I can't believe how terrible the onos looks now...it is a gorilla now. The hind legs are not long enough and it really takes away all of the coolness of the onos. People will from now on scream "GORILLA!!!" and not Onos!!!. Please change the models back legs really they do look terrible.
<!--quoteo(post=1716089:date=Jul 7 2009, 10:32 AM:name=Lame Gorilla Onos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lame Gorilla Onos @ Jul 7 2009, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't believe how terrible the onos looks now...it is a gorilla now. The hind legs are not long enough and it really takes away all of the coolness of the onos. People will from now on scream "GORILLA!!!" and not Onos!!!. Please change the models back legs really they do look terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Onos is still Onos. I reckon it looks a lot better IMO.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/images/onos1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/com...mages/onos1.jpg</a> <- compare with current.
<!--quoteo(post=1716084:date=Jul 6 2009, 07:09 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Jul 6 2009, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did they actually SAY devour was out?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the announcement said for sure was that those three abilities are the "disrupting" abilities that the onos has. There could still be a 4th ability that *could* be devour :P
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1716089:date=Jul 7 2009, 10:32 AM:name=Lame Gorilla Onos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lame Gorilla Onos @ Jul 7 2009, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't believe how terrible the onos looks now...it is a gorilla now. The hind legs are not long enough and it really takes away all of the coolness of the onos. People will from now on scream "GORILLA!!!" and not Onos!!!. Please change the models back legs really they do look terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
people used to scream, GIANT COW - so i think a gorilla is a big step up - anyway gorillas can be very dangerous
<!--quoteo(post=1716101:date=Jul 6 2009, 08:31 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jul 6 2009, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->people used to scream, GIANT COW - so i think a gorilla is a big step up - anyway gorillas can be very dangerous<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Full on agreed. The new direction from space cow to space rhino-gorilla is friggin sweet. I definitely get the sense the old saying of "Oh noes! RUN!!!" will be screamed through players mics once again. Heck, with bone shield its going to have to take some friggin Johnny Rico moves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHljSgFE_Eo) actually even put some bullets in the thing and if that doesn't frighten a few marines, I don't know what will. Hmm, maybe the body of your fellow marine or the plastasteel plate that used to be a door flying past might do it.
I love the bone shield concept - as a strategic item it is a really neat move. I'm not convinced that 100% damage reduction is a bad move either - I just hope that feature gets worked into the overall upgrade scheme.. such as a 60/80/100% or perhaps an initial duration of 4 seconds with a fully upgraded duration of 10 seconds. Anyway, I'm anxious to see it in action and can't wait to see what other great ideas that have been had. Also the animation and model looks fantastic in action. Keep up the good work!
Reduced movement could mean reduced turning capability too. So while the onos is impervious front-on... it can't turn to follow the marine as they dart to the side to shoot at it and knock it down some.
I like that stomp no longer stuns players. Screwing with their aim is much better, as it allows marines to still try and run out of the Onos' way.
Also, for fun level, devour was pretty entertaining on both sides. But for competitive balance, I think the game should go without it. Of course, I haven't read that it's actually out yet, either. I imagine UWE is still deciding/tweaking the 4th ability.
As far as Bone Shield, I like the suggestion of a timer. The ability lasts for a certain amount of time (or slowly drains his energy bar), and attacking the Onos in this state reduces that time (or energy) quicker. So in essence, it's like breaking through a shield to get to the meat.
Furthermore, is this ability meant to replace umbra? I guess we'll find out when the Lerk gets his article.
EDIT: another suggestion for Bone Shield would be to add "weak spots" to the Onos head. His armor would take 0 damage, but a skilled and brave marine could still shoot him in the eyes or exposed brain matter.
I ONLY ASK FOR ONE FEATURE WITH REFERENCE TO THIS NEW ONOS:
if you are a marine and the onos is stomping... please don't make us get glued to the ground and prevent our trigger fingers from working, like you did in NS1 because i hate that and so does everyone else...
I don't mind if new effects like falling down are implemented etc... but i still want a way to shoot at all times if i fell down on my back or whatever.
TO SUM IT UP... NO MORE FREEZING OF THE WASD KEYS OR MOUSE MOVEMENT when getting stomped.
Because caps always make your point more important.
I'm pretty sure being knocked down = not shooting, or if you do it's going to be random.
Tell you what, hold an egg on a spoon, have someone push you down and see if you can keep the egg on the spoon <b>without</b> dropping it. If you can, film it - upload it to youtube and your request holds more value. Oh yeah, no "glue" or anything like that.
