Unofficial Map Pack
StixNStonz
Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2006-11-06 Member: 58439Members, Reinforced - Shadow
**Update: Map Pack #1 released. Download found <a href="http://puzl.info/ns/Unofficial_Map_Pack_1.rar" target="_blank"><u>here</u></a>, or <a href="http://princess.yoclanmail.com/Unofficial_Map_Pack_1.rar" target="_blank"><u>here</u></a>.
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As i mentioned in <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103652" target="_blank"><u>this thread</u></a>, since the official map pack doesn't seem like it'll ever become a reality, i'm going to go ahead and create my own. The NS community could really benefit from an infusion of new (especially already available) content, so I'll take a week or two to look over the quality custom maps, and pack together the best.
The map pack will be split into two packs due to pending map updates, file size, and simplicity.
Map Pack 1:
---<u>ns_enceladus</u>: A nice, sprawling map with MS located in the middle of all 3 hives; has some very unique elements.
*Minimap fixed up.
---<u>ns_rust_1_3</u>: great map with a huge middle room. Lots of ambiance.
*Minimap fixed up.
---<u>ns_achio_v2b5</u>: Achio's come a long way and offers a ton of unique elements, along with some great design. Very solid space-station feel.
---<u>ns_rampage</u>: a classic custom map with great features.
*Minimap fixed up (thanks JazzX!)
---<u>ns_hulk_b3</u>: a sprawling map with stunning originality.
*Minimap fixed up.
Map Pack 2:
---<u>ns_nexus_v2</u>: A large map with a lot of vertical gameplay, a very original hive layout, a lot of detail, and an extensive vent system. Pending a new version with multiple updates.
---<u>ns_saturn_b4</u>: Very cool design which gives great visuals to support the feeling of a real, circular space station; novel design of double in the middle. Hopefully pending a new version with a siege fix.
---<u>ns_source_b34</u>: very nice map with great model work and a straightforward layout.
Ready to go, kept behind to fill out pack 2.
---<u>ns_titan_b2</u>: Very solid, never-seen-before map. Pending new version with small bugfixes.
Cut:
---ns_oasis.
Map Pack 1 will be released shortly, while Map Pack 2 is pending.
**************************
As i mentioned in <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103652" target="_blank"><u>this thread</u></a>, since the official map pack doesn't seem like it'll ever become a reality, i'm going to go ahead and create my own. The NS community could really benefit from an infusion of new (especially already available) content, so I'll take a week or two to look over the quality custom maps, and pack together the best.
The map pack will be split into two packs due to pending map updates, file size, and simplicity.
Map Pack 1:
---<u>ns_enceladus</u>: A nice, sprawling map with MS located in the middle of all 3 hives; has some very unique elements.
*Minimap fixed up.
---<u>ns_rust_1_3</u>: great map with a huge middle room. Lots of ambiance.
*Minimap fixed up.
---<u>ns_achio_v2b5</u>: Achio's come a long way and offers a ton of unique elements, along with some great design. Very solid space-station feel.
---<u>ns_rampage</u>: a classic custom map with great features.
*Minimap fixed up (thanks JazzX!)
---<u>ns_hulk_b3</u>: a sprawling map with stunning originality.
*Minimap fixed up.
Map Pack 2:
---<u>ns_nexus_v2</u>: A large map with a lot of vertical gameplay, a very original hive layout, a lot of detail, and an extensive vent system. Pending a new version with multiple updates.
---<u>ns_saturn_b4</u>: Very cool design which gives great visuals to support the feeling of a real, circular space station; novel design of double in the middle. Hopefully pending a new version with a siege fix.
---<u>ns_source_b34</u>: very nice map with great model work and a straightforward layout.
Ready to go, kept behind to fill out pack 2.
---<u>ns_titan_b2</u>: Very solid, never-seen-before map. Pending new version with small bugfixes.
Cut:
---ns_oasis.
Map Pack 1 will be released shortly, while Map Pack 2 is pending.
