This is GREAT stuff, sounds very cool. I'm very happy about the Onos being able to knock marines around like ragdolls now. Bone shield sounds very nice, aliens benefit from cover to approach marines, and now the aliens can be creative and MAKE their own cover.
I have some questions:
1) When I saw the new onos first I thought "COOL, look at how unevenly his armor is distributed, I wonder if onos damage will be like tank damage in Company of Heroes..." That would be awesome. Is the onos more resistant to damage from the front even without bone shield on?
2) One can see chinks in the Onos' armor plates... will you be using a <i>nuanced</i> regional damage system i.e. do you have to aim where the plates don't cover (I'm not ASKING for this feature btw, just curious =) )
3) Is bone shield a toggle or a limited-duration ability with a cooldown? (hmm feel free to ignore this question tho, this is easily changed around in beta...)
Ya, looking forward to see how the onos' movement works, especially with the locational damage with the bone shield. Hopefully the onos gameplay stays intense and doesn't turn into a portable bullet shield though.
Hey guys why not make it insted of it doing damage HP wise, the shots do damage Stamina wise, so if nothing is hitting it it will have full stamina, and when it does get shot it starts pushing the stamina down to the point where it will fail... so it would give a reason for rines to shoot at it
which woudl make movement chambers and onos a very nasty combo....
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
I'm very glad you released more info on the Onos so soon. It's nice to see that you really thought through the role of the Onos. In NS1 Onos was an expensive counter towards heavies, but marines could so easily go JP and make the onos a total waste.
Removing devour is the right way to go. As fun as it was swallowing heavies, it was annoying to be totally removed for gameplay while eaten yourself.
I think devour should remain, but be a 4th ability and so it would only work on lightly armored player, not heavies. That way it actually has a weakness which makes it more fair.
Kinda sad that it looks like Devour might be gone D: Pesky heavies... >.< Still, I am looking forward to having loads of fun flinging marines all over! I have to wonder, will there be areas of maps that have bottomless pits/instant death that marines can be knocked into?
OK, I might have sounded a little conceited when I thought the look (and new frontal armoring) of the new Onos looked like my old alien concept submission. But now they've added two of the abilities that were in my alien concept as well! (ability to knockback, and the "bone shield" defensive stance) <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104464&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=104464&hl=</a>
But please don't try to water down my concern for them protecting the individuality of their Natural Selection 2 IP, I really don't want to see Unknown Worlds get knocked around by Blizzard if they get the thought of IP infringement into their heads. Slightly changing the backstory of the Kharaa should be easy enough so as to avoid being overly compared to Zerg life forms. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you need to worry aobut that: it is not not as if Starcraft completely took the idea for the Zerg, protoss, and Terran faction from the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Oh wait... they did!
Back to the topic at hand, the Onos is looking great. I do not mind the loss of gestation, seems like the Onos needs this new more defined roll. BUT! I am with a lot of people when I say there is no reason to fire at an Onos with his shield down, perhaps he should take like 90% damage?
It would be really lame if every single time everyone saw an onos with his shield down, no one would fire. That would take away from the games atmosphere pretty quickly.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1715996:date=Jul 7 2009, 04:49 AM:name=XeZo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XeZo @ Jul 7 2009, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being 100% alien player and all, I suppose I should love the shield.. But maybe they should make it so when enough shots had been fired at it would be forced away... (ofcourse it should be able to take a lot of hits like 12 GL shots or something)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well if you know how to use the GL, you'd make it bounce to the onos's sides so he gets damaged there instead :)
simply awesome blog, most exciting yet - almost makes me want to buy another copy i'm so excited LOL
I wonder what the 3rd hive ability will be (if any as there is primary and secondary to each weapon?)
