Natural Selection 2 News Update - Detailed Onos "reveal"
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Comments
(Before I get carried away, let me point out I'm aware that it's silly to suggest changes to a game before a release, but I feel compelled to share this anyway.)
I also think you guys may want to revise the Bone Shield ability in time, because it basically gives the Marines a reason not to shoot the enemy. If an Onos is walking down a hallway with his shield extended, and there's no room to flank him (or simply too little to try it) then all that's left is to sit and watch (or run). I think that's going to kill a lot of atmosphere, and play too well in many strategies. In the article, you used "During this time..." which suggests Bone Shield has a limited duration, and that obviously fixes a lot of the possible exploits, but you're still stuck with Marines staring at an alien with no reason to shoot it.
As far as actually giving them a reason, there's plenty of little changes you could do to fix it. IE, make it only 90% damage mitigation, Onos moves even slower when taking fire, etc. etc.
Then again, I'll be happy just to unload on an Onos when the Alpha rolls around, regardless of it's effectiveness!
Also, a few typos:
In NS1 he lacked “purity of purpose†in NS1.
This ability lets the player stomp his legs on the ground and send out a shockwave in front of hit.
EDIT: What about 3rd hive abilities?
either way, great news, can't wait for more info on the LERK! xD
All the announced abilities sound like the Onos is going to be the force to be reckoned with it should have been in NS, although I agree that 0% damage sounds like it could be overpowered. As long as there is scope for using alternatives to circumvent the frontal armour while aiming from the front (such as grenades and flamethrowers), it should be ok. I like Chupacabra's idea of 0% damage when standing still, but even 0% when crouched could be fine (super-slow movement speed and extra over-the-top clearance for nades and JPs to exploit).
Calling from a different genre of game, GTA4 did this spectacularly in my opinion. Hitting civilians in your vehicle evoked some realistic responses - hands would slam on the hoods of approaching cars and legs would frantically try and gain balance as the vehicle moved towards them. I would absolutely love it if rag-dolling and player control could be combined as well as rockstar managed.
I can picture a player being swung away, hitting the ground, then smoothing transitioning back to an upright position and being under the players control again.
Gameplay wise, it sounds like you're shaping it to be a much more specific tool than the destroy-all behemoth he was before.
Artistically, I commented in the last thread about the animations and model. I hope that you pull off some awesome animations and that they blend smoothly with player control.
The roar looks like part of the stomp animation to me
Silly aero not reading: "During this time the Onos moves slower..."
(Before I get carried away, let me point out I'm aware that it's silly to suggest changes to a game before a release, but I feel compelled to share this anyway.)
I also think you guys may want to revise the Bone Shield ability in time, because it basically gives the Marines a reason not to shoot the enemy. If an Onos is walking down a hallway with his shield extended, and there's no room to flank him (or simply too little to try it) then all that's left is to sit and watch (or run). I think that's going to kill a lot of atmosphere, and play too well in many strategies. In the article, you used "During this time..." which suggests Bone Shield has a limited duration, and that obviously fixes a lot of the possible exploits, but you're still stuck with Marines staring at an alien with no reason to shoot it.
As far as actually giving them a reason, there's plenty of little changes you could do to fix it. IE, make it only 90% damage mitigation, Onos moves even slower when taking fire, etc. etc.
Then again, I'll be happy just to unload on an Onos when the Alpha rolls around, regardless of it's effectiveness!
Also, a few typos:
In NS1 he lacked “purity of purpose†in NS1.
This ability lets the player stomp his legs on the ground and send out a shockwave in front of hit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being 100% alien player and all, I suppose I should love the shield.. But maybe they should make it so when enough shots had been fired at it would be forced away... (ofcourse it should be able to take a lot of hits like 12 GL shots or something)
I fail. I am imaging scenarios where an onos or two will create a slow-moving siege line pushing closer to the marine entrenchment and to get the other aliens close enough to do some damage.
Basically making it so taking damage shortens the duration of the Bone Shield, yea? That's definitely another way to do it.
But to support what the article is suggesting, I think devour can be included and still be complimentary to the onos role as disrupter. It's meant to break through enemy lines right? What's more disruptive than eating the guy at the point of the phalanx?(sp).
I can understand you want to keep the game balanced, but I hate to see such a classic NS feature lost.