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85956" target="_blank">ns_source</a> (Lt_Gravity)
<a href="http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/17422" target="_blank">ns_hulk</a> (Rendy_CZech)
<a href="http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/34975" target="_blank">ns_takeback</a> (Greedo386; creator of ns_lost)
Also, worth checking these out to see if any of them ever released:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94493" target="_blank">ns_foray</a>
(I will add to this list)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats the tentative list for now. I do not want to include Siege or Co maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->They're not all bad.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92016" target="_blank">ns_siege_generator</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92945" target="_blank">ns_stormsiege</a>
I've lost faith with the mappack, but if you can handle this, it's ok. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Hmm, I'm receiving tons of feedback on ns_forgotten right now, I just need to fix troubles, like ultra-unbalanced Sewage Tunnel, unbalanced Pumping Station and horrible vent system. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
v2b5? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Also good idea, I think you could host it at bry's file server. however I would send an email if a file of this size is allowed ^_^
I'll also look into some suggestions for maps as well (If I have time, someone gone done stole my bucket o'time again)
Shacky, you should really consider fixing up Bliss like we recommended. Seriously, if you just out out a small number of rooms, and scaled down certain hallways and added cover etc, you could make a great map out of it. If you've totally given up on it, no worries. But if you're willing to put in a few solid hours to fix it up, i'd be willing to give some suggestions (probably in painted-minimap format).
NS_Source i remember being pretty cool when i checked it out quickly, so I'll do so again. Same with Hulk, but Takeback, from what i remember, needed a pretty significant amount of work to be fully up to par, at least imo. I'll check it out again as well. And ns_foray, never heard of it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Another thats come to mind is Maximus' Equinox. I only checked it out quickly before, but it struck me as a pretty solid map, so i'll give it a better runthrough again.
And just because I'm getting this map pack together doesn't mean I'm some map nazi. Keep suggesting maps and reviewing others if you want. Constructive criticism for potential maps is especially good; there's nothing stopping us from fixing up any almost-great map before we release this (assuming the mapper still has the source <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />).
Even myself, I'll probably be releasing a new version of Nexus with this. We'll see if that comes to fruition though.
Well, i'm tempted to say this is a good initiative but, i'm not sure. Let me explain. First of all, this is gonna be a lot of work and you'll run into some problems. I think this is why the "official mappack" never saw the day, no one did want to pick up the task/burden. People like you, or me, put a lot of work in our maps, so this is a delicate subject... In my opinion, this is something that has to be done by someone "neutral", and/or possibly with a voting system. If not, well, i'll just give some examples;
<!--quoteo(post=1667831:date=Jan 18 2008, 10:23 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jan 18 2008, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns_nexus_v2: Yes its mine, but its not like its lacking in quality<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offense intended, but i think otherwise. But don't get me wrong. To keep it short, i like a round or two on ns_nexus but i think the very (too much?) ambitious layout leads to major problems, especially for "competitive play". Again, please don't take this as a personal "attack", cause it's not. I'd throw away a lot of the other maps that have been suggested as well, it's just an example.
<!--quoteo(post=1667831:date=Jan 18 2008, 10:23 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jan 18 2008, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not want to include Siege or Co maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1667912:date=Jan 20 2008, 06:08 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jan 20 2008, 06:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And just because I'm getting this map pack together doesn't mean I'm some map nazi.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hummm... another problem <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Kinda contradictory. My point is, who are you to judge what goes in and what doesn't? Maybe rename this to "StixNStonz's <i>Classic</i> custom map pack", then. Even if i don't play combat personally, the game mode is there, it's official, and a lot of people seems to enjoy it. And yes, honestly, the fact that my map is co_ has to do with this post, i won't deny that. It's almost the same with some polished siege maps, bar the fact that it isn't even an official game mode.
If it's <i>your</i> mappack, fine, you do whatever you want with it, but you're risking to make some people very disappointed and/or even angry. If the maps are selected by personal taste of one individual, we'll end up with 36 different map packs cause everyone is gonna make one, including it's own map, of course... <b>If</b> i'd be a server operator, i'd rather select the maps one by one, which would make the point of a map pack, well, pointless! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
This is in no way to discourage you from getting this done, but the way i see a good map pack is just different.
