'Don't call Machine Pistols "SMG's" in NS2.' SMG is an incorrect term - it fires pistol ammunition, typically at very low velocity, with little stopping power. An automatic rifle is far more 'sub-machine gun' than what people refer to as an SMG - high velocity, rifled barrel, high penetration.
Charlie just wanted to clearly identify the difference between the light and heavy automatic infantry weapons. Even as a former infantryman, I really don't give a damn what they are called. It's a sci-fi game, not COD.
<!--quoteo(post=1712696:date=Jun 18 2009, 02:18 AM:name=tildy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tildy @ Jun 18 2009, 02:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Lasers_as_weapons" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Lasers_as_weapons</a> What many people imagine to be realistic in 2009 will change with time; imagined impossibilities become possibilities as time passes and discoveries are made.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Check this thread, well, second page onward: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=106567" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=106567</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1712741:date=Jun 18 2009, 01:04 AM:name=flying_moose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flying_moose @ Jun 18 2009, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL, pretty soon we're going to be using this as an excuse for everything.
User 1: "NS2 crashes when I fire any of the weapons, any idea whats going on?" User 2: "Nanites."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see you're new around here so I will let you in on a secret tip. Nanites has been an excuse to get people to stop arguing semantics for years.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1712723:date=Jun 17 2009, 05:48 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 17 2009, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure the 1.04 manual says they're just normal bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> half correct I think. IIRC the manual did state that they were bullets, but that nanites (either in the bullets or in the marine armor) made the bullets instantly disintegrate before hitting a marine. Thus no FF. also one of my favorite "Nanites" explanations :P
<!--quoteo(post=1712762:date=Jun 18 2009, 12:58 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 18 2009, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712762"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can see you're new around here so I will let you in on a secret tip. Nanites has been an excuse to get people to stop arguing semantics for years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The above is one of the official reasons why nanites is the answer to all.
The other (that I remember) is that the resource material is nanite sludge that can be tapped by either team, either to turn it into marine items, or to be digested by the hive and turned into biological stuff for the aliens.
What makes you think the lmg in NS1 was a sub machine gun? I don't recall them ever saying it fired a pistol cartridge, if anything it would make more sense that it be called an assault rifle.
Edit: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->half correct I think. IIRC the manual did state that they were bullets, but that nanites (either in the bullets or in the marine armor) made the bullets instantly disintegrate before hitting a marine. Thus no FF. also one of my favorite "Nanites" explanations :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What happened to the nanites in tournament mode?!? :P
<!--quoteo(post=1712694:date=Jun 17 2009, 01:54 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 17 2009, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That established culture is about to be replaced by a new established culture that has never ever played NS1. <b>A good part of the NS2 player base is going to be NS1 players and they are going to take the games culture with them</b>
At the very least we should add another weapon to the game to fill the smg role so as to somehow express the differences between a smg and lmg in the ns2 universe which are very striking in reallife. Smg in reallife... a small gun... essentially a long barreled pistol which fires pistol bullets. More powerful then a pistol... less powerful then everything else. (in ns1 the pistol was more powerful then the lmg and more accurate then the lmg...) <b>If the lmg was a smg, and I'm not saying that it is; accuracy and stopping power has nothing to do with which class the weapon is in. There are many 9mm SMGs and then there are many .45 and .50cal pistols, which do you think has more stopping power per shot? Plus the NS1 lmg isn't a smg so your argument is irrelevant. </b>
Create a lmg that has 250 rounds of ammo, belt fed. Create a HMG that is the same as the lmg with only 100 rounds of more deadly ammo. <b>I don't think we need two large machine guns in NS2</b>
