M.A.S.C.
Radix
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Mobile Automated Siege Cannons and Their Uses</div>Some points to consider:
1) Should it be rideable or pilotable? If so, in what ways?
2) How fast should it move (relative to a marine's default run speed)?
3) <i>Relative to other buildings, using examples such as the armory and infantry portal as a base</i>, what should the build times be to construct the masc? To deploy the masc at its destination?
4) What types of targets should it be able to attack? Just hives? All structures? Dynamic infestation? Eggs? Should there be splash damage against lifeforms, or should it simply nuke lifeforms?
5) If there are multiple commanders, should one commander be able to take over all micro-management of weldbots/siegetanks while watching the other comm's actions? How should this be handled?
1) Should it be rideable or pilotable? If so, in what ways?
2) How fast should it move (relative to a marine's default run speed)?
3) <i>Relative to other buildings, using examples such as the armory and infantry portal as a base</i>, what should the build times be to construct the masc? To deploy the masc at its destination?
4) What types of targets should it be able to attack? Just hives? All structures? Dynamic infestation? Eggs? Should there be splash damage against lifeforms, or should it simply nuke lifeforms?
5) If there are multiple commanders, should one commander be able to take over all micro-management of weldbots/siegetanks while watching the other comm's actions? How should this be handled?
Comments
I think it should be ride-able by any life form. But only the commander should be able to pilot it.
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2) How fast should it move (relative to a marine's default run speed)?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I picture it moving slow. Like a tad slower than a marine walk. It is a cannon after all.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->3) <i>Relative to other buildings, using examples such as the armory and infantry portal as a base</i>, what should the build times be to construct the masc? <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I picture it taking a long time. (It is a cannon after all) About the time it takes to build a TF and a Siege cannon on NS1.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->To deploy the masc at its destination?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Very fast (zip, clank, BOOM)
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4) What types of targets should it be able to attack? Just hives? All structures? Dynamic infestation? Eggs? Should there be splash damage against lifeforms, or should it simply nuke lifeforms?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The hive should take the most damage points. structures should take a small hit if they are near the cannon with the exception of maybe defense chambers - I like the idea of splash damage to alien life forms if they are near the hive when it takes a hit. Eggs should be immune to all damage.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->5) If there are multiple commanders, should one commander be able to take over all micro-management of weldbots/siegetanks while watching the other comm's actions? How should this be handled?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Boo to the idea of a second commander.
2) At least Marine walk speed. Any slower and it'll take too long to get anywhere. Unless there's a stationary version, and this is just the mobile version. I would recommend closer to between Marine walk and run speed. It's not a go cart.
3) This depends where it is in the tech tree. If this is just the mobile version, it should be moderately speedy. Perhaps if a TF exists, it can be dropped as a building nearby but has the option to load into its more mobile version. An interesting twist would be that it can't enter mobile mode until you research something. =] Kinda like in StaCraft Siege tanks can't use siege mode until it's researched. As for how fast it deploys, the StarCraft siege tank animation time is pretty decent, albeit perhaps a little too quick. Unless this sucker really deals the damage, it shouldn't take more than 15-20 seconds at most. That should be long enough for the stabilizers to go down, it open up, and charge up for it's first volley. There's also those Tau units in WH40K that deploy. They take about 20-30 seconds. Basically, I don't want to babysit it for a whole minute.
4) All structures. Allow for research to add extra damage when it shoots a Hive. It should target a Hive if in range as first priority, but allow the Comm to re-target manually. Splash to nearby buildings is good, but not Aliens. Another upgrade could add the splash to Aliens themselves. Eggs are invulnerable to the splash.
5) Secondary commander gets command or siege/weld bots. Main comm can overrule, but sec comm can't overrule main comm. Main comm drops buildings/weapons/equipment/research. Secondary can drop equipment and can give out waypoints, but only has control of secondary buildings like weldbots or the MASC. Both have access to the Obs abilities (beacon, scanner sweep).