I really lilke the new onos. The old onos was seriously way overpowered. His primary attack was pretty strong. It would only take 2 or 3 hits to kill a marine. The devour was fine, and I don't really know why they got rid of it. I'm sure that it would be difficult to implement a "cool" looking devour effect instead of having the marine simply disappear from the screen. This is true, but I'm sure that it could be done, some way, some how. Anyway, his third attack, stomp was overpowered, in that the marines couldn't move. They became paralyzed, and the onos pretty much could keep on doing this until he thought of something to do with it, like either stomp, devour, or stomp attack, etc. The new onos now doesn't paralyze the player, but shakes up his aim < freaking genious guys.
I just hope that there isn't going to be recoil comparable to recoil in counter-strike. I mean, how the hell would we be able to kill leaping skulks or lerks with such recoil.
I have to agree with the first reply about the new onos. His shield attack is definitely a little weird. I could image all the marines just stopping their fire when the onos activates this attack, because there would obviously be no point in shooting him if he won't take any damage. But, I guess this is only used as a defense mechanism for the onos, but I believe more importantly for other aliens that are around the onos. They could simply hide behind the onos and pop out when they get close enough.
I'm just so happy that the onos has been turned into a player that requires teamwork than a player that can solo around the map taking out any marines without any problems.
Good work!
Please!... release the fade next!
PS: Don't get rid of blink... or don't make his blink ability like the one on NS 1.04 :P... even though it was pretty tricky and cool. I'm anxious about his abilities!
Hmm... I'm guessing that if they do incorporate umbra on NS2, it will have to serve the same purpose. The word umbra originated from the word "umbrella," which protects the umbra'd area from some damage.
although devour was an overpowered move it was a very unique ability in the game. Still, I wouldnt want devour as a final ability but i think being able to grab a marine around the leg or something and dragging it away would be a nice last ability. That way the marine can still fire whilst being dragged, and it still gives the onos the ability to pick off high level marines 1 by 1.
Could just see the onos grab a marine and drag it away from the pack for the skulks to finish off
Please keep Devour in the game. It's not to hard to avoid it as Marine and the time you are "removed" from the game is very short. Especially considering the time you sometimes have to wait in such games as Counter-Strike.
But please don't try to water down my concern for them protecting the individuality of their Natural Selection 2 IP, I really don't want to see Unknown Worlds get knocked around by Blizzard if they get the thought of IP infringement into their heads. Slightly changing the backstory of the Kharaa should be easy enough so as to avoid being overly compared to Zerg life forms. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't worry, I'm not trying to do anything to your concern. I honestly don't think the IP is in much danger; NS has been around for a long time, and as far as I'm aware, the whole Kharaa-as-subverted-lifeforms thing has been the case for most of that time. Plus, the designs themselves are quite distinctive, so I don't think there's anything to worry about.
The abilities seem very playable and fun with a skill factor for both marines and aliens. I can't wait to play with them. But I sure will miss the aesthetic pleasure of watching the onos digest me. I guess the yummeh infestation will have to take its place.
The onos looks great but after watching it many times there is something bothering me with the running animation from the side. I know absolutely nothing about animation so take my criticism lightly. I think it's that the abdomen is too stationary when looking from the side, like it needs more motion either up/down, or rotation, or extension/compression, or gait shear. That would give it a more powerful running profile.
Love the video animations look cool but something strikes me as odd and that is the hips of the creature seem stationary which does not look right because the feet come forward at different times which would make the spine and hips torque a bit. I know this sounds nit picky and it really does not matter to me, however I figured you guys would like the feed back no matter how insignificant it may be.
lookin forward to playing and thanks for sharing. `Baker
Nice, can't wait to try this one out :) It'll be fun to see how gore will knock marines around, and stomp getting an extra disabling effect is also nice :)
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
I'm torn about the exclusion of devour. It was a signature feature of NS, I don't recall any other game doing it, and it was entertaining to not only eat people as an onos but to be saved as a marine. Perhaps there would need to be some major balance mechanic to make it work with the new onos- eg: onos can devour a marine but while hes digesting he cannot go into shield mode... thus he wouldn't be as useful for defending say a hive when a heavy train moves in.