I hope that they will add the effect that you fall to the ground. And yeah the old stormp effect was a bit too much hehe. its a little like the fades (i always though they were too powerfull)
I think I'd prefer the bone shield as a toggle skill, rather than running on a timer. If it slows your movement while it's engaged it would suck if you wanted to start moving fast again...say, to catch that marine trying to run away, or to escape from a rear ambush. Have a weapon slot for gore w/o shield and one for gore w/ shield ... or even better, assign a special hotkey to toggle the ability no matter what weapon is selected. Organic creatures shouldn't have to fumble with weapon selections anyway, they should be able to use their abilities instantly (like leap in NS1)
I will be singing this while shooting new Onos <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys&NR=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys&NR=1</a>
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited July 2009
I'm wondering the same thing regarding devour. No mention of the 3rd hive ability and devour missing in the weapons lists. It's still possible. And if they replace bhop with some kind of sprint mode, then the onos will probably be able to sprint, too, thus the charge ability isn't needed, also with gore already knocking back marines. Improved health gain by devour would make it a good game-ender with 3 hives, I guess.
People, tone down some of those criticisms and have some faith.
You don't know about the other lifeforms, you don't know what will counter HA (or even if HA/jetpacks will still be in the game) ... this is a NEW game, mkay?
Oh and one other thing... you don't even know if abilities will be bound to the number of hives. In the old NS the abilities got more and more powerful, ending with some ridiculously overpowered stuff in Hive3, which was basically meant to end the game no matter what.
The new abilities seem more balanced now, and I'm guessing the onos will be able to "shop" for them, picking what he gets and when he gets it... but then again I have no idea.
Anyway, have some faith and wait till beta until you have any major worries or criticisms.
what being said in here are all greats i couldn't agree more to some people
there are somethings in my mind that i just want to ask
- can you at least remodel the legs ? i mean it looks really weird it is more like hands than foots (i like the new model but i think it could be more devastating with better foots, just a suggestion i dont mind if it doesn't change~ it is superb already)
- since the onos can open its mouth now can i throw like a grenade inside its stomach ? just wondering coz i luv something that is extraordinary hard to do
i didn't read all the pages but i think devour isn't that important more important i think it's kinda annoying why not just make onos able to eat things instead stuff like that
or just get a new ability to take off the armor and run faster ? hahahaa just some random stuffs
<!--quoteo(post=1716049:date=Jul 6 2009, 05:34 PM:name=S!K)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (S!K @ Jul 6 2009, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... I'm guessing that if they do incorporate umbra on NS2, it will have to serve the same purpose. The word umbra originated from the word "umbrella," which protects the umbra'd area from some damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm, well, no actually. "Umbra" is the latin word for shadow, from which "umbrella" is a derived term. The root does not have any implication of protection. It does seem, however, that the person who named the skill followed your line of reasoning.
Anyways, I'm very, very excited about the onos this time around. Onos in NS1 were often used as hit-and-run units, devouring a marine and running and hiding until the marine died. Not only was it most definitely not fun for marines to have to look at a digestive tract for ~10 seconds, but the whole "rescue" dynamic was almost totally worthless in non-combat games. Some of the most effective tactics were to send marines in to block the onos escaping using their body in a doorway, and the cries coming from a dead onos due to getting trapped running away from a skulk that's trying to get into the fight got old in a hurry. Due to the "needs" of this strategy for onos, there was rarely any teamwork and people would often damage the team (or at least the enjoyment of the team) by saving for onos just for the sake of devouring. I'd be more than happy to lose that skill and re-focus the onos as a team-based unit.
I'm somewhat liking the bone armor idea. One idea that I thought might be fun is using an onos to block off a small hallway from an improperly-equipped marine force. You could set up a trap, have the marines go into a hallway where they expect they can walk through, and having the onos run in and block off their way forward while having flanking skulks/lerks/whatever come from behind and force the marines to fall back chasing them down. I just want to see skills that allow for as many viable strategies as possible.
Actually if you look at the umbra ability in NS 1 it's a cloud. The lore is that a cloud of spores is created that obscures the lerk from view, thus reducing the efficiency of marine fire on the target. In game this translates into a percentage decrease of damage to units within the cloud.
I thought the lore was that it physically stopped the bullets, hence the thud thud thud of blocked bullets. <!--quoteo(post=1716192:date=Jul 7 2009, 05:31 PM:name=Deprecated)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deprecated @ Jul 7 2009, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm, well, no actually. "Umbra" is the latin word for shadow, from which "umbrella" is a derived term. The root does not have any implication of protection. It does seem, however, that the person who named the skill followed your line of reasoning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any relation to umbrage?