I'm not 100% where you're going with that. My envisionment would be to have a TF, upgrade it to Siege level, then the MAS can be dropped and built, but it starts deployed. Thus, it can function as a normal, stationary siege. However, if you have the requisite research and the res to upgrade the siege, it becomes mobile and can fold up for some time on the road.
There was also an idea that they can't shoot targets within a certain range that are too close. I like this idea. Even if Aliens drop a OC right next to it, it can't hit it. At least, unless the Comm wants to manually override and have it fire on it, but the splash would hit itself.
And interesting dynamic would be if it also hurt friendly structures with the splash. You might get more suicide Gorges dropping buildings among the MASC farms, hoping they destroy themselves, like Zerglings vs Siege tanks in StarCraft. A bit of a crazy idea, but thought I'd throw it out there.
BTW, I've tagged this into the Idea Map.
Therefore, it would be perfectly reasonable to have the MASC function similarly, dealing splash damage to all structures, friend or foe, near the target, and it would be up to the comm to make sure to deploy it somewhere it won't hurt itself with the blast wave. If he runs it right up to a chamber before deploying, that's his own fault.
Thanks for the Idea Map entry, I didn't really think about putting ideas for new stuff like the MASCs in it (mostly I was focused on a sort of 'recap') but it makes total sense.
OK, so deployment time or once it's deployed, it has to charge up. I'm cool with that.
So, another interesting throw in. What if the closer you were, the more damage it would do. Of course cap it so we don't have overflow, but what if there's a region where getting close to the Hive/building means more damage. Those sonic/sci-fi shots I'm sure dissipate over time (kinda the problem with building a lightsaber, not to mention having it end at a fixed distance), so it's logical. Plus there's a beautiful risk/reward where getting closer means not as easy to defend. Up to a point where you're spawn camping obviously, but closer usually means Aliens can get to you quicker, not to mention easier to find you when you're setting up.
what happens to the MASCS do they continue to their last waypoint and deploy(or not deploy) or do they just sit there, and maybe deploy.
When a rine gos afk or looses connection its not usually the end of the game but if youve invested X number of res in to the MASCs and sent your rines packing an afk or disconnection can ruin the game, and the more the comm is needed to control the AI units in the game the bigger the issue. The rines could get another comm in the chair with in 30 secs maybe less but that could be too late?
What will MASCS do when there is no comm in the chair
Manual override wouldn't be that bad if it goes that way. I just don't know if any form of offensive can live without a commander.
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What will MASCS do when there is no comm in the chair<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you really think its necessary to implement game mechanics to counter a commander losing his connection? That's just bad luck, you lose momentum and perhaps the round, whatever. It rarely happens anyway. I don't remember that ever ruining my day.
In any case... having the option of multiple commanders is safety enough.
Clearly you've never played in a finals match.
But it takes a whole hour to start finals match!
On the other hand, it probably will do what always happens when your comm leaves/is booted/loses connection. Someone suicides or runs back to base and jumps back in the bloody chair.
Also, the MASC will probably do whatever it was last told to do, so keep moving towards its waypoint or fire automatically at any Alien structure in the vicinity. I don't think the MASC will be baby-sat microed by the comm (at least I hope we don't have to), so it should be OK for a while.
EDIT: wording
o... m... g... So I was thinking that you wanted the game mechanics to account for the rare occasion that a commander could randomly lose his/her connection. I didn't know that you meant the even more rare occasion when a commander would lose his/her connection during a finals match.
So yeah this happened like one time to a guy that knows a friend of you cousin. And know you want the game designer to make sure next time it happens that a commander loses his/her connection during a finals match at the crucial moments before a siege that the marine team has a way to quickly react a take control of the Siege Cannon. Yes, this should be a priority for the devs. In fact they should form a team of 6 to 8 people to think up unlikely scenarios and measures for the teams to compensate.