<!--quoteo(post=1715998:date=Jul 6 2009, 01:53 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jul 6 2009, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am imaging scenarios where an onos or two will create a slow-moving siege line pushing closer to the marine entrenchment and to get the other aliens close enough to do some damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think that's pretty fair. Ranged combat for most life-forms is limited at best, whereas marines is nearly entirely ranged. Having a meatshield is a logistically sound tactic. Though I agree it needs a counter/weakness to shake things up.
But to support what the article is suggesting, I think devour can be included and still be complimentary to the onos role as disrupter. It's meant to break through enemy lines right? What's more disruptive than eating the guy at the point of the phalanx?(sp).
I can understand you want to keep the game balanced, but I hate to see such a classic NS feature lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think we'll be alright not having a few extra players in NS2, when the only thing they came for was being able to poop out other players. Ignoring all the unrealistic aspects, artistic and aesthetic, the ability forced players to sit out of the game... and that just doesn't sit well with anyone.
One on hand I agree, on the other hand it still feels like Terminator 2 without the liquid metal guy
Agreed. Not really sure where all this love for the ability is coming from, I couldn't stand it, not the least of which was because I wasn't able to pull the spoon on a grenade or something before going in to act as a suicide bomber on the marine side. :P
I really like the direction being taken with the Onos in the description, the whole thing just seems to say to me form following function, which should make for some very cool game play.
One thing that stood out to me however was this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>
The infestation is actually a bacteria that has taken control of various animal species on other planets and has warped their bodies and controls them as a parasite might, and the tentacles you see on the Onos emanate from this bacteria and are another unifying visual element for all the alien player classes.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please think about removing the "taken control of various animal species on other planets..." part, it sounds way too much like the Zerg from Starcraft and gives rise to the thought of "Why haven't the Kharaa taken control of humans and warped their bodies yet? Where are the former marine Kharaa zombies? Where are the Cardigan Ghosts of this setting?".
Rather, I would suggest that the reason that it is a unifying visual element for the alien player classes is because the complex bacteria is what they are made up of, that the infestation is actually a shape shifter, adapting itself into life forms to accomplish specific tasks aka Kharaa don't necissarily create tools, they are the tool - where as humans are tool creators aka armor, weapons, etc. It also represents the need for gestation, which from the tid bits about glowies that you have shared is still a part of the process.
I hope it is understood I only bring this up to help Unknown World's set Natural Selection apart from the IP of Starcraft, not to cry "Rip off!" or anything.
In a 6vs6 game, 3 onos can eat 3 marines which results in 3 marines left to kill 3 onos. Its flawed, period, and a good decision to remove it.
The new abilities are actually a lot more effective against loads of enemies while not breaking the actual gameplay - NS2 is definately going the right way.
BIG UP :)
Nanites.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->• Two Unique Sides – Whether you play as one of the elite marine Frontiersmen or the vicious alien Kharaa, you must use unique strategies and your abilities to win. Marines form persistent squads to find and destroy alien hives. Aliens can choose a wall-running Skulk, pudgy Gorge, flying Lerk, murderous Fade or gigantic Onos that can <b>devour enemies whole</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Typo or are we missing something?
:D Hehe, of course.
But please don't try to water down my concern for them protecting the individuality of their Natural Selection 2 IP, I really don't want to see Unknown Worlds get knocked around by Blizzard if they get the thought of IP infringement into their heads. Slightly changing the backstory of the Kharaa should be easy enough so as to avoid being overly compared to Zerg life forms. ;)
Oh, and I love the idea that the infestation is the real enemy, and the creatures are just the tools to travel to new places!
In reply to your copyright concerns, for the record Blizzard "ripped off" the whole "zergy" thing from older works of fiction... it's just that Blizzard made it so famous that everybody calls it "zerginess" nowadays.
Games Workshop did it first with the Tyranids (in fact people say that Zerg are a pretty much exact ripoff of Tyranids) ... and they probably got it from some sci-fi books that came up with the idea first.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with people taking inspiration from previous works ... that's basically just how progress works.
There's such a disparity between this and the IGN version it really makes me go WTF. This version just screams awesomeness while the other one was almost embarrassing. While I don't normally advocate burning bridges, IGN is clearly not doing you guys justice.
And I wouldn't worry too much about devour and the "missing" 4th ability. Think about it a sec. Devour belongs as a 4th ability because it's designed to fight the marines highest level of tech. Now that both T3 techs will be fighting each other more often it makes sense to balance it at that level.