Their and if people want to continue calling smgs as lmgs then they can just edit the lua files for the interface... crisis averted! <b>Or you could edit yours</b> Now we dont need to be locked down with the assumption that we are all worthless until we get hmgs... we start with weapons that are capable of killing fades in 1 on 1... that is the path to a game that new players can enjoy just as much as experienced players. <b>It sounds to me like you never played NS1 for any length of time or understand how the game is intended to be balanced</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1712696:date=Jun 17 2009, 02:18 PM:name=tildy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tildy @ Jun 17 2009, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Lasers_as_weapons" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Lasers_as_weapons</a> What many people imagine to be realistic in 2009 will change with time; imagined impossibilities become possibilities as time passes and discoveries are made. <b>That is very true but I believe the game is intended to be played by people in 2009 and not 2029 so that is who the game should appeal to.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1712732:date=Jun 17 2009, 06:41 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Jun 17 2009, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We really don't need to round up all discrepancies in the game, I mean why has the weaponry bothered you, but not these:
-Commanders don't lead small squads. (I think Sergeants do?) <b>The TSA isn't general infantry, they are the guys that slow things down at the airport... err I mean a highly specialized outfit separate from the infantry, more like special ops and it is pretty normal for a field officer to lead a spec ops team. (field officer = Maj., Lt. Col and Col.) </b> -Marines don't have a commander rank. <b>The US Marines don't, but this the the future international something something. Also there is a difference between grade and position, bases have commanders and ships have captains but the grade these people have may not share the name.</b> -LMG's, HMG's, Shotguns, and GL's use the same ammo. (nanites, I know.) <b>Are you talking about the ammo bags the commander drops?</b> -Do all marines have training with all types of weaponry? I doubt that a welder-using guy (Sapper?) would be proficient with an HMG. <b>Okay, we are talking about five weapons here and all being used at close range, it is no stretch for an infantry soldier to be able to handle that many weapons, and we are talking about a highly trained special unit here</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yep, the only thing you really need to learn is how to reload the dumb gun Sure you need to learn how to clean it but that just takes practice, and anyone can learn multiple weapons.
Inavertantly you are also saying that Marines int eh future are dumber than they are now.. (may be true but who knows)
, BTW if all posable I do want a Mini type weapon in the game, just spray away, no need to reaload anything unless you completely run outa bullets.
<!--quoteo(post=1712964:date=Jun 19 2009, 11:59 AM:name=DeadmanDieing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DeadmanDieing @ Jun 19 2009, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Inadvertently you are also saying that Marines in the future are dumber than they are now.. (may be true but who knows)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ever seen Idiocracy?
I don't normally reply to this kind of thing, but I am really really bored right now.
The NS1 world featured two machine guns, one larger than the other. Naming them HMG and LMG makes perfect sense. The <b>only</b> reason re-evaluate this naming is if NS2 should feature more than two machine guns. It won't.
If you are so caught up in 'the proper army way to do things' that this simple naming scheme bothers you, I suggest you go play America's Army, a walking commercial by the looks of it. It creeps out my propaganda-sense, but you might like it.
Some admin had the good sense to nuke the 'AA3 IS OUT NOW!!!!' thread. I would make a further suggestion: Could someone move this to I&S, as this is (in my opinion) clearly a suggestion. Could someone please lock this thread, as it is by now completely unrelated to NS(2).
<!--quoteo(post=1712831:date=Jun 18 2009, 09:32 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Jun 18 2009, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What makes you think the lmg in NS1 was a sub machine gun? I don't recall them ever saying it fired a pistol cartridge, if anything it would make more sense that it be called an assault rifle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No... the reason it's a smg are these:
1. it's as weak as a SMG is in real life... it's worthless on anything bigger then a gorge or lerk... that doesn't sound like a rifle. A present day M14 could drop an onos in 1-2 shots to the face, and definitely a fade in 1 shot. Turn it into a wet bloody twisted towel in a millisecond.
