Are you going to keep the name 'Taser'? It's rather silly for the weapon's name to be based off a brand conductive energy weapons.
2. Is the weapon going to have limited amount of darts? Will the conductive shock primary attack drain a battery that recharges?
3. Are the transponders attached by a string? If so, do they break if the target is out of range?
4. How long do the darts stay in a target? Will they stay in structures longer?
5. How will you justify the weapon's effectiveness against buildings when there is marine vs marine?
This means there is nothing to shoot the parasiting skulks with from 300ft away. that could become a problem, if the LMG doesn't fix that.
also , the elektrodes flying out.. are they on the target instantly or if it's far away do they travel? becuase that would be natural; but also very annoying for people who can't aim that well. It could also be a pulse flying out? like a sonic blast.
hmm i love thinking stuff up ^^
gj flayra keep it going!?
Or, make these classics available via unlocks from achievements ala TF2
e.g.
- Taze 100 Skulks, unlock NS1 Pistol
- Melee 250 Skulks, unlock NS1 Knife
Mixed responses from the community it seems.
Hopefully, the tasing sound effect is unique and provides instant audio recognition (like L4D's Boomer's grunts of "Booom" ).
I'm not sorry to see the old NS pistol go away, it was very easy to exploit and more useful than the primary weapon in many cases.
However I am sad to see the knife go away. Amid all the futuristic weaponry and technology it was nice to see that humans still relied and something as primitive yet perfectly reliable as the knife.
I would like to see some sort of bladed melee weapon remain in the game if possible.
To elaborate, in the close-quarters combat in NS in the early stages of the game, a small, agile creature like the skulk is almost better countered with large knife or short sword than any type of rifle or even submachine gun. I know if I was going to be fighting in a small confined area with a nimble dog sized opponent I would prefer to be armed with a large knife and a reliable, large caliber pistol. For at least the early stages of the game these two weapons make the most sense from a tactical standpoint. Having a squad of men with automatic rifles shooting at a fast dog sized creature in close quarters is pretty much suicide.
But I’m probably just over-analyzing things.
Transforming Security (or Stunning) Apparatus - Model R
TSA-R
Transforming Apparatus for Stunning Aliens - Model R = TASA-R
Transforming Apparatus with Electrical Release - TASER
or the traditional: Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser</a>
How bout, also, a blade on the melee butt of a rifle or grenade launcher?
e.g.
- Taze 100 Skulks, unlock NS1 Pistol
- Melee 250 Skulks, unlock NS1 Knife<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I'm not fond of this idea. Achievements to unlock access to special weapons. As this requires servers to be run in a certain config to ensure no cheating happens.
IE: someone starting a private dedicated server with 2 slots, they and a mate join and with 1 on each team simply taze the skulk for 100-kills, then do the same for melee kills with whatever weapon.
Then Readyroom, swap teams rinse and repeat!
Sure this COULD be mitigated by having settings to make it "authorised only" servers, but then how does one become "authorised" to allow achievements? Is it something that's easily done and ala... exploitable as such?
I'd rather make it a cost from the armory based on a fluxuating cost say the price is calculated based on death-ratio of marine / alien and amount of people on your team.
<i>going on original NS1 details here</i>
I mean if it's shared resources and you have 4 players with 8 res nodes for marines, you'll be clocking up the res really fast as you have less people using it up with purchases -vs- a team with 12 marines who use it up super fast... so to accomodate you would need some way of calculating the price in that regards to evaluate a "fair" price etc.
NS2 WILL be different I know, but above situational comment was based purely on NS1 mechanic as an example because it's a system that IS in place, not "proposed" as it currently is for NS2.
O you should of read more... i was pointing out how (besides for the rapid fire / no recoil / sniper accuracy), that the damage of the NS1 pistol was realistic in terms of real life.
Could even take it a step further and allow the secondary fire to act as a welder with proper research/upgrade purchase. Eliminate one more art asset :P Maybe give the Tazer a blue charge/flare and give the upgraded/welder an orange charge or something so aliens and teammates can easily identify it.
Also you could get away with doing a brutal jabbing/punching animation with this thing if you make it look a little more... reinforced. You could do that with textures though by giving it a heavy metal look or maybe making the design more like a kuckle duster type of shape, as in fitting around the hand to be able to hit with it.
Everything needs a counter... maybe this is the "counter" to the ONOS?
Oh Bone Shield hey?
*zap*
Fried Onos anyone?
We are getting a flamethrower!!! That just sounds like we're gonna be cooking anything that gets in the way while we set a room on fire killing everything inside including structures...
why do we need this weird impractical toy... especially when this is the "Future" and their's no such thing as a "Taser" running on a 9V battery... instead we use teleporting-phase-gate-disrupter technology for the purpose of teleporting chunks of ###### from your enemies bodies regardless of how armored they are, with blood spraying from each cubical cut! And it can take down enemy rts and onos's equally! (it'll look like a futuristic chainsaw :P)
Anyways if it was up to me... in NS2, marines would have a motorized-chainsaw knife like from the movie hotshots part duex
And ofcourse an assortment of pistols from a magnum revolver to a 1911 to a fully ninja silenced armor piercing red-dot-scoped desert eagle that shoots in full auto (with the choice of either flamethrower bullets (For taking down enemy rts), or explosive armor piercing tracer bullets for taking down everything else).