In reply to your copyright concerns, for the record Blizzard "ripped off" the whole "zergy" thing from older works of fiction... it's just that Blizzard made it so famous that everybody calls it "zerginess" nowadays.
Games Workshop did it first with the Tyranids (in fact people say that Zerg are a pretty much exact ripoff of Tyranids) ... and they probably got it from some sci-fi books that came up with the idea first.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with people taking inspiration from previous works ... that's basically just how progress works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh cool, so its like a open-source freely distributed kinda thing, eh? I just always kinda thought they weren't getting flak about the similarities because Natural Selection 1 was free/non-profit.
Has the idea of a mass of bacteria/infection shape shifting into many different forms been used before? I just never thought of Kharaa as something that came from somewhere but grew in place when the bacteria/dynamic infestation achieved critical mass, kinda like how the nanites would make marine structures and equipment seemingly out of thin air.
What will counter heavy armor now?!!!!!!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Onos Gore ability stunning the HA for a few second for the skulks to rush in and chomp his arse.
Parasite/Bacteria infecting host and controlling it.
I've seen it done in various stories in different media. A fantastic trilogy series I read by a UK author a year or two back was done as such. However it was dead souls inhabiting bodies (sci-fic book). Good books too!
Comments
And guys, don't start nerfing a game which haven't even been released yet. Forum could need a break on these suggestions .
-waiting alpha
This is GREAT stuff, sounds very cool. I'm very happy about the Onos being able to knock marines around like ragdolls now.
Bone shield sounds very nice, aliens benefit from cover to approach marines, and now the aliens can be creative and MAKE their own cover.
I have some questions:
1) When I saw the new onos first I thought "COOL, look at how unevenly his armor is distributed, I wonder if onos damage will be like tank damage in Company of Heroes..."
That would be awesome. Is the onos more resistant to damage from the front even without bone shield on?
2) One can see chinks in the Onos' armor plates... will you be using a <i>nuanced</i> regional damage system i.e. do you have to aim where the plates don't cover (I'm not ASKING for this feature btw, just curious =) )
3) Is bone shield a toggle or a limited-duration ability with a cooldown? (hmm feel free to ignore this question tho, this is easily changed around in beta...)
What will counter heavy armor now?!!!!!!!!
which woudl make movement chambers and onos a very nasty combo....
Removing devour is the right way to go. As fun as it was swallowing heavies, it was annoying to be totally removed for gameplay while eaten yourself.
Pesky heavies... >.<
Still, I am looking forward to having loads of fun flinging marines all over! I have to wonder, will there be areas of maps that have bottomless pits/instant death that marines can be knocked into?
OK, I might have sounded a little conceited when I thought the look (and new frontal armoring) of the new Onos looked like my old alien concept submission. But now they've added two of the abilities that were in my alien concept as well! (ability to knockback, and the "bone shield" defensive stance)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104464&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=104464&hl=</a>
But please don't try to water down my concern for them protecting the individuality of their Natural Selection 2 IP, I really don't want to see Unknown Worlds get knocked around by Blizzard if they get the thought of IP infringement into their heads. Slightly changing the backstory of the Kharaa should be easy enough so as to avoid being overly compared to Zerg life forms. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you need to worry aobut that: it is not not as if Starcraft completely took the idea for the Zerg, protoss, and Terran faction from the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Oh wait... they did!
Back to the topic at hand, the Onos is looking great. I do not mind the loss of gestation, seems like the Onos needs this new more defined roll. BUT! I am with a lot of people when I say there is no reason to fire at an Onos with his shield down, perhaps he should take like 90% damage?
It would be really lame if every single time everyone saw an onos with his shield down, no one would fire. That would take away from the games atmosphere pretty quickly.
well if you know how to use the GL, you'd make it bounce to the onos's sides so he gets damaged there instead :)
simply awesome blog, most exciting yet - almost makes me want to buy another copy i'm so excited LOL
I wonder what the 3rd hive ability will be (if any as there is primary and secondary to each weapon?)
also i wonder what role umbra will play?
