<!--quoteo(post=1701907:date=Mar 4 2009, 02:44 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Mar 4 2009, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or WoW and just about every other MMO I could name which associates the word 'free' with "We're shutting down the servers, have fun for the next 2 weeks everybody!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701912:date=Mar 4 2009, 02:40 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Mar 4 2009, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's referring to the fact that CCP are rather unique in that every time an MMO offers something for nothing, it's generally because they're about to take something away with the other hand. Such as:
"This MMO is now free. Oh wait, we're actually closing it in a month, but right now, all you suckers who have paid until now can play for free. No, we're not providing any method for anyone else to take up the hosting, because soon we'll have another one we want you to front the cash for."
EVE 'Expansions' have often been fairly large (by EVE scale of course, the amount of content they need to add is fairly minimal) but represent fairly substantial amounts of work, especially given their size. It's a different business model, and no, I'm not hugely interested in debating how different it actually is. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
To be fair, it is still Excel Spreadsheets in space, but it's the metagame that works it for me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm not sure I'm willing to grant that it's "for nothing." You're still paying monthly fees. Otherwise I'm saying that Guild Wars is free to play because you don't pay monthly fees.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701921:date=Mar 4 2009, 03:55 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Mar 4 2009, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701921"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure I'm willing to grant that it's "for nothing." You're still paying monthly fees. Otherwise I'm saying that Guild Wars is free to play because you don't pay monthly fees.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd agree, and Guild Wars is another pretty unique example. Then again, GW isn't really very MMO, it's more Diablo with a graphical interface to the chatroom portion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's roughly 425€ per year.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats more than I spent on my entire system that I've been using for the last 2 years or so (I bought it used). The only reason I bothered upgrading that far was so I could realistically use viirtual machines.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...and updated the visuals from circa 2001 to a comfortable 07'-08'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What was wrong with the 2001 visuals and why was the visual upgrade non-optional? Does the prettiness of the game really enhance its value that much? You're talking to a guy who plays dwarf fortress remember.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly Skulkbait either try the game or don't try the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Done.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[You'll find a reason to hate EVE no matter what](paraphrased)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, maybe. But I was originally attracted to EVE by something I liked (specifically the BoB incident and community response). I kept trying to find reasons to play it and was disapointed at every turn. The rediculous system requirements were just the last straw. Trust me, you don't want me playing your game, it'd be a bad cultural fit.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be fair, it is still Excel Spreadsheets in space, but it's the metagame that works it for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At least some one is willing to admit it.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1701927:date=Mar 4 2009, 08:26 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Mar 4 2009, 08:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The rediculous system requirements were just the last straw. Trust me, you don't want me playing your game, it'd be a bad cultural fit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? The system requirements have me playing it on a school laptop from 2002. /boggle
And it can be more than Excel Spreadsheets in space, but I don't think the game that it can be in that case is one you like anyhow.
The graphics upgrade in EvE is optional, how did nobody point this out yet? You can still run it using the 2001 graphics engine. Or if you have a good enough computer you can enable the premium graphics content.
A new just-below-top-of-the-line system will run you about 700-900 (depending on extras you want, big harddrive etc) assuming you build it yourself (and everyone here should be building it themselves). You probably won't have to upgrade for 3-4 years assuming you don't bother with "superhightechgraphics" games, which shouldn't be much of a problem considering many of them have awful game-play anyway (I'm looking at you Crysis and Haze and Resistance:FoM).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The graphics upgrade in EvE is optional, how did nobody point this out yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If this is true, then it isn't made clear anywhere on there site that there is an alternative to the client.
I don't understand why people keep telling me how "inexpensive" it would be to upgrade my system. I already told you: I can't justify that kind of expense just to play some goddamn games. Its great that you're all rich enough to not have to worry about where your money goes, but I'm not. If I can't justify $400 (this is my estimated cost to upgrade to a decent system) to do something besides make my games prettier, then I'm not going to spend it.
