A Few New Ideas
zBA|Cronus
Join Date: 2008-10-05 Member: 65135Members
Join Date: 2008-10-05 Member: 65135Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Gamma setting/Flashlight/Comm Option</div>Just a few new ideas I haven't seen yet...
<u><b>1. Gamma/Light Setting</b></u>
One of the things I don't like about Natural Selection now is the ability for the player to change around his light and gamma settings so easily. A big part of NS game play for the aliens <i>should</i> be the ability to hide in the shadows/darkness, hence why marines carry a flashlight.
Giving the players the option to increase their light settings in game makes no sense to me and should not be there. It completely changes the game play around. (Think about the recent Doom game, it would completely suck if you turned all the lights on).
Now I know this wouldn't change the fact that people could still change their settings on their computer but if there was a way to make it so the game forces the player to uses a certain light and gamma setting I think it should be implemented.
<u><b>2. Alien Flashlight</b></u>
Something else I would like changed around is the alien flashlight. The flashlight itself is fine but I don't think all lifeforms should get it. Pretty much it would go as follows:
Skulk - yes - Simple, they are the scouts. Their primary job is to locate. They need the darkness to hide so it only makes sense they should have good vision in it.
Gorge - Yes - Same as the skulk, they spend most of their time in dark places, they also need it to hide.
Lerk - Yes - The defensive alien, stays back in darkness and attacks from a distance.
Fade - No - Fades don't necessarily need to use the dark. They sacrifice their vision for speed and power.
Onos - No - Onos Sacrifice their vision for health and power.
The alien lifeforms are based on evolution. When they evolve, they gain and lose attributes. There is a reason why fades or onos's dont have parasite because they simply dont need it. Same goes with the flashlight. It will make it harder on the player but I think it makes more sense for the game.
However, this isn't to say that the fades or onos will never be able to use the flashlight. There will be certain times when it will work for them, for example:
1. If they get Scent of Fear. Makes sense, if SoF gives the aliens the ability to see where the marines are through walls, they should definitely be able to locate a marine in a pitch black room. This also makes the Sensory chamber a little more valuable for an onos.
2. If a Skulk parasites the marine. A Parasite gives a permanent mark on the marine revealing their location. The alien flashlight will only work on these parasited marines for the fades and onos (unless of course they have SoF in which case it will work on everyone). The reasoning behind this is the same as SoF.
<u><b>3. Commander Map Options</b></u>
Right now in most classic maps there are weld points. When marines weld them either a door will open, lights will turn on, an elevator will work, or vents will close. Now instead of this happening automatically, I would like to see in NS2 that when these are welded, it gives the Commander the option to use res to open/close doors and vents or turn lights on and off.
It will add much more strategy to the game for the marines. Giving the commander the ability to maybe save a group of his marines from an onos by closing a door behind them that was welded previously. Or maybe, if my other ideas are implemented, to use res to turn off the lights in a room, this way it gives added protection from a fade/onos for a marine who is trying to build a PG.
Thats all I got for now, let me know what you guys think.
<u><b>1. Gamma/Light Setting</b></u>
One of the things I don't like about Natural Selection now is the ability for the player to change around his light and gamma settings so easily. A big part of NS game play for the aliens <i>should</i> be the ability to hide in the shadows/darkness, hence why marines carry a flashlight.
Giving the players the option to increase their light settings in game makes no sense to me and should not be there. It completely changes the game play around. (Think about the recent Doom game, it would completely suck if you turned all the lights on).
Now I know this wouldn't change the fact that people could still change their settings on their computer but if there was a way to make it so the game forces the player to uses a certain light and gamma setting I think it should be implemented.
<u><b>2. Alien Flashlight</b></u>
Something else I would like changed around is the alien flashlight. The flashlight itself is fine but I don't think all lifeforms should get it. Pretty much it would go as follows:
Skulk - yes - Simple, they are the scouts. Their primary job is to locate. They need the darkness to hide so it only makes sense they should have good vision in it.