Hmm is it to early to tell if marines are getting shafted/nerfed in NS2?
Oh Bone Shield hey?
*zap*
Fried Onos anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think if a lone marine get into the position to sneak up on an Onos, Hed better be damn sure he has the firepower to take it down, not just resort to the most basic weapon in the game :P
Ahahahaha <insert evil captain murphy laugh> <insert flying / flaming lork>
PS:
A freaking lightning machete thing would be awesome if you asked me. Heck make am electric tomahawk that you could throw at a fleeing alien and then pick it up again from their body. Yeah i don't think you should go cheap on the resources and time on something as crucial as the secondary weapon. Make it right, get more money. delay the product, whatever, but get it done right.
We are getting a flamethrower!!! That just sounds like we're gonna be cooking anything that gets in the way while we set a room on fire killing everything inside including structures...
why do we need this weird impractical toy... especially when this is the "Future" and their's no such thing as a "Taser" running on a 9V battery... instead we use teleporting-phase-gate-disrupter technology for the purpose of teleporting chunks of ###### from your enemies bodies regardless of how armored they are, with blood spraying from each cubical cut! And it can take down enemy rts and onos's equally! (it'll look like a futuristic chainsaw :P)
Anyways if it was up to me... in NS2, marines would have a motorized-chainsaw knife like from the movie hotshots part duex
And ofcourse an assortment of pistols from a magnum revolver to a 1911 to a fully ninja silenced armor piercing red-dot-scoped desert eagle that shoots in full auto.
Hmm is it to early to tell if marines are getting shafted/nerfed in NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Talk about redundancy, what could possibly be the point of having an assortment of pistols? The whole point of combining 2 weapons in the first place is to minimize the amount of art they need to create. Maybe Im missing something, but I didnt catch where the Devs said this thing would run off a battery, at least not where it effects gameplay. If the tazer portion is meant to replace the knife, then it needs to be a last resort, melee weapon with an inexhaustible source of "ammo".
It says in the concept the 'battery' is not removeable during game, plus with it replacing the knife (and pistol) they would make it an inifinite ammo weapon for melee and I'm guessing a recharge phase for the prongs.
*commander has been ejected* :>
serious, the new hybridweapon is a nice idea, but a good knife and a nice pistol are cooler...
its a mega fun to kill a fade or onos with pistol.
or do you know those gorgkills with a knife?
i dont wanna miss that!
pls insert a knife and a pistol in ns2! :>
<!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>Thoughts on the actual design:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I think this overcomplicates things a bit.
<ul><li>Having bullets only fire after a click is complete rather than the instant the mouse button is depressed (like all other FPS games) could make it feel really strange and laggy. </li><li>The charged attack itself is a bit unintuitive I think, and could be especially frustrating for new players dying to it. Imagine you get tagged by a marine but then run around a corner and wait in ambush. You think you've escaped but suddenly you start taking an increasing amount of damage from no apparent source. </li><li>The fact that it takes marines a significant amount of time to take down multiple alien structures is a good thing. It gives the aliens a chance to respond.</li><li>In NS1 there is a tradeoff on the part of the marine when attacking a structure: you can either use you knife and become somewhat oblivious to approaching aliens because of your blocked vision and the knifing sound OR you can use your weapons to shoot the structure and become vulnerable to an attack during reload. The "tag and zap" of the taser removes both of those dangers.</li></ul>
<!--coloro:lightblue--><span style="color:lightblue"><!--/coloro--><b>What I'd rather see:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Similar weapon concept. I like the idea of an electrically based secondary weapon rather than a cookie cutter pistol.
<u>Primary fire:</u> Essentially the same as the pistol in NS1. Shoots out projectiles that do a set amount of damage on impact. Maybe transponders that unload their entire charge instantly with a nice electric effect? :D I guess this attack could also do a weak initial hit with a short damage over time effect to differentiate it a bit. There are lots of options.
<u>Secondary fire:</u> Electric arc. Similar to the right click functionality on the current concept. A melee only weapon, single target, but does an increasing amount of damage the longer it's on a target up to a suitable maximum (don't want nodes dying too fast).
That design is far simpler and solves a lot of problems:
<ul><li>It's intuitive. Everyone knows how a pistol works and with the help of a visual cue on the weapon like a charge bar, it would be obvious that damage is ramping up on the melee attack. It will also be obvious where the damage is coming from.</li><li>The ramping damage on the secondary fire lets marines take out structures relatively quickly but it also means it's very hard for them to get the upper hand on aliens in melee. It was always frustrating getting knifed as a skulk. The low initial damage means aliens will always be doing far more damage in a melee fight. You could also get a satisfying sizzle going on stationary players like eggs or afk gorges :D</li><li>It preserves the tradeoff between having time to react to incoming aliens and attacking a structure that a taser would remove.</li></ul>
It makes the secondary-weak weapons look cooler then your primary weapon... I mean who is going to use some crappy rifle when they can just start running around the map with a MacGyver weapon that can do everything!!! (from tasering gorges at the start of a round, to taking down enemy rts in a flash, to acting as a forcefield, to having long range attacks with the electrodes, to barbecuing alien eggs in the hive...)