<!--quoteo(post=1701926:date=Mar 4 2009, 05:18 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Mar 4 2009, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd agree, and Guild Wars is another pretty unique example. Then again, GW isn't really very MMO, it's more Diablo with a graphical interface to the chatroom portion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In that case, Eve is an interactive screensaver.
<!--quoteo(post=1701944:date=Mar 4 2009, 01:56 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Mar 4 2009, 01:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701944"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this is true, then it isn't made clear anywhere on there site that there is an alternative to the client.
I don't understand why people keep telling me how "inexpensive" it would be to upgrade my system. I already told you: I can't justify that kind of expense just to play some goddamn games. Its great that you're all rich enough to not have to worry about where your money goes, but I'm not. If I can't justify $400 (this is my estimated cost to upgrade to a decent system) to do something besides make my games prettier, then I'm not going to spend it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is only one client, you choose whether to enable or disable premium content.
We get it, you have no dispensable income. Now would you stop trolling and derailing<i> every single</i> video-game thread with your pointless whining about how the video game industry is committing some terrible crime by not catering to the lowest minority of video game players (aka: you)?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is only one client, you choose whether to enable or disable premium content.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So those minimum specs were for the <i>low graphics</i> version of the client? How does that change anything then?
For your information, I was originally trolling about the grind in MMOs. So yeah.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701927:date=Mar 4 2009, 04:26 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Mar 4 2009, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At least some one is willing to admit it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Admit implies reluctance, or admission of some failure. It is what it is. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I play it mostly for the metagame / politics that real people have generated, rather than the actual mechanics of spaceships shooting at one another.
<!--quoteo(post=1701964:date=Mar 4 2009, 04:33 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Mar 4 2009, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So those minimum specs were for the <i>low graphics</i> version of the client? How does that change anything then?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1 ghz processor 1 gig ram 64mb graphics card ? Do they even make 64mb graphics cards anymore?
OR you could stop moaning about what are VERY modest requirements for current games. It's not like you complain that Gears of War doesn't work on the original Xbox.
They are only "modest" if you happen to already own the hardware required. Or are otherwise used to spending large amounts of money to upgrade a computer solely for the purpose of playing games. Thats what really gets me. No one here seems to be upgrading their computer for any other purpose. It is solely a gaming device to you, and thats whats wrong with the PC gaming industry IMO, that it caters to you instead of people who own a computer for other reasons and might want to play some games on it (actually, the casual gaming market is picking up the slack here quite nicely).
And I would stop moaning, if you would stop trying to convince me either that I'm wrong to think that that kind of hardware shouldn't be required (thats engaging in argument, which I will oblige if desired) or that I'm being ridiculous for using this criteria to decide not to try the game.
You honestly can't expect your hardware to last forever. A game that uses the 2.0 shaders simply can't run on hardware that doesn't support it. You either code your game to use 1.x shaders (less pretty), 2.0 shaders (not compatible with very old hardware) or both (twice the work). Given those three options, coding it for shader 2.0 support is the best choice.
As for "large amounts of money," I bought a 2.0-capable (AGP) graphics card for 50€ almost three years ago (a Radeon 9600XT). If it costs you more now, it's because you're trying to purchase an ANTIQUE.
As I mentioned, I actually do meet the requirements. This is more of a "principle" thing (it would almost certainly run like ass unless I upgrade). I did have an incorrect conception of shaders, so requiring a certain shader model makes sense now, but 1 gig of ram? really? I've seen pictures of EvE, and even video once, and I don't see anything that leads me to believe it needs twice the ram of TF2. Hell, from what I could tell the gameplay wouldn't even be significantly hampered if it were rendered in 2d.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1701978:date=Mar 4 2009, 07:30 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Mar 4 2009, 07:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As I mentioned, I actually do meet the requirements. This is more of a "principle" thing (it would almost certainly run like ass unless I upgrade). I did have an incorrect conception of shaders, so requiring a certain shader model makes sense now, but 1 gig of ram? really? I've seen pictures of EvE, and even video once, and I don't see anything that leads me to believe it needs twice the ram of TF2. Hell, from what I could tell the gameplay wouldn't even be significantly hampered if it were rendered in 2d.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, lets get some basics:
Players per TF2 game: ~32 max. Yes you can hack it to make it bigger, but comon. Players in average EvE encounter: 80+ Players in delve every day right now: 150+ Players in delve any time two sides meet: 400+
Let alone the fact that EvE has to convey quite a bit more information immediately to every client than TF2.