I just hope that there isn't going to be recoil comparable to recoil in counter-strike. I mean, how the hell would we be able to kill leaping skulks or lerks with such recoil.
I have to agree with the first reply about the new onos. His shield attack is definitely a little weird. I could image all the marines just stopping their fire when the onos activates this attack, because there would obviously be no point in shooting him if he won't take any damage. But, I guess this is only used as a defense mechanism for the onos, but I believe more importantly for other aliens that are around the onos. They could simply hide behind the onos and pop out when they get close enough.
I'm just so happy that the onos has been turned into a player that requires teamwork than a player that can solo around the map taking out any marines without any problems.
Good work!
Please!... release the fade next!
PS: Don't get rid of blink... or don't make his blink ability like the one on NS 1.04 :P... even though it was pretty tricky and cool. I'm anxious about his abilities!
Hmm... I'm guessing that if they do incorporate umbra on NS2, it will have to serve the same purpose. The word umbra originated from the word "umbrella," which protects the umbra'd area from some damage.
Could just see the onos grab a marine and drag it away from the pack for the skulks to finish off
I look forward to future ones
and I will take a wait and see attitude toward the missing devour.
With a decent physics system and high enough body count flying through the air...gore sounds very amusing.
I like that you are assigning roles to your alien classes.
That way when balancing gameplay you can debate whether you stripped a class of its role.
Keep the juicy info coming and keep cranking guys.
Cheers.
But please don't try to water down my concern for them protecting the individuality of their Natural Selection 2 IP, I really don't want to see Unknown Worlds get knocked around by Blizzard if they get the thought of IP infringement into their heads. Slightly changing the backstory of the Kharaa should be easy enough so as to avoid being overly compared to Zerg life forms. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't worry, I'm not trying to do anything to your concern. I honestly don't think the IP is in much danger; NS has been around for a long time, and as far as I'm aware, the whole Kharaa-as-subverted-lifeforms thing has been the case for most of that time. Plus, the designs themselves are quite distinctive, so I don't think there's anything to worry about.
At any rate, the Onos looks great.
The onos looks great but after watching it many times there is something bothering me with the running animation from the side. I know absolutely nothing about animation so take my criticism lightly. I think it's that the abdomen is too stationary when looking from the side, like it needs more motion either up/down, or rotation, or extension/compression, or gait shear. That would give it a more powerful running profile.
lookin forward to playing
and thanks for sharing.
`Baker
In reply to your copyright concerns, for the record Blizzard "ripped off" the whole "zergy" thing from older works of fiction... it's just that Blizzard made it so famous that everybody calls it "zerginess" nowadays.
Games Workshop did it first with the Tyranids (in fact people say that Zerg are a pretty much exact ripoff of Tyranids) ... and they probably got it from some sci-fi books that came up with the idea first.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with people taking inspiration from previous works ... that's basically just how progress works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh cool, so its like a open-source freely distributed kinda thing, eh? I just always kinda thought they weren't getting flak about the similarities because Natural Selection 1 was free/non-profit.
Has the idea of a mass of bacteria/infection shape shifting into many different forms been used before? I just never thought of Kharaa as something that came from somewhere but grew in place when the bacteria/dynamic infestation achieved critical mass, kinda like how the nanites would make marine structures and equipment seemingly out of thin air.
Glad to know my concern is insubstantial. :D
What will counter heavy armor now?!!!!!!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos Gore ability stunning the HA for a few second for the skulks to rush in and chomp his arse.
Parasite/Bacteria infecting host and controlling it.
I've seen it done in various stories in different media. A fantastic trilogy series I read by a UK author a year or two back was done as such. However it was dead souls inhabiting bodies (sci-fic book). Good books too!
Pretty sure it's been stated before.