3. Yes it's clip fed... the tendency to call a weapon a machine gun pretty much started and ended in world war 2. (i'm sure their are exceptions but i can't think of any lol)
Can we please leave WWII to world war 2 videogames... pls... it's been beated to death that everyone hates world war 2 now! It's very obvious that the British army and it's weapons played more then a subtle role in this game... NS is literally world war 2 + British soldiers + Aliens and that makes the Aliens Germans...the movie trailer for Dead Snow comes to mind. zzzzzzz Let's make the Aliens iranian north korean hybrids this time around xD
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1713058:date=Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No... the reason it's a smg are these:
1. it's as weak as a SMG is in real life... it's worthless on anything bigger then a gorge or lerk... that doesn't sound like a rifle. A present day M14 could drop an onos in 1-2 shots to the face, and definitely a fade in 1 shot. Turn it into a wet bloody twisted towel in a millisecond.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL. Thanks for your expert opinion on how effective modern day weapons would be against a fictional alien race in a fictional far-future time period. <!--quoteo(post=1713058:date=Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Look Familliar ?? ==>><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice source image. The only similarity is the side clip though. <!--quoteo(post=1713058:date=Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Yes it's clip fed... the tendency to call a weapon a machine gun pretty much started and ended in world war 2. (i'm sure their are exceptions but i can't think of any lol)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again. Old words come back all the time. Really this is the least of my concerns with NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1713059:date=Jun 19 2009, 03:34 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Jun 19 2009, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice source image. The only similarity is the side clip though.
Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again. Old words come back all the time. Really this is the least of my concerns with NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At what point am i saying that magazines will be phased out? or am i missing something... OOO your talking about putting the magazine jutting out the left of the gun... ya their might be a reason that you don't find any modern guns with that style... that tendency also seemed to end in WWII. It could be that it's very unergonomic and VERY HARD FOR LEFT HANDED SHOOTERS. Or do you want to say that everyone is right handed in the future... ok we'll assume the people maker IP is cloning the same marine... that all marines are totally a clone army and their all right handed (but why is it that some marines like welding and some like shotgun and some camp in base and some like to com only... seems to be a flaw in the cloning of the marines right??).. so it's possible their not all right handed. Therefore... THE GUN WONT HAVE THE BLOODY MAGAZINE STICKING OUT THE LEFT SIDE OF THE GUN... THEY WILL BE 100% ERGONOMIC. that means either the magazine is in line with the gun like the p90 or the gun in doom3... or the magazine is under the gun... or their is no replacable magazine... shotgun... or it runs off of a battery... theirfore no bullets and no magazine as a result... just a backpack battery or something else... not necessarily a structure in the shape of a long candy bar sticking out the gun in the perfect place to block the shooters view of his surroundings.
It's just seems that the devs weren't using, as their sole form of guidance on the topic, "Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again"... i'm 100% certain they did it after the wwII gun i mentioned. Or they didn't put any thought into it at all which seems likely.
You do know that there's no side-clip on the <b>lmg</b> in NS2. That wasn't a question. I'm assuming you do. The question implied is, knowing this, why do you argue about it?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm 100% certain they did it after the wwII gun i mentioned. Or they didn't put any thought into it at all which seems likely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you never heard the phrase, "only fools are certain"? Hint: It applies here.
Also you must realise the original game was made over seven(?) years ago. These guys are >seven years older now. Factoring in "Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again" probably had nothing to do with it. They were just younger. Light Machine Gun sounded cool, so they used it. It described the gun fairly well in their estimation, and the name didn't hurt anyone, <b>until you</b>.
The fact of the matter is, you're just arguing about semantics, names that are completely arbitrary. Someone else might argue why you aren't using a non-english phrasing (it's the future right, what makes people think that English will continue to be the primary language in use? or in another argument, why is the terminology in english and not an asian or european language?). But those'd be just as weak as arguments. Meanings of terms are arbitrary and based on context - the far future is a pretty extreme context. Do you know what a 'thong' is? An Australian would disagree. Similarly, what you refer to as a machine gun in a modern context, a person in a future context may disagree.
In conclusion, <b>it doesn't matter</b>. You're not convincing anyone.
I thought the biggest problem with left-handed weaponry wasn't exactly the clip insertion, but the hot-lead-in-face ejection problem. And that's not mentioning for example the security mechanisms, firing mode selection, magazine release, and whatever other non-symmetrical things found on a weapon.
Then again, I'm sure these don't appear quite as obvious in realism shooters.
Contacting one of the developers via e-mail would be the obvious course of action, instead of asking for a continued flame war on the forums. If you don't want the game anymore for whatever reason, telling us in a thread that has pretty much been a troll sandwich from the get-go probably isn't a great idea. Please think about this the next time you wish to mention something along the lines of "This game, that hasn't been released yet and which doesn't have a lot of specific information released, isn't as realistic as I was hoping. I want a refund so I can play game X, which is sure to be more realistic."