Like say you got a lone marine in a vent next to waste while second hive is building and its a semifinals match being played out during mid-June and you want him to build a pg. You drop the pg and he start building it then all of a sudden his E key stops working because its so hot and the humidity stops working. He's the only JP in the team and pg he was building is not finished and you got a MS full of HA's ready to ninja pg through, but no PG. Now by the time you get another guy on a JP and get him to the same vent to finish the pg it might be to late because the second hive will be done and the fades will be able to take out all your HA's. So what do you say that we give the commader the ability to switch the places of two marines player so that the JP switches places with a HA guy from the base and the other guy can then finish the pg and yet another game has been saved, by clever game design, yay!
and then... omg I think not just write all that ******* ****... nm whatever
Radix is merely pointing out that for some, it can be a big deal. So, some basic fall back would be nice. We would rather that the pubs and the pro enjoy this game.
And let's face it, that's the whole reason, for those rare weird instances, that we have patches. To fix the random buggy exploits or when things for some previously unknown reason go wrong. We'd just rather have contingencies in place for the more easily fixable.
The 2nd commander can set the M.A.S.C. to follow Squad 1, so it'd follow any person in squad one, or he can send a waypoint with Idle, or deploy, so when it reaches the point it either goes idle, or deploys in arrival. The M.A.S.C. would be great little thingn to have following your squad. It should have a minimum range, making the squads have to cover it if a skulk does some uber evasion and gets close. It should be able to damage aliens but with much, much less damage since the seige round goes at such a high velocity when it hits a light target, it just rips through, meaning Hive recieves highest damage, onos recieves almost as much. The Support commander that controls the M.A.S.C. should have control over squads, supplies, bots, less important buildings like the simple Turret factory and turrets, the little things. If the Main Commander wishes to, he can go to a Tab in the build menu that shows Support Commander Abilites, and he can over right some of his stuff. Another Eject Vote button will be needed to be added to eject the support commander, maybe even another vote button to promote him to Main Commander and demote Main commander to Support. The M.A.S.C. should be able to deploy in a short 10-20 seconds with a 3 second charge on the first shot, its undeploy tim should be slightly shorter 7-15 seconds, making a quicker escape just incase, since the turret should have a light armor. It should move at almost a Marine run, not as slow as a walk, but not as fast as a run, and not imbetween either, closer to a run. That'll give a gorge a chance to pop shot it.
More ideas are swarming in my head.
This idea made me come up with another idea =) marine carried gun turret =D i'll search for another topic of it just incase =P
lol... if I could harness half the energy I generate by inadvertently offending people over the internet I could power Pittsburgh for the next 17 years.
I have so many ideas, even jupiter hollow cant hold them =) im an idea man outgame....aswell as a support man ingame.
Will this replace the stationary version of the seige Cannon?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
You should be able to ride on it but the Commander should be able to give it "Way Points" in order to make it move. Possible crush factor for enemies caught under it's treads.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->2) How fast should it move (relative to a marine's default run speed)?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I think it should be very slow and loud, probably 30% slower than a Marine.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->3) <i>Relative to other buildings, using examples such as the armory and infantry portal as a base</i>, what should the build times be to construct the masc? To deploy the masc at its destination?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
It'd should require an upgrade from the Prototype lab to be able to drop.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->4) What types of targets should it be able to attack? Just hives? All structures? Dynamic infestation? Eggs? Should there be splash damage against lifeforms, or should it simply nuke lifeforms?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
It should be like the Siege Cannons in game now, only able to damage structures. The Cannon's Area attack could destroy Infested areas. When the Cannon deploys to fire you should think of a Backhoe or mobile Crane when it deploys load arms. Slow, loud, and it would only be reliable as a weapon when the anchor arms are in place.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->5) If there are multiple commanders, should one commander be able to take over all micro-management of weldbots/siegetanks while watching the other comm's actions? How should this be handled?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
One Commander for the hole team.
HOLY SH**! One Month Necro!
Rideable by any life form.
2) How fast should it move (relative to a marine's default run speed)?