Gorge - Yes - Same as the skulk, they spend most of their time in dark places, they also need it to hide.
Lerk - Yes - The defensive alien, stays back in darkness and attacks from a distance.
Fade - No - Fades don't necessarily need to use the dark. They sacrifice their vision for speed and power.
Onos - No - Onos Sacrifice their vision for health and power.
The alien lifeforms are based on evolution. When they evolve, they gain and lose attributes. There is a reason why fades or onos's dont have parasite because they simply dont need it. Same goes with the flashlight. It will make it harder on the player but I think it makes more sense for the game.
However, this isn't to say that the fades or onos will never be able to use the flashlight. There will be certain times when it will work for them, for example:
1. If they get Scent of Fear. Makes sense, if SoF gives the aliens the ability to see where the marines are through walls, they should definitely be able to locate a marine in a pitch black room. This also makes the Sensory chamber a little more valuable for an onos.
2. If a Skulk parasites the marine. A Parasite gives a permanent mark on the marine revealing their location. The alien flashlight will only work on these parasited marines for the fades and onos (unless of course they have SoF in which case it will work on everyone). The reasoning behind this is the same as SoF.
<u><b>3. Commander Map Options</b></u>
Right now in most classic maps there are weld points. When marines weld them either a door will open, lights will turn on, an elevator will work, or vents will close. Now instead of this happening automatically, I would like to see in NS2 that when these are welded, it gives the Commander the option to use res to open/close doors and vents or turn lights on and off.
It will add much more strategy to the game for the marines. Giving the commander the ability to maybe save a group of his marines from an onos by closing a door behind them that was welded previously. Or maybe, if my other ideas are implemented, to use res to turn off the lights in a room, this way it gives added protection from a fade/onos for a marine who is trying to build a PG.
Thats all I got for now, let me know what you guys think.
Comments
Alien Light-The dev team, if i remember, is giving all aliens ajustable eyes, no need to press a key, as when they go in dark, they slowly ajust, but quick enough to be of use.
Comm-hmmm, naa, i like the fact it's the marine Welding a Safety Panel Open to activate emergency lights, or welding a power fuse together to restore this doors Locking Mechanism.
I think that's a given. Unfortunately though, some people's video cards render at much lower contrasts than others, and so what one player might see is not what another might see. So, you have to allow them to calibrate for them, but then you'd open the window for them to be able to lie and say they couldn't see anything, thus getting the highest contrast. Even if you made it so that this value was set once during installation, someone could reinstall just for that reason.
It sucks, but there's really no getting around it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Alien Flashlight<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It'd be neat to have some sort of altered vision in which darkness weren't possible. If that were done, it'd be nice to see different vision for different classes. Skulks would get infrared vision while fades would get some sort of negative view. Could be neat.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Commander Map Options
Right now in most classic maps there are weld points. When marines weld them either a door will open, lights will turn on, an elevator will work, or vents will close. Now instead of this happening automatically, I would like to see in NS2 that when these are welded, it gives the Commander the option to use res to open/close doors and vents or turn lights on and off.
It will add much more strategy to the game for the marines. Giving the commander the ability to maybe save a group of his marines from an onos by closing a door behind them that was welded previously. Or maybe, if my other ideas are implemented, to use res to turn off the lights in a room, this way it gives added protection from a fade/onos for a marine who is trying to build a PG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you may have something here. The comm is afterall much more in touch with the overall flow of the game. It makes sense that they should be able to trigger such things. Though I also don't think marines should lose their ability to trigger the buttons. Also seems much more in touch with the whole 'commander of the station' concept in that he can utilize controls rendered available for him to use.
The marine will be the one who has to weld the selected area in order to give access for the commander. And also, once a marine does weld a selected area, it probably would make sense for something to happen automatically (lights turning on, doors closing/opening) because the system has been fixed and restarted so it goes back to default.
But afterwards, the commander will have the ability to control those areas using res.