<!--quoteo(post=1713080:date=Jun 20 2009, 03:43 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jun 20 2009, 03:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone else might argue why you aren't using a non-english phrasing (it's the future right, what makes people think that English will continue to be the primary language in use? or in another argument, why is the terminology in <b>english</b> and <b>not</b> an asian or <b>european</b> language?).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1713291:date=Jun 21 2009, 11:16 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jun 21 2009, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the future, guns are much smaller and more compact. The LMGs and HMGs are nanite-enhanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you hit the nail on the head where everyone else failed.
But their remains a problem. Why use the terminology of "HMG" or "LMG" at all!! For one thing it makes it harder for people to add in other guns to the game that are sort of like lmgs and hmgs...
If it is the future, then it doesn't make sense in the least to use any naming style from present day. I'd be happy if they just gave the guns model number designations like m12 m13 m14 instead of "HMG" "LMG" "PISTOL" "SHOTGUN" "MINE" "WELDER".
That style of naming just makes the game look like arcade ######. Why not just call them "BIG GUN" "LITTLE GUN"... it fits right in.
The use of "HMG" "LMG" is like giving a class-of-weapons designation to one gun. Because obviously their are many types of lmgs, hmgs, smgs, shotguns, pistols in use by the marines in the future (and any mod addon to the game that someone makes).
<!--quoteo(post=1713347:date=Jun 22 2009, 12:23 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 22 2009, 12:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you hit the nail on the head where everyone else failed.
But their remains a problem. Why use the terminology of "HMG" or "LMG" at all!! For one thing it makes it harder for people to add in other guns to the game that are sort of like lmgs and hmgs...
If it is the future, then it doesn't make sense in the least to use any naming style from present day. I'd be happy if they just gave the guns model number designations like m12 m13 m14 instead of "HMG" "LMG" "PISTOL" "SHOTGUN" "MINE" "WELDER".
That style of naming just makes the game look like arcade ######. Why not just call them "BIG GUN" "LITTLE GUN"... it fits right in.
The use of "HMG" "LMG" is like giving a class-of-weapons designation to one gun. Because obviously their are many types of lmgs, hmgs, smgs, shotguns, pistols in use by the marines in the future (and any mod addon to the game that someone makes).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'comm, drop m13 plz' '.. which one is that?' 'the shotgun, DUH' 'right'
They use designations like shotgun, grenade launcher, welder, even hmg/smg not only because its just plain easier, but because <i>thats what they are</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1713350:date=Jun 21 2009, 10:53 PM:name=Trojan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trojan @ Jun 21 2009, 10:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->'comm, drop m13 plz' '.. which one is that?' 'the shotgun, DUH' 'right'
They use designations like shotgun, grenade launcher, welder, even hmg/smg not only because its just plain easier, but because <i>thats what they are</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that's all well and good if theirs only 1 type of each weapon... but that is ignoring the possibility for a server to run a mod that includes other weapons.
What if a server has a mod that includes a USAS type shotgun <a href="http://www.livevideo.com/video/928D0B5FDCCA4DFB835FA56DF39457A3/usas-12-fully-automatic-12-gau.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.livevideo.com/video/928D0B5FDCC...tic-12-gau.aspx</a>
Now you ask the com for a shottie... 50% chance you wont get what you want, if he gives you a gun at all.
Comments
LOL, pretty soon we're going to be using this as an excuse for everything.
User 1: "NS2 crashes when I fire any of the weapons, any idea whats going on?"
User 2: "Nanites."
'Don't call Machine Pistols "SMG's" in NS2.' SMG is an incorrect term - it fires pistol ammunition, typically at very low velocity, with little stopping power. An automatic rifle is far more 'sub-machine gun' than what people refer to as an SMG - high velocity, rifled barrel, high penetration.
Charlie just wanted to clearly identify the difference between the light and heavy automatic infantry weapons. Even as a former infantryman, I really don't give a damn what they are called. It's a sci-fi game, not COD.
What many people imagine to be realistic in 2009 will change with time; imagined impossibilities become possibilities as time passes and discoveries are made.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check this thread, well, second page onward: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=106567" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=106567</a>
User 1: "NS2 crashes when I fire any of the weapons, any idea whats going on?"