60% run speed
3) Relative to other buildings, using examples such as the armory and infantry portal as a base, what should the build times be to construct the masc? To deploy the masc at its destination?
Perhaps there should be another marine structure like a mini-factory that would produce the siege cannons and welder bots. This structure could also be used to construct other machines in future patches.
4) What types of targets should it be able to attack? Just hives? All structures? Dynamic infestation? Eggs? Should there be splash damage against lifeforms, or should it simply nuke lifeforms?
Same as NS1.
5) If there are multiple commanders, should one commander be able to take over all micro-management of weldbots/siegetanks while watching the other comm's actions? How should this be handled?
Pass on multiple commanders. If things get too hectic, just hire Koreans to be perma-commanders.
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Moved from the thread I made >.>
When I was watching the 4th video, two images kept running in my mind. The first was the siege tanks from StarCraft and their mobile/siege tank forms. The video touched on firing while mobile and a possible transformation from mobile mode to siege cannon mode. I didn't entirely grasp what the final decision was leaning towards, but I would think a transformation into siege mode would have been more appropriate.
The second image I kept having was from Ghost in the Shell, those tachikoma (I had to google it for spelling XD) machines. Moreso that they ride on balls rather than wheels or treads. I thought a similar design for the movement of the siege cannons would allow for easier maneuverability over wheels or treads. The balls can be redirected on a dime while wheels or treads would require a space to turn around or change direction in.
I'd love feedback and constructive criticism on these ideas. Thanks for your time reading this.
It would be cool if it had some other effect while it was rolling into place. I'm envisioning the siege tank being used to not only clear a room from range, but a mobile support structure for marines to use to get into infested rooms.
Perhaps it could shoot some sort of mild gas that slow does minor damage over time (lerk gas type of thing) that only effects aliens while it's in mobile mode?
This would definately get it more attention.. I remember many a game where the aliens were being told that siege were being setup, and they didn't react to it.
We rally 'round the MASC, with a pocket full of shells!
We got imaginary crush damage from a small moving turret causing the commander to mass produce bots just to run over enemies rather than tech.
We got a 2nd commander that has 1 job that could just as easily be the main commanders job (Ever heard of follow unit command?)
We got late tech siege cannons. Who needs siege cannons when you got mobile jetpack gernade launcher marines?
We got the nuke-like siege cannon that is an end all alien life forms in 1 shot...
We got riding the siege cannon... As if noobs dont do enough in the game... Now you give them a chance to sit nearly idle on a slow moving defenseless unit that can no-clip though things. Also ride-able by aliens...? wow...
Now for siege cannon production. I imagine it being slower than the marines to make it a strategic disadvantage, but I also would like to be able to research/build/drop siege cannons at the hive like the old style.
As for time... Make the turret factory AFTER the IP/Armory ... Rather than immediately (Not sure if *cough* one of you guys even realized this) A semigood team vs a bad map designed hive doesn't even need to spawn camp if they just get close... guard the openings and build siege even prior to lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=1686322:date=Aug 20 2008, 02:49 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Aug 20 2008, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not 100% where you're going with that. My envisionment would be to have a TF, upgrade it to Siege level, then the MAS can be dropped and built, but it starts deployed. Thus, it can function as a normal, stationary siege. However, if you have the requisite research and the res to upgrade the siege, it becomes mobile and can fold up for some time on the road.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that is the whole reason why the MASC was f-cking created... Not an end-all lifeforms in 1 shot, run them over (Because that's fun to program and glitchy as all hell in every game currently made...), ride-able noob-sitting-idle tank. It's so the commander doesn't have to recycle all his siege cannons at the hive to attack the next hive. In most NS1 games... Once the alien team lost their 2nd hive, unless another 2nd hive is dropped in a timely manner, the marines just pushed for the last hive and ended the game.
Though makes the 'wall of lame' ... basically a 'lame' idea now though... Moving siege cannons rather than building a tf, upgrading, and all that. Sure hope oc's are overpowered now and not taken down to just LMGs...