Also, I figured as much for the light gamma setting, just thought it would be nice...
I think yes he should control some stuff, but depending on how the Weld Point looks and acts logicly, to....be logical?
Having them weld open a panel to switch on Emergency Lights, shouldnt
Having them weld together a power conduit to reactivate this doors Locking Mechanism, should
All dependent on what the point looks like so we can have a fun, cool, and LOGICAL game, logic is as important to a game as the gameplay itself.
I don't think its that far fetched and should even be possible to implement with some map tweaking and a bit of scripting. I actually think it could make way for some great map dependant strategy elements.
I don't think its that far fetched and should even be possible to implement with some map tweaking and a bit of scripting. I actually think it could make way for some great map dependant strategy elements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming that the aliens still are working on the hit and run logic in NS2 its a big risk that the doorways become bad chokepoints. At least I'd avoid blinking in if I knew that the door behind me is going to close. You'll relatively often see how Origin turns out to be a chokepoint war on industrial because of the small lift leading to dbl. That's most likely not even remotely as effective as the commander closing doors.
EX: Marine welds power line together. Fade jump threw. Commander lock door. Fade cut power line, and door open. Marine can't reweld power line cause of too extensive of damage.
The aliens can't pre-kill the Weld Point to prevent its use, but after being welded it can. Meaning if there is a weld point IN the hive room that locks the air Tight doors...... locking the aliens in, the aliens can be smart and kill the power line to the door and it would slighty open at the bottom, enough for onos, TA DA, the map changed abit, before you had this TALL and WIDE entrance to hive, now it's just a crack at the bottom, making JP's have trouble raiding, and lerks from getting out easily.
Some sort of the alien's DI would have to be used, maybe if DI creeps over this locked door that lead behind the marine start, it gets forced open? making the marines have to watch their back incase the DI gets there.
Since DI will be implemented and will already affect terrain (dim lights, break ######, hold elevators stuck, etc) this would be the aliens weld points, the weld point just requires DI, which the gorge can spread so TA DA, so DI must be on the locked door for 2 minutes untill it's fully wedged open =).
Who told you that? Aliens have plenty of places to hide as it is. Attempting to fight in an environment you can't see in as a marine negates fun.
Cronus, that not what i say, i say there's certain points on the map, where if DI reaches them, something happens,
EX:Door leading to marine Start opens by being forced open by Dynamic Infestation. If a weld point is covered in DI, the welder can burn the DI off before starting to weld the point
Why should the mappers be forced to give aliens an advantage? The teams should be balanced without the need for terrain advantages. NS maps can feel gritty and moody without darkness, look at ns_tanith
Also, adding darkness is a way of cheating as a mapper.
Not really. It's just one option in making a map balanced.
for example long straight corridors and excessive lighting and few places for skulks to ambush from
I'd say the door locking shouldn't be taking such a big role. Interacting with the actual marines and fighting over the resoucres and hive spots are much more dynamic for the map control. Later on mappers can add those weldables on custom maps, but once again, the devs need to create a solid core for the gameplay first.
I prefer interesting architecture over darkness when it comes to hiding. It's so rewarding to find a new spot on a map you've been playing for years. For example origin and metal are full of absolutely rewarding ledges, ceiling objects and other skulk spots nobody ever checks. Pulling off a few jumps on some well planned ceiling objects and landing on an unsuspecting marine is one of the best feelings you get as a skulk.
I also think that variating the lighting could be used more. Tanith, Orbital and Origin all manage to be very personal looking maps even though there's also enough of lighting to see the aliens. Just add a bit of colour, personal architecture and textures and you've got some absolutely stunning maps. Machina has also got quite good lighting when it comes to seeing things.