User 2: "Nanites."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see you're new around here so I will let you in on a secret tip. Nanites has been an excuse to get people to stop arguing semantics for years.
half correct I think. IIRC the manual did state that they were bullets, but that nanites (either in the bullets or in the marine armor) made the bullets instantly disintegrate before hitting a marine. Thus no FF. also one of my favorite "Nanites" explanations :P
<!--quoteo(post=1712762:date=Jun 18 2009, 12:58 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 18 2009, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712762"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can see you're new around here so I will let you in on a secret tip. Nanites has been an excuse to get people to stop arguing semantics for years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The above is one of the official reasons why nanites is the answer to all.
The other (that I remember) is that the resource material is nanite sludge that can be tapped by either team, either to turn it into marine items, or to be digested by the hive and turned into biological stuff for the aliens.
Edit:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->half correct I think. IIRC the manual did state that they were bullets, but that nanites (either in the bullets or in the marine armor) made the bullets instantly disintegrate before hitting a marine. Thus no FF. also one of my favorite "Nanites" explanations :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happened to the nanites in tournament mode?!? :P
Bacteria.
<b>A good part of the NS2 player base is going to be NS1 players and they are going to take the games culture with them</b>
At the very least we should add another weapon to the game to fill the smg role so as to somehow express the differences between a smg and lmg in the ns2 universe which are very striking in reallife. Smg in reallife... a small gun... essentially a long barreled pistol which fires pistol bullets. More powerful then a pistol... less powerful then everything else. (in ns1 the pistol was more powerful then the lmg and more accurate then the lmg...)
<b>If the lmg was a smg, and I'm not saying that it is; accuracy and stopping power has nothing to do with which class the weapon is in. There are many 9mm SMGs and then there are many .45 and .50cal pistols, which do you think has more stopping power per shot? Plus the NS1 lmg isn't a smg so your argument is irrelevant. </b>
Create a lmg that has 250 rounds of ammo, belt fed. Create a HMG that is the same as the lmg with only 100 rounds of more deadly ammo.
<b>I don't think we need two large machine guns in NS2</b>
Their and if people want to continue calling smgs as lmgs then they can just edit the lua files for the interface... crisis averted!
<b>Or you could edit yours</b>
Now we dont need to be locked down with the assumption that we are all worthless until we get hmgs... we start with weapons that are capable of killing fades in 1 on 1... that is the path to a game that new players can enjoy just as much as experienced players.
<b>It sounds to me like you never played NS1 for any length of time or understand how the game is intended to be balanced</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1712696:date=Jun 17 2009, 02:18 PM:name=tildy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tildy @ Jun 17 2009, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Lasers_as_weapons" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Lasers_as_weapons</a>
What many people imagine to be realistic in 2009 will change with time; imagined impossibilities become possibilities as time passes and discoveries are made.
<b>That is very true but I believe the game is intended to be played by people in 2009 and not 2029 so that is who the game should appeal to.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1712732:date=Jun 17 2009, 06:41 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Jun 17 2009, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We really don't need to round up all discrepancies in the game, I mean why has the weaponry bothered you, but not these:
-Commanders don't lead small squads. (I think Sergeants do?)
<b>The TSA isn't general infantry, they are the guys that slow things down at the airport... err I mean a highly specialized outfit separate from the infantry, more like special ops and it is pretty normal for a field officer to lead a spec ops team. (field officer = Maj., Lt. Col and Col.) </b>
-Marines don't have a commander rank.
<b>The US Marines don't, but this the the future international something something. Also there is a difference between grade and position, bases have commanders and ships have captains but the grade these people have may not share the name.</b>
-LMG's, HMG's, Shotguns, and GL's use the same ammo. (nanites, I know.)
<b>Are you talking about the ammo bags the commander drops?</b>
-Do all marines have training with all types of weaponry? I doubt that a welder-using guy (Sapper?) would be proficient with an HMG.
<b>Okay, we are talking about five weapons here and all being used at close range, it is no stretch for an infantry soldier to be able to handle that many weapons, and we are talking about a highly trained special unit here</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure you need to learn how to clean it but that just takes practice, and anyone can learn multiple weapons.