The RAM thing makes sense. But it's not really the min- they're treating their min much more generously than most companies do. In reality its probably closer to 512ish. Maybe. As long as you aren't joining either of the two sides going for delve.
Your math doesn't account for the models and textures belonging to the average TF2 map.
Perhaps I have been too harsh though. I sometimes forget that my hardware was a few years old when I bought it (a few years ago). Still 6GB is too big an investment for me to try something I'm fairly certain I won't like anyway.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
edited March 2009
Irregardless of the technical requirements of modern games, the simple fact is that 95%+ of the gamer audience when asked the question "Do you want your games to look better" will respond with a resounding "Yes!" followed immediately by "But I don't want to spend a lot of money."
Which is why we have such a wide gamut of games which offer considerable flexibility with quality within the game itself. You CAN play a wide variety of modern games with recent hardware. A game like Team Fortress 2 for example, you can run it at 800x600 resolution with low quality textures and so forth with an old system while those who enjoy gaming at a somewhat more involved level are still able to play the same game at twice the frames per second, twice the resolution or higher and at maximum settings.
This is pretty fundamental economics here. Regardless of how the situation of the gaming environment came to pass, as it currently stands there are people who always want The Next Best Thing and rightly so. That's called *progress*. Since a lot of people are out there and willing to pay for games that push the boundaries it's really quite natural that game developers push that envelope. You wouldn't pay anything today for a game that was forced to use the same technical limitations as Oregon Trail now would you?
I dunno. I payed for Gravitron II (as part of a pack of 5 indie games), which has slightly better than graphics than the original Asteroids. I also bought Peggle. And, as already mentioned, I play Dwarf Fortress. I recognize that I'm not 95% (I think you overestimate, BTW) of gamers, and thats probably the source of my frustration with this industry.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You CAN play a wide variety of modern games with recent hardware.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well no. Recent hardware basically just gives you access to the latest FPS design abortions. Theres really not a lot of variety at all outside the indie market.
Incidentally, I play TF2 on 640x480 with the absolute lowest possible settings and get about 10-15 fps in a busy scene. It looks barely better than TFC with a much lower framerate. I forgive it because it is well designed (save a few stupidities), and stabbing people in the back is so damn satisfying.
Perhaps you should split off your discussion of hardware and why you don't like upgrading into another thread. I think this has gone way off topic from a discussion about Eve.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
ok, back on topic:
I hate eve and can't stand the game. However reading some of the stories that come out of it still entertain me and I fully understand the attraction it has to some people.
That being said, 2 pieces from The Mittani: <a href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64347" target="_blank">An interview</a> with him about the disbanding of BoB (includes links to all the pertinent info). A piece written by him: <a href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64804" target="_blank">The Mittani's Guide on How Not to Kill a Titan</a> (about some stuff that happened to GS after they moved to Delve.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps you should split off your discussion of hardware and why you don't like upgrading into another thread. I think this has gone way off topic from a discussion about Eve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah, I think I'm done now. Honestly I don't know what got into me yesterday to make me so antagonistic.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Okay, Apocrypha is out, and the new features are, in a word, ace.
I've not had chance to give it a proper play yet, but the new character generation is sublime compared to the old one. Being able to reassign stats means no more pidgeonholing into certain bloodlines if you want to make a specific character, fitting screen is significantly improved.