On less serious note:
Keep on speculating about the commander options, it keeps up the forum activity <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I never said it wasn't an option. It is a very cheap way of not doing actual work (editing map mesh/having good textures because bad textures in darkness are less apparent) Plus darkness isn't fun for the marines to fight in. Light is alright for the aliens, as long as they have their corners, doorways and vents.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well in case you haven't noticed quite a few maps are already oriented to gives the marines an advantage
for example long straight corridors and excessive lighting and few places for skulks to ambush from<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference here being that if an alien ambushes you from a non invisible position and you see him, you have your .2 seconds to react before the first bite. If you can't see the alien before its first bite though, you're pretty much balled with no hope of staying alive, unless the alien is very, very terrible.
its not like im trying to say the whole map should be completely pitch black, I was just saying make that flashlight the marines carry more useful, thats all. And that idea is pretty much dead because theres no way to force a gamma setting so that topic should be over...
main thing here is the commander and weld controls.
<!--quoteo(post=1689821:date=Oct 9 2008, 01:57 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Oct 9 2008, 01:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1689821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd say the door locking shouldn't be taking such a big role. Interacting with the actual marines and fighting over the resoucres and hive spots are much more dynamic for the map control. Later on mappers can add those weldables on custom maps, but once again, the devs need to create a solid core for the gameplay first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also believe that the devs need to make a solid game first and that there are a such thing as pre-game and post-game release suggestions. Most of what I have been seeing in this forums are better for after the release of the game. But who knows, this may be either, if it isn't complicated to make work then I think it would be a fun addition that the developers can add, if not then I will revive this topic if it dies when the game is released for anyone to try and make it work.
Also, does anybody actually important go through these? And if so, I have another suggestions, just give a quick reply of "Yes", "No", or "Maybe" so we know if we are just wasting our time or not. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> You can even be mean about it. Say something like, "No, this is the dumbest idea ever". This way nobody will try to improve upon it because its just stupid and people won't post similar ideas.
um... the commander controlling the weld points after they are welded?
i agree in this. but wasn't the idea about ns2 that the maps should be like perfect from the start?
and then things like DI should make it infested. which would probably block lightsources, making a darker environment?
Correction. Commanders in NS1 can operate any button that a basic Marine can operate. It's just sometimes really annoying to try and push them since they're usually small.
As far Commander control of maps, it's been an evermore popular idea. As a concept, welding to allow more commander control would be interesting, but welding always leaves the choice to the comm or welding to provide control to the comm (on an otherwise Marine controlled button) doesn't make sense.
To clarify, if welding always gave the comm a choice (i.e. weld, then the comm has to manually close that vent) would be foolish. You sometimes just need results and there's no reason to reverse it. If it granted the comm more control that basic Marines already had (controlling a button for a door) it would be a step back from NS1 where that was a free mechanic.
Something I would like is to keep Comm control over all buttons in the map, just like in NS1, but make them easier to manipulate. Basically, dynamically generate around all buttons an extra entity for the Commander. That way, the Commander can click on a larger target than that puny button to get something to work. It also would help with recessed buttons in the walls which are extraordinarily hard to hit from Comm view.
I do not want certain key maps controls only in Commander control. For example, creating an elevator only controllable by the Comm. It creates more stress and unnecessary micro. However, having broad and subtle Comm controls would be interesting. Activating special room features and such would be rewarding for a clever Comm. Maybe you have to control or weld something in that room to give the Comm access to it, but it can't be game breaking advantages. i.e. turning on lights should not be under Comm control. Turning on a few auxiliary lights maybe under Comm control (why couldn't Marines access them? Also, why reverse? Always helpful for Marines). Creating pop-up barriers in a room definitely comm control (not a strong advantage, can also help Aliens hide, but help funnel Aliens).
The only thing that the commander would not have control over are buttons that don't require welding to operate because these usually are necessary access points for both teams and would unbalance the game completely if the comm could spend some res to close all doors surrounding a hive so aliens (especially onos) can get stuck.
It's more balanced with only having access to weld points because those usually are shortcuts, pathways that aren't necessary to get to your destination but might make it a little quicker. A good example is a marine who welds a vent shut then later on everyone gets jp's. The comm opens this vent back up so the jpers can take shortcuts to the hive.