Sorry but that does sound a bit overpowered for what you consider to add to the game as a weak pointless weapon. And if it is a big fat flop because it's TOO WEAK then people will just use their guns to shoot down enemy rts like they do now and ASK FOR MORE AMMOOO!!! and think of how much artwork-modelling-time would be wasted. And i bet it'll be harder to skin and debug this 1 super weapon then it will be to add a dedicated pistol and knife to the game. I mean you don't even need to begin to brief your art guy on how a pistol works... but with this thing you gotta give em an instructional video + story boards.
I think it's safe to say this is a waste of time starting with the concept drawing to show us this:
<img src="http://youredge.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/taser_533_1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
See you could of just gave us that photo!
<img src="http://www.stungunweapon.com/images/taser-parts.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
----------------------
<!--quoteo(post=1718791:date=Jul 22 2009, 05:44 PM:name=Dark Rage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Rage @ Jul 22 2009, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see a remote detonation c4 like device to take out structures. It could be an upgrade like mines and hand grenades used to be. Knifing an onos or a skulk used to be EPIC because it happened so rarely. What about a mini saw like a handheld version of a chainsaw so that it does more to structures but can still be used as a melee weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow we think so much alike on this topic that it's scary.
I to was thinking about some form of explosive det to deal with structures... think about how many times skulks run in and kill you while your busy knifing a RT for 5 minutes...
With the explosives, you just set it and get the hell out of there... boom. Skulks never get a heads up but who cares... as someone said to me... the game is supposed to be nonsymmetric... therefore if skulks start biting some marine rt, and marines respond to save the rt... it shouldn't be the same situation if marines attack a enemy rt... just set your charges and move on.
If the commander decides to drop a new rt, then that could be the advertisement to the enemy team... that marines are building something... it all works out.
Since skulks can travel the map fast, and get those rts up fast... it makes sense that marines are slow moving and therefore can't spend a lot of time to take down a enemy rt.
And later on in the game when skulks can do that suicide-bomber thing... well then they can use it to blow up marine rts.
L4D disables the survivor's ability to do anything. Which is lame, and I hate it. Make me dead or alive but not in-between (who wants to be in purgatory while playing a game?).
----
That 'lame' rant aside, I mostly agree w/ Greg.
My suggestion would be to:
[
-Rifle left mouse: fire,,, Rifle right mouse bludgeon
(bludgeon does not stun FFS, wow)
(bludgeon does 2/3 damage per second of knife, 2/5 damage per second of welder)
(upgradeable 'right-mouse' rifle attack to semi-auto 3 shot 'nade launcher).
(option to fully replace rifle with buyable full-auto or semi-auto 6 shot 'nade launcher) (option to buy flamethrower or HMG)
-Pistol left mouse (15 bullets): Full auto fire (less accurate),,, Pistol right mouse (semi-auto, capped at a reasonably accurate semi-auto speed, super accurate).
-Knife, welder (welder more powerful melee): melee
]
-If they don't want to spend the time knifing down the structures, at least they can buy the 3-shot GL upgrade for their rifle and shoot nades at the structures "super fast" (semi-auto, plunk..plunk..plunk). HOWEVER, it's balanced because it costs resources that the marines could have used for buying something else--and something that the marines will almost always lose eventually, sooner or later.
The normal '3' main types of weapons does well for all other FPS's. Why change it? Is it really needed? Is it going to cost you more $ in the long run, than will save you in the short run? What about all the NS1 people who are going to be missing their pistol?
I just made an account here even though I have always loved NS. I felt I wanted to comment on the knife+pistol solution.
I liked the knife in NS it was fast to pull out and fast to cut enemies. It also was something to whoop out when bored or travelling to destination. I liked how we "brought a knife to a nuke fight" and "all we need is our trigger finger" right? wrong "if you disable the enemy's finger, he is unable to squeeze the trigger" ok enough I could quote Starship Troopers more but the point is NS had a cool knife.
I also liked how unlikely it was to kill an alien with a knife, but on the off chance of succeeding to knife an alien with very low hp and getting that knife kill was very satisfying, I remember trying to get the killing blow on an onos with a knife - I did not succeed.
I read how you wrote that the monotonous activity of staring at a alien structure and knifing it might be something players didn't want. Well I for one was always very excited when destroying alien structures - it meant getting close to them and putting away your rifle/main weapon leaving you open to attacks and ( the structure) limiting your view, was very strategic.
So in conclusion I think I want to say, I will miss the knife but it's nothing too terrible perhaps the new approach is better or maybe even necessary.
Either way I'm grateful you are working on the game and giving so deep thought to all aspects. I will but the colletctors edition asap:P
I would like both of these kept in the new design as they were good features.
Do the darts from the taser act like the pyro's flare gun in tf2? If so I'm a pretty good sniper with those so I don't see why this new weapon can't be used for accurate shots to get a lerk in a vent.
And I'm shocked to agree with FocusedWolf for once regarding the design.