I'm nowhere near the level to work on the new wormhole content or T3 ships, but first impressions from CCP are very good indeed.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
I don't even know the requirements but I would guess I'm pretty much ideally skilled and fitted up to go out hunting for wormholes. I invested a huge chunk of skill training into all the Exploration and scan probing skills before my subscription ran out so if I resubbed today I would probably find a wormhole by tonight. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1702504:date=Mar 11 2009, 11:18 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Mar 11 2009, 11:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1702504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't even know the requirements but I would guess I'm pretty much ideally skilled and fitted up to go out hunting for wormholes. I invested a huge chunk of skill training into all the Exploration and scan probing skills before my subscription ran out so if I resubbed today I would probably find a wormhole by tonight. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Didn't they remove the "skill up when un subbed" thing?
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
No I mean, I invested a lot of skill training into exploration. Then I set Caldari Battleship 5 to train when my sub ran out, while they were still letting unsubbed characters finish training. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
What?
He's referring to the fact that CCP are rather unique in that every time an MMO offers something for nothing, it's generally because they're about to take something away with the other hand. Such as:
"This MMO is now free. Oh wait, we're actually closing it in a month, but right now, all you suckers who have paid until now can play for free. No, we're not providing any method for anyone else to take up the hosting, because soon we'll have another one we want you to front the cash for."
EVE 'Expansions' have often been fairly large (by EVE scale of course, the amount of content they need to add is fairly minimal) but represent fairly substantial amounts of work, especially given their size. It's a different business model, and no, I'm not hugely interested in debating how different it actually is. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
To be fair, it is still Excel Spreadsheets in space, but it's the metagame that works it for me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'd agree, and Guild Wars is another pretty unique example. Then again, GW isn't really very MMO, it's more Diablo with a graphical interface to the chatroom portion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Thats more than I spent on my entire system that I've been using for the last 2 years or so (I bought it used). The only reason I bothered upgrading that far was so I could realistically use viirtual machines.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...and updated the visuals from circa 2001 to a comfortable 07'-08'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What was wrong with the 2001 visuals and why was the visual upgrade non-optional? Does the prettiness of the game really enhance its value that much? You're talking to a guy who plays dwarf fortress remember.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly Skulkbait either try the game or don't try the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Done.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[You'll find a reason to hate EVE no matter what](paraphrased)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, maybe. But I was originally attracted to EVE by something I liked (specifically the BoB incident and community response). I kept trying to find reasons to play it and was disapointed at every turn. The rediculous system requirements were just the last straw. Trust me, you don't want me playing your game, it'd be a bad cultural fit.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be fair, it is still Excel Spreadsheets in space, but it's the metagame that works it for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least some one is willing to admit it.
What? The system requirements have me playing it on a school laptop from 2002. /boggle
And it can be more than Excel Spreadsheets in space, but I don't think the game that it can be in that case is one you like anyhow.
A new just-below-top-of-the-line system will run you about 700-900 (depending on extras you want, big harddrive etc) assuming you build it yourself (and everyone here should be building it themselves). You probably won't have to upgrade for 3-4 years assuming you don't bother with "superhightechgraphics" games, which shouldn't be much of a problem considering many of them have awful game-play anyway (I'm looking at you Crysis and Haze and Resistance:FoM).
If this is true, then it isn't made clear anywhere on there site that there is an alternative to the client.
I don't understand why people keep telling me how "inexpensive" it would be to upgrade my system. I already told you: I can't justify that kind of expense just to play some goddamn games. Its great that you're all rich enough to not have to worry about where your money goes, but I'm not. If I can't justify $400 (this is my estimated cost to upgrade to a decent system) to do something besides make my games prettier, then I'm not going to spend it.
In that case, Eve is an interactive screensaver.
I don't understand why people keep telling me how "inexpensive" it would be to upgrade my system. I already told you: I can't justify that kind of expense just to play some goddamn games. Its great that you're all rich enough to not have to worry about where your money goes, but I'm not. If I can't justify $400 (this is my estimated cost to upgrade to a decent system) to do something besides make my games prettier, then I'm not going to spend it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is only one client, you choose whether to enable or disable premium content.