Skulk = Zergling, Gorge = Drone, Lerk = Mutalisk, Fade = Hydralisk, Onos = Ultralisk. The Queen and Defiler didn't get slots, so they granted their abilities to other units instead -- skulks took parasite and lerks took umbra / dark swarm. Plague is pretty much spore cloud. Queen's Spawn Broodling became Gorge's Babblers, and Queen's Web also went to Gorges.
The similiarities were much closer in version 1.04 though. The aliens have evolved since then to have a much more unique creative direction, and NS2 will only widen that gulf. So I'm not terribly worried about Blizzard suing over IP. :)
The natural counter to the onos has always been the jetpack. Devour was one way that a skilled onos had a chance of taking down a jetpacker, since getting multiple gores in was tough.
If, however, the new and improved Gore knocks jetpackers out of the sky and leaves them flopping about like wet fish for a few seconds, even a inexperienced onos would have a real chance of helping his team kill the flying human scourge.
<!--quoteo(post=1716251:date=Jul 7 2009, 05:00 PM:name=SuperRoach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperRoach @ Jul 7 2009, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The natural counter to the onos has always been the jetpack. Devour was one way that a skilled onos had a chance of taking down a jetpacker, since getting multiple gores in was tough.
If, however, the new and improved Gore knocks jetpackers out of the sky and leaves them flopping about like wet fish for a few seconds, even a inexperienced onos would have a real chance of helping his team kill the flying human scourge.
It's a trade I'd be willing to make.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... imagine that! If you hit a jp, it will go crazy and make the marine bounce no the walls for a few seconds! How awesome!
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1716274:date=Jul 8 2009, 09:34 AM:name=gustavo00)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gustavo00 @ Jul 8 2009, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well... imagine that! If you hit a jp, it will go crazy and make the marine bounce no the walls for a few seconds! How awesome!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1716003:date=Jul 6 2009, 12:09 PM:name=ZeroFate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZeroFate @ Jul 6 2009, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think we'll be alright not having a few extra players in NS2, when the only thing they came for was being able to poop out other players. Ignoring all the unrealistic aspects, artistic and aesthetic, the ability forced players to sit out of the game... and that just doesn't sit well with anyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're forced to sit out of the game every time you die. If your team doesn't have enough IPs, you may have to wait awhile! Counter-strike was the first (I believe) FPS to force dead players to sit out for minutes at a time, and it became the most popular online FPS for many years. There are some good arguments against devour, but I disagree that this one is important.
The last sentence is very good, i like how ns2 evolve but i hope its not that mainsteam sh.. Man, i hope the engine is good enough, no lags, no bad hitboxes like in half-life 2 :(
Comments
Onos is still Onos.
I reckon it looks a lot better IMO.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/images/onos1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/com...mages/onos1.jpg</a> <- compare with current.
All the announcement said for sure was that those three abilities are the "disrupting" abilities that the onos has. There could still be a 4th ability that *could* be devour :P
people used to scream, GIANT COW - so i think a gorilla is a big step up - anyway gorillas can be very dangerous
Full on agreed. The new direction from space cow to space rhino-gorilla is friggin sweet. I definitely get the sense the old saying of "Oh noes! RUN!!!" will be screamed through players mics once again. Heck, with bone shield its going to have to take some friggin Johnny Rico moves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHljSgFE_Eo) actually even put some bullets in the thing and if that doesn't frighten a few marines, I don't know what will. Hmm, maybe the body of your fellow marine or the plastasteel plate that used to be a door flying past might do it.
Also, for fun level, devour was pretty entertaining on both sides. But for competitive balance, I think the game should go without it. Of course, I haven't read that it's actually out yet, either. I imagine UWE is still deciding/tweaking the 4th ability.
As far as Bone Shield, I like the suggestion of a timer. The ability lasts for a certain amount of time (or slowly drains his energy bar), and attacking the Onos in this state reduces that time (or energy) quicker. So in essence, it's like breaking through a shield to get to the meat.
Furthermore, is this ability meant to replace umbra? I guess we'll find out when the Lerk gets his article.
EDIT: another suggestion for Bone Shield would be to add "weak spots" to the Onos head. His armor would take 0 damage, but a skilled and brave marine could still shoot him in the eyes or exposed brain matter.
if you are a marine and the onos is stomping... please don't make us get glued to the ground and prevent our trigger fingers from working, like you did in NS1 because i hate that and so does everyone else...
I don't mind if new effects like falling down are implemented etc... but i still want a way to shoot at all times if i fell down on my back or whatever.
TO SUM IT UP... NO MORE FREEZING OF THE WASD KEYS OR MOUSE MOVEMENT when getting stomped.