- Making sure the source is still available & the more the mapper is still active, the better (so problems can be fixed)
- Map is polished, in term of aesthetics, layout, and gameplay
- Map follows the "official mapping guidelines"
- As stated above, maps are selected by someone neutral (aka; not an applicant), or even better, multiple "judges"
- Possibly include some sort of non-abusable voting system (so mappers can still vote for their own map(s))
- Playtest the maps... This would mean we'd need a server and well, playtesters...
- Etc.
There is more, but hopefully you got my point. By following those "rules", we could end up with a top-notch map pack, which we could even submit to the devs. And with their permission, release it as an "<i>official</i> map pack"... Y' know, with a news on the front page, and on major websites such as planethalflife.com, etc. Which could literally <i>revive</i> NS btw...
- creating all the types of minimaps (transparant and labelled transparant) for the chosen maps
- max number of maps for the pack
- talking about source files for maps, this should also include custom textures (wads/psd's//sky textures?)
And we need at least 4-6 judges of course <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Perhaps a seperate<b> combat </b>and<b> classic </b>map pack <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Don't worry Droggog, there's been far less formal criticisms about Nexus <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. I'm not some random newbie mapper who is throwing in his empty siege map with great maps. I know that Nexus is not for everyone, and some people downright hate it. That's fine.
I find that those same people downright hate Shiva and Machina too; both are more complex maps (and both are new <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). Then there are the ton of people who absolutely love Shiva and Machina, like myself. When I set out to build the (as you agree) ambitious Nexus, these were maps that I looked to as inspiration. I wanted a *very serious* map. And a lot of people have claimed it to be their absolute favourite NS map, or 2nd only to Machina.
People enjoy different things. But its undeniable that a lot of people already think Nexus should be official. Just because many others dont think it should have the time of day (and same with Shiva and Machina), and also just because I'm setting up this map pack (which I've already proclaimed to be unofficial), doesn't mean I shouldn't add it in.
As for the setting up of judges and all this, I respectfully decline the suggestion <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. An official map pack was announced as in the works on <i>February 7th, 2007</i>, which is a year minus 2 weeks ago. Without a peep since. I'm now setting up this map pack with quality, efficiency and speed in mind. I'm going to look at every classic map I have (and that has been suggested), and put in each that I believe is worthy of regular rotational play on servers.
If you need either I have at least one of each. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I think as someone already mentioned there may be a flood of map packs created if an official one isn't, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do think at least one additional map pack needs to be released (official or not) just to get more maps (that don't suck) into regular rotation (hopefully).
If a map technically works well (which is what those objective characteristics point to), and seems to work well gameplay-wise (which I attribute to the 'feel', which includes other subjective attributes, such as variation in rooms and halls, close-quarters and long, vent placement, hiding spots), then it basically passes the test. On top of that I want some amount of artistic originality. Pretty much all the ones on the list so far fit that criteria.
It makes sense to try to focus just on classic. But instead why not assign slots so you can skim the very cream of the crop for the mappack?
E.g. you could have the following: 8 x Classic maps, 5 x Combat maps, 2 x Siege maps, and just choose the top 8 unofficial Classic maps, etc.
Then again, this is a lot of maps to screen, and there's nothing stopping you from releasing more than one mappack. Instead it might make more sense to change the slots to: 5 x Classic maps, 3 x Combat maps, 1 x Siege maps. Anything that doesn't make it into this mappack can be considered for the next mappack, but at least this way you have a smaller, more achievable goal with less people to contact, less maps to test, less sources to secure and a clearer standard of quality to look for.
Ns_Enceladus' minimaps are cleaned up, coloured, and labeled, with transparencies. Gotta do Rust next.
Ns_Source crashes on me; ns_Foray has no download links and sounds like it was never even close to finished; ns_hulk crashes on me after 5 seconds; and even Hydrosity crashes, saying im missing the WAD. Anyone got any links I should be using?
Oh, and Equinox was definitely not the map I was thinking of, thats off the list.
I checked out ns_fenris as well, but godDAMN, there's some crazy s*** going on there. Two doubles, both right next to MS? Twelve nodes? One of the hives has no RTs anywhere near it? How was this supposedly a few peoples' fav map?
By the way, the names are still including version numbers.
By the way, the names are still including version numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think thats what mappers call "not completely finished".