Inavertantly you are also saying that Marines int eh future are dumber than they are now.. (may be true but who knows)
, BTW if all posable I do want a Mini type weapon in the game, just spray away, no need to reaload anything unless you completely run outa bullets.
Ever seen Idiocracy?
The NS1 world featured two machine guns, one larger than the other. Naming them HMG and LMG makes perfect sense. The <b>only</b> reason re-evaluate this naming is if NS2 should feature more than two machine guns. It won't.
If you are so caught up in 'the proper army way to do things' that this simple naming scheme bothers you, I suggest you go play America's Army, a walking commercial by the looks of it. It creeps out my propaganda-sense, but you might like it.
Some admin had the good sense to nuke the 'AA3 IS OUT NOW!!!!' thread. I would make a further suggestion:
Could someone move this to I&S, as this is (in my opinion) clearly a suggestion.
Could someone please lock this thread, as it is by now completely unrelated to NS(2).
Sorry about the bump.
No... the reason it's a smg are these:
1. it's as weak as a SMG is in real life... it's worthless on anything bigger then a gorge or lerk... that doesn't sound like a rifle. A present day M14 could drop an onos in 1-2 shots to the face, and definitely a fade in 1 shot. Turn it into a wet bloody twisted towel in a millisecond.
2. Look Familliar ?? ==>> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_submachine_gun" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_submachine_gun</a>
<img src="http://www.originalprop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/sterling-sub-machine-gun-l2a3-mk4-vintage-british.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
3. Yes it's clip fed... the tendency to call a weapon a machine gun pretty much started and ended in world war 2. (i'm sure their are exceptions but i can't think of any lol)
Can we please leave WWII to world war 2 videogames... pls... it's been beated to death that everyone hates world war 2 now! It's very obvious that the British army and it's weapons played more then a subtle role in this game... NS is literally world war 2 + British soldiers + Aliens and that makes the Aliens Germans...the movie trailer for Dead Snow comes to mind. zzzzzzz Let's make the Aliens iranian north korean hybrids this time around xD
<img src="http://www.kmike.com/oz/2rarJPEG/00006.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1. it's as weak as a SMG is in real life... it's worthless on anything bigger then a gorge or lerk... that doesn't sound like a rifle. A present day M14 could drop an onos in 1-2 shots to the face, and definitely a fade in 1 shot. Turn it into a wet bloody twisted towel in a millisecond.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL. Thanks for your expert opinion on how effective modern day weapons would be against a fictional alien race in a fictional far-future time period.
<!--quoteo(post=1713058:date=Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Look Familliar ?? ==>><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice source image. The only similarity is the side clip though.
<!--quoteo(post=1713058:date=Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 19 2009, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Yes it's clip fed... the tendency to call a weapon a machine gun pretty much started and ended in world war 2. (i'm sure their are exceptions but i can't think of any lol)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again. Old words come back all the time. Really this is the least of my concerns with NS2.
Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again. Old words come back all the time. Really this is the least of my concerns with NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At what point am i saying that magazines will be phased out? or am i missing something... OOO your talking about putting the magazine jutting out the left of the gun... ya their might be a reason that you don't find any modern guns with that style... that tendency also seemed to end in WWII. It could be that it's very unergonomic and VERY HARD FOR LEFT HANDED SHOOTERS. Or do you want to say that everyone is right handed in the future... ok we'll assume the people maker IP is cloning the same marine... that all marines are totally a clone army and their all right handed (but why is it that some marines like welding and some like shotgun and some camp in base and some like to com only... seems to be a flaw in the cloning of the marines right??).. so it's possible their not all right handed. Therefore... THE GUN WONT HAVE THE BLOODY MAGAZINE STICKING OUT THE LEFT SIDE OF THE GUN... THEY WILL BE 100% ERGONOMIC. that means either the magazine is in line with the gun like the p90 or the gun in doom3... or the magazine is under the gun... or their is no replacable magazine... shotgun... or it runs off of a battery... theirfore no bullets and no magazine as a result... just a backpack battery or something else... not necessarily a structure in the shape of a long candy bar sticking out the gun in the perfect place to block the shooters view of his surroundings.