We get it, you have no dispensable income. Now would you stop trolling and derailing<i> every single</i> video-game thread with your pointless whining about how the video game industry is committing some terrible crime by not catering to the lowest minority of video game players (aka: you)?
So those minimum specs were for the <i>low graphics</i> version of the client? How does that change anything then?
For your information, I was originally trolling about the grind in MMOs. So yeah.
Admit implies reluctance, or admission of some failure. It is what it is. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I play it mostly for the metagame / politics that real people have generated, rather than the actual mechanics of spaceships shooting at one another.
1 ghz processor
1 gig ram
64mb graphics card
?
Do they even make 64mb graphics cards anymore?
If you wish me to stop bemoaning the state of gaming hardware requirements then you should stop bringing them up.
And I would stop moaning, if you would stop trying to convince me either that I'm wrong to think that that kind of hardware shouldn't be required (thats engaging in argument, which I will oblige if desired) or that I'm being ridiculous for using this criteria to decide not to try the game.
As for "large amounts of money," I bought a 2.0-capable (AGP) graphics card for 50€ almost three years ago (a Radeon 9600XT). If it costs you more now, it's because you're trying to purchase an ANTIQUE.
Well, lets get some basics:
Players per TF2 game: ~32 max. Yes you can hack it to make it bigger, but comon.
Players in average EvE encounter: 80+
Players in delve every day right now: 150+
Players in delve any time two sides meet: 400+
Let alone the fact that EvE has to convey quite a bit more information immediately to every client than TF2.
The RAM thing makes sense. But it's not really the min- they're treating their min much more generously than most companies do. In reality its probably closer to 512ish. Maybe. As long as you aren't joining either of the two sides going for delve.
Perhaps I have been too harsh though. I sometimes forget that my hardware was a few years old when I bought it (a few years ago). Still 6GB is too big an investment for me to try something I'm fairly certain I won't like anyway.
Which is why we have such a wide gamut of games which offer considerable flexibility with quality within the game itself. You CAN play a wide variety of modern games with recent hardware. A game like Team Fortress 2 for example, you can run it at 800x600 resolution with low quality textures and so forth with an old system while those who enjoy gaming at a somewhat more involved level are still able to play the same game at twice the frames per second, twice the resolution or higher and at maximum settings.
This is pretty fundamental economics here. Regardless of how the situation of the gaming environment came to pass, as it currently stands there are people who always want The Next Best Thing and rightly so. That's called *progress*. Since a lot of people are out there and willing to pay for games that push the boundaries it's really quite natural that game developers push that envelope. You wouldn't pay anything today for a game that was forced to use the same technical limitations as Oregon Trail now would you?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You CAN play a wide variety of modern games with recent hardware.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well no. Recent hardware basically just gives you access to the latest FPS design abortions. Theres really not a lot of variety at all outside the indie market.
Incidentally, I play TF2 on 640x480 with the absolute lowest possible settings and get about 10-15 fps in a busy scene. It looks barely better than TFC with a much lower framerate. I forgive it because it is well designed (save a few stupidities), and stabbing people in the back is so damn satisfying.
I hate eve and can't stand the game. However reading some of the stories that come out of it still entertain me and I fully understand the attraction it has to some people.
That being said, 2 pieces from The Mittani:
<a href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64347" target="_blank">An interview</a> with him about the disbanding of BoB (includes links to all the pertinent info).
A piece written by him: <a href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64804" target="_blank">The Mittani's Guide on How Not to Kill a Titan</a> (about some stuff that happened to GS after they moved to Delve.
Nah, I think I'm done now. Honestly I don't know what got into me yesterday to make me so antagonistic.
I've not had chance to give it a proper play yet, but the new character generation is sublime compared to the old one. Being able to reassign stats means no more pidgeonholing into certain bloodlines if you want to make a specific character, fitting screen is significantly improved.
I'm nowhere near the level to work on the new wormhole content or T3 ships, but first impressions from CCP are very good indeed.
Didn't they remove the "skill up when un subbed" thing?
Anyways, i'm updated and ready to go haha.