Adam
Has anyone given ns_saturn a play on a full server? It doesn't look 100% balanced, but it might be fixable and it was released quite recently.
Has anyone given ns_saturn a play on a full server? It doesn't look 100% balanced, but it might be fixable and it was released quite recently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, CustomFactor has played it 12v12 a few times, rather balanced, however it needs more cover for early skulks, and a better way to get out of the ducts next to the top hive.
In my opinion, you should take a look at ns_mazion and ns_prometheus.
The first is a eclipse-ish map with a complex layout and great visuals. Plus a funny ready room. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45884&hl=ns_mazion" target="_blank">Map Thread</a>
The second is, I think, pretty well-known. I had the chance to test it on various servers, and it's actually a pretty well made map.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97567&hl=ns_prometheus" target="_blank">Map Thread</a>
Oh, and ns_marineris too, great map with an awesome atmosphere! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/downloads/files/index.php?dir=natural-selection/maps/ns/&file=ns_marineris.zip" target="_blank">Download from Bry's</a>
I'm reluctant to add in Prometheus. It was added in 3.2 Beta (i think thats the one), but was removed in the 3.2 final. We posted asking about it, but the devs seemed pretty vague about why exactly. Wouldn't be right to toss it in here... and I did really like Prom.
Marineris i've played a bunch of times, and while it can be fun, i remember it having a ton of issues. I think the main one was the exits from MS... both were very long and very alien-friendly, from what i remember. The rest of the map was fairly good but had a lot of bugs. I'll check it out again, but I doubt it'll be added in.
The tentative release date is <u><b>February 7th</u></b>, on the 1 year anniversary of the devs announcing the official map pack <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I did a full run-through of <u>ns_hulk_b3</u>, and WOW. Unbelievable map. This map wins the Ambience Award; it literally made me giddy. Its a tad large, and holds its 11 nodes well. Hulk is definitely getting added in. I'll have to clean up and label the minimaps for Hulk, but I think they'll really help the map.
**Note. I've had a few crashes on this map. It seems to be right at the beginning of the map, but under odd circumstances. It may be a memory error, as it was fine before but then crashed when i had Photoshop open. Can anyone help with this issue?**
Did a full run-through of <u>ns_source_b34</u> as well, and am very impressed. Great use of models, sounds, everything. Great straightforward layout. A definite addition. But again, this is another map that i'll have to do the minimaps for.
I tested out <u>ns_next</u>, which i remembered fondly from ages ago. But 7 nodes doesnt cut it.
Checked out <u>ns_delta</u>. I enjoy playing this map on the occasion, but now that I'm looking at it critically, the top hive is at too much of a disadvatage. MS is located in the middle of the map, and two hives are at the bottom. Cut.
Played <u>ns_power</u>, but overall it didnt leave a great impression. Not the best flow to the layout, hives with one entrance, etc.
<u>Ns_thorstation</u> is a decent map, and has a few really nice features, but parts felt simply empty, and it had a bit of overuse of 'pits of doom'. Some spots of really nice layouts. Didn't make the cut, but came close.
I tested out <u>ns_mystic</u>, which is a map i actually really liked, but within a minute i found a critical bug. The ladder heading towards MS in Thermo is bugged; it throws you right across the room. This is a pretty critical route for any grounded player trying to get to MS.
I contacted the mapper, blueman, and am awaiting his reply. If there is none, it wont make the cut. It would be a shame though, because its a solid map, and such an easy error to fix.
I did a full review of <u>ns_forgotten_b2</u> and posted my findings. There are some glaring problems and a few subtle ones, but hopefully Shacky can get everything fixed up in time for the map pack.
Also, the Rust minimaps are done, so scratch that off the list. We're right on track for the Feb 7th release.
It may be that some of the maps don't play perfectly for Classic, but as you must know from YO not all maps are used exclusively for Classic mode (the European 'YO Clan' community have 'reg nights' for their lonstanding members where they play undisclosed game modes like 'Hide and Seek' and 'British Bulldogs').
The point is it's all about choice. The option is there to play something different and it's presented with a variety of maps in a handy single download. If you don't want to try new maps to see if they're worth playing that's your choice, but there are plenty who will value having more choice.