I'm pretty sure being knocked down = not shooting, or if you do it's going to be random.
Tell you what, hold an egg on a spoon, have someone push you down and see if you can keep the egg on the spoon <b>without</b> dropping it.
If you can, film it - upload it to youtube and your request holds more value. Oh yeah, no "glue" or anything like that.
No mention of the 3rd hive ability and devour missing in the weapons lists. It's still possible.
And if they replace bhop with some kind of sprint mode, then the onos will probably be able to sprint, too, thus the charge ability isn't needed, also with gore already knocking back marines.
Improved health gain by devour would make it a good game-ender with 3 hives, I guess.
You don't know about the other lifeforms, you don't know what will counter HA (or even if HA/jetpacks will still be in the game) ... this is a NEW game, mkay?
Oh and one other thing... you don't even know if abilities will be bound to the number of hives. In the old NS the abilities got more and more powerful, ending with some ridiculously overpowered stuff in Hive3, which was basically meant to end the game no matter what.
The new abilities seem more balanced now, and I'm guessing the onos will be able to "shop" for them, picking what he gets and when he gets it... but then again I have no idea.
Anyway, have some faith and wait till beta until you have any major worries or criticisms.
there are somethings in my mind that i just want to ask
- can you at least remodel the legs ? i mean it looks really weird it is more like hands than foots (i like the new model but i think it could be more devastating with better foots, just a suggestion i dont mind if it doesn't change~ it is superb already)
- since the onos can open its mouth now can i throw like a grenade inside its stomach ? just wondering coz i luv something that is extraordinary hard to do
i didn't read all the pages but i think devour isn't that important more important i think it's kinda annoying why not just make onos able to eat things instead stuff like that
or just get a new ability to take off the armor and run faster ? hahahaa just some random stuffs
cheers for reading
Erm, well, no actually. "Umbra" is the latin word for shadow, from which "umbrella" is a derived term. The root does not have any implication of protection. It does seem, however, that the person who named the skill followed your line of reasoning.
Anyways, I'm very, very excited about the onos this time around. Onos in NS1 were often used as hit-and-run units, devouring a marine and running and hiding until the marine died. Not only was it most definitely not fun for marines to have to look at a digestive tract for ~10 seconds, but the whole "rescue" dynamic was almost totally worthless in non-combat games. Some of the most effective tactics were to send marines in to block the onos escaping using their body in a doorway, and the cries coming from a dead onos due to getting trapped running away from a skulk that's trying to get into the fight got old in a hurry. Due to the "needs" of this strategy for onos, there was rarely any teamwork and people would often damage the team (or at least the enjoyment of the team) by saving for onos just for the sake of devouring. I'd be more than happy to lose that skill and re-focus the onos as a team-based unit.
I'm somewhat liking the bone armor idea. One idea that I thought might be fun is using an onos to block off a small hallway from an improperly-equipped marine force. You could set up a trap, have the marines go into a hallway where they expect they can walk through, and having the onos run in and block off their way forward while having flanking skulks/lerks/whatever come from behind and force the marines to fall back chasing them down. I just want to see skills that allow for as many viable strategies as possible.
<!--quoteo(post=1716192:date=Jul 7 2009, 05:31 PM:name=Deprecated)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deprecated @ Jul 7 2009, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm, well, no actually. "Umbra" is the latin word for shadow, from which "umbrella" is a derived term. The root does not have any implication of protection. It does seem, however, that the person who named the skill followed your line of reasoning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any relation to umbrage?
The similiarities were much closer in version 1.04 though. The aliens have evolved since then to have a much more unique creative direction, and NS2 will only widen that gulf. So I'm not terribly worried about Blizzard suing over IP. :)
If, however, the new and improved Gore knocks jetpackers out of the sky and leaves them flopping about like wet fish for a few seconds, even a inexperienced onos would have a real chance of helping his team kill the flying human scourge.
It's a trade I'd be willing to make.
If, however, the new and improved Gore knocks jetpackers out of the sky and leaves them flopping about like wet fish for a few seconds, even a inexperienced onos would have a real chance of helping his team kill the flying human scourge.
It's a trade I'd be willing to make.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... imagine that! If you hit a jp, it will go crazy and make the marine bounce no the walls for a few seconds! How awesome!
Now that I would pay to see! :D
You're forced to sit out of the game every time you die. If your team doesn't have enough IPs, you may have to wait awhile! Counter-strike was the first (I believe) FPS to force dead players to sit out for minutes at a time, and it became the most popular online FPS for many years. There are some good arguments against devour, but I disagree that this one is important.
Man, i hope the engine is good enough, no lags, no bad hitboxes like in half-life 2 :(