It's just seems that the devs weren't using, as their sole form of guidance on the topic, "Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again"... i'm 100% certain they did it after the wwII gun i mentioned. Or they didn't put any thought into it at all which seems likely.
That wasn't a question. I'm assuming you do.
The question implied is, knowing this, why do you argue about it?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm 100% certain they did it after the wwII gun i mentioned. Or they didn't put any thought into it at all which seems likely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you never heard the phrase, "only fools are certain"?
Hint: It applies here.
Also you must realise the original game was made over seven(?) years ago. These guys are >seven years older now. Factoring in "Doesn't mean it will never be in favour again" probably had nothing to do with it. They were just younger. Light Machine Gun sounded cool, so they used it. It described the gun fairly well in their estimation, and the name didn't hurt anyone, <b>until you</b>.
The fact of the matter is, you're just arguing about semantics, names that are completely arbitrary. Someone else might argue why you aren't using a non-english phrasing (it's the future right, what makes people think that English will continue to be the primary language in use? or in another argument, why is the terminology in english and not an asian or european language?). But those'd be just as weak as arguments. Meanings of terms are arbitrary and based on context - the far future is a pretty extreme context. Do you know what a 'thong' is? An Australian would disagree. Similarly, what you refer to as a machine gun in a modern context, a person in a future context may disagree.
In conclusion, <b>it doesn't matter</b>. You're not convincing anyone.
Then again, I'm sure these don't appear quite as obvious in realism shooters.
Thank you.
Hrhr
In Soviet Russia, Aliens shoot YOU!
I think you hit the nail on the head where everyone else failed.
But their remains a problem. Why use the terminology of "HMG" or "LMG" at all!! For one thing it makes it harder for people to add in other guns to the game that are sort of like lmgs and hmgs...
If it is the future, then it doesn't make sense in the least to use any naming style from present day. I'd be happy if they just gave the guns model number designations like m12 m13 m14 instead of "HMG" "LMG" "PISTOL" "SHOTGUN" "MINE" "WELDER".
That style of naming just makes the game look like arcade ######. Why not just call them "BIG GUN" "LITTLE GUN"... it fits right in.
The use of "HMG" "LMG" is like giving a class-of-weapons designation to one gun. Because obviously their are many types of lmgs, hmgs, smgs, shotguns, pistols in use by the marines in the future (and any mod addon to the game that someone makes).
But their remains a problem. Why use the terminology of "HMG" or "LMG" at all!! For one thing it makes it harder for people to add in other guns to the game that are sort of like lmgs and hmgs...
If it is the future, then it doesn't make sense in the least to use any naming style from present day. I'd be happy if they just gave the guns model number designations like m12 m13 m14 instead of "HMG" "LMG" "PISTOL" "SHOTGUN" "MINE" "WELDER".
That style of naming just makes the game look like arcade ######. Why not just call them "BIG GUN" "LITTLE GUN"... it fits right in.
The use of "HMG" "LMG" is like giving a class-of-weapons designation to one gun. Because obviously their are many types of lmgs, hmgs, smgs, shotguns, pistols in use by the marines in the future (and any mod addon to the game that someone makes).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'comm, drop m13 plz'
'.. which one is that?'
'the shotgun, DUH'
'right'
They use designations like shotgun, grenade launcher, welder, even hmg/smg not only because its just plain easier, but because <i>thats what they are</i>
continental europe then, smartass :P
'.. which one is that?'
'the shotgun, DUH'
'right'
They use designations like shotgun, grenade launcher, welder, even hmg/smg not only because its just plain easier, but because <i>thats what they are</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that's all well and good if theirs only 1 type of each weapon... but that is ignoring the possibility for a server to run a mod that includes other weapons.
What if a server has a mod that includes a USAS type shotgun <a href="http://www.livevideo.com/video/928D0B5FDCCA4DFB835FA56DF39457A3/usas-12-fully-automatic-12-gau.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.livevideo.com/video/928D0B5FDCC...tic-12-gau.aspx</a>
Now you ask the com for a shottie... 50% chance you wont get what you want, if he gives you a gun at all.